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F1 does not depend on manufacturers, it depends on money, and right now i see no way to provide the amount of money F1 needs to be F1 than car manufacturers. if you have an idea, out with it, otherwise don't pretend that every era of F1 magically operated with the same external pressures
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Mar 19, 2016 14:31
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Alain Post posted:This is exactly my point. poo poo changes so often that it is complete foolishness to declare that this time when the bubble pops and the big money car makers leave the sport that it will be the death of Formula One. no that's totally not the point dude
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Mar 19, 2016 14:32
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be nice wicka posted:F1 does not depend on manufacturers, it depends on money, and right now i see no way to provide the amount of money F1 needs to be F1 than car manufacturers. if you have an idea, out with it, otherwise don't pretend that every era of F1 magically operated with the same external pressures Well FOM could stop sucking out 50% of the money that comes from the tracks and license rights and distribute it to thebahahahahah I couldn't even finish. be nice wicka posted:no that's totally not the point dude Perhaps "Everything that is old is new again" is the point? Who knows, stranger things have happened.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:33
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manufacturer influence has ebbed and flowed many times, that's true. in the past, we've always had tobacco money to fall back on. now we don't. in the past, the market has not cared so much about fuel and efficiency and environmentalism that it's suicide to back a series built on gas-guzzling V12s. now that's something we have to worry about. alain post, you keep looking at the effects and not the causes. the causes today are very, very different than they have in the past. this is not the same poo poo.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:37
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Drivers, Team and Manufacturers championships. Manufacturers take home a bonus. Solo manufacturers receive incentives competing against 2-3 team 'supplier' manufacturers. Teams individually still win bonuses, Drivers the same. Then you'll have direct competition between manufacturers as well, instead of "How's my engine going for you? Tell me all about it." A win for one engine supplier helps more than one team. I dunno, I'm just brainstorming at this point because the sport is loving broken and viewership will probably continue to decline.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:43
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the F1 audience sees right thru the greenwashing and think their "eco" bullshit is boring trying to market hybrid tech to the F1 audience is kind of like trying to market red meat for vegans it's why they don't watch races anymore
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Mar 19, 2016 14:44
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That Gillian Palmer seems like a nice lass. It's good to have a new British F1 driver who isn't a complete chunt for once.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:44
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JollyOne Palmer
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Mar 19, 2016 14:45
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Triple A posted:the F1 audience sees right thru the greenwashing and think their "eco" bullshit is boring this is like saying the premier league needs to market to professional footballers. the "F1 audience" you describe is comically small, they will always watch no matter how much they whine or pretend they don't watch, and the real bulk of the sport's viewership is made of people who aren't cynical children who propose, honestly, the worst loving ideas i've ever heard.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:46
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Brainwrong posted:That Gillian Palmer seems like a nice lass. It's good to have a new British F1 driver who isn't a complete chunt for once. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Chunt 
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Mar 19, 2016 14:47
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also, is viewership actually declining? in markets that matter? i'd ask the same question about races that matter. last i heard viewership was still growing in the UK and it's certainly growing in the US. my honest opinion is that the sport is in no danger whatsoever.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:47
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Last I checked, viewership was down in virtually every market except the US, which might just be because of NBCSN's growth. This may be a few years old, though.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:51
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Even Renault are calling him Jo Palmer in case they spell his name wrong. Hey guys it turns out F1 is being greenwashed and it's all a eco-conspiracy, and also that Wicka and I are no longer in contention for the worst poster in the worst thread  . Quick Wicka you do a massive post angrily defending McLaren using bad punctuation and I'll rate the team principles in order of nicest arse.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:51
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and if TV ratings genuinely are falling...aren't TV ratings pretty much falling for everything everywhere across the board? people don't watch TV the same way they used to. it's an outdated metric.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:51
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I think the last batch of comprehensive figures was from 2012. Globally F1 has been on a decline since 2008 in terms of viewership. There may have been a resurgence in the UK because of Hamilton and Button, but for the most part I know a lot of people personally who don't give a gently caress about the sport anymore.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:51
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be nice wicka posted:and if TV ratings genuinely are falling...aren't TV ratings pretty much falling for everything everywhere across the board? people don't watch TV the same way they used to. it's an outdated metric. Pretty much everything except live sports. Go ask UFC if ratings are always falling.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:53
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Alain Post posted:Pretty much everything except live sports. Go ask UFC if ratings are always falling. not a real relevant comparison, though, is it? it's an entirely different sport with a different broadcast structure. the question i would ask is this: how many of us here are watching these races in ways that would be measured by traditional ratings systems?
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Mar 19, 2016 14:56
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You know what ratings have been up over the last 10 years because people have gone "gently caress that I'm not paying £20 for sky sports"? Number of people watching the sport is fine, number of people paying to watch the sport is bad.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:56
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be nice wicka posted:also, is viewership actually declining? in markets that matter? i'd ask the same question about races that matter. last i heard viewership was still growing in the UK and it's certainly growing in the US. my honest opinion is that the sport is in no danger whatsoever. for every brit gained, there's two in continental europe and one in latin america who've stopped watching be nice wicka posted:this is like saying the premier league needs to market to professional footballers. the "F1 audience" you describe is comically small, they will always watch no matter how much they whine or pretend they don't watch, and the real bulk of the sport's viewership is made of people who aren't cynical children who propose, honestly, the worst loving ideas i've ever heard. the casual viewer gives even less of a poo poo about greenwashing bullshit than the hardcore audience the only people it could conceivably impress is some imaginary audience that was thought up in some shareholder's head
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Mar 19, 2016 14:57
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I watched pretty much every single race between 1989 and 2010, after which I started to tail off. Think I've seen maybe two in the last two seasons? It's really bad.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:02
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Vando posted:I watched pretty much every single race between 1989 and 2010, after which I started to tail off. Think I've seen maybe two in the last two seasons? It's really bad. then the gently caress are you posting in an F1 thread for if you supposedly don't watch or care about the sport
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Mar 19, 2016 15:04
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Vando posted:I watched pretty much every single race between 1989 and 2010, after which I started to tail off. Think I've seen maybe two in the last two seasons? It's really bad. Interesting that you made it through the 00-04 era, which was arguably the most predictable in terms of outcomes, but only surrendered after the Vettelsreich began. What was the difference for you?
