Techbros speak out: homeless people need to lose their last shreds of pride

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Techbros speak out: homeless people need to lose their last shreds of pride

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Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

Jarmak posted:

That not what at will employment even means, it literally has no impact if you're fired for cause.

quote:

Use in US labor union contracts[edit]
The standard of just cause provides important protections against arbitrary or unfair termination and other forms of inappropriate workplace discipline. Just cause has become a common standard in labor arbitration, and is included in labor union contracts as a form of job security. Typically, an employer must prove just cause before an arbitrator in order to sustain an employee's termination, suspension, or other discipline. Usually, the employer has the burden of proof in discharge cases or if the employee is in the wrong.

In the workplace, just cause is a burden of proof or standard that an employer must meet to justify discipline or discharge. Just cause usually refers to a violation of a company policy or rule. In some cases, an employee may commit an act that is not specifically addressed within the employers' policies but one of which the employer believes warrants discipline or discharge. In such instances, the employer must be confident that they can defend their decision.

When an arbitrator looks at a discipline dispute, the arbitrator first asks whether the employee's wrongdoing has been proven by the employer, and then asks whether the method of discipline should be upheld or modified. In 1966, an arbitrator, Professor Carroll Daugherty, expanded these principles into seven tests for just cause.[1] The concepts encompassed within his seven tests are still frequently used by arbitrators when deciding discipline cases.

Daugherty's seven tests are as follows:

Was the employee forewarned of the consequences of his or her actions?
Are the employer's rules reasonably related to business efficiency and performance the employer might reasonably expect from the employee?
Was an effort made before discipline or discharge to determine whether the employee was guilty as charged?
Was the investigation conducted fairly and objectively?
Did the employer obtain substantial evidence of the employee's guilt?
Were the rules applied fairly and without discrimination?
Was the degree of discipline reasonably related to the seriousness of the employee's offense and the employee's past record?

Employment at will means your employer can bypass 100% of the above things. They don't have to give you forewarning, they do not have to have a write-up process, they do not have to give you chances or make sure you are aware of the policy, and they don't even have to have hard rules on the books to explain why you are fired. Employment at will means you can be fired for literally any reason whatsoever, and the only justification your employer needs to prove is "they did something we felt was wrong", not "they did something wrong that they knew was wrong and that we tried to correct".

The difference between at-will employment and the former status quo is that in an at-will state your employer can make up a reason to fire you, on the spot, and as long as you did the thing they made up the reason for it is a justified termination. They do not need to prove your disciplinary record. In an AWE scenario, it is the employer's judgement that decides what just cause is, not any legal standard.

a shameful boehner posted:

any other hot takes you got like your support for the genocide of native peoples

its really amusing to me that people employed or formerly employed by the US army, the biggest source of welfare in the country, have anything critical at all to say about other people wanting to receive the benefits they've earned

Hey man, high school dropouts and white supremacists need to feed their families too

Mirthless fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Mar 22, 2016

# ? Mar 22, 2016 19:59

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 09:37

The Slithery D: Jul 19, 2012

Mirthless posted:

Really, people like me should just be lined up in front of a furnace to be used as fuel, that's all us poors are good for, right?

Depends. How fat are you? I think skinny people probably need more accelerant than they return, thermodynamic moochers.

Coolness Averted posted:

Surely you don't think it's okay for a firefighter to make you do a song and dance before they'll put out a fire? Or a relay race required to get to police to come stop a burglar, why is this benefit different? If anything in the US you are more owed unemployment insurance since you literally pay into a special fund just for it on every paycheck.

Well I do think they should see if you paid your fees, if required. Stories like this warm my heart:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

a shameful boehner posted:

any other hot takes you got like your support for the genocide of native peoples

its really amusing to me that people employed or formerly employed by the US army, the biggest source of welfare in the country, have anything critical at all to say about other people wanting to receive the benefits they've earned

Oh, believe me, I bashed all the entitled little pricks I served with, too. "Waaah, Congress only approved a 1.8% raise." Go get a loving civilian job then, if your skills are so valuable. Guess what, the post-9/11 raises were absurd and the overall military pay scales are way too high.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:03

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

a shameful boehner posted:

They're the same in practice, a form of social insurance that is inelastic and paid through taxes. Why are they different?

If you set fire to your home the fire service puts the fire out and the police put you in jail.

If you set fire to your career, no-strings unemployment gives you a free vacation and a ton of free time.

