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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Noble savages are racist and boring, a real winner. How is it racist? Orcs aren't real.
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Mar 20, 2016 09:42
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CJ posted:How is it racist? Orcs aren't real. Oh god no. Don't start this.
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Mar 20, 2016 09:44
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Steve2911 posted:Oh god no. Don't start this.
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Mar 20, 2016 09:52
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Eh, the thing about the Orcs in WoW is that they've been outed as less "Noble Savages who were cruelly corrupted to kill The Other" and more "Naturally violent assholes because they evolved on a world full of deadly poo poo and thus doesn't take much to convince them that The Other are gonna be #7,493,432,401 Thing That Is Gearing Up To Kill You".
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Mar 20, 2016 10:01
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MisterBibs posted:Eh, the thing about the Orcs in WoW is that they've been outed as less "Noble Savages who were cruelly corrupted to kill The Other" and more "Naturally violent assholes because they evolved on a world full of deadly poo poo and thus doesn't take much to convince them that The Other are gonna be #7,493,432,401 Thing That Is Gearing Up To Kill You". so then why are the orcs brown now when everything from wc1 to wc3 showed them as green
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Mar 20, 2016 12:25
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like is it worse that the huge muscular savages with underbites are now brown-skinned? it seems that way to me
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Mar 20, 2016 12:25
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The orcs in Warcraft could be a stereotype of any sort of pre-civilization human tribe anywhere in the world that use to exist. Orcs are actually more in line with pre-civilization European tribes. A lot of their lore has obvious ancient Germanic religion inspiration.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:09
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If you wanna get into something really racist, let's talk about trolls...
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Mar 20, 2016 13:41
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Corrode posted:If you wanna get into something really racist, let's talk about trolls... Uh, trolls are fictional and therefore can't be racist.
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Mar 20, 2016 13:42
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MisterBibs posted:These were mandatory if you were going to have a "new bad guy comes in, both sides need to work together" storyline that 3 had. More on a pretentious note, there was a shift from "These guys are the Incorruptible Good Guys, these guys are the Devilish Bad Guys" theme in gaming and (arguably) in most media at that time. this reminds me that i thought the teaser for wc3 was about aliens invading (what turned out to be infernals were falling from the sky and were like living asteroids) and it woulda been cool to have an outside context problem and that's why the big bad orcs and noble humans teame dup. sorry turns out it's just demons lmao
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Mar 20, 2016 14:21
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Groovelord Neato posted:this reminds me that i thought the teaser for wc3 was about aliens invading (what turned out to be infernals were falling from the sky and were like living asteroids) and it woulda been cool to have an outside context problem and that's why the big bad orcs and noble humans teame dup.
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Mar 20, 2016 14:27
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A Buttery Pastry posted:In Warcraft, demons are aliens. Actually, the Draenei are the aliens in WoW lore.
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Mar 20, 2016 14:32
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A Buttery Pastry posted:In Warcraft, demons are aliens. you know what the gently caress i mean when i mean aliens. not dudes that look like hell demons (also daemons have been in the games since 1). I said come in! posted:Actually, the Draenei are the aliens in WoW lore. oh dear lord don't remind me of that bullshit.
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Mar 20, 2016 14:38
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I said come in! posted:Actually, the Draenei are the aliens in WoW lore. Groovelord Neato posted:you know what the gently caress i mean when i mean aliens. not dudes that look like hell demons (also daemons have been in the games since 1).
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Mar 20, 2016 14:43
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no like i said i thought the infernals were aliens. the draenei bullshit is so dumb why didn't they make the cool monster ones playable instead of retconning them into looking like Eredar for some reason???
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Mar 20, 2016 15:09
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...The Legion are still aliens. Orcs are also aliens. Do you literally mean you wanted a race of Infernals? Because that's not really much different to what we got.
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Mar 20, 2016 15:51
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holy poo poo
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Mar 20, 2016 16:26
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Steve2911 posted:...The Legion are still aliens. I haven't played WC3 in forever but I'm pretty sure the point he's trying to make is that the Orcs/Infernals/Legion/Draenei may technically qualify as aliens but the way they look and act they feel as if they may as well be a species native to the planet anyway.
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Mar 20, 2016 16:53
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MisterBibs posted:Eh, the thing about the Orcs in WoW is that they've been outed as less "Noble Savages who were cruelly corrupted to kill The Other" and more "Naturally violent assholes because they evolved on a world full of deadly poo poo and thus doesn't take much to convince them that The Other are gonna be #7,493,432,401 Thing That Is Gearing Up To Kill You". See, that seems like a better way to do things. It's nice when people doing fantasy or sci-fi stuff try to make nonhuman sentient species at least slightly non-human. Still would be better if they were just straight up 40K Orks though.
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Mar 20, 2016 17:04
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Thompsons posted:I haven't played WC3 in forever but I'm pretty sure the point he's trying to make is that the Orcs/Infernals/Legion/Draenei may technically qualify as aliens but the way they look and act they feel as if they may as well be a species native to the planet anyway. No, it's because "alien" is coded as "high tech society" in pop culture. Maybe the orcs aren't as distinct but everyone else is either Medieval/Steampunk Europe or Shamanistic Natives. That's a pretty big difference between how the Burning Legion is depicted. (Though the funny part is that the Draenei as of WoW *are* a high tech society, since they have generation ships and all that jazz)
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Mar 20, 2016 17:09
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computer parts posted:(Though the funny part is that the Draenei as of WoW *are* a high tech society, since they have generation ships and all that jazz) There's some actual effort to portray the Draeni as actual, straight up magic aliens. Who used to live on the same planet that the Orcs are from, which is named after them, but which they actually fled to from another world. I've lost track of what their relationship to the Orcs before the Legion corrupted them currently was like. (Talking about Warcraft lore: a creative exercise in tense choice).
