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JohannesSilentio posted:Most but not all it would seem. Although blanket condemnations or acts of xenophobic violence are not the correct response, Wahhabism is a branch of Sunni Islam with at least a few million adherents. Trying to extricate the beliefs of IS from Islam, or delude yourself into thinking these attacks have nothing to do with Islam, is to ignore the attackers stated reasons for attacking us and the doctrine that justifies it. Even as much of a poison as Wahhabism is, even a strict Wahhabist would consider ISIS interepretation of Islam as heretical. Wahhabists are all about Quranic literalism, which does state that there are five foundations for the Islamic faith.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:35
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Lyesh posted:Usual reminder that the US has drone-striked more civilians in the last year than terrorists who follow Islam have murdered people in the West. and you are posting in the main bastion of drone enthusiasts also belgium is the leader in drone proliferation
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Mar 22, 2016 21:35
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FourLeaf posted:Yeah we pretty much subsidize them. Makes any proposed solution utterly useless if we don't deal with that. Yeah and if any Europeans here are crooning about getting their poo poo from Russia, that cash goes straight to Assad who is the biggest customer for oil...straight from ISIS. Were not only funding terrorism but the refugee crisis too, and some have the gall to whine about the people who flee from the people we give money and guns to.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:36
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steinrokkan posted:and you are posting in the main bastion of drone enthusiasts No, I'm posting at a bunch of people acting like muslims are uniquely violent. The US is plenty loving violent, it's just far far far richer, so it can afford to keep the blood of the hands of its people.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:38
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Lyesh posted:Usual reminder that the US has drone-striked more civilians in the last year than terrorists who follow Islam have murdered people in the West. Well that's very nice for the US???
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Mar 22, 2016 21:38
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Lyesh posted:No, I'm posting at a bunch of people acting like muslims are uniquely violent. The US is plenty loving violent, it's just far far far richer, so it can afford to keep the blood of the hands of its people. they also don't celebrate their mistakes
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Mar 22, 2016 21:40
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steinrokkan posted:they also don't celebrate their mistakes They don't admit they made any in the first place.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:41
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GaussianCopula posted:Search all homes, especially given that at least 2 terrorists are still on the run. just to recap you've gone from "search the muslims because they're probably complicit" to "search everyone" so you started out at racist and fascist, and now you're just straight into fascism get bent
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Mar 22, 2016 21:42
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Ah good I'm glad we could get down to the real bad guys in this bombing in Belgium, Amerikkka
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Mar 22, 2016 21:43
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Quorum posted:Ah good I'm glad we could get down to the real bad guys in this bombing in Belgium, Amerikkka I think the real bad guys are all of us posting in this thread
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Mar 22, 2016 21:44
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kustomkarkommando posted:I think the real bad guys are all of us posting in this thread i'd like to emphasize the world "guys" here
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Mar 22, 2016 21:46
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'd like to emphasize the world "guys" here I apologise to any nasty ladies or unpleasant otherwise gendered individuals
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Mar 22, 2016 21:47
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Quorum posted:Ah good I'm glad we could get down to the real bad guys in this bombing in Belgium, Amerikkka death to america google ron paul kill you are founding fathers
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Mar 22, 2016 21:47
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Quorum posted:Ah good I'm glad we could get down to the real bad guys in this bombing in Belgium, Amerikkka Well it would help if they didn't bankroll the guys who bankrolled the bombing in Belgium I'm not saying they necessarily want the oil money to go where it goes but they sure don't seem to care that much
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Mar 22, 2016 21:48
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steinrokkan posted:they also don't celebrate their mistakes They also don't have opportunities to kill military leaders or the absurdly high level of asymmetry in force that the US has against them. Executing a head of state would be seen as FAR FAR FAR more provocative than anything that any terrorist group has managed at all. And certainly moreso than any of the civilians who have been murdered. I'm not saying that the people behind these attacks are good. I'm saying that they do not pose any sort of threat that justifies the use of anything beyond the normal powers of law enforcement, nor should their fellows be blamed or murdered in exchange.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:49
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Quorum posted:Ah good I'm glad we could get down to the real bad guys in this bombing in Belgium, Amerikkka If you don't want amerikkka to come up, don't talk about how Islam is uniquely violent when there exists a military whose express purpose is to be able to fight every single other country on earth simultaneously.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:51
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Lyesh posted:If you don't want amerikkka to come up, don't talk about how Islam is uniquely violent when there exists a military whose express purpose is to be able to fight every single other country on earth simultaneously. America will fite you IRL, you wanker, what did you say about our mum, we'll drone you in the gob we will
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Mar 22, 2016 21:54
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Lyesh posted:Usual reminder that the US has drone-striked more civilians in the last year than terrorists who follow Islam have murdered people in the West. Not a big fan of drones or this equivalence, but I am fairly sure this is also factually wrong.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:54
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Quorum posted:America will fite you IRL, you wanker, what did you say about our mum, we'll drone you in the gob we will ...and this country's name was albert einstein
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Mar 22, 2016 21:59
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Lyesh posted:If you don't want amerikkka to come up, don't talk about how Islam is uniquely violent when there exists a military whose express purpose is to be able to fight every single other country on earth simultaneously. I doubt they could actually manage that, by the way, given how they could barely fight Afghanistan and Iraq simultaneously.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:01
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Cat Mattress posted:I doubt they could actually manage that, by the way, given how they could barely fight Afghanistan and Iraq simultaneously. I said fight, not conquer.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:05
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JohannesSilentio posted:Why is it problematic to discuss the ideology of the terrorists who committed the act in question? Should Islam be exempt from critique or comparison to another Abrahamic faith? Well, is always the same discussion, with the same arguments from both sides. Perhaps an "Islam Megathread" would be better for this?
