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Archer666 posted:Goddamn it I'm going to reply this, because I really don't understand this way of thinking. Does it assume that the mystery person not giving her the benefit of the doubt automatically gives it to males? Or that it lumps scepticism together with "Women's ideas were unfairly questioned throughout history"? I'm legit confused.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 14:41 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 11:40 |
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The more ya'll post about this the more I like her and think this perspective is super valuable. So thanks!
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 14:55 |
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Hbomberguy posted:What about the concept of mansplaining confuses you? A lot, really. But now I know that's what she meant, I'll drop the subject before it gets messy. Speaking of feminism, Brad takes a look at Wonder Woman! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PKIiySCXhc
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 14:58 |
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A Gnarlacious Bro posted:The more ya'll post about this the more I like her and think this perspective is super valuable. So thanks! It is absolutely super loving valuable, which is why I wish she would actually express this perspective instead of just allude to it. But she won't, because she knows that if she would come outright and say "I don't think it's great that the default form of gameplay is the celebration of violence", it would discredit her in the eyes of a whole lot of people who are otherwise onboard with her 100%. It would make her look like the stereotypical "girl-who-doesn't-like-violent-games", when by all accounts she admittedly does enjoy violent games.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 15:16 |
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nine-gear crow posted:That actually does sound like a great premise for a game. An elaborate trolling simulator built around Hitman's engine would be fantastic.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 15:27 |
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like he said, it would be fantastic
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 15:31 |
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DStecks posted:It is absolutely super loving valuable, which is why I wish she would actually express this perspective instead of just allude to it. That seems like a tricky spot to be in, so I guess I don't mind alluding to it. Especially since speaking about it in terms of mechanics might, as you said, be more accessible to people who otherwise might have knee-jerk reactions against a woman being "soft" about violence.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 15:31 |
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I know when I play WH40K Space Marine, I'm really yearning for the option to explain to the Orks why killing is bad while wearing fun costumes.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 16:20 |
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Anita can have actual lovely opinions too. I understand she's in a bad position given she's the lightning rod for GamerGate bullshit and the sheer hatred slung her way is sickening, but if she agrees with all that stuff about all violence in video games being bad, that doesn't make her other points less valid, it just means she's a three dimensional person who can't be all good or all bad depending on the viewer.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 17:04 |
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WickedHate posted:but if she agrees with all that stuff about all violence in video games being bad
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 17:54 |
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Max Wilco posted:I cannot stand McIntosh. The stuff he's tweeted has seriously pissed me off; from saying that Batman 'doesn't express fear despite Arkham Knight being about fear', to saying that Fallout is 'constructed around some deeply conservative right-wing ideological assumptions' (which totally baffles me), and stuff that only really annoys me specifically. Can we talk about how McIntosh lists himself as "a pop culture hacker and transformative storyteller?" The pop culture hacker bit is just a really douchey way of calling himself a critic, but the transformative storyteller bit really sticks out. Since as far as I can tell, he's never written fiction outside of a few YouTube mashups. But he still refers to himself as such in every bio for every project he's a part of. Sometimes it's explained as the storytelling in his mashup videos, but even then, I'm not sure if it can really be declared "transformative." His Donald Duck video was pretty well made, but I don't think it fundamentally reshaped a medium. I know it's probably a minor thing, but listing your occupation as "I transform popular culture through my art" is lovely enough when it isn't technically untrue. CaligulaKangaroo fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Mar 23, 2016 |
# ? Mar 22, 2016 18:46 |
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McIntosh's example of "hypermasculinity" is a Captain America: Civil War There's something deeply wrong with this strain of progressivism, this school of people constantly battling against the "toxic". It's politics of discomfort and not equality.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 19:08 |