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Mar 20, 2016 18:24
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computer parts posted:No, it's because "alien" is coded as "high tech society" in pop culture. Maybe the orcs aren't as distinct but everyone else is either Medieval/Steampunk Europe or Shamanistic Natives. That's a pretty big difference between how the Burning Legion is depicted. you can have low tech aliens like zergs or tyranids. the burning legion are just demons from hell so it doesn't really qualify as alien to me (as they're part of the same world already just another dimension like the orcs). in my mind i didn't think the aliens would necessarily be some high tech society (since their shock troops fell from the sky as living asteroids) i just thought it would be something outside of the current universe - the burning legion were there from the beginning once they filled in the backstory. in stories with demons i don't consider them aliens since they always exist in that world just in some adjacent plane. the draenei retcon was terrible as are all blizzard retcons.
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Mar 20, 2016 18:59
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Groovelord Neato posted:you can have low tech aliens like zergs or tyranids. the burning legion are just demons from hell so it doesn't really qualify as alien to me (as they're part of the same world already just another dimension like the orcs). in my mind i didn't think the aliens would necessarily be some high tech society (since their shock troops fell from the sky as living asteroids) i just thought it would be something outside of the current universe - the burning legion were there from the beginning once they filled in the backstory. in stories with demons i don't consider them aliens since they always exist in that world just in some adjacent plane. That's quite the technicality to be upset about.
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Mar 20, 2016 19:01
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that's not a technicality. it's like saying the thing and the exorcist are about the same type of entity.
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Mar 20, 2016 19:02
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Groovelord Neato posted:that's not a technicality. it's like saying the thing and the exorcist are about the same type of entity. They are, but primarily in really broad ways which boil down to both being about something from beyond this world. But both of those are discreet creative works which committed to a thematic paradigm. Metzen basically mashes thematic elements together like a toddler painting.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:you can have low tech aliens like zergs or tyranids. the burning legion are just demons from hell so it doesn't really qualify as alien to me (as they're part of the same world already just another dimension like the orcs). in my mind i didn't think the aliens would necessarily be some high tech society (since their shock troops fell from the sky as living asteroids) i just thought it would be something outside of the current universe - the burning legion were there from the beginning once they filled in the backstory. in stories with demons i don't consider them aliens since they always exist in that world just in some adjacent plane.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:24
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Greys are basically the same as fairies/elves.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:27
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FreudianSlippers posted:Greys are basically the same as fairies/elves.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:29
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What does "same world just another dimension" mean? The orcs had already been established as coming from another world than humans by the time Warcraft 3 came out. It was established in Warcraft I.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:33
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What does "same world just another dimension" mean? The orcs had already been established as coming from another world than humans by the time Warcraft 3 came out. do you think the concept of heaven and hell are akin to other planets.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:33
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If they do a Tides of Darkness movie I hope they get everyone from Black Sails to play all the humans on the ships.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:35
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Groovelord Neato posted:do you think the concept of heaven and hell are akin to other planets.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:38
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Technically the orcs entering Azeroth makes them aliens. Not commenting on the other races in Warcraft lore, don't feel like going there right now.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:44
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He wants them to be monsters from outer space instead of monsters from hell. Weird but we don't really need to argue about whether or not he thinks that's cool.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:46
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Tender Bender posted:He wants them to be monsters from outer space instead of monsters from hell. Weird but we don't really need to argue about whether or not he thinks that's cool.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:50
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Tender Bender posted:He wants them to be monsters from outer space instead of monsters from hell. Weird but we don't really need to argue about whether or not he thinks that's cool. I apologize in advance if i've lost the conversation here, i'm just sticking to what I know from the games that is being copied over to the movie or seems to be anyways. The orcs live on a world that was pretty nice but it was destroyed by some meanies. There's actually two version though, that's like the WoW version I think? In Warcraft I the humans go through this portal to the orcs world, they don't understand the orcs and decide to wipe out a small village of them, causing the orcs to come through to Azeroth for revenge.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:52
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in the original (better) story the orcs came from outland which was a sorta hosed up dimension. draenor wasn't a thing.
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Mar 20, 2016 20:57
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Looks good to me  I'm rooting for the green Klingons
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Mar 20, 2016 21:02
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I said come in! posted:I apologize in advance if i've lost the conversation here, i'm just sticking to what I know from the games that is being copied over to the movie or seems to be anyways. The orcs live on a world that was pretty nice but it was destroyed by some meanies. There's actually two version though, that's like the WoW version I think? In Warcraft I the humans go through this portal to the orcs world, they don't understand the orcs and decide to wipe out a small village of them, causing the orcs to come through to Azeroth for revenge. Huh I didn't realize they were retconning as early as Warcraft II. In that one the orcs came from a dead red world and massacred the other people, the draenei, and Gul'dan worked to open the portal to Azeroth to give them something else to conquer.
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Mar 20, 2016 21:18
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What does Blizzard hope to accomplish with a bad CGI movie seven years too late?
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Mar 20, 2016 21:22
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