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bongwizzard posted:It is also easy to wander into monsters that need a hard counter and wipe before you know what is going on. It is also harder to fight a mage past like level 6-7 with being a wizard/accountant multclass. But that's every game that's even slightly open world, that's not uncommon. There are a few bits in both BG games where as a lower HP character someone can initiate conversation with you and instakill you but once you know about it, it's easily got around. I'd just associate that with older game design rather than the game itself being difficult.
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Mar 18, 2016 16:36
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gender illusionist posted:has anyone ever told you that you come across as a massive arsehole? because you do Yes, people get upset when it's made clear that they're wrong. It's a common failing.
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Mar 18, 2016 17:29
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Hey goons, I was wondering if you guys had any recommendations for mods for Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition? I picked it up since SoD is coming out soon. I played the poo poo out of the original games and was wondering what mods I could add in to spice up the game. I already have stuff like Unfinished Business and the NPC Banter Pack installed. I'm mainly looking for mods that add new stuff to the game like quests or areas since that was the most fun part of the game for me. I know there's a list of compatible mods on the Beamdog forums but I wanted to hear your recommendations since there aren't really that many good reviews out there for various mods.
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Mar 18, 2016 18:17
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Pretty much all the new content mods are, unsurprisingly, bad. This includes Unfinished Business - some of it was obviously cut for reasons of quality.
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Mar 18, 2016 19:04
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Nicaden posted:Hey goons, I was wondering if you guys had any recommendations for mods for Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition? I picked it up since SoD is coming out soon. I played the poo poo out of the original games and was wondering what mods I could add in to spice up the game. I already have stuff like Unfinished Business and the NPC Banter Pack installed. There's also this: http://www.gibberlings3.net/bgqe/ I don't use it anymore myself but it does what it sets out to do. I can't think of anything else I'd describe as actually good. Stone of Askavar isn't bad, and if you're really desperate you could go for the Grey Clan. Arivia posted:Yes, people get upset when it's made clear that they're wrong. It's a common failing. 
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Mar 18, 2016 19:16
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Woolie Wool posted:The counting house fight in TotSC is a very good fight, even if I felt very out of character breaking into a building and slaughtering all the guards just to progress in an important questline. The fact that I forgot to memorize my best CC spells made it even better because I had my squishier characters frantically running around trying not to die. you can do that without breaking in and fighting everyone.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:00
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gender illusionist posted:has anyone ever told you that you come across as a massive arsehole? because you do I feel I should remind everyone that Arivia led the charge to have the 'offensive' limerick removed from Pillars of Eternity. So not just an arsehole but also a hypocrite, demanding to be sheltered from offense while happily abusing others. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 18, 2016 22:24
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ubachung posted:I feel I should remind everyone that Arivia led the charge to have the 'offensive' limerick removed from Pillars of Eternity. So not just an arsehole but also a hypocrite, demanding to be sheltered from offense while happily abusing others. I don't really see the link between being an rear end in a top hat about Forgotten Realms stuff and not wanting a lovely transphobic limerick in PoE. If you think that calling someone an idiot newbie who needs to learn how the game works on an internet forum is functionally equivalent to casual bigotry that parrots stuff that is often used as a justification in literally murdering people, you're dumb. e; vv 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Mar 18, 2016 |
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Mar 18, 2016 23:11
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Lemon-Lime posted:I don't really see the link between being an rear end in a top hat about Forgotten Realms stuff and not wanting a lovely transphobic limerick in PoE. Men not wanting to have sex with other men is not transphobia, hth.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:26
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ubachung posted:I feel I should remind everyone that Arivia led the charge to have the 'offensive' limerick removed from Pillars of Eternity. So not just an arsehole but also a hypocrite, demanding to be sheltered from offense while happily abusing others.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:31
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Wizard Styles posted:I remember that episode as one nobody walked away looking good from, and I can already see history repeating itself. War. War never changes.
