EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

GABA ghoul: Oct 29, 2011

Randler posted:

A manufacturer (M) makes tampons. For one shipment of tampons he requires supplies, which he purchases from his supplier (S) for 500 CU before tax. M then takes these supplies and fashions them into one shipment of tampons. He then this one shipment of tampons to his buyer (B). To determine the sales price before tax M looks at the costs for the materials he used an adds a 10 percent charge for labour costs and his profit margin. The applicable general VAT rate is 20 percent unless stated otherwise.

Variant A: Tampon are VAT taxable, non-exempt and taxed at a zero-rate

M has an order for another shipment of tampons. He calls S and orders the necessary supplies.

S invoices M for a total of 600 CU (500 CU net price supplies, 100 CU VAT). M pays S 600 CU in cash.

M's accountant recognizes for the following changes in assets:

./. 600 CU cash
+ 500 CU goods
+ 100 CU Input VAT reimbursement claims

As the changes in assets equal out to 0, M does not run a profit or loss from this transaction.

M now does his manufacturing magic and delivers one tampon shipment to B.

M invocies B for a total of 550 CU (550 CU for the tampon shipment (goods + 10 %), 0 CU for VAT, due to zero-rate)

M's acountant recognizes for the following changes in assets:

./. 500 CU goods (the goods originally recognized are now gone)
+ 550 CU Accounts Receivable

As the changes in assets equal out to +50, M has now run a profit of 50 CU from his sale of the tampon shipment.

Variant B: Tampon are VAT taxable but tax-exempt

M has an order for another shipment of tampons. He calls S and orders the necessary supplies.

S invoices M for 600 CU (500 CU net price supplies, 100 CU VAT) M pays S 600 CU in cash.

M's accountant recognizes for the following changes in assets:

./. 600 CU cash
+ 0 CU input VAT reimbursement claim (no deduction of input VAT used for tax-exempt outputs)
+ 600 goods (Purchased goods to be recognized at purchase price, where VAT has to be included if it's non-deductible)

As the changes in assets equal out to 0, M has not run a profit or loss from this transaction.

M does his manufacturing magic.

M now does his manufacturing magic and delivers one tampon shipment to B.

M invoices B for a total of 550 CU, because he wants to keep his prices steady and Cameron promised him to watch out for him.

M's accountant opens his liquor cabinet and recognizes for the following changes in assets:

./. 600 goods ((the goods originally recognized are now gone)
+ 550 CU accounts receivable

As the changes in assets come out at ./. 50, M has now incurred a loss of 50 CU from the sale of this tampon shipments. His wife will leave him and he will become a destitute beggar on the streets of London.

Edit: Or I guess he might raise his price to 650, which leaves him with a 50 CU profit but lowers his relative margin.

That makes sense. I always thought that you must count your VAT claims against your own VAT debts, I didn't know that you can just get your claims directly from the government, in a laundry bag with a euro sign on it.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 16:08

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 10, 2024 01:26

Randler: Jan 3, 2013; ACER ET VEHEMENS BONAVIS

waitwhatno posted:

I always thought that you must count your VAT claims against your own VAT debts, I didn't know that you can just get your claims directly from the government, in a laundry bag with a euro sign on it.

I took some liberties to make the post shorter and easier to understand. You're correct in that you will have to balance out your input VAT with your output VAT and only the remaining balance is a claim or a liability that will actually result in cash transfers. You can, however, get money back from the tax administration if your input VAT is higher than your output VAT. Which is part of the reason why you have to recognize input VAT separately from output VAT instead of just adjusting one position.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 16:22

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Toplowtech posted:

Technicaly, it just mean a policeman seeing a group of more than a "few people" in the street is justified to go see what's going on. So lot of young people don't want to go outside to smoke in group because the gendarmerie is technically allowed to come see if they are smoking or carrying marijuana. Think of it as super expanded justifiable cause.

I guess your 9/11 really has come.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 17:44

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Pretty much. We'd be invading and bombing random countries too, but with budget constraints being what they are...

# ? Mar 19, 2016 17:54

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

YF-23 posted:

I'd like to think the primary motivation here is fear rather than support.

Afraid of who?

# ? Mar 19, 2016 18:07

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Kassad posted:

Pretty much. We'd be invading and bombing random countries too, but with budget constraints being what they are...

France demonstrated impressive foresight by starting Ops. Barkhane and Chammal even before the Charlie Hebdo attack. :france:

# ? Mar 19, 2016 18:15

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Didn't people tell me ISIS terrorists would never have to travel on refugee routes?

