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Feenix posted:Only thing in this game I am not enjoying (other than a map-wish) is not getting an Amber Idol. Having to farm-run the Gaoler thing in Red Cage is the easiest but has still taken me over an hour. The Gaoler drop is for chumps, just farm the fat dude outside the Forest Creed sanctuary. It'll still take a while, but the run's way less painful.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:18
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Babe Magnet posted:Another thing the map would kind of ruin is that first experience where you realize just how big this game actually is. That was a pretty cool moment for me and I'm glad I went in as blind as I did. The map would just display areas you've been to, it would be easy to make it hide how much more there is to find.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:21
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Megasabin posted:Shortly after this you should be at the point in the game where you have enough faction rank to just buy Amber idols from your faction merchant for 2.5k gold. No need at all to farm them. Forgive me for not fully knowing but do I need to do anything to get my faction rank up? I'm still with the 3 gods and my merchants don't have them. (as far as I know Ive beaten every boss up to Tree of Men.) [edit] How do I get back to that StoneRoots Sanctuary? Feenix fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 19:38
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Feenix posted:Forgive me for not fully knowing but do I need to do anything to get my faction rank up? I'm still with the 3 gods and my merchants don't have them. (as far as I know Ive beaten every boss up to Tree of Men.) You need to summon a Stone Leader to any of your sanctuaries and complete quests for them (which is just turning in X amount of Y item). Each turn-in nets you one devotion level and an additional replenishing item when you rest (either an extra charge for healing or focus, or a buff or attack item).
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Mar 22, 2016 19:41
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Feenix posted:Forgive me for not fully knowing but do I need to do anything to get my faction rank up? I'm still with the 3 gods and my merchants don't have them. (as far as I know Ive beaten every boss up to Tree of Men.) One of the stone guys you can get for your sanctuary is a 'stone leader'. Once you offer them to the sanctuary and they appear, they have an option called "work". The work requires giving 3x 1 specific enemy drop. Each time you do this, you rank up and can choose different items to get every time you rest at a sanctuary. So I'm like rank 3 iron ones and I get +1 potion, +1 lighting weapon buff.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:43
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So It Goes posted:I unironically like the game better without a map, but then again I'm the type of person who doesn't really ever get lost in games, I always knew the possible routes to go I hadn't done, had a general sense of how areas connected etc. It takes away from that experience to mindlessly go down gray map areas like a checklist rather than having organic exploration and a sense you are actually in a dangerous unexplored world and not playing a video game. Alternatively, a map could just be a (expensive) buyable item or something, which would be fine I guess. My issue is that the game is visually quite murky; things are plainly visible very easily at times, particularly switches and sometimes even NPCs. Additionally, in a 2-D space I can't survey a location and ascertain where I might go. In Dark Souls you could look around and find landmarks that would identify the direction you may want to generally head towards--in a 2-D space, I'm limited in doing that. Additionally, the game is so big and sprawling that maybe there was a locked door five locations away that I'm supposed to now check out; I've utterly forgotten where it was, and that's just wasted time as I wander around looking for it. Granted, this game has so many secrets and hidden locations that wandering blindly will certainly find you some, but I think this game needed a map just so I'd know where I haven't been. Metroid and SOTN did this and it worked just fine for them; Salt and Sanctuary needs play no different. Pladdicus posted:They left it out intentionally, wandering lost of part of the experience I'm thinking, much like a Souls game. It comes with quest markers/maps making exploration a lot more mindless filling in check boxes verses. Where is the Forgotten King?
