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Zachack posted:Did you read the article? The oldest person quoted (not from the company in question) was 35. The guy who was lied to/scolded is 28. I don't think boomers are even mentioned. I didn't read the article closely, no. It's me, I'm the lazy millennial. 
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Mar 20, 2016 19:40
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Main Paineframe posted:He's blaming generational garbage for his own failure to set meaningful and consistent boundaries in the workplace. Not that the dipshit posting about his manchild treehouse gets any sympathy either. Lie and take the time off, just don't toss it in your employer's face, numbnuts.
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Mar 20, 2016 21:11
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Zachack posted:Did you read the article? The oldest person quoted (not from the company in question) was 35. The guy who was lied to/scolded is 28. I don't think boomers are even mentioned. Can't blame him for missing the part about the older guy being 35 since people in Gen X are completely invisible.
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Mar 20, 2016 23:47
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I think there's also something to be said about the idea of 'professionalism'... Maybe the lack of opportunities is causing this generation to go into the workforce without the requisite experience that would help integrate them into the traditional office/group setting??
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Mar 21, 2016 01:46
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Could be just a more oppositional attitude to the institutions that are killing their futures through tax evasions, risk shifting and other 'shareholder revolution' style actions. Reid Hoffman is the only person I've read that just flat out says to leaders "acknowledge that pensions are gone, have honest conversations with your hires about their goals and their tenure and align incentives"
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Mar 21, 2016 02:23
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 It wasn't the tech industry, but I remember the last time I was working with a millenial employer who had someone our age lie to them. Fucker got binned and replaced that same day with someone who got poo poo done legendarily.Ironically it was the older boomer/probable former hippie boss at a different job who took a different tack. In the end, both cases worked out for the best so maybe there's no one right way to handle this?
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Mar 21, 2016 05:13
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Laziness not exclusive to certain demographics. News at 10.
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Mar 21, 2016 11:12
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FilthyImp posted:I agree. That sounds like a poo poo place to work. They're so caught up with being a Cool Place to I don't know, it seems to have worked out for him! He kept his job with no consequences, other than a warning that he'd better not do that two more times. Meanwhile, a female employee got shitcanned for speaking out in a way that seemed so rude to to the CEO that he says it was lucky for her there were other people there so he couldn't lose his temper at her! By the way, that's the core problem with these "it's okay to be rude" workplaces. No matter what they say, the overwhelmingly white male upper management still hold the power to retaliate against anyone who manages to offend them or seems unreasonable to them, so without a hard policy written down with clear conditions, the rules tend to get applied unevenly to the point where they become little more than a shield for "un-PC" jokes and comments, while anyone who is bothered by them gets pushed out as a bad "culture fit".
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Mar 21, 2016 14:36
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Main Paineframe posted:He explicitly says that he encourages people to speak their mind, and it's okay if it seems rude because he prefers that over people restraining themselves. But as soon as someone speaks out in a way that seems rude to him, that's something that doesn't belong in his workplace - the same workplace where people are permitted to ride hoverboards down the hall pelting each other with nerf guns. He's blaming generational garbage for his own failure to set meaningful and consistent boundaries in the workplace. That fact that millennials need to have guidelines set for them in order to know not to be aggressively insubordinate to their boss is a generational failing.
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Mar 21, 2016 14:40
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Jarmak posted:That fact that millennials need to have guidelines set for them in order to know not to be aggressively insubordinate to their boss is a generational failing. A bunch of MBA middle management consider scheduling a closed door sit-down to polity discuss what you think to be a major mistake to be aggressively insubordinate. We are taking about minor things, like wanting everyone to rewrite all of the Perl scripts into Python to that he could understand what was going on.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:16
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Jarmak posted:That fact that millennials need to have guidelines set for them in order to know not to be aggressively insubordinate to their boss is a generational failing. I've had job where the "guidelines" put in place were directly contradictory. Or you'd get three different orders from five different managers but time to do less than one of those things while six managers are threatening to write you up for insubordination. If it's a generational thing it's boomer management often setting up literally impossible situations then punishing millennials for failing to meet expectations. Whether we like it or not the boomer generation did, in fact, gently caress things up irreparably for anybody coming after them. My personal favorites were the days I'd get told to do a three hour job in two hours while also taking care of other responsibilities on top of it. When I inevitably failed I got told that my time management skills were bad so it was my own fault I couldn't get six hours of work done in two.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:24
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Main Paineframe posted:Looks to me like a problem with the company culture. The CEO tells everyone they can say what they please and do what they want and brags about how thick-skinned and tolerant of it he is, and then whines about unprofessionalism when they say or do things that seem like they're disrespectful to him. I found this to be a far more apt summary of the article: "Hmm, why aren't these literal children I've hired to write retarded fluff for other children not taking their jobs seriously?"