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/711242398471479296

# ? Mar 19, 2016 18:30

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Kurtofan posted:

Afraid of who?

Of the people in their community that have ties to/are members of ISIS.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 19:12

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

GaussianCopula posted:

Didn't people tell me ISIS terrorists would never have to travel on refugee routes?

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/711242398471479296

No, you're building a strawman.

It was said that these terrorists were mostly EU citizens and therefore could travel like tourists. It was said that they didn't need to travel on refugee routes unless they did it so deliberately to tar refugees.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 19:16

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

YF-23 posted:

Of the people in their community that have ties to/are members of ISIS.

Are you telling me that Molembeek, Belgium, is practically under the control of ISIS?

Cat Mattress posted:

No, you're building a strawman.

It was said that these terrorists were mostly EU citizens and therefore could travel like tourists. It was said that they didn't need to travel on refugee routes unless they did it so deliberately to tar refugees.

Do you have any proof that the refugees that took part in the attacks deliberately traveled as refugees while they had other options? Otherwise I'm calling bullshit on this claim.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 19:16

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

GaussianCopula posted:

Are you telling me that Molembeek, Belgium, is practically under the control of ISIS?

No? But do you think that gang-like practices are above ISIS or something? The guy that orchestrated the attack on Paris lived there, he obviously has a support network there and could operate to some degree from there. Would you need to think there's more than a handful of ISIS guys in your neighbourhood to be scared of them?

# ? Mar 19, 2016 19:24

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Tesseraction posted:

Well, it's the only line of attack he could do anything about. The more realistic concerns such as parliamentary sovereignty and immigration are poo poo Cameron can't do anything about, so he's taken the only thing he can potentially score a win over.

In the overarching debate, this is small poo poo no-one cares about, but for the people affected it's a nice outcome. Nothing more.

Next up: Prime Minister ~~Hacker~~ Cameron defends the British sausage.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 19:48

Randler: Jan 3, 2013; ACER ET VEHEMENS BONAVIS

There also have been two recent ECHR decisions, which are relevant to immigration and freedom of movement talk about Europe.

[url="http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-161061#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-161061%22]}"]PAJIĆ v. CROATIA[/url]
Basically: If you allow foreign spouses easier immigration, this benefit has to be extended to same sex spouses.

[url="http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-161054#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-161054%22]}"]GARIB v. THE NETHERLANDS[/url]
Basically: Dutch law restricting certain kinds of people (e.g. poors) from moving into certain neighbourhoods is reconcilable with freedom of movement (Convention Variant).

# ? Mar 19, 2016 20:13

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

GaussianCopula posted:

Are you telling me that Molembeek, Belgium, is practically under the control of ISIS?.

Cripes, no. It's the same thing as the 'no snitching' BS in the US. Anyone that provides info to the police, gets put in the record somewhere somehow and I can understand people being afraid to report, especially if the police in question happen to be particularly lovely about confidential source/witness protection.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 20:23

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

There's "being afraid to report" and "pelting media cars with rocks". It's not a stretch that a place that produced a lot of isis recruits would also have isis sympathizers living there.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 20:34

TROIKA CURES GREEK: Jun 30, 2015; by R. Guyovich

Cat Mattress posted:

No, you're building a strawman.

It was said that these terrorists were mostly EU citizens and therefore could travel like tourists. It was said that they didn't need to travel on refugee routes unless they did it so deliberately to tar refugees.

Alternatively, it was much easier to move people through those routes and the general chaos of the refugee situation provided easy cover for their activities.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 20:51

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

computer parts posted:

I guess your 9/11 really has come.

Lol i am pretty sure the exact same poo poo already happened in the mid 90s, when islamist terrorists from the GIA (Armed Islamic Group from Algeria) were exploding bombs all around.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 21:03

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

GaussianCopula posted:

Do you have any proof that the refugees that took part in the attacks deliberately traveled as refugees while they had other options? Otherwise I'm calling bullshit on this claim.

Hard proofs wrt. the motives of dead people are going to be hard to get, since s�ances are not considered valid in courts of law, but that's a neat way to explain why one would register in three different refugee camps with a fake passport and then throw that fake passport on the floor before blowing himself up.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 21:17

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Kurtofan posted:

There's "being afraid to report" and "pelting media cars with rocks". It's not a stretch that a place that produced a lot of isis recruits would also have isis sympathizers living there.

