|
Triple A posted:Honestly, F1 should have a relaxed rule-set so people can do clever poo poo and make cars go as fast as the rules and ingenuity allows them to be. gently caress cost savings, gently caress road car relevance, gently caress mid-season rule fuckery and especially gently caress greenwashing. well yeah, that's can-am's philosophy and they stuck around for the long-term and are a very stable racing series
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 00:18 |
|
|
can-am did nothing wrong, they only folded because of saudis loving over everyone in the oil crisis
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:22
|
|
|
can-am spent their way to death and the wide-open rules led to a single car/team dominating every year, so if that's your idea of improving F1 then lmao
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:25
|
|
|
anything else than this current rule-set is an improvement for F1
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
What if there was a salary cap of sorts though? Wouldn't it force teams and manufacturers alike to make extremely crafty components at minimal cost, all the while leveling the playing field? You could set a minimum and maximum, so you can still have lovely new teams - but all the big dogs play under the same $$$ constraint. I mean, you look at the division of funds in F1 and it's a bit loving absurd.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:39
|
|
|
then it becomes a question of who's going to have the best accountants team who spends the most still gets a poo poo-ton of victories
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:40
|
|
|
But all teams can spend the most if they can afford the cap? This cap wouldn't be set at something unattainable by atleast 1/2 to 3/4 of the field. I'm not sure how you'd police parts costs, but it'd be nice in theory.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:44
|
|
|
I have to wonder if splitting the prize money equally amongst all competing teams and creating an impetus to be the most competitive to get the most TV screen time (and therefore attract the best sponsors) might be a better idea, combined with an engine cost cap for non factory teams that cannot exceed 50% of the annual prize money for each team.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:46
|
|
|
the cost cap is irrelevant due to the most money-loaded teams discovering the best way to cook the books
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:47
|
|
|
Triple A posted:the cost cap is irrelevant due to the most money-loaded teams discovering the best way to cook the books Inevitable. I'm just spitballing ideas to make it economical for midfield and tail end teams to actually survive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:48
|
|
|
darth cookie posted:Inevitable. I'm just spitballing ideas to make it economical for midfield and tail end teams to actually survive. the only way most of them can even be economically viable is becoming either the playthings of oil sheiks or by becoming/supplying part-time entries and since there's no single car semi-pro entries to fill out the grid, good luck with that
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:51
|
|
|
equally distribution of funds pretty much needs to happen, it's the only way to stabilize the midfield teams, but a cost cap is just impossible to enforce and would only create more problems
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:54
|
|
|
Factory spec engines for everyone! Go nuts with your chassis and aero!
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:58
|
|
|
be nice wicka posted:equally distribution of funds pretty much needs to happen, it's the only way to stabilize the midfield teams, but a cost cap is just impossible to enforce and would only create more problems the only real criteria for getting the money in the first place would be "Be present for every race and qualify both of your cars in every one of them" the money should more or less be the same for every team, no matter how much everyone's favorite energy drink billboard or self-important italians complain
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:58
|
|
|
be nice wicka posted:equally distribution of funds pretty much needs to happen, it's the only way to stabilize the midfield teams, but a cost cap is just impossible to enforce and would only create more problems No doubt. But ensuring SOME limitations (particularly on the most expensive component - the power unit) at least ensures that there's at least some money left over for the teams to develop and pay their staff and whatnot. Sure some teams are going to have more money from other sources, or factory support, or better sponsors, or richer backers, or whatever. They'll have more money and they'll still win, but the idea is to try to keep grids a little fuller, and perhaps with enough wiggle room in their left over money after the power unit is paid for to develop other things that might move them up (or possibly down) the grid.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 13:58
|
|
|
Diet Crack posted:Factory spec engines for everyone! Go nuts with your chassis and aero! engine homologation would be legit great for the sport they can do some crazy poo poo there but they do need to make a triple digit of them every year
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
enri posted:Mercedes time as top dog will come to an end eventually, just got to stick through the tough bits People seem to forget the Ferrari years pretty quickly. 2002/4 were horrendous, and the two Ferrari drivers couldn't even race each other.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:00
|
|
|
A local aerial photographer worked at the F1 last year and made a 360 degree interactive panorama of the racetrack last year: http://www.lensaloft.com.au/Interactive_tour/AustralianGP/AustralianGrandPrix.html Pretty neat if you want to look around the main straight area.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:02
|
|
|
darth cookie posted:No doubt. But ensuring SOME limitations (particularly on the most expensive component - the power unit) at least ensures that there's at least some money left over for the teams to develop and pay their staff and whatnot. Sure some teams are going to have more money from other sources, or factory support, or better sponsors, or richer backers, or whatever. They'll have more money and they'll still win, but the idea is to try to keep grids a little fuller, and perhaps with enough wiggle room in their left over money after the power unit is paid for to develop other things that might move them up (or possibly down) the grid. there is a cap on customer engines, it's £12m
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:05
|
|
|
Erm. What? Even distribution of money and a spend cap would work everyone had customer engines, but for all the small team's bitching the engine manufacturers massively subsidise the sport. So ok Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes all get the same 50 million spend cap as the rest of the field. What do you think is going to power the car? Air? Why would all these teams even want to be in the sport if there are customer engines? learnincurve fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Mar 19, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:08
|
|
|
be nice wicka posted:there is a cap on customer engines, it's £12m Really? I have to admit I'm not up to date on engine costs and I'm getting progressively more drunk. I do recall that for coming in 10th place or something in the championship it was worth like $10 million bucks which doesn't even cover the cost of the engines and if you got lower than that, you got nothing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:09
|
|
|
Triple A posted:engine homologation would be legit great for the sport i literally just explained to you, in detail, why taking engines out of equation means losing manufacturer funding. how are you going to replace the funding, unless you're content with F1 being overtaken as the supposed pinnacle of motorsport?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:09
