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A big flaming stink posted:When was the last time a tribe was constructed viable? I think it was ISD + RTR Naya humans which was really just a slightly worse version of naya blitz. Did you miss lorwyn or something? Not only was faeries viable, it was the best deck. Sickening fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 01:27
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A big flaming stink posted:When was the last time a tribe was constructed viable? I think it was ISD + RTR Naya humans which was really just a slightly worse version of naya blitz. Merfolk are still viable today.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:34
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Merfolk are still viable today. Didn't Legacy Goblins win an Open not too long ago too? Elves is also a big deck in Legacy too right? And hell Modern Goblins is actually pretty sweet now after Oath, it finally has a consistent thing it does. It's definitely a decent tier 2 deck.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:38
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I assume he means standard. I'd argue 'colorless' is basically a slightly wider tribe that's doing well now.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:40
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Also goblin piledriver was kicking around standard when it first came out. Definitely made some results before control decks started figuring out the format. Innistrad/RTR had both zombies and aristocrats, the latter of which maybe was slightly less linear than your average tribal deck... but his lordship Vorthos would have approved.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:50
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There was Scars/INN BR Zombies, didn't have any lord effects, just Gravecrawler using the typing. INN/RTR Goblins were okay too.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:52
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A big flaming stink posted:When was the last time a tribe was constructed viable? I think it was ISD + RTR Naya humans which was really just a slightly worse version of naya blitz. Eldrazi?
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Mar 23, 2016 02:02
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R/B Vampires won tournaments during the menace of Cawblade/Valakut
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Mar 23, 2016 02:06
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My assumption is that tribal strategies arent usually pushed to be tier 1 decks for Standard since WotC knows there's a segment of the player base that loves playing with it regardless of power level.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:10
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whydirt posted:My assumption is that tribal strategies arent usually pushed to be tier 1 decks for Standard since WotC knows there's a segment of the player base that loves playing with it regardless of power level. Sam Stoddard posted:Of course, getting that to work for Limited is one thing; Constructed is another animal. While most of the tribal decks in Innistrad were overshadowed in Constructed by Primeval Titan in Wolf Run Ramp—and Delver of Secrets—the decks did exist. Humans, Spirits, Vampires, and Zombies all had decks, clearly of those tribes, that succeeded, if not at the Pro Tour level then certainly at the store level. We wanted to repeat that success with Shadows over Innistrad. They explicitly are trying to push tribal in standard.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:30
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i don't see how you can look at cards like Falkenrath Gorger or Relentless Dead and not get the feeling that they're trying to make tribal a standard thing
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Mar 23, 2016 02:34
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That article is backing my point. They will push tribal for casual and FNM level play, even if it doesn't dominate the Pro Tour. People will play it even if it's not the best deck.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:35
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BJPaskoff posted:The event is at Brothers Grim in Selden. That's Eastern Long Island. I wish this wasn't like 2hrs away from Brooklyn. I would draft for cattes because I love the cattes even though I suck at drafting.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:40
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whydirt posted:That article is backing my point. They will push tribal for casual and FNM level play, even if it doesn't dominate the Pro Tour. People will play it even if it's not the best deck. They don't "target for the store level". They want tribal to be good, but they can't predict what the actual Tier 1 decks will be. They just don't have the time or resources to do that.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:41
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whydirt posted:That article is backing my point. They will push tribal for casual and FNM level play, even if it doesn't dominate the Pro Tour. People will play it even if it's not the best deck.
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Mar 23, 2016 02:47
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Why is saviors of kamigawa a "notorious" set?
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Mar 23, 2016 03:03
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Baron Porkface posted:Why is saviors of kamigawa a "notorious" set? There were 2 relevant constructed cards, one printed for as a SB hoser for a deck that very quickly got entirely banned out (Kataki), and the other just a plain sideboard card (Pithing Needle). Literally only 2 relevant cards, both sideboard answers that no one gets excited about. Also it completely ruined the relatively decent limited format of the previous sets with its headlining mechanic (having more cards in your hand than your opponent). Because of the mechanic, it was basically better to just draw your card, not play a land, not cast a spell, and pass the turn in a lot of situations in limited because the moment your opponent had more cards in hand than you their stuff turned on and you would die. This applies for both players. So you'd have people with 3 lands and 1 creature out on turn 4, both holding multiple lands and castable spells, and draw going until they hit 8 cards in hand to play 1 land, still do nothing, and repeat this process until turn 15.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:11
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Baron Porkface posted:Why is saviors of kamigawa a "notorious" set?
