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Crystalgate posted:That's exactly what people are doing. It does get a bit much though since there's like fifty-eleven guys doing so. Nevertheless, people are doing what you claimed you don't mind. By call out what's stupid, I more meant like "Huh, that's a bit dumb that they would do that." And move on, not go into 4 page long derails about how misogynistic it is to kidnap the wheelchair bound woman that provides Batman with surveillance and electronic support. So, a little of column A and a little of column B it seems.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:24
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I think the thing about the early Riddle rooms/tracks is that Riddler really wants you to see all the stuff he put a lot of good hard work into, all the different robots, the mechanical set ups.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:29
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Acne Rain posted:This wouldn't if Cassandra Cain were Batgirl in these games, then you could do these plots and still have a female associate on the field uncaptured but not involved (except in dlc). Like I know she's obscure they have Azreal asserting his bat family status in these games. (Yes there's other batgirls and stuff but Cass is still my favorite bat family character, just indulge my whining a little here) From what I understand, DC treats Cassandra Cain like Valve treats Half-Life 3.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:44
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:I think the thing about the early Riddle rooms/tracks is that Riddler really wants you to see all the stuff he put a lot of good hard work into, all the different robots, the mechanical set ups. Riddler  The underlying cause and motivation for Nigma's craziness is a pathological need for positive attention that is also really, really screwed up by a history of abuse. The details change in different settings, but Nigma's father basically had a habit of asking him impossible questions, then beating the hell out of him when he couldn't solve them. In most settings, this is because the father is jealous of Nigma's genuine super-genius. Nigma eventually kills Dad and goes out into the world feeling simultaneously worthless and superior to everyone, and comfortable primarily with interaction in those terms, communicated through violence. Batman effectively takes Dad Riddler's place in Eddie's mind. One messy thing with Nigma in the games that isn't really explored in comics or elsewhere is that in the Arkham series, Nigma also cheated in order to solve a puzzle and his father's accusation of cheating was associated with abusing him. Arkham Nigma also routinely "cheats" in setting up traps he thinks are impossible for Batman to solve. In the games, Arkham Nigma also accuses Batman of cheating once the tide begins to turn and he becomes terrified of losing. In the games and in most media, Nigma is simultaneously reliving his childhood abuse at Batman's hands, and unknowingly filling his father's role in proving his superiority through puzzles. He's completely crippled mentally-despite it being pretty routinely demonstrated that Riddler is in fact one of if not the smartest, most capable characters in the ingame universe. It's a pretty great example of the weird, horrible character and mental illness synergies that are at the core of some of the strongest character writing in the Batman setting. Batman villains, at their best, are usually capable of normal or even exceptional life if it weren't for mental problems, usually stemming from past external trauma. In interacting with Batman(who is usually a stable counterpoint), the characters embody and demonstrate these roles, and respond to their defeat by either (very rarely, because comics) becoming self-aware and changing course, or by becoming much much worse by reliving the things that already hurt them. The same phenomenon happens in reverse with non-villain characters. It's almost like Batman is a genre of setting-specific speculative fiction. Hobgoblin2099 posted:From what I understand, DC treats Cassandra Cain like Valve treats Half-Life 3. More like how Valve treats Ricochet, and with similarly good reason. Almost nobody knows it, and the ones who do don't like it. Frankly I'm surprised they included Asreal for the same reasons, but even after they modified the heck out of him he's still one of the weakest points.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:21
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Clearly you are deranged, Ricochet is awesome and perfect. I'm going to join the groaning at the women being useless and / or motivation group but honestly I'd have overlooked that and given the game far more chances if only they hadn't brought Joker back just after killing him. SIGSEGV fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 00:24
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Dscruff be a dear and show off the easter egg in the last riddler puzzle room at the orphanage, it's my favorite thing in the game.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:29
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SIGSEGV posted:Clearly you are deranged, Ricochet is awesome and perfect. 
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Mar 19, 2016 00:33
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That's the stuff alright.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:40
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:From what I understand, DC treats Cassandra Cain like Valve treats Half-Life 3. It's more like Nintendo and Samus post other m
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Mar 19, 2016 01:16
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I wonder if there's going to be a payoff with the alignments of the key-cages so far being D, T, and E.
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Mar 19, 2016 02:13
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Grapplejack posted:Dscruff be a dear and show off the easter egg in the last riddler puzzle room at the orphanage, it's my favorite thing in the game. I can't seem to find it on youtube Got a link?