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Mar 21, 2016 15:26
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I've had job where the "guidelines" put in place were directly contradictory. Or you'd get three different orders from five different managers but time to do less than one of those things while six managers are threatening to write you up for insubordination. If it's a generational thing it's boomer management often setting up literally impossible situations then punishing millennials for failing to meet expectations. Whether we like it or not the boomer generation did, in fact, gently caress things up irreparably for anybody coming after them. That's just bad bureaucracy and it's been going on for about forever and it is 100% unrelated to what was being discussed, nice attempt at moving those goalposts unto a completely different field though. karthun posted:A bunch of MBA middle management consider scheduling a closed door sit-down to polity discuss what you think to be a major mistake to be aggressively insubordinate. We are taking about minor things, like wanting everyone to rewrite all of the Perl scripts into Python to that he could understand what was going on. Again, not talking about times when someone is wrongfully considering something to be insubordinate, we were talking about actual lying and insubordination. There was an article with examples posted.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:31
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Jarmak posted:That's just bad bureaucracy and it's been going on for about forever and it is 100% unrelated to what was being discussed, nice attempt at moving those goalposts unto a completely different field though. So maybe people finally got sick of pretending to go along with a lovely system? That's how these systems change, when they can't get enough people to put up with the bs and have to reform. Seems like a generational strength.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:35
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quote:Mr. Altchek recalled a companywide meeting last September that coincided with the religious holidays Yom Kippur and Eid al-Adha. An Anglo-Pakistani employee asked why management had announced a flexible time off policy for the Jewish holiday, but not for its Muslim counterpart. Wow, this guy capitulates to these kids' foot-stamping demands, bending over backwards to be mindful of their sensitivity to microagressions at all times, and they still don't respect him? How odd.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:42
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Wait, a different employee took up an offense for someone else because he didn't say the words "I'm sorry" to another employee whose semi-public criticism he accepted and changed company policy over? Good luck fitting in somewhere else, kid.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:47
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menino posted:So maybe people finally got sick of pretending to go along with a lovely system? That's how these systems change, when they can't get enough people to put up with the bs and have to reform. Seems like a generational strength. What the gently caress are you talking about? His anecdote was a complete non-sequitur that was addressing a situation that is so non-generational that it's actually an age-old cliche (I mean gently caress it was one of the main punchlines in Office Space nearly 20 years ago). If anything this post is some great performance art about a millennial's inability to cope with the real world though.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:04
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Jarmak posted:That fact that millennials need to have guidelines set for them in order to know not to be aggressively insubordinate to their boss is a generational failing. It's just the opposite - he explicitly tells and encourages employees to speak their minds even if it might seem rude, and tells them that he would prefer people to be rude rather than to restrain himself. He set out guidelines for employees to actively ignore any internal guidelines they might have. It's like going to an interview where the company representative openly says you don't have to wear a suit, but then the interviewer penalizes you if you don't wear a suit. They purposely cut down on rules and make them optional because they think that's what millenials want, but then they complain when this company culture attracts a bunch of insubordinate, unprofessional assholes, whose behavior is tolerated and even openly encouraged - right up until the exact moment that it annoys the CEO. Sure, the employee was openly insubordinate, disrespectful, and outright rude to him. But he's openly told all employees that it's okay to be rude and disrespectful, and in fact tries to use that as a selling point to attract potential hires to his company. He has no one to blame but himself for that behavior, and the fact that it happens only shows that these idiotic no-rules workplaces are stupid terrible ideas only good for turning the office into a frat party.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:04
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Kinda funny to see millenials not understand that 1) lying to skip work and publicizing the fact to colleagues and 2) asking your boss to apologize to you in public are career limiting moves
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Mar 21, 2016 16:06
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Main Paineframe posted:It's just the opposite - he explicitly tells and encourages employees to speak their minds even if it might seem rude, and tells them that he would prefer people to be rude rather than to restrain himself. He set out guidelines for employees to actively ignore any internal guidelines they might have. It's like going to an interview where the company representative openly says you don't have to wear a suit, but then the interviewer penalizes you if you don't wear a suit. They purposely cut down on rules and make them optional because they think that's what millenials want, but then they complain when this company culture attracts a bunch of insubordinate, unprofessional assholes, whose behavior is tolerated and even openly encouraged - right up until the exact moment that it annoys the CEO. So do you not understand that you can be open and honest to the point that would traditionally be considered rude without being aggressive, confrontational, and insubordinate?