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Mar 22, 2016 19:46
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Metroid and SOTN doing something isn't really a reason to just blindly follow them. The metroid maps do lessen the experience when I play them, I know not everyone agrees but I don't see how a purchasable map isn't a fair in between option. Maps in those games make things feel like checklists, where there isn't even a point really to having an interconnected world, just travel to areas you haven't been and call it a day. You're not "exploring" an area, you might as well just teleport to the sub-areas instead of traversing there. e: Forgotten King is in the Undead Crypt btw. I'm glad I found it on my own and wasn't led there by a map, same with the floating castle, discovering the secret locations was enjoyable to me a way that would be removed if maps just told me where to go and I was removed from being in the world.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:52
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ultrachrist posted:One of the stone guys you can get for your sanctuary is a 'stone leader'. Once you offer them to the sanctuary and they appear, they have an option called "work". The work requires giving 3x 1 specific enemy drop. Each time you do this, you rank up and can choose different items to get every time you rest at a sanctuary. So I'm like rank 3 iron ones and I get +1 potion, +1 lighting weapon buff. Oh those guys. I turned in 2 before and now I have 2/3 for Emberskulls ash but everything else is a beast Ive not even encountered yet. :\
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Mar 22, 2016 19:59
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...you're exploring the parts of the map you haven't filled in yet. You're exploring because at no point does the game give you a specific goal location. The map is how you keep track of things you have discovered but are no longer immediately visible, also how you avoid going in circles between parts you've already cleared out several times over. Some people find that sort of thing fun, others don't. How about we make the map a basic game feature and you don't press the map button if you think it would ruin the experience?
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Mar 22, 2016 20:00
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All the areas are pretty visually distinct (looking at that overview map I can picture almost all of them, and as it turns out the one place I couldn't was the Blackest Vault and I've never even been there). There's an NPC about 1/3 through who mentions that going either down or right = progress, and it's pretty straightforward from there. I don't understand how a Dark Souls fan could want a map in this game, it really trivializes it.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:02
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The areas also have names. Are people getting stuck a lot? The only time I got even briefly stuck was trying to figure out where to go after the dragon and that didn't take long. I become lost way more often in the Souls games.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:10
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haveblue posted:...you're exploring the parts of the map you haven't filled in yet. You're exploring because at no point does the game give you a specific goal location. The map is how you keep track of things you have discovered but are no longer immediately visible, also how you avoid going in circles between parts you've already cleared out several times over. Some people find that sort of thing fun, others don't. There's an absolutely gigantic difference between having an ongoing map assigned to a button and an item you could buy. People always say if, for example, a game is too easy to just play in some arbitrary way that makes the game harder but that is not reality. If the game has a mechanic, it is unreasonable to just say don't use it. When I play metroid, I don't just stick my head in the sand and ignore the map, I use it because it is there, but that doesn't mean I personally would like the game better if it wasn't there. It's much easier to tie to an item that you could specifially not buy, which would reward you in saving that gold for other things since you don't need the map. Castle in the Darkness was another really solid metroidvania style game that had no map and was better off for it. Also, I don't know what you mean by "specific goal location", that's just the type of fable-style cookie-crumb trail I really, really, don't wait. My location is to go "forward" to areas I haven't been, which leads to new areas, which leads to the end of the game eventually. There was a metroid game (zero mission?) that marked a map spot to go for the next power-up, which was stupid. Once it opened up the new area, I would go there anyways, I don't need to be bread-crumb trail'ed to the specific room, losing all sense of exploration. It's such a video-gamey thing that kills the immersion of exploring unknown territory, which is a unique type of experience that only games can provide. I don't want to be explicitly lead to where the jester gives you a brand, I want to find that organically because it gives the world a sense of place, that the jester wasn't sitting around as a video game objective gate, but you just happened to stumble into him while exploring a living and unknown world. The power-up you then realize lets you go into the castle, and etc. You beat a boss that gives you a key that you either know, or figure, unlocks that locked door that was in the same explicitly named area. So you go to that door and move on. Repeat. So It Goes fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 20:15
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Just turned in Emberskulls Ashes for my 3rd Leader turn in. No option for an Amber Idol. The rest are Whisperman's Ashes. (Never seen one) HEartseeker's Nerves, (never seen one) and Lepris' Ear (never also.) I'm hoping I encounter them soon. :\
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Mar 22, 2016 20:18
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I went the assassin route and am getting pretty discouraged by the lack of daggers. Was this a feasible path to take? I just beat the Tree of Men and will restart if I have made a gimp character. If not, any advice on gear?