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Mar 18, 2016 23:41
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Monks. Oh god. Monks. This was going to be at least a Monks and Barbarians update, possibly with Shamans too. After all, up until now I've been doing the true class version and three kits. Should have been fine. But the stupid overcomplicated history and abilities of these pulpy Bruce Lee knockoffs, and the mess that happened when this interacts with a videogame trying to adapt them just as new management comes in and the tabletop ruleset rolled over, means that this is more  than probably any other two posts I've made about BG vs. paper combined. loving monks.Monks (1e PHB, Dragon #53, Oriental Adventures, Complete Priest, Faiths and Avatars, PO: Spells and Magic, Scarlet Brotherhood, 3e PHB) Some quick historical context BG2 came out just as 3e did, and the addition of PC half-orcs, monks, barbarians, and sorcerors to BG2 as well as to the 3e PHB obviously wasn't a coincidence. That said, the sorceror was the only actually new 3e thing, which younger PnP players and game-only players often overlooked, lumping them all together as 'that 3e stuff'. Barbarians had an entire Complete series book to themselves, half-orc PCs had returned with an (incredibly racist sounding) entry in Complete Humanoids, and Monks were a longstanding class from back before D&D had even decided that an 'Advanced' edition would be a good idea. As far back as the 1e version, monks had been known for that infamous issue of multiple attribute dependency, because they needed Strength, Dexterity, Consitution (especially as they had dire HP dice originally) and Wisdom. At least very few abilities keyed off wisdom, unlike in 3e, so they could keep it at the mandated minimum of 15. Still, they were a pretty crap class, and attempted updates came out in Dragon and Oriental Adventures before they were dropped as just too much of a hassle in 2e. Given how many issues every edition of DnD seems to have with monks, this honestly might have been for the best. While some Cleric kits based around the idea of the unarmed ascetic came out, they were still primarily Clerics with a dash of unarmed skill to bait old monk players. The BG monk remains primarily based on a mixture of the 1e monk, the 2e Scarlet Brotherhood Monk which came out in 1999 and was an obvious attempt to test out a full Monk revival and some new abilities for 3e, and the 3e monk itself. Mechanics Common to all varieties are extra unarmed damage, attacks, and stunning ability, an armour restriction balanced by improved base AC, bonuses against missiles, taking less or 0 fall damage (in tabletop where this matters), fast movement, self healing, immunity to diseases and poisons, and the instakill quivering palm. A pretty decent list of commonalities. When it comes to unarmed damage, BG just follows 3e. The 1e versions as a rule have more generous dice (8d4 or 6d6 by the end of progression, a far cry from our crummy 1d20), but don't give you Strength bonuses to hit or damage what the gently caress who thought this was a good idea. Scarlet Brotherhood caps at a very disappointing 1d12. The extra apr table is very consistent from 1e to 2e to BG, with the only real variation coming with the removal of 1e's use of an extra quarter attack at some points, because that's really dumb. 3e's Flurry of Blows is the big outlier, presumably because that edition radically overhauled extra attacks in the first place. 3e instead gives you the Flurry of Blows ability, which grants you 1 extra attack at your best to-hit bonus, and then penalises that attack and all others you make in the round by -2 to hit. It's a pretty big let down from what you used to be able to do. The original stunning ability in 1e was just that if you easily hit your opponent (5 or more above the necessary die roll) you stunned them, no save. If this procced, you also had a very small chance to instakill them, based on their AC and your level (this mostly hovered at 1% or so). Scarlet Brotherhood made it an actual activated ability with a saving throw. It also retained the instakill aspect -- if the target was stunned and failed another saving throw, with a decent bonus, they just died too. BG's mimics the 3e version, which is just a save check, without any chance to spontaneously cause a heart attack. Presumably due to game limitations, it runs on all attacks in the round, and so we only get it 1/4 levels, not 1/level. Your AC progression in all the 1e versions except Dragon #53 was notoriously shite, which was somehow made worse in Scarlet Brotherhood -- and that's the table BG uses. This is slightly balanced by a more generous HP allowance, but this is one area where BG players got hurt. 3e has an even more