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FTR our grandparents grew up in the "demand your boss give you a raise" generation. They grew up in a generation where you would get together all the other laborers in their workplace, go up to the boss as a group, and tell them as an organized union you were going to revolt against them if they didn't improve your working conditions. Those loving silents/greatests, lazy bastards with no social skills, just begging for handouts like the shiftless layabouts they were. Don't they know it's impolite to expect things of your betters?
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Mar 21, 2016 18:08
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wateroverfire posted:Refusal to accept blame is, I think, another characteristic of literally everyone.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:14
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wateroverfire posted:Refusal to accept blame is, I think, another characteristic of millennials. Do you really think it is a standout characteristic. Previous generations refused to accept blame for, oh for example, Pinochet.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:23
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e: actually nvm
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Mar 21, 2016 18:29
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Mirthless posted:FTR our grandparents grew up in the "demand your boss give you a raise" generation. They grew up in a generation where you would get together all the other laborers in their workplace, go up to the boss as a group, and tell them as an organized union you were going to revolt against them if they didn't improve your working conditions. That involved using real balls (and ovaries. No sexist.) to confront real issues, though. Not indignantly demanding your boss apologize in front of the whole office for not apologizing hard enough to somene who had not only gotten a constructive resolution to their grievance (getting muslim holiday recognized), but who wasn't due a personal apology in the first place. Seems like a difference in kind to me. Also, even in real actual labor disputes there is some protocol and respect due on both sides. Your grandparents probably understood that, too.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:35
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kaleedity posted:name me a generation that's good about accepting responsibility for their actions I think the Greatest Generation probably whined a lot less but I wasn't there, so 
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Mar 21, 2016 18:38
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wateroverfire posted:Refusal to accept blame is, I think, another characteristic of millennials. So it's the fault of millennials that policy enacted before they were born/when they were children has utterly ruined their chance at having a life that doesn't suck. They're whiny babies, top to bottom, and should absolutely never complain, ever. Got it.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:38
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ToxicSlurpee posted:So it's the fault of millennials that policy enacted before they were born/when they were children has utterly ruined their chance at having a life that doesn't suck. They're whiny babies, top to bottom, and should absolutely never complain, ever. Another really annoying thing millenials do is resort to sarcasm literally all the time.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:40
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wateroverfire posted:Also, even in real actual labor disputes there is some protocol and respect due on both sides. Your grandparents probably understood that, too. Considering my grandfather and his union used to make death threats to their bosses in order to get raises and actual breaks shows a whole different mentality when it came to labor disputes than today's "My boss didn't say sorry  , time to complain to my Tumblrites. "
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Mar 21, 2016 18:41
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wateroverfire posted:Another really annoying thing millenials do is anything I don't like
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Mar 21, 2016 18:41
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Considering my grandfather and his union used to make death threats to their bosses in order to get raises and actual breaks shows a whole different mentality when it came to labor disputes than today's "My boss didn't say sorry That sounds metal as gently caress.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:43
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but you didn't say sorrrrrryy Honestly that's just pathetic, you have to be really dumb to not understand the difference between an open door policy which allows for frankness and being a complete dick to your boss because of ~microagressions~ and expecting nothing to come of it. Tumbler special snowflake syndrome at its finest.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:43
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I really appreciate your links/references to HR-related writing. I hire and interview for my small business and some of that material has been really useful. You don't have platninum or I'd have PM'd you. Anyway, thanks.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:45
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wateroverfire posted:That involved using real balls (and ovaries. No sexist.) to confront real issues, though. Not indignantly demanding your boss apologize in front of the whole office for not apologizing hard enough to someone who had not only gotten a constructive resolution to their grievance (getting muslim holiday recognized), but who wasn't due a personal apology in the first place. Seems like a difference in kind to me. So she was being a little ridiculous, her boss would have to be pretty loving thin skinned to be humiliated by a clueless expectation of a gesture and even thinner skinned to fire them over it There was a time before right to work when a firing like that could have vacated an entire office building of primadonna "lamest generation" whiners in a full on labor strike, based on their piddly grievances over a firing being "potentially life ruining", as if that was ever a reason to not do a thing to a person, right? Those lazy, do-nothing Greatests, with their unreasonable expectations of being treated like a living person by their employers - they're really what's ruining this country! I can't even loving imagine how that exit interview must have gone, lol, wow. "Yeah, we're firing you because you made me feel vaguely embarrassed in front of a handful of your peers, I hope you learned your lesson about being critical of company policy and associating said company policies with me, a management representative of said company" Mirthless fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 18:47
