China Economy Megathread

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Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

"This is great, but we were really looking for advice on how to make it never go down anymore."

# ? Mar 21, 2016 15:17

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# ? May 13, 2024 05:07

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

quote:

The message registered in Kamin's account just after 11 a.m. in Washington. Kamin quickly replied from his Blackberry: "We'll try to get you something soon."

Well that's something you don't see much anymore.

Blackberry - what experts use to give advice no one will listen to, quickly.

# ? Mar 21, 2016 15:30

Rahu: Feb 14, 2009; let me just check my figures real quick here; Grimey Drawer

I wonder if the advice from the fed included hot tips like like "Don't forbid major shareholders across literally the whole market from selling for months at a time"

# ? Mar 22, 2016 00:18

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Rahu posted:

I wonder if the advice from the fed included hot tips like like "Don't forbid major shareholders across literally the whole market from selling for months at a time"

If they can never sell the stock will never go down and China will never lose face. :china:

# ? Mar 22, 2016 01:08

Trammel: Dec 31, 2007; .

McGavin posted:

If they can never sell the stock will never go down and China will never lose face.

Couldn't they just pass a law saying it's illegal to sell a stock for less than you paid for it?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 02:34

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Trammel posted:

Couldn't they just pass a law saying it's illegal to sell a stock for less than you paid for it?

That would lose them face too. The whole system of face breaks down if anyone explicitly acknowledges the underlying problems

# ? Mar 22, 2016 02:37

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

I like the western world's "The Last Guys hosed Up" model of passing blame better.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 03:36

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Potato Salad posted:

I like the western world's "The Last Guys hosed Up" model of passing blame better.

Better than "This'll all go away if we just read up on Chairman Mao's methods"

# ? Mar 22, 2016 03:37

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

Potato Salad posted:

I like the western world's "The Last Guys hosed Up" model of passing blame better.

This. Western world is just as hosed up. Don't tell me Too Big to Fail and TARP was the free market in action. Everyone dicks with their markets, just in different ways.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 04:20

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

this rendering is a joke right? Given the risks of rising sea levels and tsunamis, they're going to build LNG storage tanks at sea level?

loving lol

https://www.ceaa-acee.gc.ca/050/documents/p80032/98697E.pdf

This province is run by literal mongoloids

# ? Mar 22, 2016 05:10

AllanGordon: Jan 26, 2010; by Shine

Freezer posted:

TARP was the free market in action. Everyone dicks with their markets, just in different ways.

You do know that pure libertarianism isn't actually policy in any Western government right?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 06:05

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

AllanGordon posted:

You do know that pure libertarianism isn't actually policy in any Western government right?

I do. Nor am I advocating for it to be. Just pointing out that governments intervening in the economy is now pretty much the norm and the chinese just crank it up to 11.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 06:29

AllanGordon: Jan 26, 2010; by Shine

Freezer posted:

I do. Nor am I advocating for it to be. Just pointing out that governments intervening in the economy is now pretty much the norm and the chinese just crank it up to 11.

They both use paper currencies too so I can see the similarities.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 06:33

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Lol

https://twitter.com/n_gough/status/712161418712190977?s=09

# ? Mar 22, 2016 12:11

Bates: Jun 15, 2006

Cultural Imperial posted:

Lol

Capitalism is hard and learning is fun.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 13:48

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Freezer posted:

This. Western world is just as hosed up. Don't tell me Too Big to Fail and TARP was the free market in action. Everyone dicks with their markets, just in different ways.

Modern economics has a pretty good idea how everything goes to poo poo and what it takes to avoid it. You'll still get recessions, inflation, deflation, and stagnation, but they know how to avoid depressions (which occurred with alarming regularity up until the Great one).

So yeah, TARP is mucking with markets, just like QE. And it works. Purestrain Free Market is actually pretty awful, especially when 1890's you is trying to time bank failures so you don't lose your whole potato fortune.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 13:52

plushpuffin: Jan 10, 2003; Fratercula arctica; Nap Ghost

McGavin posted:

If they can never sell the stock will never go down and China will never lose face.

Haven't they already lost face by asking for help?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 14:14

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Prepare to cringe:

http://needwant.com/p/visit-factories-china-entrepreneur/

# ? Mar 22, 2016 15:36

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

Ladies and gentlemen: your betters.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 16:12

Freezer: Apr 20, 2001; The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Prepare to cringe:

http://needwant.com/p/visit-factories-china-entrepreneur/

My favorite bit:
"One thing we found fascinating was the hotel room + floor numbering system. In China, 8 is a lucky number. Having a room on a floor that starts with the number 8 is so desirable that they just decided to add 8 before every number. Genius!"

