|
CommieGIR posted:Where were you for 10 years? We did that. It doesn't work. Indeed, we battled the enemy so hard that he formed enclaves in our very capitals where his assassins may walk unmolested. If the past ten years was 'rightwing strongarm tactics' I can only imagine what appeasement would be.
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
Majorian posted:The mentality you're taking here is pretty short-sighted. It would be like someone looking at Warren Jeffs of the FLDS church and say, "Christianity's the problem!" Well, no, it's really not - most Christians would consider that sect's beliefs to be heretical and non-Christian, and the same would likely be true with most Muslims looking at ISIS' core tenets. This unfortunately does not seem to be an accurate comparison.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:09
|
|
|
MysteriousStranger posted:That sort of depends on the government and who's in it. We've had plenty of leaders who admit our cockups, and we've had plenty who blamed them on other people. The military is a violent institution by nature, and we have plenty of bible bangers in office who do want a holy war and neocons who just want imperial wars. But that doesn't apply to all our leaders or everyone in power. The best that ever happens is "terrible that it happened but it wasn't intentional and no it's not going to stop us doing it again" which isn't really admitting a mistake. It's basically "killing civvies isn't the point but we don't actually care if it happens". Stiletto heel, surely?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:This unfortunately does not seem to be an accurate comparison. Because of the overall death toll? Probably not, but that's where things like history come into play.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:14
|
|
Nermal posted:Indeed, we battled the enemy so hard that he formed enclaves in our very capitals where his assassins may walk unmolested. If the past ten years was 'rightwing strongarm tactics' I can only imagine what appeasement would be. What exactly are the limits of the violence you wish to unleash? Who would be spared?
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:What exactly are the limits of the violence you wish to unleash? Who would be spared? first, we're going to need a shitload of paper bags,
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:16
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:What exactly are the limits of the violence you wish to unleash? Who would be spared? Europeans and their pasty American cousins have a hardon for putting people they don't like in camps. I can imagine after this and Cruz's statement about a muslim patrol that Trump le Pen et. al. will up the stakes and demand for summer camps
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:17
|
|
|
I want to give everyone in this thread a big hug, mostly because I am ill with a very contagious gastrointestinal virus
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:17
|
|
|
Nermal posted:Indeed, we battled the enemy so hard that he formed enclaves in our very capitals where his assassins may walk unmolested. If the past ten years was 'rightwing strongarm tactics' I can only imagine what appeasement would be.  , build a border wall around the continent with paper bag tests at the gates. Also put a secret policeman on every street corner.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:17
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
Nermal posted:Indeed, we battled the enemy so hard that he formed enclaves in our very capitals where his assassins may walk unmolested. If the past ten years was 'rightwing strongarm tactics' I can only imagine what appeasement would be. I don't think it's really enclaves as much as you don't walk around looking like an assassin's creed character if you're going to shoot people. Maybe because people who go on killing sprees are mostly just like you and me so they don't stand out?!!?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
Nermal posted:Whether or not you or anyone else thinks the terrorists espouse a 'true' version of Islam (what a concept in itself!) - that's what they think, and that what matters. It matters because isolating them from the worldwide Islamic community would cut off a massive amount of the support that they need to keep operating. I don't think you've thought this through all that deeply. Nermal posted:Indeed, we battled the enemy so hard that he formed enclaves in our very capitals where his assassins may walk unmolested. If the past ten years was 'rightwing strongarm tactics' I can only imagine what appeasement would be. Perhaps - and this is going to sound crazy, I know, but bear with me - perhaps the poo poo we've been doing for the last couple decades has been counterproductive? Perhaps it's even aided Islamist terrorist groups in their recruitment efforts?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
but how will i keep my secret ninja identity hidden without wearing a black body suit 24/7???
