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WickedHate posted:So she totally just killed or at least brutally disfigured and handicapped those guys. Lurdiak posted:There's a lot of that in Fraction's Hawkeye. Despite having about 2000 different non-lethal arrows, Clint just shoots a guy in the eyes with regular-rear end arrows in issue 3. Hawkeye v4 #2    Eyes, spinal column... maybe he should just go ahead and use Deadpool's Hulk-fist arrows? 
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Mar 18, 2016 20:25
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Like I said, weird for a marvel comic about Avengers.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:26
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, obviously. Fraction's Hawkeye was kinda cavalier about maiming but he didn't set out to maim like Moon Knight does Speaking of;   There's not enough  in the world.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:33
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Eh, Hawkeye has a history of stabbing people in the head with arrows.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:34
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Lurdiak posted:Like I said, weird for a marvel comic about Avengers. Cap was tossing hydra agents off trains in Bru's run
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Mar 18, 2016 20:35
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WickedHate posted:There's not enough I do not think that is the proper emoticon considering the context
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Mar 18, 2016 20:40
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bobkatt013 posted:Cap was tossing hydra agents off trains in Bru's run Tossing someone off a train in an action sequence is fine! It's like tossing someone off a bridge into water. They PROBABLY survived. Don't look into it! Spider-man just punched that goon across the room into unconsciousness. He definitely didn't die from a cerebral hemorrhage 2 panels later, everything's cool.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:44
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There is a very real difference between violence where the horrific, logical outcome is obscured or glossed over as a means to drive the story forward, and violence where the horrific, logical outcome is lovingly rendered and serves as the end point of the story.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:57
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Keeshhound posted:There is a very real difference between violence where the horrific, logical outcome is obscured or glossed over as a means to drive the story forward, and violence where the horrific, logical outcome is lovingly rendered and serves as the end point of the story. Yeah, the second one is better because it discourages people from glossing over the consequences of the brutal violence we enjoy
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Mar 18, 2016 20:59
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What did Louis CK do this time?
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Mar 18, 2016 21:04
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Lurdiak posted:Tossing someone off a train in an action sequence is fine! It's like tossing someone off a bridge into water. They PROBABLY survived. Don't look into it! Spider-man just punched that goon across the room into unconsciousness. He definitely didn't die from a cerebral hemorrhage 2 panels later, everything's cool. Sharon confirmed they died
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Mar 18, 2016 21:07
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Yeah, the second one is better because it discourages people from glossing over the consequences of the brutal violence we enjoy It's nice that you believe that.
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Mar 18, 2016 21:08
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I mean, in the run leading up to Old Man Rogers, he killed a lot. He took off mutate heads with his shield. He caused Mr. Magnificent to die. He killed Iron Nail if I remember correctly. The difference is killing for an Avenger is an option. Killing for Punisher is the Only Considered Course Of Action.
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Mar 18, 2016 21:10
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Fantastic Four #587. The bonds between the four have been undergoing great strain recently, as many threats bubble away in the background. The Fantastic Four find themselves divided, spread not just across the globe, but across the universe. The Thing has taken a serum created the Future Foundation (made up of gifted children) which has temporarily restored his human form for a week. The negative zone in the Baxter Building is under attack by Annihilus - commander of an unending wave of bugs and monsters.          As people often remark, it's a really good run, and many of you will have seen it before, but I'm posting it because X posts without any panels in in a panel thread makes me sad. Milotic fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 21:43
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KittyEmpress posted:I mean, in the run leading up to Old Man Rogers, he killed a lot. He took off mutate heads with his shield. He caused Mr. Magnificent to die. He killed Iron Nail if I remember correctly. It's a reasonable line of inquiry if you've been reading the older comics, or you're old enough to have been reading them for a long time. Back in the '80s and '90s, there was a fairly strenuous "heroes do not kill" rule in place, both stated and unstated, to the point where the climax of the giant "Operation: Galactic Storm" crossover involves a schism in the Avengers over the issue. There was a lot of angst and brooding over the topic, particularly from Cap and Hawkeye. Part of the line-wide tonal shift in the 2000s, with Quesada in charge, is a general relaxation of that policy, to the point where pretty much everyone has an incidental, deliberate body count. For some characters, it's mostly faceless aliens or HYDRA goons, but they'll still straight-up kill a dude from time to time and nobody really seems to care anymore.
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Mar 18, 2016 21:54
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I liked how Old Man Rogers storyline did killing. Killing was acceptable if and only if it was the only way. Killing someone who is defeated, killing someone who isn't fighting back, killing someone who you easily can deal with other ways, those are all unacceptable. I don't think every hero should be killing. Or that every villain should be killed. I was still pretty surprised when I read the storyline and saw the amount of people who died. But I guess mutates aren't really people, and Mr. magnificent was literally a 'I kill you or you kill 200 people' situation, with no other options. People who really want bloodthirsty murderous heroes are terrible though. That's not what a Hero should be.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:00
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Presenting the most badass thing in House of M:
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Mar 18, 2016 22:17
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Keeshhound posted:It's nice that you believe that. Discouragement isn't always successful, mind you
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Mar 18, 2016 22:22
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Lurdiak posted:Presenting the most badass thing in House of M: Wasn't it canon by then that Cap decapitated Baron Zemo with his shield?
