|
Air is lava! posted:Anyway I can't see a way to do these puzzles if you are colorblind. They basically simulate colorblindness as part of the solution. For the greenhouse puzzles. It took me a while to get the specifics of the mechanics. I mean in the early tutorial puzzles, it's quite clear, but then you get the ones with the "see through a filter" solution, where I got some by actually looking through the required color filter, but missed the "filter glass" for one or two and made wrong assumptions about additional rules that might come into play, like "it's ok to have two blacks with two red/browns (yes I now know that they are red and no browns, but that's colorblindness for you. But up until the final panels of the greenhouse, the groups of colors were pretty much clear to me. Again, I probably would identify some of the colors with a wrong name, but I could get that they were different than the others. In the "final" ones of the greenhouse that come later on I took notes. I mostly had an issue confusing/merging Cyan with White. What worked for me there was a mix of: 1. Taking notes of the (assumed) color of the puzzle line, (assumed) light of the room's floor and ceiling and assumed colors on the panel for each floor. For a few floors the groups of colors are quite easily distinguishable. 2. Assiging (assumed) colors to numbers. After you reach the first levels, revisit these notes and update them taking into account that some dots behave differently than others (previously assumed to be of the same color) under different lighting. 2b. (helped a bit, and confused me a bit) Trying to make assumptions based on knowledge of what you get by combining basic colors (Blue, Yellow, Red) from high school art classes. This probably ended up confusing me more than helping me, because again I missed that there was a cyan color, and I think the game uses a different "basic color" wheel. 3. Some trial and error & dumb luck. Already, the mere fact that you need to draw a line from start to finish that cannot cross itself limits the possible solutions. But additionally most floors have multiple alternative solutions to group the colors, which again most of the time are easy to distinguish from their neighbors on the panel. However, again, the misunderstanding of the final tutorial panels ended up being an obstacle in figuring out the solutions in an faster way. (I ended up finding most (or maybe all) of the combos for each floor up to the fourth one, before figuring out the solution to reach the final floor with the elevator.
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 13:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:13 |
|
|
The single starburst problem seems really obvious to me, as an observer learning along with you guys. You're approaching the problems in a frustrating way: when you come up with a new scenario, you're tossing out all the old information you've already learned and start looking for a completely new set of rules, instead of trying to slightly modify the rule you already know so that it STILL fits what you've already learned, but incorporates a new scenario. For the starbursts: you know that in every puzzle with a starburst so far, the starburst has to be paired with another starburst of the same color, and no other starbursts of the same color. You also know that starbursts don't care two figs if they're grouped with starbursts of different colors. You've learned this down pat. When you came to the puzzle with black starbursts, and black and white rounded squares, you basically tossed out everything you knew about starbursts so far, and made up a new rule-- "when you have starbursts and squares, they have to be joined with the opposite color." This is nonsense, and contradicts everything you've already learned about starbursts so far. There's no way that a starburst HAS to be paired with the opposite color, because you've solved dozens of puzzles already where starbursts are NOT paired with the opposite color at all! Go back and rethink this! (spoiler for my deduction, which I'm 99% certain is correct, but I lack to game to test it) Note that in this puzzle, the starbursts were unhappy when paired with the same color, but didn't care when paired with a different color. (Stop thinking about "opposite" colors. We've already learned elsewhere that there are no opposite colors! Black is not opposite from white, it's just a different color than white. Black, white, orange, blue, green... all just different colors with no "opposite" relationships.) You've already learned that when a pair of starbursts is combined with a group of rounded squares of the same color, they don't like that. So we now know that starbursts DO interact with rounded squares of the same color somehow. It shouldn't be much of a leap to draw the conclusion: A starburst is satisfied if it is paired with one, and only one, other shape of the same color. It ignores all other colors. To clarify the rule: It does not care what the other shape is, as long as it is the same color. A starburst can be satisfied by another starburst, and the pair will satisfy each other, but a starburst could ALSO be satisfied by one and only one OTHER shape of the same color... such as a square. But don't give it two extra squares, because that violates the "one and only one other shape of the same color" rule. Second spoiler, with an additional guess at the game mechanics: In fact, I bet that none of the shapes care what other shapes the various symbols are. I bet a rounded square has to be separated from other colors, regardless of shape. I bet if we come across any new shapes, they will also not care about the shapes of other objects. Those tetris pieces? They have a color. Bet they interact with starbursts and rounded squares too. And those Y shapes? I can't remember where, but I think I remember different colors of those too, maybe in the boat puzzle? Or if we haven't seen any yet, bet there will be some later. Iunnrais fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Mar 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:40
