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Crumpet posted:This isn't true at all unless you're doing early heroic HFC stuff. A single gently caress up on a crucial mechanic (like your egg example) will cost you the entire fight in most of the latter parts of BRF and HFC, except it's just not so obvious as 'WELP ONLY GOT 15 PEOPLE? YOU'RE DEAD'. Yeah but the problem is you seem to be comparing high difficulty modes in WoW (unless I'm missreading the underlined part) to literally the only available option for seeing Wildstar raid content. If half your raid can't hit movement buttons and dps rotations inside the same minute because their mental gear shift needs its clutch repaired, you can just do LFR or something instead of just not doing anything at all. Of course the funny part is that in my experience, it's the poo poo tier players that bailed from our guild for not progressing enough, and the 5-6 core players who've been together since the first expansion were left trying to fill gaps with strangers or just hit LFR as a unit. We always had two tanks, 2-3 healers and 1 good dps ready to go who always stuck around because we were good friends outside WoW. Being on your old guild voice chat and making fun of LFR scrubs had some appeal. Of course my core raid group was, with my exception, all aged 30+ (I guess pushing 40 now) with families, and/or demanding careers so I guess none of us were super emotionally invested in playing the highest available difficulty, and we had had sufficient opportunities to interact with one another like actual human beings, making the raid climate very pleasant. Even if I'd trust every one of them to be good enough, we just wanted to see the cool bosses and zones, so LFR was a net positive for my guild of friends when it was introduced.  In Wildstar we'd just be hosed unless we managed to recruit a lot of new people who were good enough or somehow merged into a bigger guild. Rhymenoserous posted:When doing it with the alt guild full of smart people, I thought this fight was a hilarious blast, I thought it was fun dodging lasers while doing DPS. When doing it with our guild composed of half smarty mans, and half "Dads playing video games" it was super stressful. . My dad turned 60 last year and he has raided all current WoW content in normal modes as main healer or tank  I imagine Wildstars general aesthetic might turn him off and he'd probably not have the patience for Wildstar instances.Of course my dad has the introspection not to inflict himself on your raid group if he cannot manage the mechanics because of his reaction times or whatever. But years of video-gaming outside of WoW have kept him pretty sharp. Of course my dad is a crazy person who has been leveling and gearing like 3 different Paladins since WoW launched. He hasn't let his subscription lapse once in all those years. It's all paladins all the time with him. Also he plays with a trackball which is just loving insanity to me but somehow he makes it work?? I can barely imagine playing WoW with trackball, I imagine that'd immediately be a gigantic hurdle for a Wildstar boss fight. Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 12:25
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quote:CF group PvE queues, no. You can't make a filter that those who don't care about the story won't abuse to make CF queues the only ones to pop up. quote:Factions is what keeping the spirit, the twist of the game! What are you playing? Hello kitty online? No! It's Wildstar.
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Mar 17, 2016 14:13
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I love how Dominion has always had a big neon sign reading "GARBAGE PEOPLE GO HERE" pointing to it. 
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Mar 17, 2016 14:39
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Psykmoe posted:Yeah but the problem is you seem to be comparing high difficulty modes in WoW (unless I'm missreading the underlined part) to literally the only available option for seeing Wildstar raid content. Heroic is what normal used to be called in mop and below. Flex became normal, and old Heroic became Mythic. Current heroic content in wow is not really a high difficulty mode - it's the 'you have a dedicated raid group' mode (normal is the 'random people' mode, and mythic is the ballbusting stuff).
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Mar 17, 2016 14:59
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Let me start from the very scratch. You may hate me for this post but I have to voice my opinion and to be seen by lore devs. I love, I deeply LOVE Pappy and whole lore team. But theres an issue they developed themselves. Lore is great, its cool its interesting, entertaining involving but... Its also very-very-very sad tragic and bloody for 12+ rate. Dominion does not appeals to players because...Because they kill and look like a bunch of nazi lore wise. OFCOURSE lore is lot DEEPER but from the first sight it looks perfectly like a scary and amoral faction. I tried to level up dommie character but I cant, I literally cant force myself to kill innocent so often. Fancy looking Wildstar is a very...Interesting mmo. Lore itself is a goddamn horror story. Can you just agree that theres a LOT of blood in here. So basically if you want ppl to join dominion make them atleast a little bit more nice. And for the gods sake you can hate me, but you can perfectly realise that I am sort of right in field that lore adds a little too much dark colors this is great but it creates strong wall between factions in ppl's minds
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Mar 17, 2016 19:08
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They're only considering dissolving the faction system now? It's such a dated and unnecessary gameplay mechanic, and should've been thrown out years ago. I suppose that like many of Wildstar's poor design choices, it was chosen because World of Warcraft has it.
