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SlothfulCobra posted:That country is very high in potassium. Inferior potassium. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq8y_Wkrs3c
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Mar 18, 2016 18:29
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JaucheCharly posted:What's "K" doing in Serbia? Hey Hogge, where did you get that one from? drat, the Kebab joke was made already. I had read new studies about European genetics, and googled a map of those for the map thread.
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Mar 18, 2016 20:42
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quote:Maritime insurance is the oldest form of insurance by centuries. But it looked very different when it was sought by sailors crossing the seas that Odysseus had found so perilous. It was much more speculative. True Roman insurance, for true Romans!
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Mar 19, 2016 02:50
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Fascinating read.
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Mar 19, 2016 05:17
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The Romans and Greeks both enjoyed bottomry.
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Mar 19, 2016 05:22
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Who doesn't? 
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Mar 19, 2016 08:07
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Thanks for the interesting read.
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Mar 19, 2016 13:00
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Don't we have documented cases of insurance fraud from ancient Greece? The fraudster would insure a cargo, transfer it to another ship, scuttle the original ship and claim the insurance.
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Mar 19, 2016 15:53
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Some Syracusan to my memory, yes.
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Mar 19, 2016 17:49
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Thanks for the detailed information on bottomry, I really enjoyed reading it. The Guardian is currently doing a series of articles on cities, looks like there'll be one a weekday for ten weeks, starting last week. The cities so far are Alexandria, Rome, Baghdad, Beijing, and Benin (this one has some really D&D stuff in the comments.) quote:Again we are told that this was entirely the caliph’s work. Under strict supervision he had workers trace the plans of his round city on the ground in lines of cinders. The perfect circle was a tribute to the geometric teachings of Euclid, whom he had studied and admired. He then walked through this ground-level plan, indicated his approval and ordered cotton balls soaked in naphtha (liquid petroleum) to be placed along the outlines and set alight to mark the position of the massively fortified double outer walls.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:42
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Grand Fromage posted:The Romans and Greeks both enjoyed bottomry. Indeed, allowing claimants to have a lien on a tangible asset allows them to, in theory, offer lower interest rates. Speaking of interest rates, I also remember reading that the Sumerians were the first to enact consumer finance reform; they capped interest rates at 18% for loans to be paid back in silver and 25% for loans to be paid back in grain.
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Mar 20, 2016 05:55
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sullat posted:Indeed, allowing claimants to have a lien on a tangible asset allows them to, in theory, offer lower interest rates. Speaking of interest rates, I also remember reading that the Sumerians were the first to enact consumer finance reform; they capped interest rates at 18% for loans to be paid back in silver and 25% for loans to be paid back in grain. Legally entrenched oppression of the proletariat and peasantry? (as presumably people paying back in silver would be richer than those paying in grain) Cool
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Mar 20, 2016 07:04
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House Louse posted:Thanks for the detailed information on bottomry, I really enjoyed reading it. The Guardian is currently doing a series of articles on cities, looks like there'll be one a weekday for ten weeks, starting last week. The cities so far are Alexandria, Rome, Baghdad, Beijing, and Benin (this one has some really D&D stuff in the comments.) I read the Baghdad one but didn't realize it was a series, cool. Also, I like how it shows the greatly differing number of comments between the articles, ~1000 on Benin/Baghdad compared to ~100 for Rome/Beijing. 
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Mar 20, 2016 08:06
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icantfindaname posted:Legally entrenched oppression of the proletariat and peasantry? (as presumably people paying back in silver would be richer than those paying in grain) Cool Are you implying that not having capped interest rates would have been more preferable?
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Mar 21, 2016 01:27
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icantfindaname posted:Legally entrenched oppression of the proletariat and peasantry? (as presumably people paying back in silver would be richer than those paying in grain) Cool It's not really clear why the rates were different. Most speculation is that it has more to do with keeping things easy to calculate than anything else, and silver was measured differently from grain.
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Mar 21, 2016 01:41
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Deteriorata posted:It's not really clear why the rates were different. Most speculation is that it has more to do with keeping things easy to calculate than anything else, and silver was measured differently from grain. Alternatively grain spoils and thus needs to be shorter duration higher interest loans.
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Mar 21, 2016 01:45
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Silver currency is probably more stable than grain because the price fluctuates with the harvest and the season so grain carries more risk?
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Mar 21, 2016 02:16
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Ithle01 posted:Silver currency is probably more stable than grain because the price fluctuates with the harvest and the season so grain carries more risk? This was a time before currency and coinage. It was a barter economy and it's difficult to project concepts like risk and profit onto them. They had an idea of those things, but not particularly well-developed. The kings would periodically issue debt-forgiveness edicts for grain debtors, so they seem to have known the rate was too high and debt burdens were too heavy - which is why ease of calculation based on their weights and numbering systems remains the most popular explanation.
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Mar 21, 2016 02:22
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Deteriorata posted:This was a time before currency and coinage. It was a barter economy and it's difficult to project concepts like risk and profit onto them. They had an idea of those things, but not particularly well-developed. This seems weird to me, but I know nothing about the era. I can see the appeal of easy calculation, but I'm confused because it seems completely nuts that these people can't grasp that food is worth more when it's scarce and worth less when you have too much (of a perishable good) while they also believe silver has intrinsic value and even have laws to articulate how valuable it is.
