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- "Obama is in Cuba while there was a terrorist attack in Belgium. Therefore he is bad." - "But how would Obama know that a terrorist attack was going to happen?" - "It doesn't matter, he shouldn't be in Cuba anyway." You just said it mattered. That was what you said. You. Said that. Not three tweets ago. You. It's basically: "Obama is bad for going to Cuba, he shouldn't even be there #CurrentlyTrendingThingIDontCareAbout" Mezzanine fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 14:17
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Muslim Immigration Ban Narrative is back y'all.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:19
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Mezzanine posted:- "Obama is in Cuba while there was a terrorist attack in Belgium. Therefore he is bad." some guy on twitter posted:he's not even the president of Europe
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Mar 22, 2016 14:19
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I would love for even a sliver of humanitarian aid sentiment to be brought up about this, but I know all they care about is blaming Obama for not personally stopping/dying in the attack or running this across the news to pump even more Islamophobia into the nation as they can.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:21
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zoux posted:Muslim Immigration Ban Narrative is back y'all. It left?
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Mar 22, 2016 14:21
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I DEMAND HOT TAKES
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Mar 22, 2016 14:25
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Phone posted:I DEMAND HOT TAKES https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/712268473376837632 CNN: No one's been caught, we have no suspects, but should we torture them?
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Mar 22, 2016 14:25
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Buffer posted:I hear they blew up the security line. Which is why having those is a super bad idea. What?
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Mar 22, 2016 14:41
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Boon posted:What? What's surprising about this? They've been known to be a massive risk and a target forever. Tens of hundreds of people waiting in line with heavy bags? Its a suicide bombing waiting to happen.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:42
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What is your alternative?
Boon fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 14:44
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Boon posted:What is your alternative?  Not play security theater? Since the TSA is basically a worthless organization anyways?
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Mar 22, 2016 14:46
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I think the problem there is that even if it's overall safer, being the guy that makes the decision to get rid of feel good but ineffectual security measures is going to be destroyed the moment anything eventually happens since you can't stop everything. No one is going to want to be the person "responsible" for a terrorist attack being successful. With the security theater people can pretend that they tried their best to stop it.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:50
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CommieGIR posted:
Stupid TSA. Hopefully, the people of Brussels, Belgium were able to call 911. These terrorists will probably complain about not getting their Miranda rights or claim the 5th or something.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:50
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foobardog posted:Stupid TSA. Hopefully, the people of Brussels, Belgium were able to call 911. These terrorists will probably complain about not getting their Miranda rights or claim the 5th or something. Why didn't they stop this attack?! WHERE WAS THE TSA WHEN THE WORLD NEEDED THEM! 
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Mar 22, 2016 14:52
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foobardog posted:Stupid TSA. Hopefully, the people of Brussels, Belgium were able to call 911. These terrorists will probably complain about not getting their Miranda rights or claim the 5th or something. lol https://twitter.com/timkmak/status/712274553720979457
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Mar 22, 2016 14:52
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"I don't know how we'll pay for it, but I'm sure our children's financial future can take another one for the team"
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Mar 22, 2016 14:53
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CommieGIR posted:
I don't think it is as worthless as you seem to think. Inefficient probably, but at a very minimum, the TSA apparatus provides a large deterrence which is a fundamental aspect of security. Often times, deterrence is the primary effect achieved by having security as the actual effectiveness of prevention and response is a far more complicated and resource intensive problem. I do agree though that we can probably revamp how we approach screening. But at some point security is always going to have to funnel a flood of passengers in order to avoid something worse happening in a more critical populous/infrastructure location. Boon fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 14:54