# ? Mar 22, 2016 16:18

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Prepare to cringe:

http://needwant.com/p/visit-factories-china-entrepreneur/

Maybe I'm missing something, but it didn't seem to be that bad. Some language issues, some cultural issues, some food issues.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 17:23

Deep State of Mind: Jul 30, 2006; "It was a busy day. I do not remember it all. In the morning, I thought I had lost my wallet. Then we went swimming and either overthrew a government or started a pro-American radio station. I can't really remember."; Fun Shoe

Nothing cringeworthy in there at all really. The floor numbering thing in the Hainan hotel is the silliest part. Everything seems like their trip went swimmingly and their Chinese partners were great and attentive to their needs and it was a productive and profitable trip. Good job to all involved!

# ? Mar 22, 2016 18:38

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Potato Salad posted:

I like the western world's "The Last Guys hosed Up" model of passing blame better.

This is probably part of why we have term limits

# ? Mar 22, 2016 19:54

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

Krispy Kareem posted:

Maybe I'm missing something, but it didn't seem to be that bad. Some language issues, some cultural issues, some food issues.

The whole amazing revelation that when traveling to a foreign country you might have a hard time if you don't speak the language didn't make you roll your eyes back into your head?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:33

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Mange Mite posted:

This is probably part of why we have term limits

Term limits merely shift the power to unelected party officials. What really matters is that we have a system for choosing who to blame for everything that came before which is reflective of the general will of our population, and incorporates our population as stakeholders in the outcome of the new guys.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:39

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Oracle posted:

The whole amazing revelation that when traveling to a foreign country you might have a hard time if you don't speak the language didn't make you roll your eyes back into your head?

Doesn't seem that bad compared to their sudden realization that they'd need visas to go to another country two weeks before they leave.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:44

FrozenVent: May 1, 2009; The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

As I said in the GBS thread, if you show up to meet a supplier and check out their production line and the supplier offer to send you on a vacation on their dime instead?

You should not take the vacation.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:37

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Oracle posted:

The whole amazing revelation that when traveling to a foreign country you might have a hard time if you don't speak the language didn't make you roll your eyes back into your head?

I couldn't tell if we were cringing at China or at the hipster entrepreneurs selling handmade artisanal iPhone cases.

I was waiting to find out that their hotel rooms actually cost more than $100/night, because it sounds cheaper to live in a Hong Kong hotel than even the tiniest apartment.

# ? Mar 23, 2016 01:35

TheBuilder: Jul 11, 2001

Cultural Imperial posted:

Lol

https://twitter.com/n_gough/status/712161418712190977?s=09

This is the funniest China related image I've ever seen.

Did similar emails find their way to Lockheed when Chengdu Aerospace was working on the J-20?

# ? Mar 23, 2016 14:52

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

quote:

China�s MA60 safety record undermines aviation dream

In June 2013, Myanma Airways Flight 309 veered off a runway in Kawthaung, Myanmar, with 60 passengers aboard and hit a wall. Myanmar�s investigation concluded the brakes and steering failed after a hydraulic-pressure drop.

Myanmar that year banned the plane, a Chinese-made Modern Ark 60 turboprop, from its airspace. Flight 309�s hulk still sits by the runway.

The day of that incident, an MA60 crash-landed in Kupang, Indonesia, injuring five. Bolivia, The Philippines and others have had MA60 accidents and grounded planes. Tonga grounded its MA60 after pressure from New Zealand, which warned its citizens not to fly in it.

China hopes soon to start exporting two new jetliners, part of its goal of securing a bigger place in global aviation and competing with giants such as Boeing and Bombardier. Looming over its plan is the turboprop that was supposed to be a stepping stone into foreign markets, the MA60, seating up to 60.

A Wall Street Journal examination of the MA60, the first Chinese-built airliner with sizeable overseas sales, found a pattern of safety problems involving landing-gear malfunctions, braking failures and steering loss, and a track record of multiple other mishaps. Some caused injuries; one killed 25.

Fewer than half the MA60s exported since 2005 appear to be still flying abroad, according to the Journal examination of accident reports and databases, airline and government statements, media accounts, and interviews with regulators and operators.

Of the 57 MA60s the manufacturer said it had exported as of January, at least 26 were put in storage after safety concerns, maintenance problems or other performance issues, the Journal calculated. Six others were deemed damaged beyond repair, or 11 per cent of the foreign MA60 fleet.

A comparable plane, the European-made ATR-72 � Myanmar and Tonga switched to it from their MA60s � has seen 3 per cent of its fleet of 835 damaged beyond repair in its 26 years in service, the Journal calculated.

Xi�an Aircraft Industry (Group) Co, the MA60�s maker, referred queries to its parent, state-owned Aviation Industry Corp of China, or AVIC, which didn�t respond to inquiries.

China has soared into markets from steel to smartphones, often selling low-cost products in poorer nations before moving up-market. Its aviation ambitions are having trouble following that path, showing the limits of China�s state-sponsored approach to a global market that presents high technological and regulatory hurdles.