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Mar 21, 2016 03:32
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Deteriorata posted:This was a time before currency and coinage. It was a barter economy and it's difficult to project concepts like risk and profit onto them. They had an idea of those things, but not particularly well-developed. "Levy heavy taxes so that if they can pay they will, but you appear a generous lord if you forgive their debt in lean years." - One of those kings, probably
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Mar 21, 2016 04:51
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Ithle01 posted:Silver currency is probably more stable than grain because the price fluctuates with the harvest and the season so grain carries more risk? Ask the Spainish in the 1600s how stable Silver is.
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Mar 21, 2016 13:54
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Thwomp posted:Ask the Spainish in the 1600s how stable Silver is. You're comparing the economics of 16th century Spain--with the modern banking systems of the period--with the economy of a civilization thousands of years earlier. Plus, no one is asserting that silver is 100% stable; they're saying the people of the time saw it as more stable than a perishable good subject to the whims of weather.
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Mar 21, 2016 14:39
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Ynglaur posted:You're comparing the economics of 16th century Spain--with the modern banking systems of the period--with the economy of a civilization thousands of years earlier. Plus, no one is asserting that silver is 100% stable; they're saying the people of the time saw it as more stable than a perishable good subject to the whims of weather. Complicating this analysis is that no one owned their own farms. The priests owned all the land, and the farmers rented it from them. The farmers did everything with barter, exchanging grain for everything else they needed. They were generally poor, but had a strong infrastructure to support them. Silver, however, was used by merchants. They often had huge herds of animals which they would drive with them from town to town. They would barter with their animals, and pay silver for other things. They'd stay a while - maybe a few weeks, then move on. They had regular circuits they traveled. Since their animals would reproduce on their own, they could become very wealthy. Since they were itinerant, they had no homes and were on their own. Part of their entourage would be armed guards for protection. So they had great wealth but little security. It was almost like two separate, parallel cultures and economies. The whole system was very dissimilar to today's economy, and it's hard to use modern terms to describe how it all operated.
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Mar 21, 2016 14:55
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Grand Fromage posted:Norwegian and Swedish are going to be very similar. You take that back 
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Mar 21, 2016 16:45
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Alhazred posted:You take that back They're both descendants of the Danes anyways 
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Mar 21, 2016 16:48
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Alhazred posted:You take that back Sorry, I meant identical.
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Mar 21, 2016 23:55
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Good news, everyone. Turns out the scrolls found in Herculaneum were written in lead-based ink so we can read them with an x-ray machine.
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Mar 25, 2016 01:49
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Tunicate posted:Good news, everyone. I'm starting to wonder if there was anything in antiquity that wasn't lead-based.
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Mar 25, 2016 13:42
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Lead's pretty cool and useful for lots of stuff until you know that it's poison, but they had no way of knowing so 
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Mar 25, 2016 13:52
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Grand Fromage posted:Lead's pretty cool and useful for lots of stuff until you know that it's poison, but they had no way of knowing so Kinda reminds me of asbestos. Asbestos would be a miracle material if it didn't cause cancer n poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2016 13:57
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Tunicate posted:Good news, everyone. Having more Epicurus and Ennius would be pretty amazing!
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Mar 25, 2016 14:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Lead's pretty cool and useful for lots of stuff until you know that it's poison, but they had no way of knowing so I thought Vitruvius was telling people not to make poo poo out of lead because it was making his work crews sick or some poo poo.
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Mar 25, 2016 21:02
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You are right, I did find Vitruvius and a couple other ancient writers theorizing about lead poisoning.
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Mar 26, 2016 05:16
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Each time there's a number of new posts in this thread, it fills me with hope that they finally found "Lives of famous whores".
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Mar 26, 2016 22:38
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JaucheCharly posted:Each time there's a number of new posts in this thread, it fills me with hope that they finally found "Lives of famous whores". Good news! Lives of the famous whores was found to have been etched in stone tablet by a 2nd-century Palmyran. Bad news....
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Mar 27, 2016 02:54
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My Imaginary GF posted:Good news! Lives of the famous whores was found to have been etched in stone tablet by a 2nd-century Palmyran. You best not be joking and of course provide a link.
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Mar 27, 2016 03:14
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Terrible Opinions posted:You best not be joking and of course provide a link. Migf is full of disappointments. God I want that book.
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Mar 27, 2016 03:20
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JaucheCharly posted:Each time there's a number of new posts in this thread, it fills me with hope that they finally found "Lives of famous whores". Just get your mom to publish her diary already.
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Mar 27, 2016 03:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:You best not be joking and of course provide a link. I thought the Palmyran portion was a dead give-away? Besides, I'm sure Lives of famous whores exists somewhere, untranslated, in a private collection. What did the Phoenicians wear for armor?
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Mar 27, 2016 05:16
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Grand Fromage posted:Just get your mom to publish her diary already. That was absolutely inevitable, eh?
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Mar 27, 2016 13:38
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