|
|
|
Iunnrais posted:The single starburst problem seems really obvious to me, as an observer learning along with you guys. You're approaching the problems in a frustrating way: when you come up with a new scenario, you're tossing out all the old information you've already learned and start looking for a completely new set of rules, instead of trying to slightly modify the rule you already know so that it STILL fits what you've already learned, but incorporates a new scenario. Regarding your second speculative spoiler, you're not exactly right and if you think about it you'll realize you're even contradicting yourself in your first spoiler (which is spot on). OPs, here's something a little more vague to keep in mind: I know you were half joking, but the game does not, in fact, "change the rules" on you at any time. When you come upon a puzzle that seems to be unsolvable using the rules you've constructed so far try to think how the rules can be abstracted in a way that still makes all the previous solutions valid while accommodating the new scenario. The game likes to play this trick with a lot of its mechanics and after it does that you usually reach the actual rule in play.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 14:57
|
|
|
Ah, you're absolutely right about my second spoiler there. Heh. Yeah, that would cause issues with this exact puzzle in question.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 15:20
|
|
|
The statue of the lady reaching down looked like it'd combine with the giant lady statue holding her hands up somehow if you could get the perspective right. Oh, and speaking of statues and appearances, you both commented on this guy in the town way back in episode 5,  but neither of you commented on the rocks at his feet. If you look at his shadow and those rocks, it looks like he's juggling.  And Lunnrais pretty much covered what I wanted to say about the single-starburst puzzle, and then some. Going to spoiler this next bit just because it's something that the duo didn't sound like they were even considering in the video I'm guessing successfully hitting a different exit on those folding bridge puzzles causes the bridge to unfold in a different direction, going by the orange bridge ending midair but having ends nearby.
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
"Oh, that is a straight-up giant lady" And she's not the only one you can see from there...
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
noticed something for the first time watching the video. on the look through the glass puzzle a thin yellow line of paint is there. edit: might just be a reflection. Shaded Spriter fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 17, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
It's really neat seeing you try and think about what might be boat puzzles now that you know all this environmental activation exists.
|
|
#
?
Mar 18, 2016 00:46
|
|
|
Okay, part 12 is up now! I feel especially happy with the progress we made in this one.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 07:17
|
|
|
And that 17:30 puzzle is where my first convoluted approach to the greenhouse already paid off, because I was used to breaking those down into the component parts. E: and yeah, Eddington also provided the "easier to [...] than for a scientist to walk through a doorway." Bruceski fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Mar 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 07:44
|
|
|
Jungle hint: if the sound does not fit on the graph, maybe it's not the right sound.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 08:02
|
|
|
Now solve this puzzle's audio track.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 11:13
|
|
|
I hated that place the most. I am way to tone deaf. I knew exactly what I needed to do, but was not able to do it.
cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Mar 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 11:22
|
|
|
pedrovay2003 posted:I feel especially happy with the progress we made in this one. Yeah, as I suspected, you blasted through the greenhouse/ elevator section way way faster than I did. I think I spent a few hours there. Still, I'm happy that I could do it on my own. I didn't have much issue with the audio cue panels, other than the main (or maybe only) issue I have with the game, whereby in most of the last puzzle panels they make them hard just for the shake of frustrating you (because the mechanic remains the same, and you know what you need to do). On a side note, I've read some early reviews from people playing the game that it gave them motion sickness. I think there was also a patch to mitigate the issue -- and I believe I bought the game right after it was patched, so the timing was perfect. I didn't get motion sickness from playing the game, but in the part of this last video where you going up and down the stairs and the colored rooms I honestly felt nauseous. I think it was the combination of the colored-lit rooms, the youtube compression and the seemingly awkward movement/ camera movement with the controller maybe (because there was too much walking looking downwards or upwards and rubbing up against walls for some reason).