One of those is a bad incentive.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:04

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

im glad youre at least able to acknowledge your own gross hypocrisy on this issue

lmao at the idea that theres any significant number of people who purposefully get themselves fired just for a "free vacation" :cripes:

ex post facho fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Mar 22, 2016

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:05

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

wateroverfire posted:

If you set fire to your home the fire service puts the fire out and the police put you in jail.

If you set fire to your career, no-strings unemployment gives you a free vacation and a ton of free time.

One of those is a bad incentive.

Here's a person who's never been suddenly unemployed in his life

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:05

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

wateroverfire posted:

If you set fire to your home the fire service puts the fire out and the police put you in jail.

If you set fire to your career, no-strings unemployment gives you a free vacation and a ton of free time.

One of those is a bad incentive.

Every person who doesn't have a job anymore only has themselves to blame. External circumstances do not exist.

Got it.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:06

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

Mirthless posted:

Employment at will means your employer can bypass 100% of the above things. They don't have to give you forewarning, they do not have to have a write-up process, they do not have to give you chances or make sure you are aware of the policy, and they don't even have to have hard rules on the books to explain why you are fired. Employment at will means you can be fired for literally any reason whatsoever, and the only justification your employer needs to prove is "they did something we felt was wrong", not "they did something wrong that they knew was wrong and that we tried to correct".

The difference between at-will employment and the former status quo is that in an at-will state your employer can make up a reason to fire you, on the spot, and as long as you did the thing they made up the reason for it is a justified termination. They do not need to prove your disciplinary record. In an AWE scenario, it is the employer's judgement that decides what just cause is, not any legal standard.

...no...that's not how it works.

At will employment just means your employer can separate you for any reason. If they want to fire you for cause (ie: deny you benefits), that has a specific meaning and they have to be ready to show proof.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:07

Soy Division: Aug 12, 2004

Mirthless posted:

Employment at will means your employer can bypass 100% of the above things. They don't have to give you forewarning, they do not have to have a write-up process, they do not have to give you chances or make sure you are aware of the policy, and they don't even have to have hard rules on the books to explain why you are fired. Employment at will means you can be fired for literally any reason whatsoever, and the only justification your employer needs to prove is "they did something we felt was wrong", not "they did something wrong that they knew was wrong and that we tried to correct".

The difference between at-will employment and the former status quo is that in an at-will state your employer can make up a reason to fire you, on the spot, and as long as you did the thing they made up the reason for it is a justified termination. They do not need to prove your disciplinary record. In an AWE scenario, it is the employer's judgement that decides what just cause is, not any legal standard.

Nope, aside from discrimination there's also exceptions for breach of contract (if they give you an employee handbook they can't violate whatever's in there) and public policy (they can't fire you for being a whistleblower or refusing to break the law).

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:07

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

wateroverfire posted:

If you set fire to your home the fire service puts the fire out and the police put you in jail.

If you set fire to your career, no-strings unemployment gives you a free vacation and a ton of free time.

One of those is a bad incentive.

Losing 30% of the hair on my head and developing stress ulcers in my lower GI, racking up 4 grand in credit card debt, ending up with a 30,000 dollar medical bill I couldn't pay for a staph infection in my scrotum (I was temping at a hospital briefly) and having my marriage almost dissolve, oh man, those awesome vacation memories. Every summer break! Can't wait until next vacation!

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:08

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

Mirthless posted:

Here's a person who's never been suddenly unemployed in his life

LOL. I've been suddenly unemployed before. Goddamn you are some whiney manchildren.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:08

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Mirthless posted:

Employment at will means your employer can bypass 100% of the above things. They don't have to give you forewarning, they do not have to have a write-up process, they do not have to give you chances or make sure you are aware of the policy, and they don't even have to have hard rules on the books to explain why you are fired. Employment at will means you can be fired for literally any reason whatsoever, and the only justification your employer needs to prove is "they did something we felt was wrong", not "they did something wrong that they knew was wrong and that we tried to correct".

The difference between at-will employment and the former status quo is that in an at-will state your employer can make up a reason to fire you, on the spot, and as long as you did the thing they made up the reason for it is a justified termination. They do not need to prove your disciplinary record. In an AWE scenario, it is the employer's judgement that decides what just cause is, not any legal standard.

Hey man, high school dropouts and white supremacists need to feed their families too

They can absolutely bypass all of those things, but they didn't, you were fired for cause

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:08

Twerkteam Pizza: Sep 26, 2015; Grimey Drawer

The Slithery D posted:

Making people do things they don't want to do (like employ you) is demanding control over their lives.

