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Nessus posted:Isn't it because Noam Chomsky said some vaguely positive things about Pol Pot before it became clear that he was transitioning Cambodia to a skull-based economy? Which is of course completely different from all the cautiously laudatory articles about Hitler in the mid-thirties because Which is different from pro-Hitler stuff because most people have transitioned away from that. Also, I doubt Chomsky's confusion here was required for the right to focus on arguably the only regime to maybe give Hitler a run for his money in the "worst thing ever" department, which also happens to be nominally communist.
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Mar 18, 2016 00:45
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Cingulate posted:While not doubting your general point, is it established that were their motives? I assume after the Vietnam war, the Vietnamese had all kinds of other problems at hand than being altruistic, and I could much rather imagine they were simply fighting back against Khmer provocation. It's easy to reasonably doubt the Vietnamese motive in terms of altruism, but as Vietnam was at that point recovering from being part of 'French Indochina' they had a legitimate worry about the idea of the (previously French Indochina) Khmer intending to genocide ethnic Vietnamese in their desire for nationalist (pronounced: ethnic) supremacy. At the same time, I think it's not unreasonable to see even the war-crime-committing Viet Minh baulking at the cruelty of the Khmer Rouge. Think of it much like the Allies in WW2 attacking the Axis on a treaty basis only to find that the Axis were doing much, MUCH worse than mere sovereignty disrespect.
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Mar 18, 2016 01:25
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Cingulate posted:Chomsky said some insanely pro-Khmer things, and has never unambiguously transitioned away from that. Okay Sam, good point, now go play with your new bike.
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Mar 18, 2016 02:33
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Tesseraction posted:It's easy to reasonably doubt the Vietnamese motive in terms of altruism, but as Vietnam was at that point recovering from being part of 'French Indochina' they had a legitimate worry about the idea of the (previously French Indochina) Khmer intending to genocide ethnic Vietnamese in their desire for nationalist (pronounced: ethnic) supremacy.
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Mar 18, 2016 03:14
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The Vosgian Beast posted:People can bitch as much as they want about millennials who don't want to work, but it's a proven fact that people will work harder with a gun in their back for a bowl of rice a day. They get things done.
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Mar 18, 2016 08:39
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Nessus posted:My understanding was I'm really not particularly informed on this issue, but I think the historical facts suggest Vietnam acted mostly in self defense; the Khmer Rogue had launched an invasion of Vietnam in 1978, killing thousands of Vietnamese. I don't think you need to consider altruism as a motive for attacking the Khmer Rogue right after you've been invaded by the Khmer Rogue. I don't say this from any sort of political agenda, particularly not in trying to discredit the evil commies or whatever. It just runs counter to my intuitions that after you've just suffered massacres and napalm bombings and mine campaigns and what have you by the mightiest military on the planet, a costly campaign in a different, non-threatening country that'a actually gonna gently caress up your standings with China is not high on the menu if the only reason is humanitarian concern. Actually, it seems simply by not being in favor of the Khmer Rogue, the Vietnam leadership showed better judgement than basically the rest of the world, including the UN, who actually protested the Vietnamese efforts to get rid of the Khmer Rogue. I wouldn't even fault Chomsky much for being fooled by Khmer propaganda back in 1975 - I just think that since then, he should have arrived at a less confused stance on the issue. But looking back, during these years, it must have been terribly hard to figure out who were the good guys - or at least, who were the unambiguously worst guys ever - to basically anyone. I'm not sure there's a lesson to be learned for or about neoreactionaries from the Khmer Rogue. They're a terrifying thing that emerged from an extremely confusing situation. Sure, they had a nominally marxist ideology and they were supported by some delusional leftists in the west - although, really, what opinions do you expect people to form when usually, "the US bombed some poor people and now everything is worse than before and the locals trying to shoot back at the US invasion are probably not as wrong as they're made out to be" is a reasonably good prior? And on the other hand, the US were crucially important for the Khmer Rogue coming into power. It's not that US foreign policy was the primary, or sufficient, cause for the Killing Fields, but they were a necessary condition; without US intervention, the Khmer would not have happened. And being a necessary condition for the Killing Fields should give you pause, even if they were somehow marxist-aligned; it's still something you would rather want to gloss over. The only one I really see winning a point here are strict US non-interventionists. The Vosgian Beast posted:Okay Sam, good point, now go play with your new bike. 
