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It's also possible that the Arkham Knight has told his thugs to give this information if pressured, or maybe he told this thug in particular. It'd certainly fit that he's trying to guide Batman in certain directions and they don't actually need Penguin any-more. As far as I understand it Penguin smuggled the weapons in and the Knight's Militia retrieved them, as they have the weapons Penguin is now a liability. Then again I thought it was rather fitting in a way. The Arkham Knight is intentionally mirroring Batman, but where Batman trains and moulds singular people and thus they are individually very skilled and hard to get information out of the Knight has mass produced relatively capable militia forces who aren't as individually capable from both a physical and mental standpoint.
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Mar 23, 2016 08:50
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Lord_Magmar posted:Then again I thought it was rather fitting in a way. The Arkham Knight is intentionally mirroring Batman, but where Batman trains and moulds singular people and thus they are individually very skilled and hard to get information out of the Knight has mass produced relatively capable militia forces who aren't as individually capable from both a physical and mental standpoint. Definitely. If it's a War on Crime, would you rather have a few, hand-picked elite people? Or as many minimally trained, but a poo poo-load of people with a lot of gear and support? I've mentioned in past Bat-threads, but since I'm in Mexico, I have the benefit of seeing how having military trained people on military vehicles and with military support, patrolling a city works in the long run. And it turns out that it's pretty good at making sure there are no mass shoot-outs with ARs and grenades, but there's still the opportunity robberies, murders and other stuff that a detective might be better at solving. A soldier might be great at guarding. But finding out clues, tracking down suspects, and making a case? That's a police job.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:28
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Lord_Magmar posted:It's also possible that the Arkham Knight has told his thugs to give this information if pressured, or maybe he told this thug in particular. It'd certainly fit that he's trying to guide Batman in certain directions and they don't actually need Penguin any-more. As far as I understand it Penguin smuggled the weapons in and the Knight's Militia retrieved them, as they have the weapons Penguin is now a liability. It would be fun to play with the interrogation dynamic. Have minions give out false information.
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Mar 23, 2016 10:46
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What happens if you try to interact with the Joker, like punch him or throw a batarang at him? Does he react at all?Hobgoblin2099 posted:Lucius' secretary is there with him. He mentions it if you try to leave the room through those doors. The Casualty posted:The weird thing about Batman torturing people is, isn't it somewhat of an open secret that Batman doesn't kill people? You'd think a merc that's been trained by the Arkham Knight would know that he doesn't have to say poo poo, either way Batman's going to just beat him up and throw him in jail. Lord_Magmar posted:The general idea is much like Batman himself they're worried that this will be the time he does kill, after all he's a nutcase dressed like a bat, that's one step away from your average Gotham super criminal. Crigit posted:Which still illustrates the erosion of his moral compass, but the context is different. He's not being driven to poor decisions because of the need for haste, he's overwhelmed by the array of opposition and the stress is preventing him from thinking the situation all the way through. Kal-L posted:The point I was trying to make is that it would make more sense for AK thugs to be coached like "...and just when Batman gets at his most scariest, growliest tone of voice, you give him this fake info so he knocks you unconscious and then goes directly into our trap".
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Mar 23, 2016 12:16
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Tiggum posted:So, the secretary doesn't know that Lucius is working with Batman, but Lucius somehow convinced them to stay in the city? What do they think is going on? Lucius probably said something like "Hey, do you want to make two grand in cash" and then she's working that night, no questions asked.