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Mar 19, 2016 06:43
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Vicissitude posted:I can't seem to find it on youtube Got a link? I'm not finding it either but there's a little back and forth between batman and catwoman if you keep dodging the blades after you've finished the puzzle as catwoman. It's not much, but her delivery is pretty goofy.
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Mar 19, 2016 07:08
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Ah. Not that big, but hopefully we'll see it when Scruffy gets there.
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Mar 19, 2016 07:21
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Someone should send all these problematic villains to sensitivity training the next time the Bat sticks them in Arkham. I mean, they're obviously not good people at all! Also, I've had enough of the Riddler's poo poo, I will never collect his trinkets and gewgaws; collectibles artificially increase game length and unless that cheevo permanently unlocks an in-game benefit, I have no desire to get them. I've beaten the game long ago. I am aware of what happens when you get them all, I just don't care.
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Mar 19, 2016 09:45
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I like them, gives me an excuse to glide around the city and beat up thugs while looking for them.
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Mar 19, 2016 09:47
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Someone should send all these problematic villains to sensitivity training the next time the Bat sticks them in Arkham. I mean, they're obviously not good people at all! Honestly, the real problem with Gotham is that it doesn't have the death penalty. I mean sure, you can debate it's necessities for our society, which is lucky enough to have prisons that actually ARE strong enough to keep in even the most deadly criminals......but in this world? I don't know just how liberal you'd have to be to NOT sentence Joker to death after like, the 18th time he's broken out of Arkham. The problem isn't that Batman's too soft, the problem is that Gotham's too stupid  .
Fionordequester fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 09:49
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Can't have death penalty if you want to keep selling comic books.
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Mar 19, 2016 09:51
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I think at some point in the comics they tried to give joker the death penalty but batman stopped it. I think the explanation why nobody gets the death penalty is that most Arkham villains are either really insane or they can bribe the judges to get an insanity plead or something lesser. Plus the court probably doesent respect the police enough to protect them from getting murdered if they give a death penalty to some mobster.
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Mar 19, 2016 09:53
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Due to the nature of comics Joker doesn't actually escape that often, 99% of the times he did have been wiped from the bizarre floating timeline and a good 70% of the times left he's not captured but "we never found a body" loopholed.
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Mar 19, 2016 10:00
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warburg posted:Isnt Batmans motivation for dealing with the Riddler's puzzles based on Nigma keeping Catwoman captive? Why would he allow her to potentially die early with allowing batman to choose the key thing? Unless he considers her death a sign of his superior intellect. akulanization posted:You know it would have been a kinda cool plot for one of these games to have a villain threaten to destroy the city on the same night Riddler wanted to prove his superiority over Batman. And Nigma had Batman tell him to bother him later, so he goes and directs his hostages in foiling the other villain's scheme so that Batman is forced to pay attention to the riddles instead. Just have Batman go around completing challenges and every time he does Riddler gets Robin/Nightwing/Catwoman/whoever to take the next step in The Riddler's Patented Fool-Proof City Saving Scheme. Heck it would even make sense, he'd be proving himself smarter than Batman by killing him with a clever challenge, and better than Batman by doing his own job more quickly and efficiently.
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Mar 19, 2016 12:45
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Acne Rain posted:This wouldn't if Cassandra Cain were Batgirl in these games, then you could do these plots and still have a female associate on the field uncaptured but not involved (except in dlc). Like I know she's obscure they have Azreal asserting his bat family status in these games. (Yes there's other batgirls and stuff but Cass is still my favorite bat family character, just indulge my whining a little here)  Cassandra Batgirl Best Batgirl. Discendo Vox posted:More like how Valve treats Ricochet, and with similarly good reason. Almost nobody knows it, and the ones who do don't like it. Frankly I'm surprised they included Asreal for the same reasons, but even after they modified the heck out of him he's still one of the weakest points. I don't think people hate Cassandra Cain if they know who she is. Hate how she's been treated, maybe, but not the character herself.
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Mar 19, 2016 13:50
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Tiggum posted:Really, Batman should just call his bluff. Riddler has no motivation to actually carry out the threat if Batman's already stopped playing, because it's not like killing Catwoman is going to get him to come back. But Riddler should also realise that he doesn't need bait to lure Batman, these games have repeatedly shown that Batman will play Riddler's games even when there are absolutely no stakes. It's not a bluff, though. Catwoman is only useful to Riddler as bait, and if she's insufficient bait, she's worthless to him anyway. If Batman doesn't play along he'll kill Catwoman to show Batman he's serious, and then he'll find someone else and hold them hostage, and if Batman still doesn't play along he'll kill them too. Riddler would go on a bloody murder spree if Batman ignored him, because he knows that's the exact thing that would motivate Batman. It's not like Riddler's gonna be buddies with Catwoman after this even if he lets her go, either, so what's the motivation not to go through with it?
