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Hey, lemme give a Finnish redneck opinion on this: Paranoid fuckheads who go as far as to name themselves "punakone" do not need automatic weapons, and really needing even a semi-auto means you're a lovely hunter who shouldn't be shooting. The new gun ban is poorly worded and should probably be revised to eliminate edge cases, but it's better than nothing. If for nothing else, then for the sake of my barn and animals. I wouldn't trust punakone to reliably identify a cow from a moose. Automatic weapons are also very little use against the Russians, they were defeated last time by just making it too goddamn annoying to traverse Finland.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:23
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endlessmonotony posted:Hey, lemme give a Finnish redneck opinion on this: Paranoid fuckheads who go as far as to name themselves "punakone" do not need automatic weapons, and really needing even a semi-auto means you're a lovely hunter who shouldn't be shooting. The new gun ban is poorly worded and should probably be revised to eliminate edge cases, but it's better than nothing. If for nothing else, then for the sake of my barn and animals. I wouldn't trust punakone to reliably identify a cow from a moose. Automatics are not legal anyway, I dont use a semiautomatic to hunt, which have a three bullet magazine limit, if not outright banned for certain game. Semiautomatics in Finland are mostly used in Finland for reservist training, as it is part of building a beliveable defence. You need licenses and prove use for said license. The gun directive had been out before Paris, and it actually was great for intended purpose, only after Paris was semiauto ban slapped on based purely on fear and does nothing to actually address the illegal weapons the terrorists have had, which have been shoddily deactivated guns, which the directive would have taken care of. But keep the ad hominems instead of actually addressing any points.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:31
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Criminals/terrorists use illegally acquired weapons so why restrict legal ownership? It would not solve any problems.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:31
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Rifles are not a credible defence force against cruise missiles and fighter jets, hth. E: Heh, I didn't know this replacement.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:33
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Riso posted:Criminals/terrorists use illegally acquired weapons so why restrict legal ownership? It would not solve any problems. Non-proliferation.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:36
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Riso posted:Criminals/terrorists use illegally acquired weapons so why restrict legal ownership? It would not solve any problems. We must do something, this dumb poo poo is something, we must do this dumb poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:36
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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steinrokkan posted:Rifles are not a credible defence force against cruise missiles and fighter jets, hth. What is? How do we defend ourselves against RUssians? Lie down and ask "please stomp all over my dick please" in russian?
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Mar 22, 2016 23:37
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GreyjoyBastard posted:This but unironically [the EU legislative process]. Where would you like to start (also, how bored are you prepared to get) ? The EU has a pretty good guide explaining the institutions and procedures. But the actual politics and policy-making are far more involved in practice, as are the interaction between the member states and the EU institutions, not to mention the role of subnational and transnational actors.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:38
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Pluskut Tukker posted:Where would you like to start (also, how bored are you prepared to get) ? The EU has a pretty good guide explaining the institutions and procedures. But the actual politics and policy-making are far more involved in practice, as are the interaction between the member states and the EU institutions, not to mention the role of subnational and transnational actors. I do love goon summaries, but thanks for the easy link (which may be useful to other folks, which is part of why I asked instead of googling). I am prepared to get pretty bored and listen to interesting details about almost anything.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:39
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steinrokkan posted:Rifles are not a credible defence force against cruise missiles and fighter jets, hth. I take it you have taken time to become familiar with the Finnish defence doctrine to make such statements? The keyword is cost. I am sure its nice to be under the US nuclear umbrella but some of us actually have To do some legwork 
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Mar 22, 2016 23:41
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punakone posted:I take it you have taken time to become familiar with the Finnish defence doctrine to make such statements? The keyword is cost. I am sure its nice to be under the US nuclear umbrella but some of us actually have To do some legwork If you are afraid of drunken hordes of Russian conscripts storming your precious bogs and empty forests, join NATO. Have you watched the Iraq war? A couple hunting muskets or whatever are not gonna stop a modern army.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:50
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Which is more likely to deter Russian aggression against Finland: a few hundred thousand guys with rifles, or the fact that the EU has a mutual defence clause which means that attacking Finland (or any other member state) is tantamount to attacking Britain and France, and any scenario in which those two are gearing up to fight Russia almost certainly has the US coming in on their side as well?
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Mar 22, 2016 23:50
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waitwhatno posted:If you are afraid of drunken hordes of Russian conscripts storming your precious bogs and empty forests, join NATO. Have you watched the Iraq war? A couple hunting muskets or whatever are not gonna stop a modern army. Afghanistan.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:51
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LemonDrizzle posted:Which is more likely to deter Russian aggression against Finland: a few hundred thousand guys with rifles, or the fact that the EU has a mutual defence clause which means that attacking Finland (or any other member state) is tantamount to attacking Britain and France? The latter, as long as the U.S. is not also part of that defense clause. waitwhatno posted:If you are afraid of drunken hordes of Russian conscripts storming your precious bogs and empty forests, join NATO. That would probably be the best way to have little green men crossing the Finnish border actually...
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Mar 22, 2016 23:52
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lol what legwork? unless ak's can shoot Migs from the sky and sink battle cruisers you're poo poo out of luck. Last time you fought a front (not the full russian army, a front) to a kinda standstill in winter, with no airforce and because of logistics. Guess what as massively developed in the last 70 years?
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Mar 22, 2016 23:54
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Friendly Humour posted:Afghanistan. Soviets took Afghanistan in a couple weeks, if I remember correctly. Northern alliance didn't need much longer with American support.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:56
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waitwhatno posted:Soviets took Afghanistan in a couple weeks, if I remember correctly. Northern alliance didn't need much longer with American support. There's a little bit more to both stories, you realize.