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CommieGIR posted:What's surprising about this? They've been known to be a massive risk and a target forever. Tens of hundreds of people waiting in line with heavy bags? Its a suicide bombing waiting to happen. Without security, the bomb goes off on the crowded 747 instead. No thanks.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:54
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Radish posted:I think the problem there is that even if it's overall safer, being the guy that makes the decision to get rid of feel good but ineffectual security measures is going to be destroyed the moment anything eventually happens since you can't stop everything. No one is going to want to be the person "responsible" for a terrorist attack being successful. With the security theater people can pretend that they tried their best to stop it. That's why terrorism is so effective. Nobody wants to be the guy that says "the correct response is to do nothing, because overreacting is exactly what they want us to do". And nobody wants to listen to the guy that says it.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:55
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Boon posted:I don't think it is as worthless as you seem to think. Inefficient probably, but at a very minimum, the TSA apparatus provides a large deterrence which is a fundamental aspect of security. Often times, deterrence is the primary effect achieved by having security as the actual effectiveness of prevention and response is a far more complicated and resource intensive problem. No, they are a waste of money and an ineffective actual system considering the number of actual guys they've caught were caught getting OFF the plane, not on the plane. Talmonis posted:Without security, the bomb goes off on the crowded 747 instead. No thanks. Again, the last few guys they caught, they were already on the plane. gradenko_2000 posted:That's why terrorism is so effective. Nobody wants to be the guy that says "the correct response is to do nothing, because overreacting is exactly what they want us to do". And nobody wants to listen to the guy that says it.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:56
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Boon posted:What is your alternative? Staff and structure properly to minimize grouping a ton of people up ahead of the checkpoints. If you can't do that, the checkpoint only makes sense to protect someone high value at the expense of us plebs.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:56
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gradenko_2000 posted:That's why terrorism is so effective. Nobody wants to be the guy that says "the correct response is to do nothing, because overreacting is exactly what they want us to do". And nobody wants to listen to the guy that says it. There's a difference between overreacting and reacting. "Do nothing." Is not a good response. A middle ground between current TSA's bullshit with the shoes and all, and having no security whatsoever, is what's needed. You can't prevent everything, but you need to try to prevent the worst of it.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:58
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Talmonis posted:There's a difference between overreacting and reacting. "Do nothing." Is not a good response. A middle ground between current TSA's bullshit with the shoes and all, and having no security whatsoever, is what's needed. You can't prevent everything, but you need to try to prevent the worst of it. Nobody is saying we SHOULDN'T have security. But the TSA is not the system we need.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:59
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Buffer posted:Staff and structure properly to minimize grouping a ton of people up ahead of the checkpoints. If you can't do that, the checkpoint only makes sense to protect someone high value at the expense of us plebs. Okay that's wonderful. Now apply that to reality. You're talking money, space, and time. Have you flown through somewhere like Chicago or Atlanta? CommieGIR posted:Nobody is saying we SHOULDN'T have security. But the TSA is not the system we need. This reads to me like "The IRS shouldn't exist, I'm going to have the treasury collect a tax structure of my choosing" which is parroted by the GOP candidates. If the TSA is broken, the answer isn't to do away with the TSA in favor of another three letter agency that we create to do the same thing, it's to fix the TSA.
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Mar 22, 2016 14:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:That's why terrorism is so effective. Nobody wants to be the guy that says "the correct response is to do nothing, because overreacting is exactly what they want us to do". And nobody wants to listen to the guy that says it. Yeah it's really depressing especially since so many of our leaders fall right into it even more the public outcry. 