moderate AC bonus, but also allows you to get extra AC from Wisdom. Which is nice and all, but fuels the whole problem of depending on four different stats for your character to work. Deflecting missiles like you're an anime character was a simple save check in 1e/2e versions. They keyed off weird saves -- paralysation or petrification -- so items that were meant to stop you getting turned to stone by a basilisk somehow meant you were better at knocking arrows out of the air. In 3e, it was just something you could do to a missile once a round. BG's generic AC bonus is probably the least finicky of them all. 1e Monk healing was pretty anaemic, coming in at 1d4+1 at seventh level, and gaining an extra HP per level gained afterward. Scarlet Brotherhood went with 2HP/level, which both 3e and BG stayed on. Disease and poison immunities have been at levels 5 and 11 from the beginning, and never changed all the way through to 3e. Finally, the ability to set up lethal vibrations in an enemy's body by touching them, one of the most recognisable -- and usually recognisably nerfed and terrible -- abilities of the DnD monk. In BG, this is a 1/day save vs. spell or die on hit ability, which isn't great by the time you get it, but occasionally funny when a boss fails the save. In all tabletop versions, it's a 1/week ability which can't be used on any enemy with a higher level than you, limiting its usefulness quite a bit. I've mostly employed it as a blackmail tool, since once you've hit an enemy, you don't actually kill them. You just get to set off the instant death whenever you feel like it for a period of a day per level, which is pretty funny. Also good for delayed assassinations. In 1e, there is no save against the ability -- the only protection is level and not getting hit -- while Scarlet Brotherhood and 3e thought that was a dumb idea and added the extra defence. Notable points of variance: The ability for hands to strike as magical weapons. You were poo poo out of luck as a 1e PHB monk, and still only went up to counting as +2 for Dragon #53 and Scarlet Brotherhood monks. BG and 3e at least give you a chance. MR was always just some improved saves against certain spell types in 1/2e. BG and 3e again are more generous. The loss of a whole pile of random psionic bullshit after 1e died. The haste immunity, which -- though the Scarlet Brotherhood and BG retained it -- 3e PnP finally got rid of as being way too detrimental to a fighting class. Dragon #53 and 3e give you some extra manoeuvrability by throwing in a Dimension Door ability at mid-high levels, and the ability to astrally project your spirit around near the end of your advancement. Some nice utility, at least. Immunity to normal weapons is a BG and 3e only thing. Occasionally handy, to be sure, but who the gently caress's using nonmagical weapons at level 20? C'mon! Dragon #53 and Scarlet Brotherhood have a gorgeous nightmare for a DM, in that monks are supposed to get a premonition of oncoming lethal danger. Could your monk possibly die in the oncoming fight, or trap, or situation? As this is a dice based game, the possibility is pretty much always there. Welp, got to warn them. Goodbye ambushes forever. Again, who the gently caress thought this was a good idea?
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Mar 19, 2016 00:00
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Lemon-Lime posted:I don't really see the link between being an rear end in a top hat about Forgotten Realms stuff and not wanting a lovely transphobic limerick in PoE. I knew that 'do unto others' would be too difficult a concept for some loving goon. When you're making an argument that words on the internet can actually harm people then maybe you should show some consistency and apply your own principles to how you engage others. Anything less is hypocrisy, and you trying to defend it just makes you look retarded. Edit: Just so this isn't a completely pointless derail I want to say thanks Sleep of Bronze for your ongoing class comparison, it's actually pretty interesting to see.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:57
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Time to not talk about this anymore, thanks everyone!
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Mar 19, 2016 01:07
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Monk Stuff. Thanks for these write ups. It's really interesting seeing all the arbitrary crap that has to eventually coalesce into a at least somewhat workable class. A buddy of mine in possession of 1e DnD books also told me about that fact that a monk could only level when they sought out and beat a monk of that level. I've always had a fondness for monk but they really are an odd man out when it comes to the classes.