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Masculinity isn't inherently toxic, people are allowed to have a romanticized image of the role they play in life. It's only when those roles are imposed on people who don't necessarily want them, and when they encourage ignorance to the detriment of others (i.e. treating women like garbage) that they become an issue. Captain America is a pretty drat positive masculine role model, at least as he's shown in the movies. I also never saw it but Leon Thomas said that Magic Mike 2 was a really good "male empowerment" movie that worked well with the modern age. There isn't wrong with these stories that push strong male role models existing, the issue is that other perspectives aren't sufficiently represented. This isn't just a political issue either, we need more variety in general, not just with the people we show but the stories we tell. I actually do think that more non-violent video games would be nice, just because it would encourage a lot of creativity and innovation in storytelling and we could use some more variety in the industry. Journey was a fantastic game with zero combat. That doesn't mean every violent video game is bad though and that violent video games are toxic, conflict is where all storytelling comes from and "kill these guys before they kill you" is a pretty simple conflict that works well as an excuse for gameplay. Death is a very obvious fail state and beating the bad guys is a very obvious win state, of course these are going to be prevalent in games. Augus fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Mar 22, 2016 |
# ? Mar 22, 2016 19:41 |
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People can say things about movies and then you can disagree with them later and everything is fine.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 19:43 |
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Another thing worthy of note on the ubiquity of video game violence is that it's kinda-sorta partly endemic-ish to the medium. Computers have a very difficult time representing anything but spatial simulations in a way that is easily understood or learned by humans, and spatial simulations by their nature make it very easy to construct compelling representations of combat or similar conflict and very very difficult to represent more abstract or mental issues. It's easy to teach a computer how to calculate simple jump or bullet physics. It's rather more difficult to teach a computer to love, or to hold a grudge. Campster talked about that at some length waaaaaaay back.
Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 22, 2016 |
# ? Mar 22, 2016 21:29 |
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While you nerds were talking about assassins wearing dresses and whether a story called Hitman should be violent, Miss Wallace put out her Patreon Q&A Session, which is about an hour long. If you're following her there (and you should be) go give it a watch. Plus she answered my questions, which makes me feel superior. edit: And Brad put out a message where he talks a bit about his state of mind, but he's doing better since the breakup. Just needs a few days here and there. And I guess he's been dealing with depression for a long time, which is news to me. He's back on track (for the most part) and his God's Not Dead 2 review should be out in the next couple weeks. MrSlam fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 22, 2016 |
# ? Mar 22, 2016 21:57 |
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Spiritus Nox posted:Another thing worthy of note on the ubiquity of video game violence is that it's kinda-sorta partly endemic-ish to the medium. Computers have a very difficult time representing anything but spatial simulations in a way that is easily understood or learned by humans, and spatial simulations by their nature make it very easy to construct compelling representations of combat or similar conflict and very very difficult to represent more abstract or mental issues. It's easy to teach a computer how to calculate simple jump or bullet physics. It's rather more difficult to teach a computer to love, or to hold a grudge. Campster talked about that at some length waaaaaaay back. It's a mix of both the way the medium functions and the essence of human media itself. To quote the ever-enlighteningly-wonderful Tim Rogers, whose dog is my avatar: Tim Rogers' 17,000+ word review of Bioshock which Everyone Should Read posted:Once upon a time, game design genius Clifford “CliffyB” Bleszinski said, in an interview, that because raycasting is such a simple function in 3D simulations, it’s easy to make a game understand when any given point is geometrically aligned with another. Bleszinski said that entertainment experiences, in general, are about reaching out and touching people, and that because of the ease of raycasting and its natural similarity to aiming and pointing a gun, games, as entertainment, are more often than not about “reaching out and touching someone with your gun”. The real question, if I'm permitted to throw my lot in as to what that is, isn't whether violent media is good or bad or influential in some straightforward way. Violence is inherent, and, under capitalism, both systemic and inescapable. The question is how we as humans read violence in art and how we deal with it in reality. Anita's tweets about Hitman are grasping at an answer to this sort of question a bajillion times harder than the thousands of people who just want to get self-righteously angry at Some Lady's Opinion, defending the 'rights' of a game developer to make violent games as if that's what's at stake here at all.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 22:01 |
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quote:Chapter Two: Let’s keep talking about the box art. I'm liking this guy despite his efforts otherwise.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 22:10 |
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Hbomberguy posted:Anita's tweets about Hitman are grasping at an answer to this sort of question a bajillion times harder than the thousands of people who just want to get self-righteously angry at Some Lady's Opinion, defending the 'rights' of a game developer to make violent games as if that's what's at stake here at all. That's what sucks about this.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 22:14 |
