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VikingSkull posted:I've never said they are a magic bullet, all I've ever said is that ideally the series would be 60% ovals to reflect their home markets national preference people are just going to watch NASCAR ovals instead. trying to compete head-to-head at this stage is a death sentence.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:22
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but Indy races on ovals now and they are the highest rated broadcasts historically 
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Mar 16, 2016 15:26
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VikingSkull posted:but Indy races on ovals now and they are the highest rated broadcasts historically the finale in sonoma last year got nearly four times as many viewers as fontana the year prior. the second highest NBCSN broadcast in 2015 was tape-delayed coverage of mid-ohio.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:34
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I said historically, not 2015 and yes I know networks etc if they find small growth in the road racing community, and they are fine with it and you guys are fine with it, cool deal  but it's really sad that some of you assume I'm 100% clueless about racing in the US, I was born into dirt track racing, I've worked a crew at one of the biggest dirt races in the US and I know my poo poo there's an untapped market that Indy isn't serving. they can if they want, if they don't want to, that's fine too.... all I suggest is a potential way they could serve it if they are interested
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Mar 16, 2016 15:42
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i don't think you're clueless. i think you know too much for your own good. and i think you're too focused on your nostalgia for The Way Things Were instead of what needs to be done to make indycar a success today.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:46
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Indycar is successful today, they are growing, no? What makes you think I think they aren't on a path to success? Like I said, if this is the path they want, awesome. They could go a different direction if they want and find more success, that's all I'm saying. I talk to young modified guys today, and a full half of them want to make it to Indy, not Daytona. Also if I can be morbid a bit, can I point out that the last race of 2015 and the second race of the 2001 NASCAR season both had phenomenal ratings?
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Mar 16, 2016 15:50
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VikingSkull posted:I talk to young modified guys today, and a full half of them want to make it to Indy, not Daytona. Then they need to get their rear end out of that swamp hole you call a track and get in a real car. Goddamn.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:33
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be nice wicka posted:fairly certain CART's collapse had more to do with not having the one race on the calendar that actually matters There was more to it than that. The series was fine financially/popularity wise until about 2000 or so. That being said, this series resembles CART more than ever now.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:37
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CART died the second Montoya took the checkered at the 500 in 2000 and showed that CART's best could loving moonwalk all over the IRL regulars. At that point it just took a little bit of sponsor pressure to realize that the other 15 or whatever races each series ran were completely irrelevant(just like today!) and the only one that mattered was in May.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:49
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Peanut President posted:Then they need to get their rear end out of that swamp hole you call a track and get in a real car. Goddamn. http://autoweek.com/article/nascar/15-year-old-tyler-dippel-chevrolet-win-nascar-kn-east-race-mobile
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Mar 16, 2016 16:54
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VikingSkull posted:http://autoweek.com/article/nascar/15-year-old-tyler-dippel-chevrolet-win-nascar-kn-east-race-mobile Wants to win in Indycars, runs NASCAR. mhmm
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Mar 16, 2016 17:04
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"The top-level racing category in the country is rear-engined cars with wings & slicks which runs on different sized ovals & road courses. Let's ensure a steady stream of drivers going to the top category by mandating that all our lower categories are front-engined, do not have wings & run on mostly half-mile pavement & dirt ovals. Surely nothing will go wrong!" - some goddamn idiots at USAC, circa mid-70's
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Mar 16, 2016 17:07
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Well, it's not often that the stars align where you have the talent and backing to move up, plus it's just easier to go from mods to stock cars because they run hard clay and weigh similar, with similar power. Stewart Freisen, however, is crossing over to Outlaws because he's more on the open wheel spectrum. Historically, OCFS has been home to eventual national level talent at a far higher rate than most tracks. e- also I agree that banning rear engine sprinters and supermods in the 1970's was dumb
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Mar 16, 2016 17:10
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Human Grand Prix posted:There was more to it than that. The series was fine financially/popularity wise until about 2000 or so. that was like, four years after the split. so it existed for four years before the lack of the 500 caught up to them. it's not bad that this series resembles CART, because CART immediately pre-split was great. resembling that would be amazing.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:25
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dsriggs posted:"The top-level racing category in the country is rear-engined cars with wings & slicks which runs on different sized ovals & road courses. Let's ensure a steady stream of drivers going to the top category by mandating that all our lower categories are front-engined, do not have wings & run on mostly half-mile pavement & dirt ovals. Surely nothing will go wrong!" Are you seriously advocating for Silver Crown cars to run at Fontana?