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Mar 23, 2016 03:14
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I feel like some of the Sweep cards were really underrated in limited tbh, Sink Into Takenuma was a serious blowout for instance.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:17
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Algid posted:It's the set with the highest concentration of Maro/card. i believe the technical term is 'asfan'
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Mar 23, 2016 03:18
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Algid posted:It's the set with the highest concentration of Maro/card. what you mean like kagemaro and all those. yeah it was a bad cycle but i don't think it's the reason the set was bad
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Mar 23, 2016 03:19
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Of course its all of the problems in the set that cause Sink Into Takenuma to be such a strong card, and it was really hard to punish people for holding on to their cards otherwise.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:25
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At the prerelease, I played Barrel Down Sokenzan on my own Homura to turn all my guys into dragons. Saviors was great. Not really
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Mar 23, 2016 03:34
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Baron Porkface posted:Why is saviors of kamigawa a "notorious" set? Its fundamental mechanic is not playing cards. It introduced ability words by an ability that undoes all your hard work of draw-land-going.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:36
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Some Numbers posted:At the prerelease, I played Barrel Down Sokenzan on my own Homura to turn all my guys into dragons. Saviors was great. splicing overblaze onto barrel down sokenzan then casting the overblaze has won me a number of games in borborygmos enraged edh so saviors actually owned.
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Mar 23, 2016 03:53
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The white sweep cards were beyond stupid
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Mar 23, 2016 04:04
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Algid posted:It's the set with the highest concentration of Maro/card. Wouldn't that be Urza's Destiny? 
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Mar 23, 2016 04:12
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I'd assume it's just a joke, since Maro wasn't involved with Saviors at all.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:19
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Manriki-Gusari saw some sideboard play in Legacy in 2012 for Stoneforge mirrors. And I'm told Celestial Kirin was okay.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:30
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Baron Porkface posted:Why is saviors of kamigawa a "notorious" set? That "have lots of cards in hand" mechanic others mentioned came in two forms: have more than your opponent, and have 7 or more cards in hand. Let's look at an example card:  That's a common red creature. It's a 2/1 for 2; it's supposed to be aggressive. But the card pays you for having 7 cards in hand by doubling in size. This means that, rather than attacking and throwing burn around like red decks usually do, you're supposed to do nothing for like 4 turns while you just draw cards. This isn't fun. The set also had a legendarily weak power level (as others said, there were really only two kind-of playable cards in the whole set); check out the set on Gatherer and sort by community rating > ascending. Not only are there a lot of completely poo poo cards, but most of the best cards aren't even block constructed playable. A couple found second homes in EDH, but even then, there's usually a much better or more efficient option for the same effect. MaRo has said that Saviors is one of the worst-designed sets of all time, alongside Homelands and Fallen Empires. I think he's right.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:40
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Sweep is quite possibly the worst mechanic that ever made it to print, especially taking into consideration the rest of the set it was in. I really, really enjoyed Champions and Betrayers and a lot of thing things they brought to the game, despite their numerous flaws. But Saviors? gently caress that poo poo.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:51
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The Shortest Path posted:Sweep is quite possibly the worst mechanic that ever made it to print, especially taking into consideration the rest of the set it was in. Epic?
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Mar 23, 2016 04:53
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sarmhan posted:I'd assume it's just a joke, since Maro wasn't involved with Saviors at all. The joke being there were five Maro rares.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:54
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Rinkles posted:Epic? Epic is fine as a cycle of weird cool rares, they probably just didn't need to keyword it and make it one of the official mechanics of the set.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:54
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Star Man posted:Manriki-Gusari saw some sideboard play in Legacy in 2012 for Stoneforge mirrors. It's probably going to see more play once EMA is out too 
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Mar 23, 2016 04:55
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Rinkles posted:Epic? Probably the only good thing to come out of that set, honestly. It was still terribly implemented but at least it was neat and led to one of the coolest Extended decks of all time.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:55
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Champs block was one of the heights of my magic career, mainly because the standard of the game at the time was so terrible. The cards were so bad and the mechanics so insular that as soon as Rav block was introduced to the format only the most broken Kamigawa block cards continued to see play - Jitte, Top, and little else. Even the playable cards in the set were bad by all other standards, and across all 3 sets there's still MAYBE only a handful of playable cards.
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Mar 23, 2016 04:58
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Balon posted:Champs block was one of the heights of my magic career, mainly because the standard of the game at the time was so terrible. The cards were so bad and the mechanics so insular that as soon as Rav block was introduced to the format only the most broken Kamigawa block cards continued to see play - Jitte, Top, and little else. This is brushing aside a lot - Kamigawa's actually done pretty good in an eternal sense, and Kamigawa / Ravnica had a good amount of Kamigawa cards all the way through. Off the top of my head: - Glimpse of Nature - Enduring Ideal - Maga - Shoals - Gifts Ungiven - Hand of Honor / Cruelty - Owling Mine - Kodama of the North Tree - MICHAEL J FLORES FAVORITE, GNARLED MASS
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Mar 23, 2016 05:04
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oh and Sakura-Tribe Elder was/is amazing, and Kodama's Reach is still the gold standard for ramp spells.
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Mar 23, 2016 05:15
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Niton posted:oh and Sakura-Tribe Elder was/is amazing, and Kodama's Reach is still the gold standard for ramp spells. Hisoka's Defiance doesn't counter Cultivate. 
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Mar 23, 2016 05:19
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