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Dapper Dan posted:And especially when Foggy got hit. You get this when he is talking to Karen and saying he could have hit her if he wanted, but didn't. That wasn't Frank who shot up the DA and Foggy.
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Mar 21, 2016 09:45
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Kegslayer posted:13 episodes was pretty good for Daredevil season 1 but I think season 2 and Jessica Jones would have been better if they had their story tightened to say 8-10 episodes. I think Daredevil S1 and Jessica Jones both suffered from the same pacing problem. On both shows by around episode 10 or 11, they had both beaten the bad guys, and locked them up. But they had to drag it out with Fisk and Kilgrave escaping, and then have the heroes stopping them. So it just felt tacked on in order stretch out the episode count. By the end of both series, I was all, "Just hurry up and end this already." Daredevil S2 kind of went the other way on the pacing, where there was a lot of story unexplained, but we can get that in DD S3 or on The Defenders. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 10:04
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Everything about this season was great. Punisher was everything he needed to be, Elektra was a whole level above what i thought she'd be. Her stunt woman deserves an emmy or something.
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Mar 21, 2016 10:13
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I felt very differently about Elektra. The problem with making Punisher so compelling was that by contrast I felt Elektra dragged the plot down. Her subplot with Matt was the least interesting part of the season. You hit the ground running with 4 great episodes focusing on Frank Castle, then an episode with a bunch of romantic Karen subplot and Elektra flashbacks, then it ramps back up once Fisk becomes a major plot point again. I like Karen a lot but I didn't care about the love triangle bits or Elektra trying to be good or whatever. She just seemed to be a series of bad decisions for Matt and turned him into kind of an rear end in a top hat by being one herself. This could've just been The Punisher Season and I'd have no complaints. I also still like the fight choreography but "several kung fu fights per episode" gets tiring after a while. More stuff like the stairwell fight and the prison fight, fewer ninja battles. sticklefifer fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Mar 21, 2016 |
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Mar 21, 2016 10:32
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The prison fight was up there with the injured matt hallway fight from season 1.
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Mar 21, 2016 10:40
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sticklefifer posted:fewer ninja battles. Close it or put a cock in it.
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Mar 21, 2016 10:43
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Knuc U Kinte posted:The prison fight was up there with the injured matt hallway fight from season 1. Yeah, I loved that moments before that fight started Kingpin was all,"Welp, seeya later shitlord!" and afterwards he goes to see him again all goddamn dude you loving own and then in perfect character for both of them they start beating the poo poo out of each other. I would love to see more scenes between those two.
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Mar 21, 2016 11:01
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thrakkorzog posted:It is most likely a comics reference. He actually got namedropped in Agents of SHIELD a while back as an associate of Skye/Daisy.
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Mar 21, 2016 14:22
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Well, that, uhhh, certainly was a thing that happened. Man, this season started strong but it really seemed to get lost around the halfway mark. Individually, Elektra and Punisher were fine, but together they gave the show a bad case of Spiderman 3 syndrome-- too many threads going in too many different directions, none of them given enough weight to mean anything, tied together at the last second in the laziest way possible. Frank Castle wound up being almost completely superfluous to the actual plot, which was kind of... eh. There is a point where vague, mystical bullshit is a little too vague to be compelling. The fact that we still don't even know what the gently caress a Black Sky is or what it's supposed to do is probably supposed to be enticing and mysterious, but instead I'm just annoyed and bored by that entire segment of the plot. I almost feel like this show would be better if you cut out the Hand entirely. Nobu's return was a big wet fart for me because his character didn't even seem to do much of anything besides get bodied repeatedly. I especially don't like the fact that the vague, mystical bullshit wound up basically ending Matt and Foggy's friendship and there was absolutely no loving resolution to that whatsoever. Matt/Karen is whatever. I liked Foggy/Karen better.  And what the gently caress was that 'article' she wrote at the end? I hope next season starts with her unemployed because her boss took one look at that garbage and said "Yeah, sorry, I don't think this is gonna work out."