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I don't get why people in this thread must act like she is 100% right and anyone who think otherwise is a evil gator. I mean I love Neil Degrasse Tyson and George takei but even I think he post on twitter can get dumb at times (mainly Neil) and I get Anita's point and how games seem to use violent as a default gameplay mode. I welcome more shooters like splatoon then something that is just gritty like the division which I have in interest in. but I feel it should be fine to disagree with anyone without being called names.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 22:45 |
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Cyron posted:I don't get why people in this thread must act like she is 100% right and anyone who think otherwise is a evil gator. You are writing fan fiction. Don't do that.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:01 |
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DStecks posted:Which are basically exhibits A and B in the case of how shitlords make it impossible to critically engage with Anita's points when she talks about stuff that's in a greyer area than "maybe game women shouldn't exist purely to be sex objects and murder victims". And I'm saying this as somebody who agrees with every single word of Tropes vs. Women in Games. DStecks posted:Those are not the words of somebody who "doesn't really care", that's literally first-level GG rhetoric. are you sure? this thread ues to be great before it become Dstecks blog. Cyron fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 22, 2016 |
# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:05 |
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Spiritus Nox posted:Another thing worthy of note on the ubiquity of video game violence is that it's kinda-sorta partly endemic-ish to the medium. Computers have a very difficult time representing anything but spatial simulations in a way that is easily understood or learned by humans, and spatial simulations by their nature make it very easy to construct compelling representations of combat or similar conflict and very very difficult to represent more abstract or mental issues. It's easy to teach a computer how to calculate simple jump or bullet physics. It's rather more difficult to teach a computer to love, or to hold a grudge. Campster talked about that at some length waaaaaaay back. Yeah, it's a reenforcing cycle. The people who built the infrastructure valued spatial simulation (because it's super-duper useful for all kinds of Real Job tasks, like engineering and geology) which made the computers good at spatial simulation which starts the whole cycle of using, developing, and improving the spatial simulations. It's not that it's more difficult to teach a computer to hold a grudge (spatial simulation is so complex that many of us buy an entire mini-computer to put into our computer just to run spatial calculations) it's that grudge-holding-technology has a four-decade lag on raytracing.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:17 |
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Violent video games exist because violence is fun.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:20 |
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Cyron posted:are you sure? this thread ues to be great before it become Cyron blog. Ftfy
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:21 |
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prahanormal posted:Ftfy To be fair, DStecks is an even worse poster. And I can't believe these men may control the fate of the Middle East.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:24 |
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LFK posted:Yeah, it's a reenforcing cycle. We've been working on believable social interactions with computers for about fifty years, you're conflating two different kinds of complexity in this characterization. Spatial simulation is complex in the sense that the computations take a lot of operations. Believable social interactions are complex in the sense that we're still working on finding a way to compute it in the first place.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:25 |
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Do you want to see this computer tell a nuanced story about gender politics and the role of women in post-sexual revolution Europe, or do you want to see it sock a few zingers!
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:32 |
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One person saying "I agree with Anita Sarkeesian 100%" is not equivalent to pretending there's a rule that "people in this thread must act like she is 100% right and anyone who think otherwise is a evil gator." If DStecks being a bad poster is too much for you you might want to try not making their opinions the basis for how you think about everyone else in the thread.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:33 |
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LFK posted:Yeah, it's a reenforcing cycle. Indeed. At the end of the day, Computers are designed to do, and are ridiculously loving good at, math. Physics - the location, direction, velocity, and physical properties of objects, and the ability to make decisions regarding such based on such - is exactly what Computers are for, because Physics is just a math problem. Social interactions, and simulating how people think- that's not math. Or, at the very least, it's math with so many variables involved that the equation to solve it convincingly is currently way beyond what humans comprehend. And if humans don't comprehend the math problem, then they can't teach the computer to either. After all, the computer's just executing a formula somebody already typed out in the code - it'll solve that equation orders of magnitude more quickly than we can, but it can't discover a new formula on its own. Hence, social simulations are rare and generally arrive in stunted and half-formed conditions.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:49 |
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If Brad Jones is depressed he should probably not be watching poo poo like Farmer's Daughters and Batpussy (again). Just hearing them summarized made me cry a little. The 70s were vile.