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Mar 22, 2016 23:59
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waitwhatno posted:Soviets took Afghanistan in a couple weeks, if I remember correctly. Northern alliance didn't need much longer with American support. Which worked out really well for both of them in the end. None of us think we could hold out a week against Russia, which is precisely why we train every single eligible man (and every volunteerin woman) to shoot a rifle and live in the forest.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:00
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Friendly Humour posted:Afghanistan. So the country will be occupied in a couple of weeks and then the local population will throw away lives in suicide attacks until the other country gets distracted by domestic problems and leaves? Friendly Humour posted:Which worked out really well for both of them in the end. None of us think we could hold out a week against Russia, which is precisely why we train every single eligible man (and every volunteerin woman) to shoot a rifle and live in the forest. That accomplishes one thing: Get every man shot for being an enemy combatant.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:00
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steinrokkan posted:So the country will be occupied in a couple of weeks and then the local population will throw away lives in suicide attacks until the other country gets distracted by domestic problems and leaves? Yup.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:02
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Yeah uh, as monstrous as the Russians might seem to you my friend, I don't think they're gonna go hitler on us just to have our loving bogs.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:04
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Well, I guess you fellas have pluck or something. Friendly Humour posted:Yeah uh, as monstrous as the Russians might seem to you my friend, I don't think they're gonna go hitler on us just to have our loving bogs. Or to word it more likely terms: Get more men killed because they were trying to play heroes and put their useless training into practice.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:04
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Friendly Humour posted:Which worked out really well for both of them in the end. None of us think we could hold out a week against Russia, which is precisely why we train every single eligible man (and every volunteerin woman) to shoot a rifle and live in the forest. I'm not an expert, but I seriously doubt that small arms had any significant impact on the Soviet/American occupation. IED's and MANPAD's did the trick.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:06
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ok, have fun being carpet bombed to oblivion i guess.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:07
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ChainsawCharlie posted:ok, have fun being carpet bombed to oblivion i guess. What would Russia have to gain from that?
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Mar 23, 2016 00:08
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waitwhatno posted:I'm not an expert, but I seriously doubt that small arms had any significant impact on the Soviet/American occupation. IED's and MANPAD's did the trick. Well, this and that, I imagine we'll be using garade drone bombs by the time Russians come back for round three, but any little bit helps! Thank you for your concern!
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Mar 23, 2016 00:11
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have you seen russia's ROE for syria? for chechnya? They give minus zero fucks, and in a full scale conflict will wreck your poo poo just to save face. but you're right, they wont, because this is a stupid tangent.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:13
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I am indeed willing to concede that if the Russians genocide every single male Finn and carpet bomb the cities into ash and drag the women and the children into slavery, they will indeed be able to conquer Finland.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:13
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Fuuuuck shut up shut up shut up. No one wants Finland. NO ONE EVER WANTS FINLAND. Finland has nothing to do with anything just shut up with your stupid derail.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:14
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poo poo, hope nobodfy from the kgb reads that
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Mar 23, 2016 00:14
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Baxta posted:Fuuuuck shut up shut up shut up. No one wants Finland. NO ONE EVER WANTS FINLAND. Finland has nothing to do with anything just shut up with your stupid derail. Unfortunately it's in Europe 
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Mar 23, 2016 00:18
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Friendly Humour posted:I am indeed willing to concede that if the Russians genocide every single male Finn and carpet bomb the cities into ash and drag the women and the children into slavery, they will indeed be able to conquer Finland. Stop doing that. Fins are supposed to be depressed and full of self-loathing. Stop defending your miserable bog country on the internet and resign to your depressing lot in life.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:21
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endlessmonotony posted:
I think its worth keeping in mind, despite the extreme degrees of romanticism around the winter war, the Russians weren't actually defeated. They actually imposed harsher terms on the Finns when the war ended than what was offered before it began.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:22
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I think Russia would be willing to concede that, easy access to guns or not, Fins are legitimately the only one of their neighbors that scare them, mainly due to things like this.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:24
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Helsinki is a lovely city, though, im sure putin thinks it would be a shame if...something happened to it. In other news,the british confederation of industry says that a brexit could cost 100 billions pounds: http://www.euronews.com/2016/03/21/brexit-could-cost-uk-billions-says-confederation-of-british-industry/ Ya know, the fact that the CBI and the entire City are poo poo scared of a Brexit , kinda makes me support it. You go, proud Britannia!
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Mar 23, 2016 00:25
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Majorian posted:What would Russia have to gain from that? A warm feeling of Stronk!ness in their pants.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:30
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I do love goon summaries, but thanks for the easy link (which may be useful to other folks, which is part of why I asked instead of googling). I'm doing a master's in European Studies myself, so I think it's rather fascinating, but reasonable people can differ on that point . Unfortunately, where and how and under what procedures decisions are taken or laws made may differ per policy area. And even when decisions are taken or directives adopted, member states are not guaranteed to comply with them in full. Also, not everything the EU does falls under the category of hard law or regulations; there is a great deal of cooperation and 'soft'policy coordination and influencing which does not have formal powers of law. So I'm afraid writing a good summary is entirely beyond me (also, the Europol threads so far didn't make me feel it was worth it to try), but I can comment on particular policy fields, mostly the economic ones.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:33
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Cat Mattress posted:A warm feeling of Stronk!ness in their pants. They're getting enough of that from being able to declare victory in Syria, regardless of whether or not anything that could be deemed "victory" was achieved.  For the record, my grandfather was a Russian tank driver during the Winter War, so the Finland discussion is very interesting to me, fwiw.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:35
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Friendly Humour posted:What is? How do we defend ourselves against RUssians? Lie down and ask "please stomp all over my dick please" in russian? The same as anyone else,  So hurry up and join.
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Mar 23, 2016 00:36
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I can't wait to join!
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Mar 23, 2016 00:36
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