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Mar 21, 2016 15:13
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I didn't find that Elektra or the hand brought down the season at all. Stick, The Hand and Elektra are major iconic pieces of the DD mythos and the season hit all of the major points very well. I also thought it complemented the rest of the story quite well. The Punisher story arc needs Matt to be distracted by something bigger and separate or it doesn't work. But then, I was an active reader of DD in the early 90s and went through all of the backlog of Miller/Nocenti stuff at the time, which was really the DD equivalent of the Claremont era for X-men, so really I already loved it and I wasn't caught off guard by many of the major plot points and didn't find them confusing or out of place at all. On the contrary, I was very impressed with the way they pulled them all off and tied it all together in a medium that it usually doesn't translate to very well.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:27
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Spoilers for the entire season: Romance: My girlfriend watched a handful of episodes with me, including the one where Matt and Karen had their date and remarked that they had no chemistry and I have to say, them as a couple, I agree. I just didn't buy any of it. On the other hand, I thought they nailed the Elektra/Matt relationship and thought they had excellent chemistry Punisher: Great intro 4-5 episodes but I felt a lot of the other twists and double twists involving the conspiracy surrounding his family's death was just not necessary and only served to vaguely tie him back into the main plot near the end. I kind of hope a Punisher series would expand on Blacksmith but I kind of doubt that'll happen. I also am not sure how I feel about his alliance with the Kingpin, though maybe Frank hasn't gone full Punisher yet. I think later in life, Frank would've attempted to kill Wilson without a moment's thought. The Hand/Elektra: Man, Nubo really got the Marvel Cinematic Universe Villain treatment this time around. He was uninspiring
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Mar 21, 2016 15:29
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notthegoatseguy posted:Spoilers for the entire season: 
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Mar 21, 2016 15:30
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My Q-Face posted:I didn't find that Elektra or the hand brought down the season at all. Stick, The Hand and Elektra are major iconic pieces of the DD mythos and the season hit all of the major points very well. I also thought it complemented the rest of the story quite well. The Punisher story arc needs Matt to be distracted by something bigger and separate or it doesn't work. Elements pulled straight from a comic book can be done well but I think since it builds off a mystery from season 1 (re: "just what the heck is a Black Sky") the audience has a built-in expectation for resolution, and not getting it just rings of Lost. Part of what may sour people is Elektra herself. She spends so much time simpering and being smug at Matt that it's hard to get invested in her. Her behavior is a front but it's also irritating as hell.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:41
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I felt the same way as a bunch of the thread does, Daredevil/Punisher was great, Daredevil/Elektra was great, but putting both stories together in the same season seemed a bit cluttered, more like two half seasons forced together. Especially with Matt telling Elektra to get out of his life, because he's preoccupied with the Punisher's trial, then helping her anyways. Granted, she hosed up the medical examiner's testimony so maybe he thought he could wrap up her deal before it distracted him from his case, but instead he stopped caring about the Punisher at all and went off to go fight ninjas. We were invested in the Punisher story so it felt like we were being dragged away from it by Matt to another season before finishing the second. Still, it was a pretty good season, and I like they're expanding Daredevil's scope a bit. I wonder if the Hand will be a factor in some way for Iron Fist? I know nothing about that comic series, so I could be way off.
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Mar 21, 2016 15:43
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coyo7e posted:You should probably finish the season before you keep digging. I finished it on Sunday afternoon and I don't see how anything I saw would change what I wrote. I didn't even post until later because I wanted to give it time to settle.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:01
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I've only watched episodes S2E1 and S2E2 and S2E3 so far, but I have to say that Staircase fight has been one of the best streetfighting fights ever since the legendary hall fight in Old Boy.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:11
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thrakkorzog posted:Too be fair, kind of had to see that one coming. I mean, why bother to bring in Clancy Brown to do one scene giving a speech in a courtroom if he's not going to do anything else? I mean, he's not an A-List actor, but he's big in comic media related circles. At some point there had to be something interesting involving him. It's the old Columbo, Law & Order method of finding the suspect. If you recognize the actor, they probably did it. I dunno, I thought he was doing fine as Frank's buddy and ex-CO. Heck, right until Karen saw the pic of the dead guy and he pulled the heel turn, the Colonel was a pretty sympathetic guy. I mean, yes, looked at from a meta standpoint there were only a couple of characters the Blacksmith could actually be, and once Fisk was eliminated as a suspect it did pretty much have to be the Colonel. But a guy can dream that one day they'll let Clancy be someone besides the heavy.