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:53 |
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Jack Gladney posted:If Brad Jones is depressed he should probably not be watching poo poo like Farmer's Daughters and Batpussy (again). Just hearing them summarized made me cry a little. The 70s were vile. I don't see the harm in posting it here. I mean, it's not like I paid to see this specific message or anything, and it's not like it's secret Brad Jones posted:State of the Site
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# ? Mar 22, 2016 23:56 |
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Hbomberguy posted:One person saying "I agree with Anita Sarkeesian 100%" is not equivalent to pretending there's a rule that "people in this thread must act like she is 100% right and anyone who think otherwise is a evil gator." Lots of people do think that way. Idealogical Purity is for wing nuts on both the left and the right. And it's what leads to witch hunts and reinforcing opinions and ostracism because NOT AGREEING ENOUGH. Which ends with the kind of poo poo happening at Trump rallies, college campuses, and the sheer inane rage over Anita instead of just " Ehh, well meaning but still pretty loving stupid. Whatever imma watch cute pet videos on YouTube instead of being told every game is oppressive and bad". Which is what probably people should do. I'd much rather watch a bunch of puppies and kittens interacting with each other over "Hall of the Mountain King" than some MRA like that Omega Sin dude raging at women or Kat Bailey bitching about Castlevania when she should maybe try to get an RPG podcast that lasts more than 4 months. ( Or she should just do a Crowdfund to constantly slap Smug Douchelord Jeremy Parish for a set period of time whenever he says something smug or console fanboy. Ok, that would be always and non stop so that is probably too much.) Basically people worry about some really silly poo poo. I mean I deal at a casino and it's hard to feel bad for people losing 1000s of dollars because if you can afford to bring that kinda scratch to play with your life ain't too bad. I think this applies to a lot of the crap people rage on over the net. It can be fun but if say NES Spelunker or Alien 3 enrages you legitimately your life is either really kickass or your priorities are skewed.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 00:07 |
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Gamer gate was the best thing that ever happened to Sarkeesians's career. As long as gamergate keeps throwing their temper tantrum she has a guaranteed support base manning the defenses with pure spite.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 00:21 |
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I know nothing about video games and everything I have read or heard about them convinces me that this is the correct state in which to live my life.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 00:24 |
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Jack Gladney posted:If Brad Jones is depressed he should probably not be watching poo poo like Farmer's Daughters and Batpussy (again). Just hearing them summarized made me cry a little. The 70s were vile. Bat pussy is just funny for the dubbing alone. the original review was my favorite and I want to buy the new dvd for more insanity. the 70's was the golden age and the dark age of porno.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 00:37 |
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Also this comic fits into the theme of the derail. I am glad CAD faded away and it legacy is a meme.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 01:23 |
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I love games like Doom and Hitman (well, Blood Money, at least), but I feel like there is a need to cut back. I remember when then the trailers and screenshots for Dishonored hit, I was just like (this is coming from someone who really like Dishonored). The problem is that there's really not a quick fix to that. It's not as if you can regulate how many games can have violence or specify the level of violence depicted. My thinking, though, is that eventually, people are going to get tired of games like Call of Duty and whatnot, and there's going to be a gradual shift away from that style of game to something different. You'll still have shooters and such, but maybe they won't be as prominent as they are now. Actually, thinking about Dishonored, most stealth games give you the ability to use violence, but also allow you to take a peaceful or non-lethal option, and most of them reward the player for taking that option.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 02:41 |
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Max Wilco posted:Actually, thinking about Dishonored, most stealth games give you the ability to use violence, but also allow you to take a peaceful or non-lethal option, and most of them reward the player for taking that option. I wonder how many games that play with this notion make it easier to be nonlethal than lethal. Ones I'm familiar with generally make it more difficult when opting not to kill (MGS series, for example).
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 04:18 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 11:40 |
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TheMaestroso posted:I wonder how many games that play with this notion make it easier to be nonlethal than lethal. Ones I'm familiar with generally make it more difficult when opting not to kill (MGS series, for example). Zero. The "good" path is always also the harder path in literally every game that offers that sort of system.
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# ? Mar 23, 2016 04:54 |