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Mar 22, 2016 20:26
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So It Goes posted:Also, I don't know what you mean by "specific goal location", that's just the type of fable-style cookie-crumb trail I really, really, don't wait. I agree. quote:My location is to go "forward" to areas I haven't been, which leads to new areas, which leads to the end of the game eventually. There was a metroid game (zero mission?) that marked a map spot to go for the next power-up, which was stupid. Once it opened up the new area, I would go there anyways, I don't need to be bread-crumb trail'ed to the specific room, losing all sense of exploration. It's such a video-gamey thing that kills the immersion of exploring unknown territory, which is a unique type of experience that only games can provide. I don't want to be explicitly lead to where the jester gives you a brand, I want to find that organically because it gives the world a sense of place, that the jester wasn't sitting around as a video game objective gate, but you just happened to stumble into him while exploring a living and unknown world. The power-up you then realize lets you go into the castle, and etc. You beat a boss that gives you a key that you either know, or figure, unlocks that locked door that was in the same explicitly named area. So you go to that door and move on. Repeat. I'm not asking for the map to tell me where to go, I'm asking for it to help me keep track of things I have already discovered. A part of the world remains unknown until I visit it. I have no idea where the castle gate is until I go far enough to the right. This is exploration. Once I go there, it is known to me. But it's not going to stay in my head if I see it once, then leave, then don't come back for the rest of the session, then put the game down for several days, then resume playing, then find the jester. What's the spatial relationship between the jester and the gate? Why can't the game show a record of the path I already took? I already explored the castle gate, returning to it is backtracking, and I'd rather not have it be full of wrong turns, dead ends, and already-opened treasure chests. haveblue fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 20:44
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Beat the game. I liked the ending I got and the last boss is cool. Not too hard overall. This game is quite good, I'd say, though it suffers from some major flaws. Initially as I played, I found the close resemblance to Dark Souls to be a bit disappointing; it felt like the game was trying too hard to emulate the bigger title. It wasn't until I got to about my second boss The Queen of Smiles that I think the game started to click for me, even if all those traps were initially quite frustrating. This is a game that definitely opens itself up to you once you learn how to play it, and the combat system is robust and complicated, more combo-driven than Souls and it feels satisfying to kill and fight enemies. I especially liked parrying in this game, it was simple and felt good to do. Parrying horses is great. As the game goes on, it starts to feel a lot more like its own entity, and by the Red Hall of Cages you're really in the game's best stuff; the whole world is open to you now, but you don't really realize it, because it's all so tightly wound and intersected by gates. You can strike off down a road and find it just goes on and on and on, deeper and deeper. I discovered whole areas out of the blue and that sense of exploration is wonderful. It is why I lament the lack of some sort of map that is filled in as you proceed; it'd be nice to be able to plan out my journey a bit better so I don't spend ten minutes going in a circle because I didn't remember which hard-to-see chain ladder was which. The murky visuals are a disappointment in a lot of ways, the ugly character models becoming only mildly tolerable by the game's end. At least the thief girl seemed cute, somehow the big eyes effect worked for her, but I tried to keep a helmet and beard to cover my guy's face for as much of the game as possible. Hitboxes are wonky, particularly in that death animations do NOT cancel certain enemy attacks, meaning even after you've killed it, a monster may still grab and hack you to shreds. Some enemies are just plain outrageously hard to fight, but Souls has those too. I really really liked how brands worked, and I think a sequel to this game should expose you to those even sooner, and have more of them. Metroid basically perfected the best format to have a 2-D exploration-focused platformer in and S&S realizes this well, particularly in its middle-to-late portions of the game. The platforming can be a bit finicky when it counts though; sometimes I expected to grab hold of a ledge and didn't, and when you're dealing with disappearing/reappearing platforms, that is simply intolerable. Still, only four loving people made this game. It's so huge and detailed and thick with content that the small size of the team is really staggering. Axiom Verge was a one-man effort and impressive on that front, but this game has a lot of moving parts, mechanics, systems, content and complex level design that I can only imagine what a nighmare to bug test it all was. The game's plot is actually really quite solid, and I enjoy the subtle touches to it, even as it is more straightforward and overt than Dark Souls. I felt that I learned more about my setting quite naturally as I explored and found new things and in particular new NPCs. Some of the item descriptions are a bit wordy and some feel like they say a lot to mean a little; there's also a lot of repetetive word use, which suggests the script was probably a bit of a chore to edit overall. Again, with the small size of the team involved, I'm not surprised nor even particularly disappointed that flaws like this exist. It's a good game, but it has some warts. Beyond the platforming, some of the bosses felt a bit poorly balanced. The late-game bosses all melted pretty easily to my attacks, except for the Witch of the Lake who feels like she could really benefit from some balance adjustment. Every boss after her fails to do even a fraction of the damage-per-second that she can put on you. Magic is kind of overpowered in a lot of ways, so I'm looking forward to rolling a mage build before they patch that out. TLDR Salt and Sanctuary is good. Got some warts, but a good, grand start. Make this a franchise.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:55
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I'm so loving salty at the Tree of Men fight. :\ [ed] And I just beat it. :p Feenix fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 21:13
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Witch of the Lake is really dumb.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:22
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It's scary in there . Get good !