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Mar 21, 2016 16:55
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Totally not a spoiler but HOLY poo poo they nailed early Frank for all of this. good work, ABC/Marvel.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:08
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Now just need a gif of Matt "Boy am I glad I called THAT guy!"
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Mar 21, 2016 17:16
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Phuzzy posted:Totally not a spoiler but HOLY poo poo they nailed early Frank for all of this. good work, ABC/Marvel. ...ABC?
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Mar 21, 2016 17:18
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Aphrodite posted:...ABC? All the Netflix shows are credited as a production between Marvel Entertainment and ABC Studios. Just my theory but I'm guessing that ABC (being owned by Disney) probably had some type of contract that they were going to be airing all of Marvel's live action MCU stuff on TV. And then for whatever reason, the Netflix series started. I imagine ABC probably had minimal input and it was just a contractual thing but the people who sit at the top of the food chain in Marvel TV oversee both the ABC shows and the Netflix series.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:23
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Aphrodite posted:...ABC? ABC entertainment handles the production on all the MCU TV shows, yeah. Which is why I was really loving surprised in DD season one with Fisk crushing the Russian's head in the door. Brutal as gently caress.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:28
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So in hindsight, what was up with the timeline in this season? It started during a massive summer heat wave and ended around Christmas but it never felt like that much time was passing. Everything was quick quick quick. I never got the impression that Frank's trial lasted more than a week, and he escaped practically a day after arriving. The fight with the Hand over the last few episodes all seemed to take place over one or two nights
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Mar 21, 2016 17:34
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Yeah, the mention of Christmas near the end threw me a bit. It didn't feel like 4-6 months had passed over the span of the season.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:46
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I think the implication is that Matt has worn a metaphorical cone of shame that whole time and hasn't spoken to anyone since the final fight. But it isn't made clear in the slightest.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:48
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HIJK posted:I think the implication is that Matt has worn a metaphorical cone of shame that whole time and hasn't spoken to anyone since the final fight. But it isn't made clear in the slightest. Holy poo poo, I hope not. If that's the case then Karen is waaaaay behind on turning in her story.
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Mar 21, 2016 17:57
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The most unbelievable thing in the whole series to me was (late season spoilers) that the cubicle dwelling staff journos at the NY Bulletin didn't drag Karen Page out on her no j-degree, first day on the job office having rear end out into the street.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:02
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*milhouse voice* Why were the yakuza digging a 40 storey hole??? Why did Wilson Fisk, after stating that the Punisher is superb at murder and that he knows the Punisher is pissed off at him for trying to get him killed and knowing that the Punisher holds grudges, release the Punisher??? Is this right: The Punisher's family was killed because the Dutton guy in prison set up a three way heroin deal between three gangs that went wrong because of an undercover police officer so the DA wants the Punisher silenced to prevent word getting out, but ACTUALLY the Punisher and his family were there at this monstrous gunfight because ACTUALLY there was in fact a fourth party involved, the Kurgan, who was the Punisher's commanding officer, who wanted the Punisher to get in on smuggling heroin from Afghanistan but the Punisher wouldn't so the Kurgan killed the Punisher's entire family and because of the brain damage the Punisher forgot this and killed the three gangs instead, and then he remembered and killed the Kurgan and found the Kurgan's sweet stash of machine guns.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:11
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Eau de MacGowan posted:*milhouse voice* Why were the yakuza digging a 40 storey hole??? I'm starting to think that season 2 was more flash than substance.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:15