|
|
|
Having a factory engine would ruin the sport. There are plenty of engine formulas. We want Ferrari Mercedes and everyone else to design a motor against each other. I would like the engine regulations opened like WEC where different fuels and turbo v na. Making the regs fair would be a bastard but it would be more fun to watch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:12
|
|
|
be nice wicka posted:i literally just explained to you, in detail, why taking engines out of equation means losing manufacturer funding. how are you going to replace the funding, unless you're content with F1 being overtaken as the supposed pinnacle of motorsport? we'll only lose manufacturers who aren't in for the sport also, F1 will still remain the pinnacle because the rest of 4 wheeled motorsport is too busy either becoming boring spec serieses or have even dumber rulebooks than F1
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:12
|
|
|
Honestly FIA should just apply wec rules to f1 already for cars and qualifying. Especially since that qualifying format is also really weird.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:13
|
|
|
Triple A posted:we'll only lose manufacturers who aren't in for the sport That's all of them. They're in it for the advertising of their brand, development of their engineers, and (maybe) developing technologies which may at some point trickle down to their road products.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:16
|
|
|
Triple A posted:we'll only lose manufacturers who aren't in for the sport no one is in it for the sport except ferrari
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
darth cookie posted:That's all of them. then good loving riddance to them, let people who actually give a gently caress about racing do their thing btw, Ferrari would be nothing without F1
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
darth cookie posted:Really? I have to admit I'm not up to date on engine costs and I'm getting progressively more drunk. I do recall that for coming in 10th place or something in the championship it was worth like $10 million bucks which doesn't even cover the cost of the engines and if you got lower than that, you got nothing. sauber made the least prize money in 2015, just under $47m, or £32m.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:18
|
|
|
Nice of everyone who wasn't around for all the endless debates about this in the off season to join us. If you want F1 to be more like X then you should probably go watch X. F1 is 90% politics with 10% racing. They do not have the money they used to back in the glory tobacco days when a small rotation of teams would win 4 championships in a row, the sport is only able to survive today because 4 engine manufacturers are prepared to use it as a research and advertising platform. These manufacturers spend billions on these engines and only charge £12 million per team a year. What the ever loving gently caress more do you want from them?
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:20
|
|
|
F1 Karting Series
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
They want a loving spec series. Or they want Mercedes to get an arbitrary penalty. In fact what they want is a series where some loving nobody in a lovely privateer team can compete with the big boys in dicing racing full of overtaking. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35850766 They are looking at scrapping that poo poo show we saw this morning.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:24
|
|
|
Triple A posted:then good loving riddance to them, let people who actually give a gently caress about racing do their thing There wouldn't be any because there'd be no engines. quote:btw, Ferrari would be nothing without F1 Maybe? They sure do love to draw comparisons between their road cars and their F1 technology, but their most expensive and valuable cars are all classics from a time when their cars had even less in common with the cars they make now. If Ferrari went back to making achingly beautiful sports cars and dropped all the F1 poo poo I would probably cry actual rainbow coloured tears of joy. To be honest, Ferrari is such a well known and far reaching brand that they probably don't even need the F1 connection to continue to succeed. If they wanted to continue with racing, they could always drop into WEC or build a spec series in the same way that Porsche has their various Carrera Cup series. be nice wicka posted:sauber made the least prize money in 2015, just under $47m, or £32m. Well there you go, I stand corrected. The pricing structure must have changed, because I do recall the big deal about Manor stealing 10th from Caterham a couple of years back and them getting 10 million or so for it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
I don't really care about Joe Privateer rocking up and doing well, but it'd be nice to have something other than ten years of "congrats, team that interpreted the rules in this one certain way, you will destroy everyone and be champions". Although my solution to this has been to stop watching, so I guess I'm the real winner of F1.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:27
|
|
|
learnincurve posted:Nice of everyone who wasn't around for all the endless debates about this in the off season to join us. you guys remember the aaron carter song about him beating shaq in a game of one-on-one, then he wakes up and it turns out it was all a dream, but if it was a dream, and this wasn't real, how'd he get that jersey with the name o'neal? that's what learnincurve is going to feel like when she wakes up tomorrow and reads this goodpost
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
Even just the last 10 years, F1 went from having manufacturers all up and down the grid, to having almost no manufacturers up and down the grid (post-recession), to having it be manufacturer-dominated again. This is not ancient history going back to the Cosworth DFV vs. Ferrari, this is the last decade. The sport does not depend on manufacturers. The current structure of the sport does, but Formula One, as a concept, does not. It won't die if they leave, it will just be different.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:29
|
|
|
What Ferrari wants is a series where lots of people watch but they win it all. What Red Bull wants is a series where lots of people watch but they win it all. What Mclaren wants is a series where lots of people watch but they win it all. What Williams wants is a series where lots of people watch but they win it all. etc etc
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:29
|
|
|
Alain Post posted:Even just the last 10 years, F1 went from having manufacturers all up and down the grid, to having almost no manufacturers up and down the grid (post-recession), to having it be manufacturer-dominated again. This is not ancient history going back to the Cosworth DFV vs. Ferrari, this is the last decade. The sport does not depend on manufacturers. The current structure of the sport does, but Formula One, as a concept, does not. It won't die if they leave, it will just be different. which ignores the fact that Things Change
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:30
|
|
|
F1 is the pinnacle of terrible ideas. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised this latest "improvement" is a disaster. Also, a true F1 fan will always be angry with the sport.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 00:18 |
|
|
be nice wicka posted:which ignores the fact that Things Change This is exactly my point. poo poo changes so often that it is complete foolishness to declare that this time when the bubble pops and the big money car makers leave the sport that it will be the death of Formula One.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2016 14:31
|
|