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Considering my grandfather and his union used to make death threats to their bosses in order to get raises and actual breaks shows a whole different mentality when it came to labor disputes than today's "My boss didn't say sorry Yeah, unfortunately baby boomers voted people in with the specific purpose of taking away our right to organize so the only choice left to us to affect any kind of meaningful change is to criticize company policy from the bottom up on the individual level See how that worked out for her
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Mar 21, 2016 18:50
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wateroverfire posted:I really appreciate your links/references to HR-related writing. I hire and interview for my small business and some of that material has been really useful. Sure, HR is one of the greatest sources of comeptitive advantage a company can have, but I guess I'm also biased. One thing that I have noticed and had to fight to get people to understand (as a >3 month new hire) is to actually come back with data on Millennials do xyz. There is almost zero data that support any assumption about Millennials (average, need for meaning, overly anxious for feedback) When accounting for education, they are basically indistinguishable from all other 'generational' cohorts. My current project is designing a comp program for university hires and I've had about five program managers say "you know how this generation is, they don't want to wait for anything". Which is dumb b/c in fact our internal banding data and external market data shows that workers younger than 30 stay in jobs longer than any other cohort (by about .2 yrs tho, not huge) and this number has been growing since 1990, which very little noticeable acceleration after 2008.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:51
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Call me a petty rear end in a top hat, but someone demanding an apology like that would definitely get them on my poo poo list.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:52
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wateroverfire posted:That sounds metal as gently caress. In France, they regularly hold management hostage. They're not mistreated or anything but they're certainly going to get an earful. There's also this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHIcMzEYP58
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Mar 21, 2016 18:54
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Mirthless posted:So she was being a little ridiculous, her boss would have to be pretty loving thin skinned to be humiliated by a clueless expectation of a gesture and even thinner skinned to fire them over it According to the article (quoting the CEO) she was let go for poor performance. So IDK, maybe it was that one lovely outburst or maybe she was terrible in general. FWIW I think the correct response to that one incident would have been to make her cry and laugh about it at golf later, but not to fire her until she thought she was clear of it and had begun to feel like she was on firm footing at the office again.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:54
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In my experience millenials are more likely to be focused and professional, and older people applying for the same job are more likely to be burnt out, entitled and ultimately a burden.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:56
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wateroverfire posted:According to the article (quoting the CEO) she was let go for poor performance. So IDK, maybe it was that one lovely outburst or maybe she was terrible in general. FWIW I think the correct response to that one incident would have been to make her cry and laugh about it at golf later, but not to fire her until she thought she was clear of it and had begun to feel like she was on firm footing at the office again. "poor performance" is the blanket R2W excuse you use for "we fired somebody for no reason whatsoever" also, lol at playing mind games with your employees to make yourself feel better while enjoying an elitist game with your buddies, that's not at all representative of all the worst excesses of corporate management in the post-reagan era
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Mar 21, 2016 18:58
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Mirthless posted:"poor performance" is the blanket R2W excuse you use for "we fired somebody for no reason whatsoever" If they're not walking on egg shells they're putting too much wear on your carpeting.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:00
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wateroverfire posted:If they're not walking on egg shells they're putting too much wear on your carpeting. They need a little authoritarianism in their lives, huh. But your god-king's epaulettes are out of style, so navy suits will have to do.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:01
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"Poor performance" can actually, potentially mean "I wanted rid of this person so I gave them an impossible task and fired them for failing." That sounds to me like it's a hostile workplace and this is a symptom rather than a disease. Aside from that the people working you are guaranteed to know exactly what the gently caress is going on. Given the dismal state of the economy he very well may have just utterly ruined her life for a petty, petty reason.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:02
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menino posted:Sure, HR is one of the greatest sources of comeptitive advantage a company can have, but I guess I'm also biased. I like the idea that "overly anxious for feedback" is a criticism people have of Millennials, because a desire to go it alone and refuse criticism and new ideas really is a recipe for success and a sure sign you have a go-getter on your hands
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Mar 21, 2016 19:02
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wateroverfire posted:If they're not walking on egg shells they're putting too much wear on your carpeting. Do you work at the DMZ? Because otherwise that's not a good strategy for information sharing and innovation.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:02
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Wow this thread has become "millenials are babies" already? I didn't have time to make popcorn for this cool derail.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:05
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wateroverfire posted:Another really annoying thing millenials do is complain about really annoying things other millennials do on an internet forum
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Mar 21, 2016 19:08