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Mar 17, 2016 19:48
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Thank you for reading the wildstar forums/subreddit so I don't have to.Mizuti posted:They're only considering dissolving the faction system now? It's such a dated and unnecessary gameplay mechanic, and should've been thrown out years ago. I suppose that like many of Wildstar's poor design choices, it was chosen because World of Warcraft has it. It opens up whole new vistas of erotic roleplay, and as near as I can tell the roleplayers and the hardcore raiders are the only folks who stuck around.
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Mar 17, 2016 19:55
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Most people seem to be in favor of dropping the faction walls, which a few exceptions.quote:I dont like the Idear of dropping Faction Barrier, im not interrestet in playing with chuas. Well, poo poo. Checkmate, Wildstar.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:04
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Dividing your player base in two in a dying genre will always be a bad idea. The only reasons it worked for WoW is because it has a huge player base and there are a significant number of people who actually give a poo poo about the story/setting (shocking but true!) Has there been any theme park MMO other than WoW that has done this that hasn't failed to some degree? I guess Rift lasted a decent amount of time.
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Mar 18, 2016 00:42
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The Moon Monster posted:Dividing your player base in two in a dying genre will always be a bad idea. The only reasons it worked for WoW is because it has a huge player base and there are a significant number of people who actually give a poo poo about the story/setting (shocking but true!) WoW also had 3 full games wroth of story to build a following, people would roll horde/alliance because they like playing them in the rts games. Wildstar made 8 jabroni races out of thin air, one side rednecks, the other Nazis and said there rage war across the galaxy but the entire game will take place on this single planet.
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Mar 18, 2016 01:05
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Cyron posted:WoW also had 3 full games wroth of story to build a following, people would roll horde/alliance because they like playing them in the rts games. Yeah, that's what I was getting at when I said people cared about the lore.
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Mar 18, 2016 01:13
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The Moon Monster posted:Has there been any theme park MMO other than WoW that has done this that hasn't failed to some degree? I guess Rift lasted a decent amount of time. I was gonna say SWTOR only because it's kinda succeeded after going F2P but it did kinda bomb at the very start.
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Mar 18, 2016 01:39
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Best way to do factions is have it be for pvp only and have it be swapable whenever for no or a very minor penalty. Keep pve out of it. Have the factions be about ideals not about races.
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Mar 18, 2016 02:00
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John Dyne posted:I was gonna say SWTOR only because it's kinda succeeded after going F2P but it did kinda bomb at the very start. but like wow it kind of have a base in that people love jedis and siths, as well as the fantasy of being boba fett or han solo.
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Mar 18, 2016 02:35
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John Dyne posted:I was gonna say SWTOR only because it's kinda succeeded after going F2P but it did kinda bomb at the very start. I get the feeling a disproportionate (or maybe entirely proportionate considering) number of people have never set foot inside a SWTOR raid, and the dungeons in that are so totally forgettable that it doesn't matter. Most people are there to have their Star Wars fantasy or play what is effectively KOTOR3 and then get out. So it succeeds by dint of not mattering. Technical wins, woo.
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Mar 18, 2016 06:12
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Crumpet posted:Heroic is what normal used to be called in mop and below. Flex became normal, and old Heroic became Mythic. Hm, I don't know, talk like that can easily be misconstrued to paint you as a member of the Wildstar target demographic. "Heroic is no longer hard enough. Normal mode is only fitting for a group of randomly assembled scrubs."
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Mar 18, 2016 12:11
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The Moon Monster posted:Dividing your player base in two in a dying genre will always be a bad idea. The only reasons it worked for WoW is because it has a huge player base and there are a significant number of people who actually give a poo poo about the story/setting (shocking but true!) ESO does this, though I think you can pay to break through to another faction. I think they're still doing ok?
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Mar 18, 2016 20:00
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Psykmoe posted:Hm, I don't know, talk like that can easily be misconstrued to paint you as a member of the Wildstar target demographic. "Heroic is no longer hard enough. Normal mode is only fitting for a group of randomly assembled scrubs." I still don't understand why it's so hard for them to just create a fun base level raid that any group of idiots can enjoy provided they have at least a couple of the right classes and then do challenge modes for the people who require video game validation. Basically I'm saying I really liked Wrath WoW, and if I was going to tickle a nostalgia bone, I'd go for the one that was actually pretty good and not just "The only thing on the market at the time."