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Mar 22, 2016 21:27
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So I've got the shrouded bulwark (aka buster sword) upgraded to VI, and I just noticed I can transmute it to a Scharfrichter V. The Scharf seems to have half of the base damage, but way better scaling (S vs D), so my overall DPS would go up. Is there a reason I shouldn't do this? I'm worried about losing my trusty buster sword that I've had for a very long time.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:35
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EC posted:So I've got the shrouded bulwark (aka buster sword) upgraded to VI, and I just noticed I can transmute it to a Scharfrichter V. The Scharf seems to have half of the base damage, but way better scaling (S vs D), so my overall DPS would go up. Is there a reason I shouldn't do this? I'm worried about losing my trusty buster sword that I've had for a very long time. If it's increasing the weapon's damage then no reason not to.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:45
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Digirat posted:It's scary in there . I'll reiterate: the Witch of the Lake is really dumb. Also it's a good thing gold is pretty much meaningless in this or else I'd be pissed as hell at this scummy, ambulance chasing cleric.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:49
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Fuligin posted:I'll reiterate: the Witch of the Lake is really dumb. I just had to memorize her attack patterns and get good about dodging. The homing attack is bullshit, you kind of just have to get loving lucky when she uses it--you can outpace it by running /air dashing to the other end of the arena, but every other attack you should dodge close to her. It's really easy to get behind her when she spams her magic bullets and thats' the best time to get in a bunch of jump attacks. Always stay close and behind her when not dodging the homing attack.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:50
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I just had to memorize her attack patterns and get good about dodging. The homing attack is bullshit, you kind of just have to get loving lucky when she uses it--you can outpace it by running /air dashing to the other end of the arena, but every other attack you should dodge close to her. It's really easy to get behind her when she spams her magic bullets and thats' the best time to get in a bunch of jump attacks. Always stay close and behind her when not dodging the homing attack. Yeah I've got most of the patterns down. What's really annoying is her tendency to drift off screen. When that happens I can't tell what spell she's preparing and I get nailed every time. C'est la vie.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:09
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EC posted:So I've got the shrouded bulwark (aka buster sword) upgraded to VI, and I just noticed I can transmute it to a Scharfrichter V. The Scharf seems to have half of the base damage, but way better scaling (S vs D), so my overall DPS would go up. Is there a reason I shouldn't do this? I'm worried about losing my trusty buster sword that I've had for a very long time. I ended up transmuting to the scharfrichter and have no regrets. It doesn't hit as hard as my obsidian monolith (greathammer) but it's much lighter and swings faster. NG+ Kraeken Wyrm was a slog. Tanking fire with the fire resist shield and single-handing the scharf was slooooooooow going. Also the NG+ Tree of Men seemed to have a ton more HP or damage resist at least during its second phase.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:09
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Fuligin posted:Yeah I've got most of the patterns down. What's really annoying is her tendency to drift off screen. When that happens I can't tell what spell she's preparing and I get nailed every time. C'est la vie. The moment she dips too far away, get to the other end of the screen. Making her come to you will make a lull in her attacks, and you can air-dash out of range of all of her attacks if you move fast.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:10
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Game is stylish and fun but requires 0 skill so far. Max strength and endurance, get the best and heaviest armor and two handed you can find and wear and literally facetank bosses, maybe, maaaaybe put on a ring that gives resistance to some element. The same was true for the souls games, but not quite so much. I still like it a lot.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:45
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Where do I go now that I've killed that Wyrm in the Castle of Storms?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:13
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Where do I go now that I've killed that Wyrm in the Castle of Storms? With the Brand you got from the lady after it you can progress through the castle more. Check out the areas to the right in the lower/starting part of the castle.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:16