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SedanChair posted:In my experience millenials are more likely to be focused and professional, and older people applying for the same job are more likely to be burnt out, entitled and ultimately a burden. Ooh, ageism.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:12
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BarbarianElephant posted:Ooh, ageism. I think it's more the memory of a world where you didn't have to work hard to have a career.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:13
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SedanChair posted:I think it's more the memory of a world where you didn't have to work hard to have a career. My mom had to go on long term disability for her job because carpal tunnel and bone spurs made it too hard for her Carpal tunnel! Hah! Simpler times. Must have been nice to get by with such a lovely work ethic.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:17
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menino posted:Do you work at the DMZ? Because otherwise that's not a good strategy for information sharing and innovation. I'm joking. I'd rather have an organization where ideas and problems both bubble up. But if a new employee came at me sideways like that in front of the rest of the office I'd probably dress her down and let her contract lapse if she didn't check her tone in the future. An open door is one thing but there's a time and a place. Mirthless posted:I can't even loving imagine how that exit interview must have gone, lol, wow. "Yeah, we're firing you because you made me feel vaguely embarrassed in front of a handful of your peers, I hope you learned your lesson about being critical of company policy and associating said company policies with me, a management representative of said company" Like, consider her muslim coworker who originally raised the issue. He got acknowledgement from the CEO and a change in policy to recognize the holiday. That is how you get things addressed.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:25
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Mirthless posted:My mom had to go on long term disability for her job because carpal tunnel and bone spurs made it too hard for her Yes, they tend to be more fragile as well. Yet another reason why making health care depend on employment is insane.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:29
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menino posted:Sure, HR is one of the greatest sources of comeptitive advantage a company can have, but I guess I'm also biased. Is there an HR thread floating around somewhere? Comp and retention for me is one part data to like 20 parts intuition and experience. We're a small organization so we don't have a ton of robust internal data, and good market market surveys are unavailable (or at least, I haven't found them.) for the labor market here in Chile.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:29
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wateroverfire posted:I'm joking. I'd rather have an organization where ideas and problems both bubble up. still not a reason to fire a person, still not a personal attack on her boss, still not his place to feel personally offended, still a huge raging pussy for potentially ruining somebody's life over his feelings getting hurt I'm sorry your generation decided to exemplify the pay gap they orchestrated between management and labor by requiring us to give up basic dignity and respect. We should know to treat you like the glorious ubermensch you are. We'll remember to know our place and treat you with the unyielding respect that you deserve, as members of the management class.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:33
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Mirthless posted:still not a reason to fire a person, still not a personal attack on her boss, still not his place to feel personally offended, still a huge raging pussy for potentially ruining somebody's life over his feelings getting hurt I can't tell if you're serious.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:37
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SedanChair posted:Yes, they tend to be more fragile as well. Yet another reason why making health care depend on employment is insane. 19 y/o girl I worked with at one of my first jobs had a degenerative condition in her spine and showed up to work every loving day she slipped a disc in her back and was two hours late one morning and actually apologized people can say what they want about us but millennials will work through stupid amounts of pain out of sheer obligation, because it's the only thing we've ever loving known
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Mar 21, 2016 19:38
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wateroverfire posted:Also, even in real actual labor disputes there is some protocol and respect due on both sides. Your grandparents probably understood that, too. Not really, in america employers would hire militias to fight gun battles with union workers, and over here in the UK cops and scabs would ram picket lines with armoured busses. Then get their filthy scab bastard houses burnt down.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:40
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TheImmigrant posted:Just because your boss ostensibly gives you permission to poo poo your pants doesn't mean that it's admirable, or even recommendable, to poo poo your pants. Agreed, but it still makes your boss look pretty dumb when he acts stupefied that anyone would dare poo poo their pants in his office, especially when he's openly approved of previous pants-making GBS threads incidents in other people's offices. Maybe if he didn't go out of his way to promote pants-making GBS threads as a workplace perk, he wouldn't have a company full of casual pants-shitters! wateroverfire posted:Also, even in real actual labor disputes there is some protocol and respect due on both sides. Your grandparents probably understood that, too. lol Mirthless posted:So she was being a little ridiculous, her boss would have to be pretty loving thin skinned to be humiliated by a clueless expectation of a gesture and even thinner skinned to fire them over it What really sticks out to me as indicative of thin skin is the way he made sure to explain how he had to restrain his temper and how lucky he (not her!) was that there was an audience to prevent him from just unleashing the rage
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Mar 21, 2016 20:05
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Main Paineframe posted:What really sticks out to me as indicative of thin skin is the way he made sure to explain how he had to restrain his temper and how lucky he (not her!) was that there was an audience to prevent him from just unleashing the rage 
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Mar 21, 2016 20:09
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