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Mar 19, 2016 15:04
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The Renaults are ugly. This is about as much controversy as i can be bothered to get into.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:07
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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honestly i don't think the real audience is falling, i think the measured audience is falling because F1 is in the exact same boat as literally everything that's been disrupted by the internet, only the inherent corruption in FOM has meant they've kept making their money through traditional broadcast means just a bit longer than most. you can't say viewership is falling when you don't make the race available to those who want to watch digitally and don't measure the audience that's pirating the race. what motivation does FOM have to increase viewership when they can lose viewers and still make more TV money each year?
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Mar 19, 2016 15:07
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Triple A - You really don't believe that this sport is currently being massively subsidised by the manufacturers using it as a research platform for hybrid road cars do you? Or that teams like Manor and Hass are also subsidised by the manufacturers in other ways. Your version of f1 has 4 of the current teams in it and no major sponsors apart from Red Bull who would be perfectly happy to keep pushing for the return of V12s so that they can be the onl...oh wait.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:07
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I'm quite excited for the Karting season to start.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:07
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also, please shut the gently caress up about "greenwashing," it's not a loving show, these are a real-life hybrid technologies being used and developed
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Mar 19, 2016 15:14
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Soooo where's that gif at of the Ferrari pit wall when Merc showed their hand?
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Mar 19, 2016 15:19
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GramCracker posted:Soooo where's that gif at of the Ferrari pit wall when Merc showed their hand? I'd also like to see it as I instantly fell asleep as soon as Mercedes had 1 second over the ferrari..
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Mar 19, 2016 15:27
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Trust The Worst Thread to totally melt down after one qualifying session. They'll modify it to something less stupid, and that will be the end of it. We haven't even had one race yet ffs, maybe put your F1 obituaries on hold for a few weeks? If they don't want to go back to the previous quali system I propose: A single hour long session version of the shitshow we had this morning, which would solve a lot of the problems. 22 minutes to set a decent lap, then eliminations every 2 minutes until there's two cars left to battle it out. The eliminations are slightly less rapid fire so there's a bit more time to do an outlap if you're in the danger zone. Teams now have multiple sets of tyres to use over the whole hour so the quick teams don't use theirs up early and can still compete for pole at the end. Also you can start the race on whatever the hell tyres you like.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:30
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1500quidporsche posted:I'd also like to see it as I instantly fell asleep as soon as Mercedes had 1 second over the ferrari.. Vettel's quali time was only .3s slower than Hamilton's and bacony indications from practice are they have better race pace than quali pace. But yeah, it's all over after one quali session and Merc cruise to another two titles... We're also not talking about the real story in quali: namely Toro Rosso beating Red Bull and only being .5s slower than Ferrari with last year's engine.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:33
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mercedes domination is still far more entertaining than red bull domination or early 00s ferrari domination because they actually let their drivers race. i can't for the life of me figure out why this is what will supposedly kill F1, and not the like eight loving seasons in the last 20 years that were a million times worse.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:35
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Tsaedje posted:Vettel's quali time was only .3s slower than Hamilton's and bacony indications from practice are they have better race pace than quali pace. But yeah, it's all over after one quali session and Merc cruise to another two titles... Vettels Q3 time is almost .9s slower than Hamilton's
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Mar 19, 2016 15:39
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be nice wicka posted:mercedes domination is still far more entertaining than red bull domination or early 00s ferrari domination because they actually let their drivers race. i can't for the life of me figure out why this is what will supposedly kill F1, and not the like eight loving seasons in the last 20 years that were a million times worse. actually, it's probably because we didn't have the misleading narrative of declining viewership during the ferrari and red bull eras
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Mar 19, 2016 15:39
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be nice wicka posted:there is a cap on customer engines, it's £12m http://thejudge13.com/2016/03/03/new-cheaper-f1-power-units-a-sham-dnc-030316/ quote:engine package only includes 6 engines and 5 engineers per team; 5 additional engineers required to support the engines, for which manufacturers will charge extra
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Mar 19, 2016 15:39
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can we get this from a source other than "thejudge13" please?
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Mar 19, 2016 15:40
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ukle posted:Vettels Q3 time is almost .9s slower than Hamilton's I brained bad and read Nico's time. Either way, Ferrari are expected to have better race pace than their quali pace. The driving force behind the changes isn't TV viewership, it's track promoters failing to sell tickets because the prices are insane.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:47
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there is no one to blame but FOM
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Mar 19, 2016 16:08
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Odd how when a track promoter booked Taylor Swift and provided content people wanted to see, in addition to the formula 1, thus making the entry fee worth it, the show sold out.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:09
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Also didn't we discuss the salary cap last year or the year before and decide it's pointless because ferrari etc would just charge the engine design to their totally new trust us its a road car programme
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Mar 19, 2016 16:09
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