Oh definitely. I was talking more about general uncooperativeness rather than the specific incident with the car.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 21:17

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

Kurtofan posted:

There's "being afraid to report" and "pelting media cars with rocks". It's not a stretch that a place that produced a lot of isis recruits would also have isis sympathizers living there.

Chances are, those afraid to report were afraid of the ones who pelted media cars with rocks. Still, sadly :agreed:

. Heck, his visit of the refugee camps might've been exactly that - an attempt to recruit from the desperate.

# ? Mar 19, 2016 22:57

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

Given that the only reason why the caught Abdeslam is because some dude snitched on him, this whole conversation is baffling

# ? Mar 20, 2016 00:02

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Given that the only reason why the caught Abdeslam is because some dude snitched on him, this whole conversation is baffling

Do you have any source for this? According to my information, they found him because of wiretaps and a suspiciously large pizza order.

# ? Mar 20, 2016 08:09

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Randler posted:

[url="http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng?i=001-161054#{%22itemid%22:[%22001-161054%22]}"]GARIB v. THE NETHERLANDS[/url]
Basically: Dutch law restricting certain kinds of people (e.g. poors) from moving into certain neighbourhoods is reconcilable with freedom of movement (Convention Variant).

Is this Europe's equivalent of Plessy v. Ferguson?

# ? Mar 20, 2016 22:04

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Randler posted:

And where I might find this EU classification?

Because there is no distinction regarding luxury items in directive 2006/112/EC and from what I gathered during my last cup of coffee, zero-rates for indirect taxes predate UK entry into the EU. The latter being grandfathered into the VAT regime post-EU membership. Looks more likely that it is an UK classification that Cameron blames on the EU in order to rally up support back on Chav Island.

Oh, and just in case, even your state-controlled broadcasting accidentally reveals that it is in fact a classification amde by the UK in the full knowledge that later revisions were generally not possible.

Haha, of course it bloody was. There's no level of depravity our leaders won't sink to.

# ? Mar 20, 2016 22:14

Randler: Jan 3, 2013; ACER ET VEHEMENS BONAVIS

Tesseraction posted:

Haha, of course it bloody was. There's no level of depravity our leaders won't sink to.

Don't forget that changing tampon VAT rate from 5% to zero-rate increases from producer to retailer while keeping end prices at the same level. How are the chances Osborne has been visited by some nice industry lobbyists as well?

# ? Mar 20, 2016 22:40

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Randler posted:

Don't forget that changing tampon VAT rate from 5% to zero-rate increases from producer to retailer while keeping end prices at the same level. How are the chances Osborne has been visited by some nice industry lobbyists as well?

Nah, the far more likely reason is that Cameron wanted to have another "victory" in Europe to show that he can reform the EU and that Britain should vote to remain.

# ? Mar 20, 2016 22:42

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

rofl...see, this is why I'm ultimately for the UK staying in the EU. I mean, if they leave they'll only have each other to blame and who knows, that Scottish independence might actually happen then for real (lord help us all).

# ? Mar 20, 2016 22:48

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

GaussianCopula posted:

Nah, the far more likely reason is that Cameron wanted to have another "victory" in Europe to show that he can reform the EU and that Britain should vote to remain.

Absolutely, this is purely propaganda, and if we had a real press media it would be laid bare.

CrazyLoon posted:

rofl...see, this is why I'm ultimately for the UK staying in the EU. I mean, if they leave they'll only have each other to blame and who knows, that Scottish independence might actually happen then for real (lord help us all).

Honestly us only having ourselves to blame instead of blaming the current scapegoat (currently the perfidious Slav, soon to be the treacherous Balkinite) would be a boon to the political landscape.

# ? Mar 20, 2016 23:04

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

It's official now, Greece is no longer considered to be a developed economy

https://twitter.com/Jens_Bastian/status/711791713757560832

# ? Mar 21, 2016 12:36

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

All hail the EU. Officially undeveloping countries with its economic policies.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 12:38

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Truly the economic union experiment is a roaring success.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 13:29

9-Volt Assault: Jan 27, 2007; Beter twee tetten in de hand dan tien op de vlucht.

What a roaring success for austerity.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 14:38

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

Charlie Mopps posted:

What a roaring success for austerity.

This, SO loving much. Goddamn, what a stupid idea it was when I first heard it proposed way back then and now I guess the refugees were just the straw that broke the camel's back of our pretense.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 16:50

GaussianCopula: Jun 5, 2011; Jews fleeing the Holocaust are not in any way comparable to North Africans, who don't flee genocide but want to enjoy the social welfare systems of Northern Europe.