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:20
|
|
|
blowfish posted:
 That border wall all around the continent will also be useful to deal with rising ocean levels caused by global warming; and the hiring program to get enough secret policemen will solve the unemployment crisis.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
JohannesSilentio posted:No, 'hatred' is not an ideology, and trying to state that the reasons for today's attack in Brussels was solely on the basis of 'hatred' ignores their own stated reasons. Their doctrine is fundamentally rooted in Islam, in particular the Wahhabist interpretation. Hatred is the output of this ideology. Again, I don't understand why we have to circumvent this in the discussion of IS. I think they're saying that hatred is what underlies any specific ideology. They're pissed off and violent, and they'll latch on to whatever vector best allows them to express it. Right now, Wahhabism is the most effective vector, which is why we're seeing these mental defectives gravitate toward it, regardless of race. If it weren't there, these people would just latch on to some other nonsense. This isn't to say we oughtn't do the utmost to extinguish Wahhabi ideology from the earth, but let's not pretend we'd suddenly live in peace and harmony otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
Truly all these extremists merely need hugs and free gifts from the Great Satan to settle down and realise that killing yourself in the name of god isnt the best idea.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:41
|
|
|
HapiMerchant posted:Truly all these extremists merely need hugs and free gifts from the Great Satan to settle down and realise that killing yourself in the name of god isnt the best idea. I love how for right-wingers it's either "declare war on Islam!" or "give them hugs and free gifts and maybe they'll leave us alone!" No middle ground in between or anything. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:47
|
|
|
There's a clear problem of extremism that must be solved with force. The only reason these people can operate is because of the support network, so long as that network remains, more attacks will occur. Pretending that discrimination is the only factor is absurd, as is pretending that the lack of integration isn't contributing to both the extremism and the discrimination.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:51
|
|
|
Majorian posted:It matters because isolating them from the worldwide Islamic community would cut off a massive amount of the support that they need to keep operating. I don't think you've thought this through all that deeply. Cut off their support by theological argument. Let's make that plan B. blowfish posted:
Does ironic defeatism feel good to you on a day when over thirty people are murdered?
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:53
|
|
|
I dont have to worry about terrorism because im gay.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
blowfish posted:ftfy i can believe that. PT6A posted:I think they're saying that hatred is what underlies any specific ideology. They're pissed off and violent, and they'll latch on to whatever vector best allows them to express it. Right now, Wahhabism is the most effective vector, which is why we're seeing these mental defectives gravitate toward it, regardless of race. If it weren't there, these people would just latch on to some other nonsense. pretty much. wahabism or an kind of radical sect of any faith attracts the mentaly ill/deranged and the angry disenfranchised. but getting rid of wahabiness would only solve the problem so far. the nut jobs will find another violent outlet anyway. Majorian posted:I love how for right-wingers it's either "declare war on Islam!" or "give them hugs and free gifts and maybe they'll leave us alone!" No middle ground in between or anything. whats trump said? i assume something terrible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:55
|
|
|
Nermal posted:Cut off their support by theological argument. Let's make that plan B. yeah the guy who wants to genocide syrians is accusing others of ironic defeatism take a hike, clown
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:56
|
|
|
Nermal posted:
That amount of people get murdered in north st. louis on average every two months and yet we haven't gone in and razed the area and put every resident's head on a spike.
|
|
#
?
Mar 22, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
rudatron posted:There's a clear problem of extremism that must be solved with force. The only reason these people can operate is because of the support network, so long as that network remains, more attacks will occur. Pretending that discrimination is the only factor is absurd, as is pretending that the lack of integration isn't contributing to both the extremism and the discrimination. Do you need much of a support network to build bombs? Seems like you could just buy the stuff for that if you knew the right people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:00
|
|
|
Nermal posted:Cut off their support by theological argument. Let's make that plan B. Nope. Better to make it plan A, instead of your ridiculous bluster, because that's what people who actually know how to fight terrorism are saying we should do. e: Here, if anyone wants to know how to defeat the Islamic State, give this a listen. It's 45 minutes, but it's well worth your time. rudatron posted:There's a clear problem of extremism that must be solved with force. The only reason these people can operate is because of the support network, so long as that network remains, more attacks will occur. Pretending that discrimination is the only factor is absurd, as is pretending that the lack of integration isn't contributing to both the extremism and the discrimination. Where do you think these support networks exist? Against whom do we need to employ force? Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
PT6A posted:I think they're saying that hatred is what underlies any specific ideology. They're pissed off and violent, and they'll latch on to whatever vector best allows them to express it. Right now, Wahhabism is the most effective vector, which is why we're seeing these mental defectives gravitate toward it, regardless of race. If it weren't there, these people would just latch on to some other nonsense. Gotta say, I do often like the contributions of Pei Tei Zex Ay.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:12
|
|
|
HapiMerchant posted:Truly all these extremists merely need hugs and free gifts from the Great Satan to settle down and realise that killing yourself in the name of god isnt the best idea. Was this a response to me? I believe quite the opposite; I think these people need to be killed or imprisoned because they're completely broken, I'm just saying that Wahhabism is not the alpha and omega of the problem. The honky motherfucker who converts to Islam and goes from Calgary and gets blown to loving bits in Syria was never going to be anything but a drain on society in some way. The precise focus of his delusions are inconsequential.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