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Mar 18, 2016 22:38
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Calaveron posted:Wasn't it canon by then that Cap decapitated Baron Zemo with his shield?
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Mar 18, 2016 22:40
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Calaveron posted:Wasn't it canon by then that Cap decapitated Baron Zemo with his shield? I think you're thinking of Baron Blood, who was a vampire. Anyway, Cap's always struck me as someone who thinks killing is an option if you can't see any other options, but if you can't, that means you failed. So he takes every death he's responsible for as a personal failure.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:44
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I know there's some dislike over the creator, but I found the middle row of the latest JL8 page really beautiful.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:59
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Milotic posted:Fantastic Four #587. The bonds between the four have been undergoing great strain recently, as many threats bubble away in the background. The Fantastic Four find themselves divided, spread not just across the globe, but across the universe. The Thing has taken a serum created the Future Foundation (made up of gifted children) which has temporarily restored his human form for a week. The negative zone in the Baxter Building is under attack by Annihilus - commander of an unending wave of bugs and monsters.  ...  and many months later... 
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Mar 19, 2016 00:22
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And this got a great callback in Spider Man. 
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Mar 19, 2016 04:26
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Captain Bravo posted:And this got a great callback in Spider Man. I am pretty sure that was in FF 17
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Mar 19, 2016 04:31
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I'm sorry, I know this is a serious moment and it does indeed strike me as badass, but that's a helluva  -y face on her in the Kill Annihilus panel. Her eyes are just too far apart.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:31
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Keeshhound posted:There is a very real difference between violence where the horrific, logical outcome is obscured or glossed over as a means to drive the story forward, and violence where the horrific, logical outcome is lovingly rendered and serves as the end point of the story. 'Lovingly rendered' is a bit much. It's not like this is a Kirkman book; Hawkeye did not jam two arrows into a man's gullet and rip them out sideways in an explosion of blood and sinew that would make Freddy Kreuger blush.
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Mar 19, 2016 07:22
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I think the reference was to the Moon Knight pages with the mangled dude and the blood and stuff
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Mar 19, 2016 11:31
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Lurdiak posted:I totally have a problem with Fraction's weird grindhouse violence Hawkeye. It goes against his character because he's not supposed to be like Moon Knight or Punisher, but rather an Avenger who is not a big fan of maiming and murder. 
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Mar 19, 2016 11:35
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"AVENGERS DON'T KILL" "I DIDN'T KILL HIM I JUST LET HIM DIE" "THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID" Doesn't that mean the dude isn't dead and this argument is kinda pointless?
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Mar 19, 2016 21:08
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:"AVENGERS DON'T KILL" Pretty sure the "that's not what he said" was in response to Mockingbird claiming the guy drugged her and forced her to love him. So it's not something important like two Avengers having a pointless argument, it's just a man explicitly siding with his wife's rapist over her.
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Mar 19, 2016 21:23
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:"AVENGERS DON'T KILL" It was the Phantom Rider and his ghost is known to possess his successor. So, yeah, he's dead, but he's able to communicate because ~comics~.
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Mar 19, 2016 21:25
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dordreff posted:Pretty sure the "that's not what he said" was in response to Mockingbird claiming the guy drugged her and forced her to love him. So it's not something important like two Avengers having a pointless argument, it's just a man explicitly siding with his wife's rapist over her. I don't know what was up with the 80s and weird rape storylines.
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Mar 19, 2016 21:56
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bobkatt013 posted:Sharon confirmed they died My copy of Winter Soldier is in a box, but as I recall, no she didn't. She confirmed that they were grievously injured with broken facebones and such, but didn't say anyone died.
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Mar 19, 2016 22:01
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Chaos Hippy posted:My copy of Winter Soldier is in a box, but as I recall, no she didn't. She confirmed that they were grievously injured with broken facebones and such, but didn't say anyone died. Captain America V5 #1  More on-topic, the sequence leading up to that page:       And then the nagging happens.
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Mar 19, 2016 22:41
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We've secretly replaced Captain America with Batman. Let's tune in and see if anyone notices.
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Mar 19, 2016 23:37
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CzarChasm posted:We've secretly replaced Captain America with Batman. Let's tune in and see if anyone notices. If batman did that no one would have died. 
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Mar 19, 2016 23:45
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Some days you just can't rid of a bomb, though.
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Mar 20, 2016 00:10
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Reminds me of the bits in This film is not yet rated where some people propose that it's wrong-headed to lower a film rating when the consequences of violence are sanitized (for example, showing people getting shot, but no blood or cries of pain), because that might on the whole mess up kids more. Sadly there can be no natural experiment, since everyone who reads comics is messed up (also since the vast majority of works in any medium will fail to depict violence with maturity/wisdom).
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Mar 20, 2016 00:11
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Ygolonac posted:Captain America V5 #1 Well, there it is. My mistake.
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Mar 20, 2016 00:23
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