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Mar 18, 2016 20:22
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Residual Toast posted:ESO does this, though I think you can pay to break through to another faction. Kind of. There is an "explorer pack" that comes bundled with the Imperial Edition or can be bought for coins. But all that does is allow you to make a character with a mismatched race/faction (like an Orc in the Aldmeri Dominion, when normally Orcs would all be Daggerfall Covenant). But once a character is created they are forever locked within their faction. The only cross faction interaction is certain endgame PvE things. PvP and all trading/econ stuff is segregated. This is probably good for ESO since Cyrodiil (a large, semi-persistent open world PvP zone) is an important part of the game and it's almost impossible to lend any legitimacy to that type of system if factions are fluid (see Guild Wars 2 launch).
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Mar 18, 2016 20:45
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Psykmoe posted:Hm, I don't know, talk like that can easily be misconstrued to paint you as a member of the Wildstar target demographic. "Heroic is no longer hard enough. Normal mode is only fitting for a group of randomly assembled scrubs." Are you talking about the semantics of how they renamed difficulty levels? Because that's dumb, and three still exist - hell, Mythic is for the most part (taken on hearsay here), allegedly harder than most Heroic level raids from past expansions. Rhymenoserous posted:I still don't understand why it's so hard for them to just create a fun base level raid that any group of idiots can enjoy provided they have at least a couple of the right classes and then do challenge modes for the people who require video game validation. Because, believe it or not, people differ vastly in how good they are at video games. There is never going to be one-size-fits-all raiding. Case in point: WoTLK had 4 difficulty modes. Normal 10, Normal 25, Heroic 10 and Heroic 25. There was overlap between each, but they all served their own role, and it worked tremendously well. Guess what? There's still 4 difficulty levels (with overlap) currently (if we include the joke that is LFR [not that 10N was much harder tbh]). WoTLK succeeded for more reasons than just its raiding. The current levels of difficulty work pretty well as they are, and it's not hard to understand the purpose of each. Also challenge modes are dumb (and for the most part aren't even that challenging). Doing them in MoP was just a chore to be honest, and I understand it's not much better now.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:31
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Difficulty levels works too, and I'm fine with that. And yeah I think LFR is great even though I didn't particularly enjoy it myself as anything but a "Catch up" mechanic.
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Mar 18, 2016 22:47
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Blizzard is revamping Challenge Modes in Legion to basically act like grifts in D3: you choose a difficulty level and if you beat it you unlock a slightly harsher difficulty level. The levels are finely grained and have no upper limit. In the end, when you finally fail, you get loot based on your hardest successful attempt. I wonder if that would work with a version of LFR as well. It can't be too technically different from what they already do with flex scaling difficulty.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:31
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Given how much of a hell spaghetti the WoW code must be now I can't imagine everything that might break.
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Mar 19, 2016 00:52
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Orv posted:Given how much of a hell spaghetti the WoW code must be now I can't imagine everything that might break. Yeah it's going to be awesome
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Mar 19, 2016 01:04
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Yeah can't wait for poo poo to go haywire in the upper difficulty levels.
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Mar 19, 2016 02:20
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Yeah the thing is though that it doesn't really matter if poo poo goes wrong at the upper levels if the whole point is basically to keep going until you reach your gear/skill limit, then collect rewards. Works the same way in D3 today: at some point people just reach a soft cap based on currently available gear in season.
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Mar 19, 2016 02:45
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Mr. Neutron posted:To be fair many WoW players are just as dumb, even though for the last 5 expansions the faction divide has not made any sense at all. Furthermore, in WoW it worked because there was enough players to support it. It was only failures like TOR, Warhammer, and Wildstar where it became obvious that dividing everything by factions has a bunch of problems with little gain. I'm sure WoW will eventually shrink to where they'll have to consider it, but it's probably such a technical nightmare to implement that they'll put it off via server merges and free transfers for as long as they can.
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Mar 20, 2016 23:01
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I've always wanted to see someone do factions like EQII did, I loved that system. You had two factions (good and evil), as well as neutrals who could pick either faction. You can't enter each other's cities, but you can group/chat together in other content. Also you could do a grindy quest to swap factions if you wanted to, allowing you to take a good race and play them on evil side, etc. To be honest, I fully expected Blizzard to basically do this given that this is like the fifth expansion where lore wise it's been "hey let's stop killing each other because X is way more important!!". My two big hopes for Legion were open grouping between factions, and less/no race/class restrictions. Didn't get either, so gently caress you Blizzard.