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Mar 19, 2016 01:24
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Metal Meltdown posted:Thanks for these write ups. It's really interesting seeing all the arbitrary crap that has to eventually coalesce into a at least somewhat workable class. A buddy of mine in possession of 1e DnD books also told me about that fact that a monk could only level when they sought out and beat a monk of that level. I've always had a fondness for monk but they really are an odd man out when it comes to the classes. It's not every single level, just 7+. Druids have similar problems with levelling up, which I might cover when I get to them. But, yeah, it's a significant issue which the revision article in Dragon #53 had to spend a lot of time trying to improve, including the incredibly uneventful suggestion of "the dude above you just meditated himself into enlightenment and shed his corporeal form, so you get his spot now". Because you lose an entire level's worth of XP if you're defeated in your challenge bout, and have to work you way back up, you could need several times the XP of other characters to hit the proper levels with just a couple of losses. It was a clusterfuck. I have a lot of nostalgia for 2e -- I even still run a heavily houseruled session every so often with mates of mine from back then -- but have to admit it was barely playable RAW, and the editions before were absolutely insane. I kind of get the revivalist groups who put together something with the style of old DnD pegged together with more modern design principles, if that's something they liked, but wanting to actually play an unadulterated 1e game in this day and age boggles my mind. I dunno, people who started in 3e probably look back at me still doing 2e and think I'm bugfuck mad, and the 4ers undoubtedly do the same to them, and so on. I guess you get used to the foibles you're inducted with, and learn to overlook them. You're right about the work done coalescing some of these classes though. Digging up this stuff and rediscovering how full of dumb crap they were has given me a real appreciation for design work like the BG2 Cavalier, which is clear, mostly balanced, and has a nicely resonant concept to it that none of the tabletop versions can touch. That's not to say that there's no cool and interesting stuff in the PnP classes and kits, because there definitely is, things I'd have loved to see adapted and think the game would have been better for. Nor that Bioware never hosed up their ideas or balance, because that obviously happened too. But, in general, ADnD benefited massively from being forced down into a CRPG adaptation and being put through the necessary rethink, with a lot of the extraneous tabletop precedents and excess wiped away. Undoubtedly it also helped that it was a closed system, where the designers knew all the enemies and situations you were going to be put in from the start, and could control them, without worrying about players or a DM or a future book going somewhere unexpected. The original tabletop writers did not get that blessed luxury.
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Mar 19, 2016 02:49
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The UI changes I'm seeing in the Baldur's Gate pre-SOD beta are real ugly and bad.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:05
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You know what? gently caress Durlag's Tower, I'm going straight to the city to fight Sarevok. You can spring difficult combat encounters on me all day, but don't make me wade through this moon logic King's Quest bullshit for something that's not even part of the main quest.
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Mar 19, 2016 04:55
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I did durlags tower three times in total, once as a normal run, again with SCS, and finally in a solo runthough without SCS. I keep thinking I might go do it again sometime as part of my normal questline but I just never do. It's way too obtuse to bother with. That said it's way easier than trials of the luremaster in IWD. But the extra super dungeon in BG2 is a lot better and actually fun to do. I think a big part of why it's crap is that the loot is terrible, the loot in the BG2 dungeon is fantastic. With durlags you can't do it till you're ready to beat the game anyway and it does not make the final fight any easier, and you don't take any loot with you anyway. Unlike the BG2 dungeon where you can do it much earlier and the loot helps a ton, and you can take the stuff with you into throne of baal. Washout fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 19, 2016 |
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Mar 19, 2016 05:18
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Durlag's is surprisingly and tolerably short when you ignore the loot and just beeline to the next floor.
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Mar 19, 2016 05:35
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there is only one way to do the chess battle in Durlags. You bring a bunch of wands of fireball , you creep as far forward as you can without aggroing anything, then you empty your wands into the fog of war. gently caress the chess battle.
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Mar 19, 2016 05:38
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Suspicious posted:Durlag's is surprisingly and tolerably short when you ignore the loot and just beeline to the next floor. But then why bother with it at all?
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Mar 19, 2016 05:40
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To get the Trap Dodger honor in the ironman thread, of course. Then you get to bash Aec'Letec's dumb face in.
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Mar 19, 2016 05:43
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insanityv2 posted:there is only one way to do the chess battle in Durlags. Or have your tanks beeline across the damage squares to the king and end the bullshit ASAP. I ended up skipping Aec'Letec- I didn't have the quest for that dagger, didn't want to fight that thing, and it wasn't like my Paladin was going to bring something that plainly evil with him. The opening cutscene and some other stuff has been posted. It's weirdly skippy, presumably highlights from a GDC presentation http://www.gamespot.com/videos/baldurs-gate-siege-of-dragonspear-opening-cut-scen/2300-6430131/ I'm really hoping that's not Irenicus, because he sounds AWFUL.
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Mar 19, 2016 06:37
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Durlag's Tower is great; what is wrong with you people? I still don't fully understand the door switch level and won't ever bother to, but apart from that the place is really atmospheric and has some of the better fights in BG1. Now the Werewolf Island... insanityv2 posted:there is only one way to do the chess battle in Durlags. Kavak posted:I'm really hoping that's not Irenicus, because he sounds AWFUL.