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Mar 21, 2016 16:18
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Just because your boss ostensibly gives you permission to poo poo your pants doesn't mean that it's admirable, or even recommendable, to poo poo your pants.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:19
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Jarmak posted:So do you not understand that you can be open and honest to the point that would traditionally be considered rude without being aggressive, confrontational, and insubordinate? Seems like a bunch of words that are heavily context dependent and have varied definitions.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:29
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The real issue is that the new employee took up an offense and tried to speak for someone else. Presumably the Muslim employee had apparently given no indication to them that they were unhappy with the resolution or wanted the new girl to represent them. That's busybody poo poo, get 'em out. I liked the part of the article where the NYT reporter thought Snapchat was really far out though.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:30
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Reminds me of the scrawlspace that FB has where some black employees wrote #BLM and some white millenials crossed that out with #AllLivesMatter - often enough that Zuckerberg had to caution the entire firm. Another example of millenials pushing their workplace to the 21st century amirite
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Mar 21, 2016 16:33
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Jarmak posted:What the gently caress are you talking about? His anecdote was a complete non-sequitur that was addressing a situation that is so non-generational that it's actually an age-old cliche (I mean gently caress it was one of the main punchlines in Office Space nearly 20 years ago). Office Space is the quintessential example of bad policies in action. Saying "that's the way things have always been" is not a credible solution.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:45
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I also loved the part where he complained about someone eating a sandwich in a meeting with SENIOR MANAGERS. Either you have a casual non-hierarchical office culture or you don't. If you do, then who gives a gently caress unless they were chewing really loudly or something?
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Mar 21, 2016 16:54
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The problem with millenials is pee poo fart rear end, a pile of stinky dungo. Everytime a millenial frrrrrrt squat and let 'er rip, and it's funny to me that millenials plop sploosh flush, in my humble opinion (imho)
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Mar 21, 2016 16:56
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Gail Wynand posted:I also loved the part where he complained about someone eating a sandwich in a meeting with SENIOR MANAGERS. Either you have a casual non-hierarchical office culture or you don't. If you do, then who gives a gently caress unless they were chewing really loudly or something? That anecdote was a quote from Joan Kuhl, who runs a consultancy that advises on how to integrate millenials, not from the company of the CEO who was embarassed in front of a group of peer/employees by the new girl who was so offended that someone might have been offended that she had to aggressively confront her boss in the name of social justice.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:07
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Main Paineframe posted:It's just the opposite - he explicitly tells and encourages employees to speak their minds even if it might seem rude, and tells them that he would prefer people to be rude rather than to restrain himself. He set out guidelines for employees to actively ignore any internal guidelines they might have. It's like going to an interview where the company representative openly says you don't have to wear a suit, but then the interviewer penalizes you if you don't wear a suit. They purposely cut down on rules and make them optional because they think that's what millenials want, but then they complain when this company culture attracts a bunch of insubordinate, unprofessional assholes, whose behavior is tolerated and even openly encouraged - right up until the exact moment that it annoys the CEO. IDK man. My reading of that article is that Altchek tries to promote a culture that is open and fun and encourages people to speak up and contribute ideas even when they might conflict with what's proposed by more senior people, which in other organization would be considered rude or insubordinate. Not that employees have license to be confrontational, aggressive, or rude to each other (or their bosses, what the christ) in a personal sense.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:16
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TheImmigrant posted:Just because your boss ostensibly gives you permission to poo poo your pants doesn't mean that it's admirable, or even recommendable, to poo poo your pants. Yeah, but if you get fired for making GBS threads your pants in a workplace that has an explicit pant making GBS threads policy, is that really reasonable? Jarmak posted:That fact that millennials need to have guidelines set for them in order to know not to be aggressively insubordinate to their boss is a generational failing. I agree with you that the lady demanding an apology from her boss in the middle of a meeting was idiotic but lol if you think insubordination is something unique to millennials It takes a few years to learn professional boundaries. 20-somethings are lazy fuckups, news at 11. You eventually learn those boundaries or you burn out after a series of embarrassing failures. Do you think the 48 year old guy at the pizza place got there through hard work, dedication, and a healthy respect for authority? Here's a unique generational failing: The way baby boomers insist that missing even a single day of work in a quarter to illness is anathema and a sign of laziness and a poor work ethic Control Volume posted:The problem with millenials is pee poo fart rear end, a pile of stinky dungo. Everytime a millenial frrrrrrt squat and let 'er rip, and it's funny to me that millenials plop sploosh flush, in my humble opinion (imho) Mirthless fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:18