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Mar 20, 2016 23:21
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Rorus Raz posted:WoW was the game where everyone decided to copy the two faction thing from, so it's less stupid when you're one of the first to try something out. It feels like WoW took the idea of locked in factions from DAoC, since it was the only other game that had it; even in EverQuest, you could build faction reputation outside of the specific PvP servers to let yourself run around in enemy cities and such. No one's really done two faction systems well, except maybe SWTOR, because they always try to make things too drat unique and that always causes balance issues. SWTOR kinda just gave everyone the same classes with different names and balanced them equally, and the only differences were in the story and aesthetics of the classes. It was a boring implementation but it made sense storywise, but it did keep things pretty balanced. AbrahamLincolnLog posted:To be honest, I fully expected Blizzard to basically do this given that this is like the fifth expansion where lore wise it's been "hey let's stop killing each other because X is way more important!!". My two big hopes for Legion were open grouping between factions, and less/no race/class restrictions. Didn't get either, so gently caress you Blizzard. Yeah the race/class restrictions are pointless by now, but what I REALLY want are all hair styles for all races/genders. I want the loving Jane Fonda haircut on my dwarf paladin, goddammit.
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Mar 20, 2016 23:57
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I'm guessing the only reason wow hasn't done away with factions despite it being dropped by just about every MMO that still retains a niche is because of the movie. There is no gameplay reason other than maaaaybe increase some replayability by having people reroll another faction but its useless and a lot of people cant be bothered.
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Mar 21, 2016 00:25
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If you ask a Blizzard rep, they will likely reply with that the double faction is because that is what Warcraft's identity is all about (Orcs vs Humans). If you ask me: 
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Mar 21, 2016 00:35
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It's probably a spaghetti code thing -- remember, the only reason we can't replace the 16 slot backpack with another bag is because according to Blizzard it is impossible to code it to do so without wildly changing the base game, and many triggers in game are still based on the death of invisible critters behind the environment. Or it's a stubbornness thing. I mean, look at how Blizzard handles other things. The player reaction to Ashran has been overwhelmingly negative and Blizzard's response was "too bad, we're making it the big Legion battlefield too because we think it's good".
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Mar 21, 2016 00:44
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Cao Ni Ma posted:I'm guessing the only reason wow hasn't done away with factions despite it being dropped by just about every MMO that still retains a niche is because of the movie. There is no gameplay reason other than maaaaybe increase some replayability by having people reroll another faction but its useless and a lot of people cant be bothered. The 'I wanna see the other side' is probably a good idea, but thankfully they have a way to get past the 'can't be bothered' thing! it's this but sixty bucks to get to max ten short of max level
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Mar 21, 2016 00:50
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Thirty dollars? Is that real? People...people pay that?
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Mar 21, 2016 00:55
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Verbose posted:Thirty dollars? Is that real? People...people pay that? Blizzard makes an incredible amount of money on their "value added services." As far as I know; for a long time, the Horde faction was considered to be The PvP faction to play as, it was only until fairly recent that changes to racial abilities caused a unheard of massive character faction change over to Alliance over perceived nerfing to Horde racial abilities. The change caused a massive influx of Alliance players which dramatically changed the PvP queue times for both factions, so much that Blizzard implemented a "Mercenary" mechanic that allows you to queue as an opposing faction to assist with queue times for battlegrounds because of how many people either race changed ($25), faction changed ($30), or bought level 90 characters ($60).
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Mar 21, 2016 01:03
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Ulvirich posted:Blizzard makes an incredible amount of money on their "value added services." Lol
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Mar 21, 2016 03:07
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tbf the imbalance you're referring to was to give humans a free trinket slot in pvp and not understand why that was broken as poo poo. It's something that a lot of people predicted would happen when they announced the new human racials.
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Mar 21, 2016 04:42
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People have been race changing/faction changing in WoW to take advantage of racial abilities for as long as the service has been offered. They really should have locked them out of PvP or dumped them altogether, but then again... Blizzard probably gets a nice chunk of change by fleecing the people chasing the flavor of the month. It's not healthy for the game, but 
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Mar 21, 2016 04:44
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AbrahamLincolnLog posted:It's probably a spaghetti code thing -- remember, the only reason we can't replace the 16 slot backpack with another bag is because according to Blizzard it is impossible to code it to do so without wildly changing the base game, and many triggers in game are still based on the death of invisible critters behind the environment. The only way they could allow Horde and Alliance characters to communicate would be to teach every character in the game demon-ese. Every other option they've explored probably makes hunters explode into confetti or something Ulvirich posted:Blizzard makes an incredible amount of money on their "value added services." Does faction change allow you to stay the same race? Or does race change not allow you to change from Orc->Human?
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Mar 22, 2016 01:14
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The Moon Monster posted:Does faction change allow you to stay the same race? Or does race change not allow you to change from Orc->Human? Faction change comes with a (mandatory since a orc can't be alliance, and a human can't be horde and so on) free race change (A $25 dollar value!) which also allows you to fully customize your character (a $15 dollar value!). If you server transfer for $25, you are eligible for a free ($10 value!) name change if your character's name is already taken.
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Mar 22, 2016 01:25
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