|
CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:At least by the end you've sworn your soul to so many different daedra that there's going to be quite a punch-up when you do die. The Constantine Gambit
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2016 14:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 13:51 |
|
|
I actually enjoy a lot of the location-based stories in Fallout 4, the stuff you piece together from terminals as you go through a building and how that creates a pace of realization that usually ends with learning about some other monstrous thing the pre-war United States was up to. I feel like the writers at Bethesda have some cool ideas and then once it gets to the threshold where they invest VO resources and designing characters into it, only the bad stories get through to that level, while the actual clever stories are relegated to side quests and terminals throughout dungeons. It's kind of baffling and irritating because there's no reason why a company with that much resources that gets so much hype and publicity can't step up their game and fill out their open worlds better.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
It's baffling how terrible the dialogue in Fallout 4 is. Whoever had ultimate decision-making authority really dropped the ball spending so much money on voice actors before stopping to check if those actors were going to waste their time recording some programmer's lame script. A legitimate author could've at least given us a consistent tone or characters more dimensional than "Irish lass, somehow".
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
I think the issue with Bethesda lately is that they seem terrified to death of boring the players. So the necessary conversations are short to the point of losing any sort of character or interesting storytelling. For example, the conversations with Paarthurnax in Skyrim are some of their best writing post-Morrowind, because they're long and not afraid of talking with lots of options and such.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
The villains in Far Cry 3 had better dialogue and its ending had better consequences than Fallout 4. They actually gave everyone a distinctive voice, some backstory that came across organically, and a plot that unfolded through the missions. But because they did it well, there was never any risk that the player was going to get bored. It's pure laziness to think "Talking is boring, so let's just make every conversation three one-lines sentences long, and they don't matter so you can skip them." Why am I playing a game with this hanky, decade-old engine and odious weight limit inventory requirements and experience points if the designers think all that stuff is boring and we really just need a FPS? If that's the case, then Far Cry is an FPS that already did it all better.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:06
|
|
|
Chief Savage Man posted:I actually enjoy a lot of the location-based stories in Fallout 4, the stuff you piece together from terminals as you go through a building and how that creates a pace of realization that usually ends with learning about some other monstrous thing the pre-war United States was up to. I feel like the writers at Bethesda have some cool ideas and then once it gets to the threshold where they invest VO resources and designing characters into it, only the bad stories get through to that level, while the actual clever stories are relegated to side quests and terminals throughout dungeons. It's kind of baffling and irritating because there's no reason why a company with that much resources that gets so much hype and publicity can't step up their game and fill out their open worlds better. The impression I really got from FO4 was that Bethesda has a bigger vision than their studio size really allows. There's these little details in spots that show they can be great and fleshed out, then there's places barren of any character but with clear design plans. Like how that one lovecraftian dungeon ends in a wet Fart despite the great atmosphere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
Nasgate posted:The impression I really got from FO4 was that Bethesda has a bigger vision than their studio size really allows. There's these little details in spots that show they can be great and fleshed out, then there's places barren of any character but with clear design plans. Like how that one lovecraftian dungeon ends in a wet Fart despite the great atmosphere. Kremvh's Tooth is most assuredly not a wet fart.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 02:37
|
|
|
CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:At least by the end you've sworn your soul to so many different daedra that there's going to be quite a punch-up when you do die. That's assuming the DB ever dies. Who knows, he might have learned how to turn surplus dragon souls into a life extension.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