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:01
|
|
|
I had more trouble with the sound puzzle you got stuck on than any other in the game. Yea - thought it was harder than the ship and m-box puzzles Had to record it in audacity, then slow it down.AbstractNapper posted:On a side note, I've read some early reviews from people playing the game that it gave them motion sickness. I think there was also a patch to mitigate the issue -- and I believe I bought the game right after it was patched, so the timing was perfect. I didn't get motion sickness from playing the game, but in the part of this last video where you going up and down the stairs and the colored rooms I honestly felt nauseous. I think it was the combination of the colored-lit rooms, the youtube compression and the seemingly awkward movement/ camera movement with the controller maybe (because there was too much walking looking downwards or upwards and rubbing up against walls for some reason). Dominoes fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Mar 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:03
|
|
|
quote:
Here's a belated "thank you"! I always like to find new royalty-free music.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 16:14
|
|
|
Those birdcall puzzles might be my favorite among the ones we've seen so far. I honestly hope they take it to the logical conclusion and force you to compose a tune with the puzzle instead of just mimic one. You were very very close to the solution of the one you gave up on with your last attempt, you just didn't notice that the final note was the same as second note.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 16:56
|
|
|
I'm surprised you didn't look around when you opened up the wall to the outside. I wonder if there are environmental puzzles to be seen (or more diabolically, you have to leave that open and then boat around it). Does anyone know what the bird that can be heard in the last segment is? I'm referring to the one with a long sound in the middle; it sounds roughly like the Star Trek communication attention signal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
Air is lava! posted:I hated that place the most. I am way to tone deaf. I knew exactly what I needed to do, but was not able to do it. My computer's had the skipping audio in there. Caused the sorts of issues you can imagine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
I hated those so much. I'm horribly tone deaf. There was only one sound puzzle I couldn't do in the game, though. I knew exactly what I needed to do, but I couldn't figure out what the pitches were in relation to each other or where the loop started. It was the only puzzle I had to look up in the game 
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
That specific bird puzzle stonewalled me for the longest time. I think it was the final area I finished despite finding the puzzles very shortly after starting the game. Good job solving the elevator puzzles as well as you did. I know it took some time in the end but you did a good job of figuring out the mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 19:51
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:My computer's had the skipping audio in there. Caused the sorts of issues you can imagine. Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Fiendly posted:You were very very close to the solution of the one you gave up on with your last attempt, you just didn't notice that the final note was the same as second note. It seriously gave me a twitch when they did every permutation of that hypothesis except the last.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
Kangra posted:Does anyone know what the bird that can be heard in the last segment is? I'm referring to the one with a long sound in the middle; it sounds roughly like the Star Trek communication attention signal. It's the Loon/Diver call. Take a listen to them here: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Common_Loon/sounds Beautiful birds with ethereal calls.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 20:21
|
|
|
Bruceski posted:My computer's had the skipping audio in there. Caused the sorts of issues you can imagine. Now that I think about it, Mine did that too. But I decided to use a guide after the third one of these anyway, so whatever. I wouldn't say that this is a worse puzzle than the water level bullshit, but It's still the one which I dislike the most. It's also really repitative. Well, at least the worst parts are almost over.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 01:01
|
|
|
I liked the idea of the sound puzzles but I was too bad at them to appreciate them over the frustration I felt.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
Taking notes in the Elevator is how I solved that one too...Actually had a good system of assigning each square a letter. doing the first colour and then the second changing the ones that changed colours to other letters. One thing I love about the Jungle being next to the Greenhouse - is that Jonathan deliberately put the colour blind inaccessable puzzles next to the deaf inaccessable puzzles so that if someone can not do one they hopefully can do the other one. Another part of this is you are assaulted by blinding lights and then are assaulted by loud noises.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 06:13
|
|
|