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Mirthless posted:It takes a few years to learn professional boundaries. 20-somethings are lazy fuckups, news at 11 IDK about lazy. It takes some effort to humiliate your boss in public instead of taking him aside privately and respectfully relating your grievance. edit: Like...that's not even a professional boundries sort of thing. That's a "do you have any emotional intelligence / have you ever dealt with actual people" thing.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:22
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computer parts posted:Office Space is the quintessential example of bad policies in action. Saying "that's the way things have always been" is not a credible solution. Uh, yeah, my point was it wasn't relevant not that it was a good policy. menino posted:Seems like a bunch of words that are heavily context dependent and have varied definitions. Yeah, human communication is, who would have thought? I mean "I think that policy was very insensitive and an official apology is warranted" communicates the same message appropriately in a "all ideas goes" environment without trying to publicly get a sick passive aggressive burn in on your boss
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Mar 21, 2016 17:25
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wateroverfire posted:IDK about lazy. It takes some effort to humiliate your boss in public instead of taking him aside privately and respectfully relating your grievance. Here's another question; how many baby boomers turned out to be psychotic helicopter parents that sheltered their children from pretty much everything? You'd be surprised how many people born after 1980 had tightly controlled, heavily filtered lives and never learned that sort of thing.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:25
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Here's another question; how many baby boomers turned out to be psychotic helicopter parents that sheltered their children from pretty much everything? Refusal to accept blame is, I think, another characteristic of millennials.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:34
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its always amazing how much self-loathing a forum populated largely by late 20's/early 30's posters can generate for millenials, a group which is wholly different than the demographic cohort i am as a cool smart guy beats endless whining about hipsters or ess jay double us i guess
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Mar 21, 2016 17:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:its always amazing how much self-loathing a forum populated largely by late 20's/early 30's posters can generate for millenials, a group which is wholly different than the demographic cohort i am as a cool smart guy Some authors have the millenial generation starting as early as 1980, meaning that literally everyone in their late 20s or early 30s is then a millenial.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:45
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wateroverfire posted:Refusal to accept blame is, I think, another characteristic of millennials. name me a generation that's good about accepting responsibility for their actions
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Mar 21, 2016 17:49
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How the hell is anybody discussing blame for Millenials at this point in their life cycle? Get hella out with that. Blame Gen X for accepting poo poo everything, and passing it on.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:51
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I'm just here to make fun of techbros
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Mar 21, 2016 17:51
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wateroverfire posted:IDK about lazy. It takes some effort to humiliate your boss in public instead of taking him aside privately and respectfully relating your grievance. It's really not our fault that people born between 1955 and 1980 grew up in the most peaceful and prosperous time in history and are now utterly incapable of dealing with any kind of social confrontation (edit: Because, lol if you get humiliated at somebody asking you for a loving apology) Gen X is particularly bad at this. If I see somebody age 35-45 in a service profession and I have a complaint I just loving swallow it at this point, there's no way I'm getting what I want and it's just going to spike my blood pressure because their precious little feelings get hurt. At least when we get upset it's over something actually lovely happening, the kids who thought Holden Caulfield was a sympathetic and relatable character flip their poo poo if you tell them they hosed up your espresso ToxicSlurpee posted:Here's another question; how many baby boomers turned out to be psychotic helicopter parents that sheltered their children from pretty much everything? The bluntness of digital communication hasn't helped much. The particular nuances of the social contract are lost in text and behavior that is considered polite online is unbelievably rude to people 35+ "IRL" kaleedity posted:name me a generation that's good about accepting responsibility for their actions My parents still haven't apologized for repeatedly robbing my social security to pay for their tax cuts Mirthless fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 17:59
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