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Mar 16, 2016 17:53
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Oval races are good and fun, but not enough people go to them when Indycar runs. And if the argument is a Catch-22 of 'oval fans dont care cause you dont run enough of them', then its never going to happen because the series doesn't have the money to bankroll empty races so its kinda irrelevant. This year alone, we lost 1 oval with an unmatched IndyCar history in Milwaukee and 1 with a strong IndyCar history in Fontana because not enough people showed up. Although Fontana the schedule most definitely hosed. Anyway, if Phoenix has a good turn out this year and next year, maybe ISC looks at paying IndyCar for more races. If not? The oval count probably keeps goin down.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:58
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working with ISC is the only way Indy races on ovals without their own investmentPeanut President posted:Are you seriously advocating for Silver Crown cars to run at Fontana? the whole "sprint guys run small dirt tracks" argument is dumb anyway because two of the best road racers in recent American history are Tony and Gordon Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 18:04
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Cygni posted:Oval races are good and fun, but not enough people go to them when Indycar runs. And if the argument is a Catch-22 of 'oval fans dont care cause you dont run enough of them', then its never going to happen because the series doesn't have the money to bankroll empty races so its kinda irrelevant. milwaukee needs to come back as soon as humanly possible
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Mar 16, 2016 18:28
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Peanut President posted:Are you seriously advocating for Silver Crown cars to run at Fontana? I'm advocating Silver Crowns to not be completely different to the division they're supposed to be a stepping stone towards. Basically, rear-engined 360 Chevys with wings & independent suspension on pavement miles & at least one road course, pls.
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Mar 16, 2016 18:41
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http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/127167-robin-miller-s-mailbag-for-march-16-presented-by-honda-racing-hpd?showall=1&limitstart= The only choice nugget from Robin's mailbag is that Mark Miles is working on trying to get some races next year on NBC.
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Mar 16, 2016 18:45
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Points from the ongoing phone conference regarding Will's incident last weekend
KingShibby fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 19:08
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Here's the thing and the dirty little secret about American Championship Car Racing. Outside of the Indy 500? It has never had a consistent national following and any events to even remotely match the "500" in terms of ratings or prestige. NASCAR? Has and always has had that sort of national following. The ratings for CART and the IRL were always historically miserable when compared to Cup. (again, save for the "500") It is indeed irrelevant where they race at this point because the IndyCar Series fanbase is very much niche.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:21
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Bentai posted:http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/127167-robin-miller-s-mailbag-for-march-16-presented-by-honda-racing-hpd?showall=1&limitstart= The other thing I saw in there (that was terribly disappointing) was that it sounds like Milwaukee is being slowly dismantled. It's nearby and I only went once, so it's my fault 
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Mar 16, 2016 19:43
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They took the stands down a few days ago.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:56
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Dixon was the fastest at Barber.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:10
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FuzzySkinner posted:
Citation needed. Pretty sure NASCAR used to be confined to the south.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:23
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Peanut President posted:Are you seriously advocating for Silver Crown cars to run at Fontana? Insert quad-oval in the tri-oval infield, problem solved.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:32
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drgitlin posted:Citation needed. Pretty sure NASCAR used to be confined to the south. Will have to find it from my bud on twitter who has the stats on it. Wisconsin, Indiana, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and New England all had stock car scenes. Guys like Bodine, Kulwicki and Richmond predate guys like Jeff Gordon in terms of coming into the sport. Daytona, Talladega, World 600 and Darlington were big events for not just stock car fans, but racing fans alike. Lot of the USAC (now Indy) talent would show up at Daytona and Talladega for example. ESPN, Turner Sports, CBS and ABC also really helped them reach a national audience. Said national audience became loyal, reliable fans that would tune in on a weekly basis. It's not just an "oval" thing, it's more so how NASCAR and it's partners were infinitely more better at promoting the sport from a week to week basis versus CART/USAC/IRL.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:35
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what about CART in the early 90s? i don't think the reigning F1 champion was attracted by a series that was the 500 and little else
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Mar 16, 2016 20:42
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be nice wicka posted:what about CART in the early 90s? i don't think the reigning F1 champion was attracted by a series that was the 500 and little else Emmo winning in 89 made the "500" a global event, and thus made the series popular globally in that regard. Also the '92 "finish" was a pop culture foot note at the time.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:48
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FuzzySkinner posted:Will have to find it from my bud on twitter who has the stats on it. Can't speak for the others but Pennsylvania is a stronghold for sprint cars. Pocono was designed with Indycar's in mind and Langhorne was a classic USAC track. Not saying stock cars aren't popular here, but open wheel has firm roots.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:54
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be nice wicka posted:what about CART in the early 90s? i don't think the reigning F1 champion was attracted by a series that was the 500 and little else It should be noted too that even in the CART/Indycar heyday oval attendance had started to drop relative to street circuits.