If the Last Dragonborn dies, they'll be the first Elder Scrolls PC to do so since Daggerfall. Divayth Fyr isn't dead, I don't think Cyrus is?, the Nerevarine is kicking around in Akavir and known to be unaging and presumably powerful enough to not get killed there, and the Champion of Cyrodiil is now Sheogorath, and presumably immortal. edit: Also if Miraak could figure out a way to live forever, I'm sure the PC could as well with Hermaeus Mora's help. HM wouldn't want their champion to be killed, would they? Cantorsdust fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Mar 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 06:51
|
|
|
Cantorsdust posted:If the Last Dragonborn dies, they'll be the first Elder Scrolls PC to do so since Daggerfall. Divayth Fyr isn't dead, I don't think Cyrus is?, the Nerevarine is kicking around in Akavir and known to be unaging and presumably powerful enough to not get killed there, and the Champion of Cyrodiil is now Sheogorath, and presumably immortal. Hermaeus Mora might want his champion to be killed when he figures out that the Dragonborn is also the champion of like four other Daedric Princes. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 07:06
|
|
|
Pakled posted:Hermaeus Mora might want his champion to be killed when he figures out that the Dragonborn is also the champion of like four other Daedric Princes. So the Dragonborn is an eternal champion, but not The Eternal Champion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 07:41
|
|
|
Why would Hermaeus Mora kill such a large source of forbidden knowledge? The Last Dragonborn has been to the afterlife, mastered the greatest magic ever by accident, and possesses every Daedric artifact that ever existed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 08:19
|
|
|
Sky Shadowing posted:I think the issue with Bethesda lately is that they seem terrified to death of boring the players. So the necessary conversations are short to the point of losing any sort of character or interesting storytelling. For example, the conversations with Paarthurnax in Skyrim are some of their best writing post-Morrowind, because they're long and not afraid of talking with lots of options and such. You know I'm not sure how Morrowind was always considered the epitome of Bethesda writing when there was much less dialog and even most of these were just expository and lacking in personality. Only real good writing are the in game books but even there I have my doubts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 09:13
|
|
|
Because the dialogue that wasn't "sign post" wasn't filler either and fed the plot very well, and the plot was phenomenal. Also, a good chunk of the in game books were done for Morrowind, even the ones used in later games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 09:27
|
|
|
Morrowind feels like there was some thought put into the world itself, the economy, the ecology and culture. I'm not really sure how the Commonwealth is supposed to operate. Nothing really flows logically. You find a faction and get dialog along the lines of "Sup, we're tech stealing Nazis. Here's a robot suit. Go talk to Nazi Idris Elba downstairs. He needs some electric rat anuses collected. TTYL." Or "Sup I'm Dad, your son. Ignore all those robots stuffing fetuses into blenders we're actually the good guys. Talk to one of our mad scientists because we need some electric rat anuses collected. TTYL."
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 13:54
|
|
|
Fallout Series Discussion: we need electric rat anuses.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
Bholder posted:there was much less dialog did we play the same game? Morrowind is walls of text. Halfway through the main quest you have monks and ashlanders narrating entire short stories to you. I can't remember any time post morrowind I had more than five lines spoken to me at once that were worth reading. Morrowind has a unique trait in that not only does it have a lot of writing, a lot of it is actually worth reading. Compare that to Oblivion where the little dialogue is all bad or Fallout 3 where the also little dialogue is sub-human rump slumping bumble baby trash Cantorsdust posted:If the Last Dragonborn dies, they'll be the first Elder Scrolls PC to do so since Daggerfall. Divayth Fyr isn't dead When was Fyr a PC?
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
Battlespire edit: Its not explicitly stated, but based on the loot he has and his book collection, and some of the lore surrounding him, its not too much of a stretch to assume he's the battlespire hero. Guildenstern Mother fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Mar 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
WanderingMinstrel I posted:Battlespire quote:Battlespire http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Third_Era#3E_389 Going off this, that was 27-37 years before Morrowind. I really doubt it was him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 19:43
|
|
|
Scyantific posted:That's assuming the DB ever dies. Who knows, he might have learned how to turn surplus dragon souls into a life extension. Personally I like the idea of the DB handing out his surplus dragon souls at death. "Well, you said I owe you my soul, you didn't say it had to be my original soul..."