Pfffft, you're suggesting that not letting employers fire people at will is worse than people starving now. I know the second is an extreme case in your mind, but you're the one suggesting employer constraint is much worse than other's material deprecation.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:09

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK: Sep 11, 2008; Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola
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Coolness Averted posted:

Surely you don't think it's okay for a firefighter to make you do a song and dance before they'll put out a fire?

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:09

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

Mirthless posted:

Losing 30% of the hair on my head and developing stress ulcers in my lower GI, racking up 4 grand in credit card debt, ending up with a 30,000 dollar medical bill I couldn't pay for a staph infection in my scrotum (I was temping at a hospital briefly) and having my marriage almost dissolve, oh man, those awesome vacation memories. Every summer break! Can't wait until next vacation!

I'm sorry your life has sucked. Your posting makes me 100% believe you have had a large part to play in that. Unironicly, good luck in the future.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:09

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Every person who doesn't have a job anymore only has themselves to blame. External circumstances do not exist.

Got it.

Tru dat, I caused that ice storm with my weather machine, and I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling republican patriots!

Jarmak posted:

They can absolutely bypass all of those things, but they didn't, you were fired for cause

I don't know a single person in my immediate circle of friends and coworkers who hasn't been fired for a bullshit cause at least once or twice. But OK. You believe what you want about me based off the way I post on an comedy forum. :rolleyes:

Employers don't even blink at firings out here. Most interviewers don't even loving ask. The only time it's ever caused a problem is when I've applied for out-of-state positions

Mirthless fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 22, 2016

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:09

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

its too bad that it isn't possible for every homeless person to receive the same cushy benefits like food, boarding, clothing, and tricon healthcare that any dumbass like the slithery d can get instead of having to walk down to their local enlistment office, there should be more hoops to get those benefits in the military

maybe after you do a few tours and have some provable PTSD, then you get tricon and have to pay your own way otherwise, that sounds fair

ex post facho fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 22, 2016

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:11

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Every person who doesn't have a job anymore only has themselves to blame. External circumstances do not exist.

Got it.

Do you think individual effort at finding work is a factor in the duration of a person's unemployment?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:12

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

wateroverfire posted:

Do you think individual effort at finding work is a factor in the duration of a person's unemployment?

There are more people who want jobs than there are jobs.

What do you do for the people that don't have jobs?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:13

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

wateroverfire posted:

Do you think individual effort at finding work is a factor in the duration of a person's unemployment?

It's funny how libertarians use supply and demand as their guiding light in politics but forget it loving exists when they're talking about jobs

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:13

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

ToxicSlurpee posted:

There are more people who want jobs than there are jobs.

What do you do for the people that don't have jobs?

Tell them to keep looking because there is a shitload of churn in the US labor market.

Mirthless posted:

It's funny how libertarians use supply and demand as their guiding light in politics but forget it loving exists when they're talking about jobs

So you would answer that no, your individual effort doesn't matter and it is all in the hands of an indifferent god or something?

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:15

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

ToxicSlurpee posted:

There are more people who want jobs than there are jobs.

What do you do for the people that don't have jobs?

bootstraps your way into being a job creator, duh

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:16

The Slithery D: Jul 19, 2012

Twerkteam Pizza posted:

Pfffft, you're suggesting that not letting employers fire people at will is worse than people starving now. I know the second is an extreme case in your mind, but you're the one suggesting employer constraint is much worse than other's material deprecation.

It is! Productive, useful people are not your bitch. You are not entitled to the means to continue your life from random strangers. Take it up with your parents, your god, or your gun.

a shameful boehner posted:

its too bad that it isn't possible for every homeless person to receive the same cushy benefits like food, boarding, clothing, and tricon healthcare that any dumbass like the slithery d can get instead of walking down to their local enlistment office, there should be more hoops to get those benefits in the military

maybe after you do a few tours and have some provable PTSD, then you get tricon and have to pay your own way otherwise, that sounds fair

Not sure where to start on all the wrong in this post. I guess by asking what tricon is.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:17

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

wateroverfire posted:

Tell them to keep looking because there is a shitload of churn in the US labor market.

So you would answer that no, your individual effort doesn't matter and it is all in the hands of an indifferent god or something?

So what about a person whose unemployment ran out, they have $25 to their name, and rent is due tomorrow?

Hey, what about the hundreds of loving thousands of homeless people? It is, to a man, their own fault, right?