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Eau de MacGowan posted:*milhouse voice* Why were the yakuza digging a 40 storey hole??? I'm not sure what was up with the hole in the ground, but as for the other two, Fisk let Castle go because Fisk is an arrogant poo poo. He doesn't think the Punisher can pose a serious threat to him, and he's willing to turn the guy loose so he can profit from the damage Castle will do to his enemies. Clancy Brown's character was the Blacksmith dude that everyone was going on about. After he got back from the war, he got into the heroin trade and some of his old unit joined up with him. That's how Karen spotted him, one of the mooks at the pier was in a picture on Colonel Schoonover wall. Punisher didn't know who the Blacksmith was, he was just tailing Karen because knew she was following leads. So far as I know, there was no extra secret conspiracy. Blacksmith was dealing and set up a three-way between the gangs. The DA wanted to do a sting, but everything went to poo poo when the Blacksmith got wise and didn't show. The deal goes south and Castle's family got caught in the crossfire because the DA decided not to clear the area of civilians before the bust.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:29
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Eau de MacGowan posted:*milhouse voice* Why were the yakuza digging a 40 storey hole??? Dutton set up a meeting for three gangs to potentially buy heroin from Frank's C.O. who since they got out of the military became the Blacksmith. Whether the meeting took place in order to take out frank isn't clear. What was clear though was that Frank's family got taken out in the gang shoot-out. I'm guessing the writers left some things open in case the punisher gets his own show. Fisk let Frank go because the punisher is good at murder and since he targets criminals, he'll get a lot of Fisk's competition out of the way. Basically he wants what happened in the prison to happen in Hell's Kitchen. We can stop using spoilers now right?
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Mar 21, 2016 18:31
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As of midnight pacific this morning, yeah.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:32
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X-O posted:When this thread is unstuck then it's free reign.
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Mar 21, 2016 18:41
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Clancy Brown is just a poor man's Powers Boothe
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Mar 21, 2016 18:55
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A good barometer for how much attention someone actually pays while watching a show seems to be if they know who The Blacksmith is. A lot of people seem really confused by explicitly stated facts and clearly shown events.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:04
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Rocksicles posted:Close it or put a cock in it. My Q-Face posted:I didn't find that Elektra or the hand brought down the season at all. Stick, The Hand and Elektra are major iconic pieces of the DD mythos and the season hit all of the major points very well. I also thought it complemented the rest of the story quite well. The Punisher story arc needs Matt to be distracted by something bigger and separate or it doesn't work.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:17
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Karen's editorial was truly terrible; clearly Bullseye will be doing The Bulletin a favor. Other than that I enjoyed the season overall.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:19
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Whole season thoughts- I'll echo what others have said about the Punisher bits being really excellent. As for Electra, I liked her a lot as a character, the actress was good, had great chemistry with Matt, and she's really stunning. But have a couple of problems with her storyline. I was looking forward to seeing Electra interact with Foggy, Karen and Punisher from the moment she was introduced, but then it never happened. She was just isolated with Matt for the whole thing, except for the "it's not what you think!" bedroom scene where she sort of meets Karen. And secondly The Hand/Nobu were just boring villains. Good for a fancy fight scene but that's about it. Completely one dimensional, especially when compared to Kingpin or Punisher.
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Mar 21, 2016 19:21
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Captain Magic posted:Karen's editorial was truly terrible; clearly Bullseye will be doing The Bulletin a favor. Her prose was atrocious, especially for a feature, but her reading voice was very pleasant, so I can take it if they go hard on her narrating her bumper sticker morality next season
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Mar 21, 2016 19:32
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I am just throwing a dart here but I think the future series schedule probably looks something like this: 2016 - Luke Cage S1 2017 - Iron Fist S1 2017 - Jessica Jones S2 2018 - Daredevil S3/The Defenders 2018 - The Defenders/Daredevil S3 Not sure what's gonna happen first.
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Mar 21, 2016 20:12
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