Charlie Mopps posted:

What a roaring success for austerity.

I don't get that logic. It's like saying "surgery is bad" because you were unable to save someone who got his head blast off with a shotgun.

Do you honestly believe that either the Greek state was/is not in dire need of reform and that there would have been even the slightest hint of political will to enact such reforms, if Greece were given enough money to continue to run a high deficit for longer? I'm not even going to talk about the question, whether such payments would have been politically sustainable in the rest of Europe.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 17:02

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Tesseraction posted:

Truly the economic union experiment is a roaring success.

Charlie Mopps posted:

What a roaring success for austerity.

Austerity: Letting the wealth leave the country in the pockets of the wealthy while the market collapses.

GaussianCopula posted:

I don't get that logic. It's like saying "surgery is bad" because you were unable to save someone who got his head blast off with a shotgun.

Do you honestly believe that either the Greek state was/is not in dire need of reform and that there would have been even the slightest hint of political will to enact such reforms, if Greece were given enough money to continue to run a high deficit for longer? I'm not even going to talk about the question, whether such payments would have been politically sustainable in the rest of Europe.

They need reform. Austerity is not reform, and Austerity only helps one group of people: The wealthy. It fucks everyone else, and basically leaves the economy in further tatters than before. But then again, its unsurprising coming from a guy that advocated throwing refugees under the bus of a up and coming dictator to 'save' the EU from suffering.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 21, 2016

# ? Mar 21, 2016 17:09

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Greece was never a developed country. I know, I've been there. It's very nice and I enjoyed my time there but it was not nearly on the same level as western/northern Europe.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 17:27

shrike82: Jun 11, 2005

yeah if anything it was the largesse from the EU that artifically propped up Greece for a bit.
Nothing wrong from it sinking back to its natural state

# ? Mar 21, 2016 17:30

NihilismNow: Aug 31, 2003

My Imaginary GF posted:

Is this Europe's equivalent of Plessy v. Ferguson?

Except there is no racial component at all in these cases. The goal is not to let at risk neighbourhoods get worse. They do this by not allowing too many people with social problems (on welfare, criminal past) to move into a neighbourhood.
But there is also a house visit by civil servants where they check if your apartment is actually fit for habitation and if it is fit for the number of people that plan to live there (no you can't move your 5 children into a 1 bedroom apartment or put in bunk beds and rent out the beds to eastern european labourers).
The income requirement is not high, minimum wage is more than enough.

It is less "no poors" and more "no welfare recipients that have lived in this region shorter than 6 years".

# ? Mar 21, 2016 19:08

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

YF-23 posted:

If you're going to put up a wall around Germany, and fill it with water, and you want to submerge all of Germany at least 10 meters deep, the wall will need to extend to an altitude of 10 meters above the highest point in Germany, otherwise you'll get spillage.

The Mount Everest isn't in Germany though. This means a 10km wall is still overkill. Besides this, if Trump gets elected we might consider putting up ludicrously high walls around the US instead. And submerge them in poo poo, paid for by Mexico

Also I didn't saw this mentioned yet:

Turkish civil servants arrived today in Greece to help Greek authorities to implement the treaty.

The start is pretty rough, though: Apparently they're missing everything they need to work, like machines, translators, enough time and other stuff.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 22:37

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 10, 2024 01:26

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

CommieGIR posted:

Austerity: Letting the wealth leave the country in the pockets of the wealthy while the market collapses.

They need reform. Austerity is not reform, and Austerity only helps one group of people: The wealthy. It fucks everyone else, and basically leaves the economy in further tatters than before. But then again, its unsurprising coming from a guy that advocated throwing refugees under the bus of a up and coming dictator to 'save' the EU from suffering.

Nobody's going to keep financing "reform" in a country that refuses any reforms without strict conditions. The Greeks wasted decades of a potential to build a working economy, their alternative is either to keep the debt they accrued, and receive no more loans and aid (and then go flat out into default); or cut the debt down using foreign funding while imposing austerity measures. Either way, there's no option in which the Greek economic bubble doesn't collapse, it's just a cosmetic choice. The world has no obligation to keep pouring money into the country in hopes it will undo an era of gently caress ups and corruption on somebody else's dime.

The only other option I can think of would be triggering the odious debt principle, but it's absurd to compare the state of Greek corruption with the plight of African countries abused and pillaged by warlords and indebted to weapon dealers etc.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 22:44

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

«‹›959 »