Did you ever think the "shitload of churn" might, you know, be a bad thing? That leaves shitloads of people unable to put down roots or advance themselves because oh hey you've been here three years? gently caress you, get out, start back at the bottom at another place that will then boot you out a few years in. Entire industries are run that way and it can't be escaped.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:19

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

a shameful boehner posted:

bootstraps your way into being a job creator, duh

what's the point of owning my own business if i can't even act like a feudal lord toward my employees

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:20

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

a shameful boehner posted:

its too bad that it isn't possible for every homeless person to receive the same cushy benefits like food, boarding, clothing, and tricon healthcare that any dumbass like the slithery d can get instead of having to walk down to their local enlistment office, there should be more hoops to get those benefits in the military

maybe after you do a few tours and have some provable PTSD, then you get tricon and have to pay your own way otherwise, that sounds fair

There's a poo poo ton of hoops to get those benefits from the military, not the least of which would be giving up years of your life, living in conditions that would make you jealous of homeless people, having people try to kill you a bunch of times... oh and chronic pain for the rest of your life.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:21

The Slithery D: Jul 19, 2012

ToxicSlurpee posted:

So what about a person whose unemployment ran out, they have $25 to their name, and rent is due tomorrow?

Hey, what about the hundreds of loving thousands of homeless people? It is, to a man, their own fault, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDkYZWeeVg

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:21

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

wateroverfire posted:

Tell them to keep looking because there is a shitload of churn in the US labor market.

So you would answer that no, your individual effort doesn't matter and it is all in the hands of an indifferent god or something?

I looked very hard for a job the last time I was unemployed. I did everything someone could reasonably expect. Applied for jobs every day. Went to interviews constantly. Had a top-ranked Linkedin for my area and a professionally touched up resume. There was too many people looking in the field in my area because of massive layoffs (the same layoffs I got caught up in) - the supply of workers simply outstripped the demand. I eventually got stuck taking temp jobs that didn't give me benefits and had horrible health problems as a result. I got constantly dicked over by recruiters, too. I can't count the number of bait and switch interviews I had to bail out of mid-way through because it turned out my recruiter just flat-out lied about the position. I had one temp contract that I got loving tricked into and then couldn't get out of becuase I wouldn't be able to restart my benefits if I'd quit. Being unemployed is a goddamn nightmare in some parts of the country.

Jarmak posted:

There's a poo poo ton of hoops to get those benefits from the military, not the least of which would be giving up years of your life, living in conditions that would make you jealous of homeless people, having people try to kill you a bunch of times... oh and chronic pain for the rest of your life.

Here's a person who has no idea what kind of conditions homeless people are living in in the united states

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:23

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

ToxicSlurpee posted:

So what about a person whose unemployment ran out, they have $25 to their name, and rent is due tomorrow?

Stay with friends/family, join a church, go to a shelter, turn to crime, eat a bullet. IDK man.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Hey, what about the hundreds of loving thousands of homeless people? It is, to a man, their own fault, right?

Most chronicly homeless are there because of substance abuse or mental illness, which I think is its own set of issues.

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Did you ever think the "shitload of churn" might, you know, be a bad thing? That leaves shitloads of people unable to put down roots or advance themselves because oh hey you've been here three years? gently caress you, get out, start back at the bottom at another place that will then boot you out a few years in. Entire industries are run that way and it can't be escaped.

People leave jobs for tons of reasons. The less mobility there is in the labor market, the worse life is going to be for the unemployed you're looking to help.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:24

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Jarmak posted:

There's a poo poo ton of hoops to get those benefits from the military, not the least of which would be giving up years of your life, living in conditions that would make you jealous of homeless people, having people try to kill you a bunch of times... oh and chronic pain for the rest of your life.

ah bloo bloo bloo basic training was so hard before my supply warehouse desk job

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:25

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

oh whoops i guess its tricare, as in i should try caring about milgoon opinions on social safety nets when they get the best in the country but i dont

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:25

Twerkteam Pizza: Sep 26, 2015; Grimey Drawer

wateroverfire posted:

Do you think individual effort at finding work is a factor in the duration of a person's unemployment?

Do you think that total GDP is not high enough or that there is a too high level of economic inequality? Which of these is the cause of homelessness in your mind?

Assuming one of these are the problem which do you believe it is? I personally think it's a distribution problem when there are vacant houses and homeless people.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:26

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

wateroverfire posted:

People leave jobs for tons of reasons. The less mobility there is in the labor market, the worse life is going to be for the unemployed you're looking to help.