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Mar 19, 2016 14:39
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if the riddler didnt kidnap catwoman or someone else batman would just ignore him because he has better things to do. in arkham city riddler kidpanpped some police officers to motivate batman too. only reason there isnt a timer to solve all the riddles is because i doupt anyone wants to deal with a timer in a game like this.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:44
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I feel like Bats would deal with Riddler just because he's there. Catwoman's right that they're both traumatized people dealing with their psychological problems in tremendously weird (and unhealthy) ways. I imagine Bats is pretty happy to have at least one villain who tends to offer more elaborate and mind-based problems instead of fisticuffs and probably would actually enjoy dealing with Nigma without the hostages.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:50
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i doupt the riddlers patient enough to wait for batman to come solve his riddles on batmans spare time.
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Mar 19, 2016 14:58
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Iretep posted:i doupt the riddlers patient enough to wait for batman to come solve his riddles on batmans spare time. Have you seen the Arkham City LP? That's basically exactly what he does.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:03
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Felinoid posted:It's not like Riddler's gonna be buddies with Catwoman after this even if he lets her go, either, so what's the motivation not to go through with it? Iretep posted:if the riddler didnt kidnap catwoman or someone else batman would just ignore him because he has better things to do. in arkham city riddler kidpanpped some police officers to motivate batman too.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:04
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If the Riddler is replacing all of his thugs with robots, why do Riddler Informants still exist?
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Mar 19, 2016 16:21
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Tiggum posted:Just why even bother actually making a real explosive collar when you don't need to? If it's not even real then he gets the added satisfaction of revealing that after Batman jumps through his hoops. This would've been the best twist. "AHAHAHA! A primitive brain like yours can only ever think in threats of violence, can't it? Of course I predicted this, and instead used my subtle and exquisite intellect to present a threat that would cause you to mistake me for another one of the knuckle-dragging Neanderthals this cesspit of a city calls supervillains."
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Mar 19, 2016 16:24
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Nihilarian posted:If the Riddler is replacing all of his thugs with robots, why do Riddler Informants still exist? Someone had to get the robot parts, man. You think Riddler's going to Home Depot to get all that stuff?
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Mar 19, 2016 16:34
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Riddler informants have never really been 'thugs' for the Riddler anyway, they're ears and eyes into the other gangs.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:35
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Nihilarian posted:If the Riddler is replacing all of his thugs with robots, why do Riddler Informants still exist? I think you answered your own question. Humanoid robots are kinda too obvious for intelligence gathering. Actually now that I think about it, is the militia giving Nigma any intel? Since supposedly the Riddler is on Team Scarecrow (even if he is doing his own thing).
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Mar 19, 2016 16:38
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Zero grinder posted:I think you answered your own question. Humanoid robots are kinda too obvious for intelligence gathering. I suddenly really want to see one of Riddler's robots try and blend in with a pack of thugs. "Hey, Benny, this is our new recruit for The Penguin. His name's Totally A. Human." "Bzzrt. What's the difference between Batman and a chimp? Bzzrt. One is capable of basic menial tasks and the other is Batman. Bzzrt."
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Mar 19, 2016 16:46
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Iretep posted:I think at some point in the comics they tried to give joker the death penalty but batman stopped it. I think the explanation why nobody gets the death penalty is that most Arkham villains are either really insane or they can bribe the judges to get an insanity plead or something lesser. Plus the court probably doesent respect the police enough to protect them from getting murdered if they give a death penalty to some mobster. Considering how frequently they escape, and how some of them have killed hundreds, or even thousands of people, a large percentage of whom are law enforcement, it's surprising that none of them have been killed during an "escape attempt" shortly after being dropped off by Batman at a police station. "Yup, the Joker went for Joe's gun, so we had no choice but to shoot him 56 times in the back. Seems the security cameras were broken, so there's no footage of the incident, but all twenty of us police officers who were there will give our sworn testimony that that's what happened."