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Mar 23, 2016 12:44
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Tiggum posted:What happens if you try to interact with the Joker, like punch him or throw a batarang at him? Does he react at all? Nope, same as any other NPC. I'm not sure if batarangs and stuff pass through him, though.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:36
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Tiggum posted:With the number of people Batman's tortured for information over the course of this series, it should be fairly well known by now that giving up information doesn't help at all and he's still going to put you in the hospital. To be fair this is like the first time in memory Batman has actually physically tortured someone for information, in the past it's all been mental. Also him putting you in the hospital means nobody will suspect you squealed. The reason you squealed being that whilst being put in the hospital is bad having every bone broken in your body or whatever other ridiculous but non-fatal punishment Batman can come up with is almost certainly worse. Most of the big name criminals don't routinely kill henchmen, the one who did it most was Joker and he did so on his own internal whims more than anything else. Also for the most part you're threatening people the Riddler has paid to set up his stupid Riddles and they're thus more loyal to whomever they actually work for. Also a lot of people don't move out because it's either where they've always lived, they want to clean the town up, or they don't have the funds to leave. I mean a big thing is Bruce Wayne creates a lot of well paying jobs with his construction projects and company. Gotham's upper class is at this point Bruce Wayne, who has reasons for staying, Thomas Elliot, who has reasons for staying, and anyone associated with them who stay because they do. Meanwhile the Middle Class are all probably some variation of a Wayne Enterprise Employee or government official, and anyone who supplies skilled work for those two groups. Finally the Lower Class is probably where the majority of thugs come from, so they stick around because Gotham has good Thugging. Gotham is not actually as bad as these games portray, remember they're all single nights of a 10 year timeline, with presumably large periods between where you don't have a terrorist threatening to drive everyone insane.
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Mar 23, 2016 13:55
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Tiggum posted:Except he's acting just like he always has throughout the entire series? That's not really true. The point we're supposed to get is that having Joker blood in Batman has hosed him six ways from Sunday. Asylum Batman never really did any interrogations or torture. In City the most aggressive Batman was when he was dealing with Freeze. That was because Bats had had a long night and Freeze was being a dick. It doesn't excuse his lovely behavior, but that was the worst Batman had been in the game. He was still better to his allies than he's being now. It's definitely a decline from "Snippy with Oracle" to "Running a car over a dude's head". Not that I'm particularly up in arms over the Batmobile thing. I didn't think that hard about it. If I had seen like a live action Batman do that then it probably would've been different.
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Mar 23, 2016 15:16
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Lord_Magmar posted:Also for the most part you're threatening people the Riddler has paid to set up his stupid Riddles and they're thus more loyal to whomever they actually work for. Setting up riddles is not actually illegal. There's a whole bunch of breaking and entering involved in the process that probably is, but overall there's a fair case to be made that the Riddler is doing more in keeping thugs off the streets and preventing them from doing actual harm than Batman in the leadup to these games.
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Mar 23, 2016 17:39
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Arcomage posted:Setting up riddles is not actually illegal. There's a whole bunch of breaking and entering involved in the process that probably is, but overall there's a fair case to be made that the Riddler is doing more in keeping thugs off the streets and preventing them from doing actual harm than Batman in the leadup to these games. You know what'd be great? A story on which Riddler hires criminals to set up a bunch of convoluted riddles for Batman without any of them actually committing any crimes.
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Mar 23, 2016 17:42
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:You know what'd be great? A story on which Riddler hires criminals to set up a bunch of convoluted riddles for Batman without any of them actually committing any crimes. Mission Objective: Fill in form 764.1/A in triplicate.
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Mar 23, 2016 17:49
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:You know what'd be great? A story on which Riddler hires criminals to set up a bunch of convoluted riddles for Batman without any of them actually committing any crimes. Mission Objective: Trick criminals into restoring the brickwork on that orphanage in exchange for some rather modest financial compensation and the satisfaction of puzzling the World's Greatest Detective: the Batman. "Yes, I also require the whole wiring repaired, look, if my great riddles catch fire and burn before Batman gets to them, they are useless. And I can't have that!"
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Mar 23, 2016 17:58
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Just some poor dude with an electrical wiring manual trying to figure out how to get it so the cage comes down when the pressure pad is activated and the question marks light up at the same time.
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Mar 23, 2016 17:58
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Knight's available for 24$ on Steam at the moment if anyone's interested. I bought it with a refund in mind if it doesn't gel with my computer.
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Mar 23, 2016 18:17
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Tiggum posted:What happens if you try to interact with the Joker, like punch him or throw a batarang at him? Does he react at all? Only at Ace Chemicals, where he laughs at you and reminds you that you already killed him in the last Rocksteady game.