If your goal is more mobility in the labor market, wouldn't offering unemployment to people who quit their jobs be a solution to that? If you're worried about people just turning jobs into a revolving door, make the quit benefits tied to the number of years you've been on the job or something. Two months of quit-unemployment per year of service up to 1yr of unemployment. Suddenly people who feel enslaved to a low paying dead end job have options and the job market becomes far more fluid overnight.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:27

ex post facho: Oct 25, 2007

nah its a lot easier to just fire people and deny them benefits

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:27

ToxicSlurpee: Nov 5, 2003; -=SEND HELP=-; Pillbug

wateroverfire posted:

Stay with friends/family, join a church, go to a shelter, turn to crime, eat a bullet. IDK man.

Most chronicly homeless are there because of substance abuse or mental illness, which I think is its own set of issues.

People leave jobs for tons of reasons. The less mobility there is in the labor market, the worse life is going to be for the unemployed you're looking to help.

So you're against spending government money helping people with those issues?

And are you seriously saying that encouraging people into crime or suicide is better than government help? Not everybody has those other options and church charities, as it turns out, are hilariously inadequate.

You're either a colossal dumbass or a sociopath. Or both.

You heard it hear, folks! If you can't find a job just loving kill yourself.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:29

DeusExMachinima: Sep 2, 2012; This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!

Put this loser on ignore immediately!

Posters claiming to be after public health in order to hide their desire to get back at that bitch Debra in HR. Good poo poo. As mentioned on previous pages GMI or reformed saner to access welfare at least is more achievable and solves more problems than questionable firing law proposals that may run afoul of free association.

And no, R2W and at-will are different things. As demonstrated by the fact that one existed decades before the other.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:30

Mirthless: Mar 27, 2011; by the sex ghost

DeusExMachinima posted:

Posters claiming to be after public health in order to hide their desire to get back at that bitch Debra in HR. Good poo poo. As mentioned on previous pages GMI or reformed saner to access welfare at least is more achievable and solves more problems than questionable firing law proposals that may run afoul of free association.

And no, R2W and at-will are different things. As demonstrated by the fact that one existed decades before the other.

ITT hiring manager delusions

lol if you think it is saner or easier to pass massive welfare expansions or GMI than it would be to provide even the most basic levels of unemployment reform

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:31

The Slithery D: Jul 19, 2012

a shameful boehner posted:

oh whoops i guess its tricare, as in i should try caring about milgoon opinions on social safety nets when they get the best in the country but i dont

I'm banned from the milgoon forum because I also don't care about their self indulgent bullshit. (Ok, and lots and lots of trolling.)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:32

wateroverfire: Jul 3, 2010

Twerkteam Pizza posted:

Do you think that total GDP is not high enough or that there is a too high level of economic inequality? Which of these is the cause of homelessness in your mind?

The causes of homelessness are complex and yelling INEQUALITY at them is not going to help much.

Twerkteam Pizza posted:

Assuming one of these are the problem which do you believe it is? I personally think it's a distribution problem when there are vacant houses and homeless people.

That probably sounded so sick but...what would you do, really? Relocate urban homeless in say NYC to exurban detroit to homestead?

Mirthless posted:

If your goal is more mobility in the labor market, wouldn't offering unemployment to people who quit their jobs be a solution to that? If you're worried about people just turning jobs into a revolving door, make the quit benefits tied to the number of years you've been on the job or something. Two months of quit-unemployment per year of service up to 1yr of unemployment. Suddenly people who feel enslaved to a low paying dead end job have options and the job market becomes far more fluid overnight.

That's an interesting idea. Make it 1 month per year funded by a 12% mandatory employee contribution into an individual account, and sure.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:34

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

what, no i'm not an inherently evil and selfish person i'm just more concerned with people getting too much that they don't deserve rather than they not having enough things like food and shelter

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:35

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 09:37

The Slithery D: Jul 19, 2012

ToxicSlurpee posted:

So you're against spending government money helping people with those issues?

And are you seriously saying that encouraging people into crime or suicide is better than government help? Not everybody has those other options and church charities, as it turns out, are hilariously inadequate.

You're either a colossal dumbass or a sociopath. Or both.

You heard it hear, folks! If you can't find a job just loving kill yourself.

He didn't suggest crime, and suicide as a last resort. And if you're faced with killing yourself, at least I can be sure you're actually doing everything you can, rather than whining about how hard it all is and asking for a handout.

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

what, no i'm not an inherently evil and selfish person i'm just more concerned with people getting too much that they don't deserve rather than they not having enough things like food and shelter

This guy gets it.

# ? Mar 22, 2016 20:36

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Techbros speak out: homeless people need to lose their last shreds of pride

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