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Mar 18, 2016 11:28
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Cingulate posted:While not doubting your general point, is it established that were their motives? I assume after the Vietnam war, the Vietnamese had all kinds of other problems at hand than being altruistic, and I could much rather imagine they were simply fighting back against Khmer provocation. I too understood that the "genocidal tyrant" bit was considered a bit of a problem, but that the main reason was that Kampuchea kept prodding at Vietnam in various ways, and Vietnam finally got conclusively tired of their poo poo.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:28
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divabot posted:I too understood that the "genocidal tyrant" bit was considered a bit of a problem, but that the main reason was that Kampuchea kept prodding at Vietnam in various ways, and Vietnam finally got conclusively tired of their poo poo. I think it's a bit more tasteful to not file any Khmer Rogue action under "kampuchea", considering nothing worse has happened to any nation post WW2 than Pol Pot here.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:56
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Khmer ROUGE, goddamnit! 
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Mar 19, 2016 00:33
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Woolie Wool posted:Khmer ROUGE, goddamnit! More like Khum'er Rouge, right?  Hnnnnnnnnng!
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Mar 19, 2016 01:02
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Dreddout posted:More like Khum'er Rouge, right? Somehow the boobs are grosser looking than the stomach and I can't quite put my finger one why.
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Mar 19, 2016 01:13
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Dreddout posted:More like Khum'er Rouge, right? I hate you.
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Mar 19, 2016 01:14
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Who What Now posted:Somehow the boobs are grosser looking than the stomach and I can't quite put my finger one why. Woolie Wool posted:I hate you. Somebody's got to add a bit of humor to the thread talking about atrocities, right? : If we stay on this derail I might be forced to post more... 
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Mar 19, 2016 01:33
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Cingulate posted:Khmer Rogue My favorite DnD prestige class. It gets a really devastating backstab bonus against Cambodians.
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Mar 19, 2016 03:24
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Hate Fibration posted:My favorite DnD prestige class. It gets a really devastating backstab bonus against Cambodians. Have you seen their "Killing Field" mechanic, though? You get huge buffs and you can declare it practically anywhere. It is such broken bullshit, I won't let them anywhere near my campaigns
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Mar 19, 2016 03:46
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Who is the chaotic neutral in this alignment?
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Mar 19, 2016 03:51
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Tesseraction posted:Who is the chaotic neutral in this alignment?
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Mar 19, 2016 04:08
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coyo7e posted:probably the pregnant hedgehog That's Rouge, who is a bat. And she's just being stuffed with food. Also gently caress you for making me type that. You're the lawful evil in this terrible situation.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:15
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I would joke about the guy who made an alignment chart for goons, but I forget who that was
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Mar 19, 2016 04:43
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I was actually referencing said doofus - https://forums.somethingawful.com/dictionary.php?act=3&topicid=2450 He's now permabanned for being a giant poop licker.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:47
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Tesseraction posted:I was actually referencing said doofus - https://forums.somethingawful.com/dictionary.php?act=3&topicid=2450 I remember those avatars 
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Mar 19, 2016 04:51
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eschaton posted:They get things done.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:54
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Tesseraction posted:That's Rouge, who is a bat. And she's just being stuffed with food. Naw, definitely Neutral Evil.. Just like the monk I made which pissed off my DM so bad that he killed me off while I had the flu - my cowardly lvl 4 bully reef pirate monk who picked on peasants, apparently started a fatal fight with a level 12 paladin while I wasn't around. That was probably the most ridiculous pile of passive nerds I ever met, and I'm proud to have trolled the DM to that point when I convinced everybody to leave his literal re-draw of Hidden Leaf Village (then I was killed off two weeks later). Possibly even a better trolling moment than the time I made my guildmaster break down and cry and then ragequit world of warcraft, mid-raid. If only I could make my DM go to the white house and bitch about his twitter being banned http://uproxx.com/news/breitbart-milo-yiannopoulos-twitter-verification-issues-white-house/
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Mar 19, 2016 06:33
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Moldbug wrote a blogpost about the very existence of chaotic good as an alignment, because that's a thing Serious Political Thinkers do http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/05/what-if-theres-no-such-thing-as-chaotic.html
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Mar 19, 2016 14:27
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Tesseraction posted:I was actually referencing said doofus - https://forums.somethingawful.com/dictionary.php?act=3&topicid=2450 wow this part of the site is a no-man's land, huh
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Mar 19, 2016 14:33
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Well, I just finished reading this thread from the very beginning, and I have exactly one question: who is this St_Rev guy? I've noticed his tweets get posted a lot but I don't understand why, because I've never seen him referenced anywhere else other than this thread.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:11
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Loeb CL posted:Well, I just finished reading this thread from the very beginning, and I have exactly one question: who is this St_Rev guy? I've noticed his tweets get posted a lot but I don't understand why, because I've never seen him referenced anywhere else other than this thread. that's because all of these people are irrelevant
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Mar 19, 2016 16:29
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Yikes, the edginess!