The Journal examination found the regulator, the Civil Aviation Administration of China, may not have conveyed certain MA60 safety information to some importing countries despite bilateral agreements requiring it do so. The CAAC doesn�t always make domestic accident data readily available, a problem for a global industry that depends on such data to refine safety measures, and abroad has played down safety concerns around the MA60.

In a written response to the Journal, the CAAC said the MA60 has no design flaws compromising safety. Overseas accidents in recent years �weren�t directly caused by factors related to the aircraft�s design and manufacture�, it said. �These accidents have no direct relation with the aircraft�s safety.� It said it sent safety information in line with bilateral agreements.

Tevita Palu, chief executive of Tonga�s national carrier, to which China gave an MA60 as a gift, said CAAC officials told him the accidents were �only caused by pilot error�.

Inside China, the CAAC has been more vocal about MA60 problems. In 2014, it issued Chinese-language notices on its website warning about parts of the plane after domestic incidents involving landing-gear problems. A Xi�an official in 2014 told state media the landing-gear system had reliability issues.

The CAAC said it used �stern administrative measures� to oversee aviation and cites China�s record of few recent domestic air fatalities: �This is sufficient for giving the public confidence in the overall safety of Chinese civil aviation.� It didn�t respond to subsequent inquiries. China will need confidence in its regulator when it markets its new jets. Neither jet has US or European certification, so China can�t sell them in much of the developed world. It must persuade operators elsewhere its CAAC can provide oversight of the planes.

One is China�s first homemade commercial jetliner, the ARJ21, seating up to 90, slated for commercial debut this year. The other, the C919, seating up to 174, is at least two years from delivery. Both are built by state-owned Commercial Aircraft Corp of China, or Comac, of which AVIC is a major shareholder. The jets are expected to have lower price tags than Western rivals�.

The CAAC certified the smaller jet in 2014, a process the US Federal Aviation Administration observed. The FAA last year said it never intended to certify the ARJ21 as part of the process.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...1755-1458830202

# ? Mar 24, 2016 15:46

Potato Salad: Oct 23, 2014; nobody cares

Stone wall of face there.

The only way to know if a Comac aircraft is actually safe is to wait and see how many are mothballed in less than a decade and how many people it killed?

# ? Mar 24, 2016 15:54

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Jumpingmanjim posted:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...1755-1458830202

Isn't that plane a variation on a clone of the Antonov An-24 anyway? " The MA60 has not applied for FAA(US) and EASA(Europe) type certification," what a surprise.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 16:10

StandardVC10: Feb 6, 2007; This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Toplowtech posted:

Isn't that plane a variation on a clone of the Antonov An-24 anyway? " The MA60 has not applied for FAA(US) and EASA(Europe) type certification," what a surprise.

IIRC it's a An-24 clone but with Pratt and Whitney Canada engines and new avionics or something like that.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 18:20

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Does China not know modern safety and engineering standards or do their aviation manufacturers assume foreign governments sweep poo poo under the rug like Chinese leaders? Because modern planes have ridiculously high reliability. You're not going to squeeze into that market just by charging less.

I'm really curious how the new Chinese made Buick is going to turn out. I don't know if a product with that many moving parts has ever been imported from China.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 18:30

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Landing with Chinese characteristics.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 18:34

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

McGavin posted:

Landing with Chinese characteristics.

Now with convenient snap off engines!

# ? Mar 24, 2016 18:34

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

The sunroofs are a nice feature as well.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 18:51

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

asiana airlines is korean

# ? Mar 24, 2016 19:09

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Koramei posted:

asiana airlines is korean

Technically, that's a plane crash with American characteristics, since the plane is a Boeing 777, the crash was in San Francisco, and only 1 person of 307 on board died in the crash (a second passenger also suffered fatal injuries after being run over by airport facilities during the emergency response and a third died in hospital a week after the incident as a result of their injuries). If it was with Chinese characteristics far more people would have died.

Honestly, I just GIS'ed plane crash and picked the first one I could find without dead bodies. You're welcome.

# ? Mar 24, 2016 20:11

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# ? May 13, 2024 05:07

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

McGavin posted:

Technically, that's a plane crash with American characteristics, since the plane is a Boeing 777, the crash was in San Francisco, and only 1 person of 307 on board died in the crash (a second passenger also suffered fatal injuries after being run over by airport facilities during the emergency response and a third died in hospital a week after the incident as a result of their injuries). If it was with Chinese characteristics far more people would have died.

Honestly, I just GIS'ed plane crash and picked the first one I could find without dead bodies. You're welcome.

Nah it's a plane crash with Chinese characteristics because everyone insisted on taking their luggage out.

# ? Mar 25, 2016 02:09

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