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 19:46
|
|
|
Mortimer posted:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Battlespire:Official_FAQ Well its either that or he's a giant deadra nerd who bought all of the battlespire hero's stuff/captured the hero for study and is (I think) the only source for several books relating to battlespire. Its prob a dev easter egg and no one really thought too hard about the timeline implications.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
Unbelievably Fat Man posted:Morrowind feels like there was some thought put into the world itself, the economy, the ecology and culture. I'm not really sure how the Commonwealth is supposed to operate. Nothing really flows logically. You find a faction and get dialog along the lines of "Sup, we're tech stealing Nazis. Here's a robot suit. Go talk to Nazi Idris Elba downstairs. He needs some electric rat anuses collected. TTYL." Or "Sup I'm Dad, your son. Ignore all those robots stuffing fetuses into blenders we're actually the good guys. Talk to one of our mad scientists because we need some electric rat anuses collected. TTYL." Yeah, none of the writing in the different quest lines were really touching or personal but they all added to the fleshed out world. Morrowind may be the only game I know of that has so much crazy in it while at the same time feeling completely consistent and logical. Mortimer posted:http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Battlespire:Official_FAQ He's hundreds of years old isn't he? And going on a grand adventure to join some super elite faction and then just loving off to do something completely different sounds like something a PC would do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
The idea that Fyr was the protagonist of Battlespire comes from him possessing artifacts that only the hero of Battlespire should have and his book collection. But on the other hand, the hero of Battlespire was explicitly stated to be an apprentice and Fyr is much older than that. If it is him, it'd be a retcon to Battlespire more than anything. Edit: Beaten.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:The idea that Fyr was the protagonist of Battlespire comes from him possessing artifacts that only the hero of Battlespire should have and his book collection. But on the other hand, the hero of Battlespire was explicitly stated to be an apprentice and Fyr is much older than that. If it is him, it'd be a retcon to Battlespire more than anything. It's also not out of character for a PC to have to become an apprentice in a faction even when they're far overqualified for the position
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
Captain Scandinaiva posted:He's hundreds of years old isn't he?
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:14
|
|
|
Cantorsdust posted:It's also not out of character for a PC to have to become an apprentice in a faction even when they're far overqualified for the position As much I'd like it to be canon ("Fyr Joins the Psijic Order"), I think it's more likely that Fyr just collects stuff. Or the Battlespire PC is in the Corprusarium. I like that one so that's my canon. radintorov posted:He used to be a Chimer back in the First Era so he's likely one, maybe even two millenia old. "Sources" say 4000 but he does a lot of Oblivion hopping so who knows how much of that was done outside of time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
I wouldn't take the whole artifact collection thing seriously given how that poo poo just gets scattered about every game. It's Pick Up 52 with the most dangerous weapons in existence
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
Yeah but I think other than Volendrung its all specifically battlespire artifacts. Hardly a random scattering.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
WanderingMinstrel I posted:he's a giant deadra nerd I think we hit the nail on the head. That and "Dwemer Nerd," too. Talking with Fyr and his daughters make it clear he only really collects stuff to say he has them and to welcome would-be treasure hunters to play his dumb "no killing allowed" key finding game. As for the age thing, in game sources point to him as THE prime example of Telvanni Magelords extending their lives to unnatural lengths. However, I don't think anyone gives a more specific age than "Older than all the other Magelords." Out of game sources hold him as being around for the rise of ALMSIVI and one of the few people to have regular communications with Sotha Sil.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
Mortimer posted:did we play the same game? Walls of text are not dialog though, especially in Morrowind where everyone in the same town repeats the same expository text dumb without any difference. I will even say that the main plot wasn't that great either, I mean the story is dead simple: Big evil guy returns and only the reincarnated hero can stop him who was foretold by the prophecy, surprisingly this hero is you, you stop the evil and everything lives happily ever after (until Oblivion happens). The interesting part was the setting and the background but the narrative itself is bog standard and not exactly ground breaking. I would also mention the lack of real memorable characters but I can already hear people preparing their favourite Vivec fanfiction.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