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If everyone's having so much trouble with the Tree of Men fight just skip it. It's optional.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:39
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Any advice for end game stuff? I think I'm in the last area but don't want to be moved into NG+ before going through some clean up.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:40
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EC posted:Any advice for end game stuff? I think I'm in the last area but don't want to be moved into NG+ before going through some clean up. Have you hit up the flying castle? The ronin boss?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:50
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Fuligin posted:Have you hit up the flying castle? The ronin boss? Got the second, not the first. Going to go look for that now.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:53
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EC posted:Got the second, not the first. Going to go look for that now. If you get lost, Look for that suspicious crater full of corpses under the stars. A torch may show you a path.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:56
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AllisonByProxy posted:If everyone's having so much trouble with the Tree of Men fight just skip it. It's optional. I don't think there's an alternative access to Hager's Cavern, which is necessary to get to the Bog, and so forth. Gotta get through him for an entire branch of the game.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:03
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EC posted:Any advice for end game stuff? I think I'm in the last area but don't want to be moved into NG+ before going through some clean up. It's REALLY obvious in this game when you're about to be moved to NG+ unlike some of the soulsbornes games so don't worry about that. NotAnArtist posted:NG+ Kraeken Wyrm was a slog. Tanking fire with the fire resist shield and single-handing the scharf was slooooooooow going. Also the NG+ Tree of Men seemed to have a ton more HP or damage resist at least during its second phase. If you can manage it, switch to the Betrayer creed and stock up on flasks of defilement. They almost double or triple the damage bosses take. Lakbay fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 01:06
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Bugblatter posted:I don't think there's an alternative access to Hager's Cavern, which is necessary to get to the Bog, and so forth. Gotta get through him for an entire branch of the game. Not true, I did Hager's Cavern by dipping into Hall of Red Cages but leaving out the right side of the Sancuary and then completing the Dome, hopping over the pyramid, taking the boat to the fort, then from the fort going in the back way of the cavern.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:09
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Anyone have any feedback on hybrid builds? I was thinking wands/shields/swords or staves/greatscissors, wondered if anyone has experience. Miracles seem cool. The more... active? spellcasting of magic seems appealing though.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:11
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poor life choice posted:Anyone have any feedback on hybrid builds? I was thinking wands/shields/swords or staves/greatscissors, wondered if anyone has experience. Miracles absolutely requires a hybrid build with a weapon because out of the 3 offensive spells clerics get two are incredibly bad and the 3rd one only works when you attack with a melee weapon. Magic offensive spells are really good but their buffs are not as strong as miracles. There's a really overtuned spell in the magic line that makes the game trivial but even if you avoid that you'll probably melt bosses either way. My current build built around the magic tier 4 katana is really good and I actually have points left over despite going into 3 different skill branches. Lakbay fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 01:14
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poor life choice posted:Anyone have any feedback on hybrid builds? I was thinking wands/shields/swords or staves/greatscissors, wondered if anyone has experience. Can confirm that magic/greatsword hybrid works well. If you choose Amber Idol as your effects you can transmute an arcane damage magic-scaling greatsword from the Queen of Smiles Ear. You can then transmute that (or another Kureimoa if you get to rank 3 in the Three/Iron Ones to purchase them form Blacksmiths) to a lightning damage magic-scaling greatscissor. This means you can also use swords effectively, such as the arcane damage Shikeimaru, or the fire damage Branding Iron. So you can go (2handed) greatsword for one loadout and then either a stave or a wand+one of the aforementioned swords for the second loadout. Gives you quick attacks, slow powerful attacks, parrying, and magic.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:20
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