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Mar 22, 2016 22:15
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Elias_Maluco posted:Well, is always the same discussion, with the same arguments from both sides. Perhaps an "Islam Megathread" would be better for this? This was attempted and descended into madness almost immediately.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:18
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kustomkarkommando posted:This was attempted and descended into madness almost immediately. I can't say I'm surprised.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:19
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OwlFancier posted:They don't admit they made any in the first place. That sort of depends on the government and who's in it. We've had plenty of leaders who admit our cockups, and we've had plenty who blamed them on other people. The military is a violent institution by nature, and we have plenty of bible bangers in office who do want a holy war and neocons who just want imperial wars. But that doesn't apply to all our leaders or everyone in power.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:23
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kustomkarkommando posted:This was attempted and descended into madness almost immediately. So basically islam is to religion as GUN is to policy in forumsland.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:24
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kustomkarkommando posted:This was attempted and descended into madness almost immediately. If you're talking about the ask/tell, I actually enjoyed it before it collapsed, which took slightly longer than immediately.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:24
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MysteriousStranger posted:That sort of depends on the government and who's in it. We've had plenty of leaders who admit our cockups, and we've had plenty who blamed them on other people. The military is a violent institution by nature, and we have plenty of bible bangers in office who do want a holy war and neocons who just want imperial wars. But that doesn't apply to all our leaders or everyone in power. Or they do wishy-washy stuff like: "When we sent a flying gunship to repeatedly bomb a hospital and gun anyone fleeing from the burning ruins, with multiple passes over an entire hour, it was a mistake. Our bad."
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Mar 22, 2016 22:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:If you're talking about the ask/tell, I actually enjoyed it before it collapsed, which took slightly longer than immediately. No there was a thread opened after the Paris attack to try to contain the crazy that lasted a while - there was some good posts in it breaking down specific hadith and jurisprudence but most of it was just howls from the shadows
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Mar 22, 2016 22:28
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kustomkarkommando posted:No there was a thread opened after the Paris attack to try to contain the crazy that lasted a while - there was some good posts in it breaking down specific hadith and jurisprudence but most of it was just howls from the shadows it was real bad
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Mar 22, 2016 22:29
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any new updates, I was at class all day. all i know is at least 34 dead and maybe suspects. and ISIS claimed credit. and GOP said awful poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:29
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Volkerball posted:it was real good ftfy Dapper_Swindler posted:any new updates, I was at class all day. all i know is at least 34 dead and maybe suspects. and ISIS claimed credit. and GOP said awful poo poo. Nah that's basically it. Unless you didn't know Eurofascists and goons also said awful poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:36
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CommieGIR posted:No it's not that's been refuted multiple times in this very thread it's not my fault you can't bother to actually go read the link You can't 'refute' religious arguments since they're a pile of nonsense to begin with. Whether or not you or anyone else thinks the terrorists espouse a 'true' version of Islam (what a concept in itself!) - that's what they think, and that what matters. You won't change the behaviour of Islamist extremists with theological argument or political negotiation. I don't want us to understand them or accommodate them, I want the jackboot grinding on their face until there are none of them left.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:any new updates, I was at class all day. Celebrating?
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Mar 22, 2016 22:39
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Nermal posted:You won't change the behaviour of men with gender studies arguments or political negotiation. I don't want us to understand them or accommodate them, I want the jackboot grinding on their face until there are none of them left. same
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Mar 22, 2016 22:40
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Nermal posted:You won't change the behaviour of Islamist extremists with theological argument or political negotiation. I don't want us to understand them or accommodate them, I want the jackboot grinding on their face until there are none of them left. this was the strategy in iraq from 2003-2007. 
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Mar 22, 2016 22:41
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blowfish posted:So basically islam is to religion as GUN is to policy in forumsland. Religion is to religion. See some of kyrie eleison's greatest hits
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Mar 22, 2016 22:42
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kustomkarkommando posted:No there was a thread opened after the Paris attack to try to contain the crazy that lasted a while - there was some good posts in it breaking down specific hadith and jurisprudence but most of it was just howls from the shadows Oh, I remember that and probably grabbed my spear to engage. Ask tell was so much better, obviously, despite the inevitable trolls boiling across the ramparts. Edit: poo poo, I forgot about kyrie. That was amazing, time traveler from the Wars of Religion who probably personally murdered some Hussites. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 22, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 22:47
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JohannesSilentio posted:Most but not all it would seem. Although blanket condemnations or acts of xenophobic violence are not the correct response, Wahhabism is a branch of Sunni Islam with at least a few million adherents. Here's the problem, though: even Wahhabism isn't the problem here. The vast majority of Wahhabi Muslims aren't involved in terrorism in any way, shape, or form. And Wahhabism accounts for roughly 0.5% of Muslims worldwide. Most Wahhabists would object pretty strongly to ISIS' alterations to the Qu'ran, as well. quote:Trying to extricate the beliefs of IS from Islam, or delude yourself into thinking these attacks have nothing to do with Islam, is to ignore the attackers stated reasons for attacking us and the doctrine that justifies it. The mentality you're taking here is pretty short-sighted. It would be like someone looking at Warren Jeffs of the FLDS church and say, "Christianity's the problem!" Well, no, it's really not - most Christians would consider that sect's beliefs to be heretical and non-Christian, and the same would likely be true with most Muslims looking at ISIS' core tenets.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:53
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Nermal posted:You can't 'refute' religious arguments since they're a pile of nonsense to begin with. Whether or not you or anyone else thinks the terrorists espouse a 'true' version of Islam (what a concept in itself!) - that's what they think, and that what matters. Where were you for 10 years? We did that. It doesn't work. Know why? Because Islam and Islamic fundamentalist are a symptom of a deeper issuer, one that you are too busy ignoring in favor of right wing strongarm tactics.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:58
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