Shaded Spriter posted:Taking notes in the Elevator is how I solved that one too...Actually had a good system of assigning each square a letter. doing the first colour and then the second changing the ones that changed colours to other letters. I made notes of whether they reflected red green and blue light. So in the bottom room I'd mark every dot except the far left ones with an R, then as it goes up a floor to magenta (red and blue) everything but the far right gets a B (confirmed on the blue floor) and then the cyan room adds G to everything except those two dots in the middle.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 06:40
|
|
|
A thing that made me go "mother fucker" out loud in real life; Go back to the ground floor of the bunker, at the series of panels you have to solve before you can open the door to get behind the coloured windows. The last panel in that series is identical to the elevator panel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
Fedule posted:A thing that made me go "mother fucker" out loud in real life; I didn't notice that either until I saw it in this LP. I wonder if it was intended as an alternate solution (for the colorblind?). Or maybe it's a failsafe that makes sure, 100%, that the player can handle that puzzle correctly before throwing the elevator gimmick at them. Or it's neither and Blow is laughing at us. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 01:41
|
|
|
The Protagonist posted:It seriously gave me a twitch when they did every permutation of that hypothesis except the last. Pete does this. He will get fed up trying to solve the puzzle and just flail at it for a bit doing all x out of x+1 solutions before giving up just before doing it the correct way. And I think it is funny.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 19:21
|
|
|
I didn't think three notes were all that hard to sort into low/middle/high, but then again I've been playing music or singing most of my life. I guess it's just different puzzle strokes for different puzzle folks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 00:45
|
|
|
Glazius posted:I guess it's just different puzzle strokes for different puzzle folks. It is literally exactly this. Everyone has their puzzle nemesis, the puzzles that undo their thought processes. And everyone has their puzzle soulmate, the puzzles that just click in their brain, that they can do intuitively and why can't anybody else just see it they're so easy-- To this day the desert sunlight puzzles just make me irrationally angry, and the yellow shape puzzles just - I just look at them and they solve themselves.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 02:13
|
|
|
Fedule posted:It is literally exactly this. Yeah, the more complicated yellow shapes drive me nuts but color squares & stars are ezpz, etc. It's part of what makes watching an LP of this game so fun and frustrating, getting to see how other people think.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 02:19
|
|
|
Fedule posted:It is literally exactly this. This is why Portal and Portal 2 are some of the best puzzle games around
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 04:46
|
|
|
Glazius posted:I didn't think three notes were all that hard to sort into low/middle/high, but then again I've been playing music or singing most of my life. I guess it's just different puzzle strokes for different puzzle folks. Comparing the relative pitch of notes is a learned skill. I'm terrible at it to the point where I can't tune a guitar by ear with a reference to go by. I can tell that it sounds wrong, but not whether it's flat or sharp.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 05:06
|
|
|
tlarn posted:This is why Portal and Portal 2 are some of the best puzzle games around I thought Portal was a great puzzle game, but I can't say the same for Portal 2. I liked that game, but it was too streamlined and really signposted a lot of things compared to Portal. It's a nice experience, but a bad puzzle game. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Mar 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 05:39
|
|
|
Dr. Fetus posted:I thought Portal was a great puzzle game, but I can't say the same for Portal 2. I liked that game, but it was too streamlined and really signposted a lot of things compared to Portal. It's a nice experience, but a bad puzzle game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 06:35
|
|
|
I liked Portal as a puzzle game (and Portal 2 up to where I left it), but it involved way too much first person platforming. My first reaction whenever I see that in any game is always a negative one... It was fun jumping into portals and propelling yourself towards platforms-- but missing them and retrying... not so much. Although granted, this didn't happen very often, so maybe they had some logic in place that helped out with the platforming parts. The same was an issue with Q.U.B.E. , FRACT OSC (with which I got too frustrated and abandoned (...) ), and Antichamber, although I did enjoy other parts of those games (puzzles, physics, mechanics). So in that sense, I prefer the design choice in The Witness, where they removed jumping altogether, albeit it made it awkward to navigate around some of the paths.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 12:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 2, 2024 03:13 |
|
|
The Talos Principle did jumping quite well. If you need to jump for a puzzle, it always fixes where you land, so you don't actually have to aim anything. And if you are runing around, hunting for easter eggs or try to break puzzles jumping just works like in every other game. But you had the option to play in third person mode, so that makes everything better anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 12:44
|
|