I think that Islamic violence can be primarily explained by one of two things (or both), depending upon the form it takes: 1. Anti-western violence by Muslims originating from Middle Eastern countries - The primary cause of this is likely the massive extent to which western countries have hosed up the Middle East. I have yet to see any of the "terrorists are doing terror because they're Muslim" people in this thread (or anywhere, really) give a reason why this is not a valid explanation for the situation. 2. Violence (including stuff like FGM) within some primarily-Muslim countries, like Indonesia - This can be explained by either the existence of "third-world" conditions in the country or the existence of very poor governance for whatever reason. We also see this stuff going on in non-predominantly Muslim countries in Africa. While it isn't impossible for Islam to be an important causative factor in and of itself, it doesn't seem to make much sense to come to that conclusion. If you looked at any period of time prior to the last century or so, there would be no correlation between violence and Islam (if anything you'd see the vast majority of violence coming from majority-Christian nations). If you go back more than a few centuries, there isn't even much of a correlation between Islam and what is commonly considered "societal advancement", so it also doesn't make sense to come to some conclusion that Islam inherently causes societies to be backwards or something. The analogy comparing Islam with leftist politics is a pretty good one; assuming Islam to be the primarily (or even a significant) cause of terrorism/violence is very similar to assuming leftism to be a cause of violence due to actions of the USSR/China. In reality, the causal factors were different and there was simply a correlation during that period of history. The "Islam is correlated with violence" stuff would carry more significance if we lived in a world with a larger number of major religions and greater variety in the regions we consider to be politically and technologically advanced. But historical circumstances have lead to a bunch of Christian countries being the cultural/economic leaders, and this heavily distorts things. There are countries like South Korea and Japan, but they didn't have much power until the past century or so (especially South Korean) and benefited from the fact that they were relatively free from harmful Western involvement during the heyday of colonialism. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:13
|
|
|
Terrorism is more than just building bombs, it's a social network of funding, recruitment, shelter and encouragement. Find the people doing any of that, punish them. There clearly isn't a series enough effort if these attacks keep happening.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
Wow! I finally got to see the CRAP rating on a thread. Thanks everyone, who contributed to it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:18
|
|
|
I'd kind of like to have a comprehensive list of religious ideologies that have been successfully eradicated via the sword. Has there been any? A single one?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
rudatron posted:Terrorism is more than just building bombs, it's a social network of funding, recruitment, shelter and encouragement. Find the people doing any of that, punish them. There clearly isn't a series enough effort if these attacks keep happening. Reactive thinking. Better to be proactive. Eliminate the environment that makes radicalization appealing: Socioeconomic Inequality, disenfranchisement, undereducation. And apply it to everyone. If third and beyond generation immigrants are being radicalized that's become a fault of the society they live in, not the one their parents came from. Terrorist organizers and masterminds are nothing without an army of people doing their bidding. Ddraig posted:I'd kind of like to have a comprehensive list of religious ideologies that have been successfully eradicated via the sword. I believe a few cults and sects. But not without the death of all their adherents. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Mar 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:22
|
|
|
crap rating achieved, good job everyone!
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
rudatron posted:Terrorism is more than just building bombs, it's a social network of funding, recruitment, shelter and encouragement. Find the people doing any of that, punish them. There clearly isn't a series enough effort if these attacks keep happening. Counterterrorism efforts don't exactly happen overnight. It takes a while to follow the breadcrumbs, find out who is aiding whom, decide how to deal with them, and then pick up the next lead. Rigged Death Trap posted:Reactive thinking. Better to be proactive. That too. Make terrorist recruitment as difficult as possible.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
Ddraig posted:I'd kind of like to have a comprehensive list of religious ideologies that have been successfully eradicated via the sword. One doesn't see many Cathars these days.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
 Hot Takes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
Again, you're working on the assumption that people actually want to stop terrorism. They don't. If they did, there would probably be a good breadcrumb trail leading from our dearest ally we could probably follow. But we won't. Because we don't care.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:
I mean, her insight has been so helpful in the GWOT so far... Ddraig posted:Again, you're working on the assumption that people actually want to stop terrorism. They don't. If they did, there would probably be a good breadcrumb trail leading from our dearest ally we could probably follow. Who, exactly, are "people," "they," "our dearest ally," etc?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
Nonsense posted:
Is she actually still relevant? Last time I heard about her, Dubya had not invaded Iraq yet.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:39
|
|
|
Let us beep boop amoral this. For those who say "we should not simply kill all muslims" I ask of you "what does islam offer the world" and the counter point "What does the rest of the world (the thing islam hates and wants rid of) offer us" Oh and I eagerly await the "if you're going to judge the world via what benefits [thing] can give you better kill yourself because you don't offer anything"  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 23:38 |
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:Reactive thinking. Better to be proactive. They're not mutually exclusive. Some of the faults may well be related to leniency re: Salafis and the like, besides.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2016 00:41
|
|