If by Vivec fanfic you mean Hentus and Hainab erotic slash fiction then yes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 20:56
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Walls of text are not dialog though, especially in Morrowind where everyone in the same town repeats the same expository text dumb without any difference. Uh like the entire point of the narrative is that whilst some people in-universe present it as a bog-standard prophecy-hero thing, it is not that at all. The Emperor had you send to Vvardenfel because the prophecy is probably bullshit but you fit some of the proclaimed parameters, so that could be useful to him and the Blades. You spend the first part of the MQ learning about this prophecy, only the thing is you quickly learn there are at least three different versions of it. You can get to the final boss, a living demigod, and respond to "So are you really the reincarnation of Nerevar?" with "No, I'm just a goddamn badass and I'm here to shove this hammer up your rear end.  "e; also this is the game that gave us Crassius Curio so
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
Yeah, you had a point with the walls of text not being dialogue. But man, the main quest goes out of its way to point out that it's more a self-fulfilling prophecy than anything actually planned. Which is a rather interesting take on the elsewise generic plot. Maybe the Battlespire PC sold all that poo poo to Fyr, because as a PC he doesn't need any relics, he's op enough without. Maybe he got the life extension magic as payment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
Apparently he didn't think to hold on to the Spear of Bitter Mercy since that wound up with Sheogorath somehow. I think that the Cuirass, like the Spear, did their typical "vanished between games for the next hero to find." Perhaps Fyr picked them up for a collection. If I was an ancient Wizard, I'd probably be interested in grabbing artifacts related to a Daedric Princes failed invasion via a loophole in the cosmic rules. Also, I believe in later games he's cited in books about Daedra as being the foremost authority on the subject of Dremora and Mehrunes Dagon, which would be another reason why he'd be interested in Battlespire loot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 22:22
|
|
|
Mister Adequate posted:Uh like the entire point of the narrative is that whilst some people in-universe present it as a bog-standard prophecy-hero thing, it is not that at all. The Emperor had you send to Vvardenfel because the prophecy is probably bullshit but you fit some of the proclaimed parameters, so that could be useful to him and the Blades. You spend the first part of the MQ learning about this prophecy, only the thing is you quickly learn there are at least three different versions of it. You can get to the final boss, a living demigod, and respond to "So are you really the reincarnation of Nerevar?" with "No, I'm just a goddamn badass and I'm here to shove this hammer up your rear end. Mister Adequate posted:e; also this is the game that gave us Crassius Curio so
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 22:26
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Walls of text are not dialog though, especially in Morrowind where everyone in the same town repeats the same expository text dumb without any difference. Well yeah, sure, when you strip all the meat off the bones, it's not very impressive. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
One of Divayth's "daughters" does mention the 4000 years to my knowledge, Uupse(?) more specifically. But come on pumpkin, surely you haven't forgotten Uncle Crassius?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
Bholder posted:Walls of text are not dialog though, especially in Morrowind where everyone in the same town repeats the same expository text dumb without any difference. Please don't mind bholds he literally always does this; comes into threads and just drops some "devil's advocate" opinions. He's gotten very good at it. But his AV is just so darn cute
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 00:57
|
|
|
Bholder posted:I will even say that the main plot wasn't that great either, I mean the story is dead simple: Big evil guy returns and only the reincarnated hero can stop him who was foretold by the prophecy, surprisingly this hero is you, you stop the evil and everything lives happily ever after (until Oblivion happens). The interesting part was the setting and the background but the narrative itself is bog standard and not exactly ground breaking. Yeah dude. Blah blah protagonist, antagonist, conflict, same old bullcrap. Oh and don't even get me started on music - hundreds of years and they still just keep reusing the same twelve notes over and over? Basically, music's for dweebs and I don't see what the big deal is
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 13:51 |
|
|
TresTristesTigres posted:Yeah dude. Blah blah protagonist, antagonist, conflict, same old bullcrap. Oh and don't even get me started on music - hundreds of years and they still just keep reusing the same twelve notes over and over? Basically, music's for dweebs and I don't see what the big deal is Don't forget the super uninspired graphics - just varying combinations of red, blue, and green.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 01:34
|
|