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Mar 19, 2016 17:38
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Tesseraction posted:Yikes, the edginess! You better believe it. Those hard-nosed, subversive truth-tellers of   reality bombs they keep hitting us stupid liberal moonbat sheeple with
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Mar 19, 2016 17:58
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coyo7e posted:Naw, definitely Neutral Evil.. Just like the monk I made which pissed off my DM so bad that he killed me off while I had the flu - my cowardly lvl 4 bully reef pirate monk who picked on peasants, apparently started a fatal fight with a level 12 paladin while I wasn't around. I dunno what to say about this post but I must comment on it. nerd
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Mar 19, 2016 18:36
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Tesseraction posted:Yikes, the edginess! The fucks who go on about poo poo like that splintered off of SA and have their own lovely off-site forum where all they talk about is SA mods and drama. It's really quite pathetic. Except for the ones who're still here on the gbs.
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Mar 19, 2016 19:23
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Why do we still have gbs? Or is it the containment board akin to /b/?
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Mar 19, 2016 20:02
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Annointed posted:Why do we still have gbs? Or is it the containment board akin to /b/? yep
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Mar 19, 2016 20:17
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Annointed posted:Why do we still have gbs? Or is it the containment board akin to /b/? GBS is pretty harmless and it still has a good thread or two once a blue moon. 
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Mar 19, 2016 20:22
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I love that St_Rev went about throwing up conspiracy theories about Maoist bernie supporters antagonizing Trump supporters and then Trump himself did one better and accused Bernie Sanders and his supporters of exactly that in no uncertain terms, and better still, threatened Sanders supporters by urging his own supporters to attack them.
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Mar 19, 2016 20:32
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Fututor Magnus posted:I love that St_Rev went about throwing up conspiracy theories about Maoist bernie supporters antagonizing Trump supporters and then Trump himself did one better and accused Bernie Sanders and his supporters of exactly that in no uncertain terms, and better still, threatened Sanders supporters by urging his own supporters to attack them. this is actually bad
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Mar 19, 2016 20:45
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Hate Fibration posted:My favorite DnD prestige class. It gets a really devastating backstab bonus against Cambodians. 
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Mar 19, 2016 20:49
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:this is actually bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr4knvNNgtU
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Mar 19, 2016 20:49
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Moldbug wrote a blogpost about the very existence of chaotic good as an alignment, because that's a thing Serious Political Thinkers do The alignment system in D&D is dumb and terrible and I hope they kill it for 5e or whatever comes next.
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Mar 19, 2016 20:52
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Woolie Wool posted:The alignment system in D&D is dumb and terrible and I hope they kill it for 5e or whatever comes next. 5e's been out for over a year and while it still has the alignment grid it's not really used at all except for "Detect/Protection from [X]" spells and the like. Paladins can even smite whoever the gently caress they want now.
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Mar 19, 2016 21:00
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