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Mar 16, 2016 21:00
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People don't want to spend all weekend driving to bumfuck nowhere to see indycars on an oval. However, people from bumfuck nowhere will drive into the city to see street races.
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Mar 16, 2016 23:42
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George Zimmer posted:Can't speak for the others but Pennsylvania is a stronghold for sprint cars. Pocono was designed with Indycar's in mind and Langhorne was a classic USAC track. Not saying stock cars aren't popular here, but open wheel has firm roots. Langhorne, Reading and Nazareth are all old modified tracks that hosted NASCAR events.
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Mar 17, 2016 01:14
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Uncle Jam posted:People don't want to spend all weekend driving to bumfuck nowhere to see indycars on an oval. However, people from bumfuck nowhere will drive into the city to see street races. this kind of makes sense given the propensity for suburbanites to flood into downtown pittsburgh and take all the god drat street parking just because there's a god drat skating rink there but really ovals are such a better IRL viewing experience than circuits, in my opinion
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Mar 17, 2016 01:20
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My personal happy place for IndyCar watching is the T1 stands at Long Beach. But I've never been to Indy on raceday...
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Mar 17, 2016 01:54
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Cygni posted:My personal happy place for IndyCar watching is the T1 stands at Long Beach. It's all about being under the King Taco bridge, son.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:10
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The bottom line with American Championship Car Racing is that unlike Cup or F1? They never found a way to solely organize themselves into one faction and have one "unifying" voice ever since Tony Hulman died. That is...until 2008. Now to be fair? CART did a fantastic job with promoting and sanctioning the series events outside of the Indy 500, and IMS/USAC did a very good job promoting the "500" itself to a national audience. But I don't know, for whatever reason, the Ovals that were very popular during the USAC days? (Langhorne, Trenton, Ontario, Texas World, etc) all began to not exist after 1981 or so. Not to mention Atlanta failing and CART owners getting pissed off at Doc Mattoli for not upgrading the track at Pocono. On the flipside, events like Mid Ohio, Cleveland, Portland, Road America, Laguna Seca, Toronto and Vancouver all seemed to have staying power well over 20 years or so. Also taking over former F1 events in the form of Long Beach and Belle Isle have also proved to have staying power for CART/IRL/ICS for whatever reason. Hell it's STILL happening with circuits like Barber, and St. Pete. It can also be argued that the lack of ovals on the schedule? Is not from a lack of trying in the past. Think of all the SMI ovals that the IRL used to go. Think of how Pikes Peak, Nashville and Gateway are just empty right now. CART was responsible for having Homestead, Fontana, Nazareth (rebuilt that is), Rockingham (UK), Eurospeedway, Twin Ring Motegi and Rio all on the schedule to show case  oval racing...yet none of them are hosting IndyCar for what ever reason.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:23
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VikingSkull posted:Langhorne, Reading and Nazareth are all old modified tracks that hosted NASCAR events. Shame on me for forgetting Nazareth.
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Mar 17, 2016 02:39
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be nice wicka posted:this kind of makes sense given the propensity for suburbanites to flood into downtown pittsburgh and take all the god drat street parking just because there's a god drat skating rink there but really ovals are such a better IRL viewing experience than circuits, in my opinion I like to watch ovals too and you can see more live (grandstand 2 at belle isle has so many jersey barriers around kinks that you can see 100ft of actual pavement) but when like 15k people show up they're going to go under.
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Mar 17, 2016 04:58
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