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Mar 19, 2016 10:16
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Kavak posted:Or have your tanks beeline across the damage squares to the king and end the bullshit ASAP. I ended up skipping Aec'Letec- I didn't have the quest for that dagger, didn't want to fight that thing, and it wasn't like my Paladin was going to bring something that plainly evil with him. What? David Warner has obviously aged but he still sounds awesome.
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Mar 19, 2016 10:34
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Wizard Styles posted:Oh ffs why would they do that? I really hope that's just one or two short cameos at least, but having him show up at all is some fanfic-level poo poo. He kind of has to show up, at the very least at the end when the party is abducted. This is supposed to foreshadow Baldur's Gate II after all. fong posted:What? David Warner has obviously aged but he still sounds awesome. I kind of feel sorry now if that's actually him.
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Mar 19, 2016 10:50
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Ya they got him back for it.
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Mar 19, 2016 11:03
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Yeah, you're right, it makes sense for him to show up in some capacity. But why'd they have one of their characters bring him in? Show him do what he does pursuing his own agenda in parallel to the actual SoD story, that would be no problem for me. But this scene in the trailer makes it look like he's gonna be involved with the main plot, and that just can't end well.
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Mar 19, 2016 11:03
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Wizard Styles posted:Yeah, you're right, it makes sense for him to show up in some capacity. But why'd they have one of their characters bring him in? Show him do what he does pursuing his own agenda in parallel to the actual SoD story, that would be no problem for me. But this scene in the trailer makes it look like he's gonna be involved with the main plot, and that just can't end well. We dont know what Irenicus was researching on before he found about the bhaal spawns. For all we know he was looking for something similar to them all along and was basically roaming to find it. So if he had some bounty on this kind of information out there already and someone calls him for a favor on information like that its not suprising he'd show up to check on it.
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Mar 19, 2016 11:28
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fong posted:What? David Warner has obviously aged but he still sounds awesome. He still has the best voice in all video games, even if he's now 75 instead of 60. The UI changes are still really ugly but drat, that opening narration and Warner's voice have made me at least a little excited for this.
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Mar 19, 2016 11:54
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Yeah the narrator sounds great.
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Mar 19, 2016 12:05
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Woolie Wool posted:You know what? gently caress Durlag's Tower, I'm going straight to the city to fight Sarevok. You can spring difficult combat encounters on me all day, but don't make me wade through this moon logic King's Quest bullshit for something that's not even part of the main quest. Rip Dynaheir, chunked by an extremely rude cultist before you could get killed by Irenicus.
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Mar 19, 2016 12:22
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Kavak posted:Yeah the narrator sounds great. Did David Warner do the narration too? I thought it was the same guy who did sarevok
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Mar 19, 2016 13:46
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fong posted:Did David Warner do the narration too? I thought it was the same guy who did sarevok The narrator is not David Warner, no. David Warner is Irenicus' voice actor. The narrator is Sarevok's VA (Kevin Michael Richardson).
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Mar 19, 2016 13:47
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Haha whoever was playing the game in the huge battle at the end of that video got wrecked. I can't decide if I like the "cel shaded" look they gave everything. The health bars are awful though.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:34
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mitochondritom posted:Haha whoever was playing the game in the huge battle at the end of that video got wrecked. I can't decide if I like the "cel shaded" look they gave everything. The health bars are awful though. If they're gathering any data from Steam they're going to see 99% of users turn both those things off.
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Mar 19, 2016 16:56
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So I kicked him in the head till he was dead! Hahaha
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Mar 19, 2016 17:11
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Woolie: 1 Sarevok: 0 Holy poo poo prebuffing is massively OP in this game. I had been hoarding potions and scrolls for the entire game and just put 5 or 6 buffs on each character and steamrolled Sarevok. The son of a bitch didn't even stand a chance. I'm thinking of jumping straight into BG2 instead of waiting for Dragonspear. Any suggestions for BG2:EE mods besides BG2Tweaks?
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Mar 19, 2016 17:27
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Woolie Wool posted:Woolie: 1 If it's your first time through, not really. There is a poo poo ton of content in BG2. The second act probably has more content than all BG1 by itself if you're thorough about the side quests. Word of warning, don't get on the boat until you're done with the mainland. Anything with a timer gets put on pause so you won't fail any quests, but it will be a while until you can resume them.
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Mar 19, 2016 17:36
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