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Mar 22, 2016 14:59
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Boon posted:Okay that's wonderful. Now apply that to reality. You're talking money, space, and time. Again, we do need security. But the TSA is not the security we need. A largely ineffective and wasteful organization that was nothing more than an attempt to consolidate into a bloated structure who are more famous for failures and abuse of the system than anything else. Boon posted:This reads to me like "The IRS shouldn't exist, I'm going to have the treasury collect a tax structure of my choosing" which is parroted by the GOP candidates. If the TSA is broken, the answer isn't to do away with the TSA in favor of another three letter agency that we create to do the same thing, it's to fix the TSA.  Ironically, the IRS actually works. Yes, fix the TSA. No, do away with it as it currently is setup.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:01
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CommieGIR posted:
This is irrelevant. It was a failure of security, not proof that no security would be better. A total lack of any security checks would make it 100% foolproof to just walk a carryon full of C-4 onto a plane. That's just stupid. E: Ok, that makes a little more sense. Though there is no point in eliminating the infastructure already in place for the TSA. Reform is what's required.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:01
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Talmonis posted:Without security, the bomb goes off on the crowded 747 instead. No thanks. Honestly probably less bad than a bomb going off in a major us airport. Logan is small but there are still a few thousand people crammed into a concrete box on a busy travel day.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:01
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CommieGIR, there was a study on the effectiveness of TSA that would greatly help your cause.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:02
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Talmonis posted:This is irrelevant. It was a failure of security, not proof that no security would be better. A total lack of any security checks would make it 100% foolproof to just walk a carryon full of C-4 onto a plane. That's just stupid. Just because they exist does not mean they are actually effective. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:CommieGIR, there was a study on the effectiveness of TSA that would greatly help your cause. I'm trying to find it, can't find it off hand at the office.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:03
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Wasn't Brussels a sort of crossroads for a bunch of the Paris attackers, either as someone there acting as a coordinator or it being where they were prior to being in Paris?
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Mar 22, 2016 15:04
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Oh dear lord don't read any Reddit comments on any of the Brussels articles.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:04
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Actually just don't read Reddit.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:04
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FCKGW posted:Actually just don't read Reddit.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:05
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FCKGW posted:Oh dear lord don't read any Reddit comments on any of the Brussels articles. I imagine internet atheists are feeling a lot of swagger today.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:05
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FCKGW posted:Oh dear lord don't read any Reddit comments on any of the Brussels articles. Don't read any news article comment sections ever.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:05
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FAUXTON posted:Wasn't Brussels a sort of crossroads for a bunch of the Paris attackers, either as someone there acting as a coordinator or it being where they were prior to being in Paris? Yes they just caught the Paris ringleader in Brussels a few days ago. Also word on the street is that he said he was going to talk and that info was passed on to the media as a way to expedite today's planned attacks.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:06
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CommieGIR posted:
Yes, I'm well aware the IRS actually works, the point was the irony of saying the IRS needs to go away (an arm of the treasury) while advocating for the US treasury to collect taxes that are apart of a plan that the GOP wants. Anyway, I think we largely agree that the TSA needs reform. I don't think you need to disable the current infrastructure to do it, and I think the idea of ridding security lines entirely at an airport is a pipe dream not anchored in reality. Considering the threat of a bombing in the US (when was the last time this happened) the resources dedicated to minimizing these checkpoints while maintaining the flow of passengers is, I'm speculating, not worth the investment.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:07
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CommieGIR posted:Just because they exist does not mean they are actually effective. Bag checks and metal detectors are effective and have been for decades. Little things like Air Marshals and properly locked cabin doors are also excellent deterrants.
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Mar 22, 2016 15:07
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Boon posted:Anyway, I think we largely agree that the TSA needs reform. I don't think you need to disable the current infrastructure to do it, and I think the idea of ridding security lines entirely at an airport is a pipe dream not anchored in reality. Considering the threat of a bombing in the US (when was the last time this happened) the resources dedicated to minimizing these checkpoints while maintaining the flow of passengers is, I'm speculating, not worth the investment. Unfortunately, with out the TSA is setup, the only way to really reform it is to completely dismantle it and build it back up. Yes, there needs to be an interim solution, but right now they are just one big false sense of security. Talmonis posted:Bag checks and metal detectors are effective and have been for decades. Little things like Air Marshals and properly locked cabin doors are also excellent deterrants. True, obviously checked bags still need to be scanned, but most actual threats to flight safety are either inside threats (baggage loaders/pilots/etc.) or passengers. Marshals and locked doors go a long way to combating that. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 15:08
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