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Mar 19, 2016 16:51
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Discendo Vox posted:One messy thing with Nigma in the games that isn't really explored in comics or elsewhere is that in the Arkham series, Nigma also cheated in order to solve a puzzle and his father's accusation of cheating was associated with abusing him. Arkham Nigma also routinely "cheats" in setting up traps he thinks are impossible for Batman to solve. In the games, Arkham Nigma also accuses Batman of cheating once the tide begins to turn and he becomes terrified of losing. It varies from story to story whether or not he actually cheated at the puzzle or not (he got beaten for it either way) but while most of his origin stories imply that he did cheat, my personal favorite was the one where he solved the puzzle legitimately but his father beat him so savagely that he convinced himself he must have cheated because otherwise why would his dad hurt him for it? The puzzle thing happened in I think either late elementary school or early middle school - he was just a little kid. Eddie's been made to feel worthless his entire life while simultaneously knowing that he really is usually the smartest person in the room. That's also why I don't really like Batman's explanation for "What's Eddie's problem?" Narcissism isn't his problem. His problem is an inferiority complex big enough to blot out the sun, which he covers up by acting like he's better than everybody else. Nobody hates Edward Nigma more than Edward Nigma does. It's also debatable whether or not he ever killed his father. In this ultra-violent incarnation? Yeah probably. In most incarnations? He left home as soon as he turned 18 and hasn't interacted with his father since because even as an adult criminal, he's still dead loving scared of him. CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 16:59
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:I suddenly really want to see one of Riddler's robots try and blend in with a pack of thugs.
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Mar 19, 2016 17:04
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IBlameRoadSuess posted:Have you seen the Arkham City LP? That's basically exactly what he does. i think i already said 99% of people would probably hate to have a timer on all the riddler things. do you really want a timer for the kidnapping to make sense? please dont tell me youre that 1%. youre "supposed" to be on a strict timer for most of these missions but since this is a game and people hate being in a hurry to do things so theres no timer. basically the entire plot is the whole city has turned to hell and batman has only one night to fix it all. but in practice we have all the time we need since this is a game. riddlers kidnappins make perfect sense if you consider the fact that batman is in a hurry and riddler doesent want to wait.
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Mar 19, 2016 17:07
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Just once, I would like Batman to just say to Eddie, you're right you are the smartest person alive and I can't figure out your traps. And then what would the Riddler do?
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Mar 19, 2016 17:08
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"Best of three, Batman!" I don't think he actually wants to win, it's just what he has to do whenever he plans a crime.
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Mar 19, 2016 17:10
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Tiggum posted:Just why even bother actually making a real explosive collar when you don't need to? If it's not even real then he gets the added satisfaction of revealing that after Batman jumps through his hoops. If Riddler reveals that there was no threat after Batman wins (which is also a contingency and not Plan A), then it weakens all future threats he makes, because they might be fake too. It would needlessly hamstring himself to do so, as funny as that might be. Tiggum posted:Yeah, and it was unnecessary there as well, because Batman canonically does solve all the riddles and collect all the trophies even though most of them aren't linked to any threat. He even goes out of his way to interrogate the Riddler's men to find them all. Batman is clearly going to play along with the Riddler either way. They are linked to the threat. In City (and Origins, I think?) you need X amount of riddles solved to get to the next hostage, and then 100% (or something near that) to get to Riddler himself. Same thing back in Asylum, where you needed to get all the Riddler stuff to find where he was and send police to arrest him. Interrogating the Riddler's men also is not "out of his way", it's a way to find out where the trophies and riddles are quicker so he can save hostages faster, because goddamn he's always got like 15 things on his plate at a time in these games. Batman is not interested in playing the game, he is interested in saving lives. The Riddler knows this, so he takes hostages, making the game necessary to save lives. This is why Batman plays along, and finds shortcuts where he can to get done with it, because the only thing he gives a poo poo about are the people who would be hurt if Nigma isn't locked up. The riddles, while fun for the player, are just busywork for Batman to get to his true objective. ponzicar posted:Considering how frequently they escape, and how some of them have killed hundreds, or even thousands of people, a large percentage of whom are law enforcement, it's surprising that none of them have been killed during an "escape attempt" shortly after being dropped off by Batman at a police station. "Yup, the Joker went for Joe's gun, so we had no choice but to shoot him 56 times in the back. Seems the security cameras were broken, so there's no footage of the incident, but all twenty of us police officers who were there will give our sworn testimony that that's what happened." As logical as that is, one of the first things that Batman and Gordon did together was root out all the corrupt cops, and they did it in a way that sent a message. Any cop taking justice into their own hands would find themselves on the wrong end of a life sentence about two minutes after Batman went into detective mode at the crime scene, no matter how thoroughly they cleaned up. Still, one life for all the lives that someone like Joker would end? Probably worth it.
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Mar 19, 2016 17:14
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