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Mar 23, 2016 18:18
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I think the car scene is the angriest Kevin Conroy's Batman has ever been. The interrogations make scene, since the thugs in these games aren't doing what they're doing for ideology. They're mostly petty criminals, sadistics and opportunists looking to make some cash. Even Arkham Knight's guys are mercenaries, and I don't think he's paying them enough to stay silent when there's a dude about to roll a tank on your head. The only enemies driven by ideology are the League and Bane's mercs in Origins, and you can't interrogate them at all as far as I'm aware.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:20
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Tiggum posted:With the number of people Batman's tortured for information over the course of this series, it should be fairly well known by now that giving up information doesn't help at all and he's still going to put you in the hospital.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:24
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OldMemes posted:The only enemies driven by ideology are the League and Bane's mercs in Origins, and you can't interrogate them at all as far as I'm aware. You can interrogate a Venom thug in Origins, but he kills one of Bane's own men out of petty jealousy if I'm not mistaken, so I guess he doesn't count to the degree you meant.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:38
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I was looking for information on another game when I happened across some click-bait article that was oddly relevant: 11 Moments That Batman Became a Murderer. Seems like in his wild younger days he was a psychotic killer but now only occasionally dabbles in cold blooded murder when it can conveniently be attributed to alternate universes where it doesn't count. Still doesn't explain why he thinks he has the moral high-ground because killing is off the table but literally everything else goes. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Mar 23, 2016 |
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Mar 23, 2016 23:45
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Because he is a crazy person.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:48
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Lord Death Man might be the stupidest comic book name ever. And I say that knowing full well that there's a character named Coldflame who has the power of inhaling ungodly amounts of cocaine.
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Mar 23, 2016 23:56
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Grapplejack posted:Just some poor dude with an electrical wiring manual trying to figure out how to get it so the cage comes down when the pressure pad is activated and the question marks light up at the same time. Someone had to build the plexiglass tower maze with the exposed electromagnets and the hamster ball, and somebody had to install it in front of the orphanage. Riddler probably has to spend most of his blackmail markers to get these things built.
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Mar 24, 2016 00:00
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Lord Death Man might be the stupidest comic book name ever.
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Mar 24, 2016 00:00
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Lord Death Man might be the stupidest comic book name ever. I'm sorry are you saying Snowflame isn't the raddest loving thing ever?
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Mar 24, 2016 00:00
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I was looking for information on another game when I happened across some click-bait article that was oddly relevant: 11 Moments That Batman Became a Murderer. The article is pretty poorly researched, I stopped clicking after 4 because Batman locking up KGBeast was actually a moment of relative growth for Batman in that after an exhausting fight that lingered on and on in stalemate, he said 'nah I don't have to fight to the death with you' and locks up KGBeast in a room for the police to apprehend. In the actual comic by itself it's pretty ambiguous since he lies about KGBeast's whereabouts but in a later issue a few days later Bats alerts the police to apprehend KGBeast when he'd be too weak to pose a threat to them. KGBeast for sure appears in comics a couple years later but unfortunately Tim Drake outwits him fast, easily defeating him, and he's been a much less threatening villain since that rarely sees use. In any case a lot of people aren't aware that the no-kill rule is somewhat recent, originating around the 80s iirc (though he had been modestly clean for a while - Starlin's Batman allowed crooks to crossfire each other during fights but Bats would almost never be directly responsible for deaths). Comic book readers actually wrote in complaining about an issue where Batman didn't just throw a rabid sniper off a rooftop since the dude wracked up a huge body count and wasn't crazy/interesting on his own. The writers felt compelled to respond and stated something like: Batman doesn't think he's either judge, jury or executioner and so allows the system deal with criminals in a way the public sees fit. For that reason his vigilantism is tolerated. I believe that's the moment when it became a thing. hard counter fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 01:30
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I never read any of the comics and don't really pay too close attention the the DC Universe so I'm not sure how accurate anything in the article actually is, I just happened to notice it. That said, when I was a kid I used to watch the 60's era Batman show when it was on and I don't recall him being particularly violent or killing anyone. Yeah he punched people out in fights but he didn't beat them to within an inch of their lives and them leave them for dead in the middle of the street. I also don't remember him torturing people for information or acting like a mopey, lost soul. When I was ~5-8 the Tim Burton series of movies came out and while they were pretty drat dark I don't remember Batman being as violent as he is now or killing anyone. It seems Batman's penchant for ultraviolence is recent but I guess the game would get pretty tiresome if you ran up to some dudes and colourful POW! and ZAP! Intertitle cards flashed on the screen every few seconds.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:02
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Tim Burton's Batman killed quite a number of people. I mean, there's a scene of him setting someone on fire with the afterburner of the Batmobile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3wM7_Bch1Y
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Mar 24, 2016 03:11
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Tim Burton's Batman killed quite a number of people. drat, it's been a good 20 years since I last saw some of those; guess they were more violent than I remembered. But a number of those were arguably a "I'm not going to kill you but I don't have to save you, either" situations. And I'm sure the guy who was lit on fire had a good chance of surviving 3rd degree burns to 98% of this body if he stop-drop-and-rolled then got immediate medical attention after that scene. Jack Nicholson Joker is still as loving creepy as I remember though. Heath Ledger was a great character actor but crazed homeless guy isn't quite as menacing as the actual psychopath Nicholson portrayed. And also that smile.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:33
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^^The '89 Batman actually tells Joker he's gonna kill him at one point. Depends on which part of the 60s but some of those comics definitely followed suit of the TV program and as we know Adam West Batman was squeaky clean. When Adam West's crawling through a vent and pops the grating, he carefully attaches it back to the wall with a safety hook since he's against both littering and health hazards  There was also the matter of the Comics Code Authority banning a lot of violent imagery, vocabulary, concepts and radical ideology, so technically superheroes could kill but not through egregiously violent means. Definitely no torture porn or ultra-violence period. It took several decades for that to ease up.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:35
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Psychotic Weasel posted:It seems Batman's penchant for ultraviolence is recent but I guess the game would get pretty tiresome if you ran up to some dudes and colourful POW! and ZAP! Intertitle cards flashed on the screen every few seconds. I would definitely play a game based on the Adam West Batman.
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Mar 24, 2016 04:18
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Just doing some Wikipedia research, the Court of Owls seems like a great premise for a Batgame, and the designers could have most members of the Batfamily playable at one point or another, plus Catwoman. Secret ancient evil society, zombie assassins, Owlman, etc. Good stuff.
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Mar 24, 2016 05:54
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Psychotic Weasel posted:drat, it's been a good 20 years since I last saw some of those; guess they were more violent than I remembered. But a number of those were arguably a "I'm not going to kill you but I don't have to save you, either" situations. Like when the batmobile dropped explosives out of its wheels and firebombed an entire factory filled with goons? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUPudZd3oI4
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Mar 24, 2016 06:04
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Tiggum posted:I would definitely play a game based on the Adam West Batman. Lego Batman 3 has a Batman 66 you can unlock and every time you punch someone a POW pops up. It's adorable.
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Mar 24, 2016 06:29
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You could also make a pretty great Arkham game based on Batman Beyond. Even gives a good reason for the upgrade/experience system. As you fight you prove yourself to whoever is supplying you and get better/more inventive with the gear.
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Mar 24, 2016 07:47
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Gorilla Salad posted:Like when the batmobile dropped explosives out of its wheels and firebombed an entire factory filled with goons? No that's just straight up killing everyone but most movies to come out of the 80s were pretty violent in retrospect. But when you look at things like the car crash in Forever (where the henchmen could've just stopped if they were paying attention) or the monastery explosion in Returns (where people had ample time to run away after the initial blast) you could've cut his kill count nearly in half.
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Mar 24, 2016 12:40
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Any time discussion of Batman killing people in movies comes up, yeah, the first thing that comes to mind for me is the Batmobile bombing ACE Chemicals. Too bad that didn't appear in the 1989 racetracks, it mostly focused on Batman Returns. The Blüdhaven Assist/PolsyNew profiles: Simon Stagg
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Mar 24, 2016 17:46
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Batman killing in the Burton movies was actually a call back to the original batman comics. Batman occasionally killed people in those and even carried a gun. Older than they think indeed.
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Mar 24, 2016 17:52
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dscruffy1 posted:Any time discussion of Batman killing people in movies comes up, yeah, the first thing that comes to mind for me is the Batmobile bombing ACE Chemicals. Too bad that didn't appear in the 1989 racetracks, it mostly focused on Batman Returns. He also sets a dude on fire with the afterburner (after it pivots on that retractable thingy under it).
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Mar 24, 2016 18:07
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The level of  in this picture is astounding.
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Mar 24, 2016 18:16
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I am very much looking forward to Simon Stagg though, after being reminded of the reference. And dammit Scruffy, don't just reference league and then not play it anymore. Haven't seen you on in forever! 
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Mar 24, 2016 18:32
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