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fknlo posted:It's absolutely a thing. Especially with Sky West. He told us he'd be able to give us at least .74 once he leveled off. 
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Mar 22, 2016 04:34
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JohnClark posted:Better than the goddamn Saab 340s that Colgan used to fly into Dulles. Half the time on initial check-in, "Colgan 3824 with alpha, operationally restricted to 180 knots". Oh god I was a passenger on one of those flights around 2008 and I was sure we were gonna have a wing strike.
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Mar 22, 2016 05:06
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The Ferret King posted:Back when I started, flight data at Ft Worth and Houston centers was still handled through the old HOST system (don't ask me what that stands for) and aircraft callsign info wasn't shared between facilities unless the HOST computer showed that aircraft's route to track through the specific sector. Calling with a beacon code was appropriate for both Terminal to Terminal, and Terminal to En Route coordination, as far as I knew. Never got back to this... If you give us a beacon code, there will only be two reasons we wouldn't be able to see it. A: It's not in radar coverage for us, which is unlikely, as long as the terminal radar is being used as an ERAM sensor. B: The controller is pigheaded or stupid. They might reply with the callsign, instead of the code you supply, but the code is generally the easiest, since you don't have to worry about whether its a local code, or who the host facility is.
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Mar 22, 2016 05:13
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MrYenko posted:Never got back to this... ERAM has a cute function where it will show the code the aircraft is supposed to have instead of the one it's currently on when going between facilities. This makes pointing it out to an approach control a lot of fun when you're hunting down the DIK and trying to remember which key shows the code(if you remember this at all  )
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Mar 22, 2016 16:44
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fknlo posted:ERAM has a cute function where it will show the code the aircraft is supposed to have instead of the one it's currently on when going between facilities. This makes pointing it out to an approach control a lot of fun when you're hunting down the DIK and trying to remember which key shows the code(if you remember this at all This is particularly fun in one of our sectors. Aircraft will come in to the sector from the west/northwest landing Savannah. The thing is ZJX and ZTL airspace coincide about 10 miles from the boundary of SAV approach. So...we see this so much that it is just a part of the scan. This was a problem even before ERAM for us. Would make hand offs or pointouts an extra treat.
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Mar 23, 2016 21:05
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Tommy 2.0 posted:This is particularly fun in one of our sectors. Aircraft will come in to the sector from the west/northwest landing Savannah. The thing is ZJX and ZTL airspace coincide about 10 miles from the boundary of SAV approach. So...we see this so much that it is just a part of the scan. This was a problem even before ERAM for us. Would make hand offs or pointouts an extra treat. Aircraft landing RSW/FMY/APF/PGD from the north have just a couple minutes in ZMA airspace before handoff to RSW approach, which means if you miss a bad code because THE loving THING TIMESHARES WHO THE EVERLIVING gently caress THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA, well, thats' just too bad for you. RSW approach won't see the flashing target, despite the fact that it will very happily flash to them. ERAM is a human factors nightmare.
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Mar 24, 2016 04:03
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MrYenko posted:ERAM is a human factors nightmare. My favorite thing is with side stream handoffs flashing SIDE for 20 minutes instead of information I actually want to see. Why the gently caress do I care if it's a side stream handoff and why the gently caress does it need to display it in the data block? Nobody has been able to come up with a good reason for it.
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Mar 24, 2016 04:53
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MrYenko posted:RSW approach won't see the flashing target, despite the fact that it will very happily flash to them. .......Seriously? Jesus christ. Our radar gives a "beacon code mismatch" or flashing "IF" warning if we try to hand off a tag for an airplane that has the wrong transponder code selected. Then it will blink "HO" to remind us that a handoff needs to be completed as the target gets within a certain distance of the airspace boundary. What the gently caress, ERAM? fknlo posted:My favorite thing is with side stream handoffs flashing SIDE for 20 minutes instead of information I actually want to see. Why the gently caress do I care if it's a side stream handoff and why the gently caress does it need to display it in the data block? Nobody has been able to come up with a good reason for it. What IS a side stream handoff?
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Mar 24, 2016 10:56
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The Ferret King posted:
It's from certain types of handoffs between centers. Either when you force a handoff to a center that an aircraft's route doesn't go through because it's deviating and you're too lazy to update the route, or when you bypass handing an aircraft whose route takes it through one center into another by only flashing it at the second center and pointing it out to the first. I'm surrounded on 3 sides by other center's so I see it a lot. SIDE replaces speed in the data block because it's obviously more important to know. enjoy this ms paint drawing 
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Mar 24, 2016 15:06
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Ah, that function seems nice but yeah the implementation is stupid. In the terminal environment, it just fails to hand off if you try to send it to a different sector without first amending the route to cross into that second sector. We'll occasionally ask other facilities to flash stuff on through to the next and take a point out. Then they have to call us back when the second facility accepts the handoff. Not ideal but it's how we have to accomplish that when we feel it's needed. We get to see the groundspeed the entire time too!
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Mar 24, 2016 15:14
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The Ferret King posted:Ah, that function seems nice but yeah the implementation is stupid. That's how it used to work in Host. The new functionality is great; The interface is still an abortion on wheels.
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Mar 24, 2016 16:56
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fknlo posted:It's absolutely a thing. Especially with Sky West. He told us he'd be able to give us at least .74 once he leveled off. Jesus. When I'm told "maintain .74 or less for spacing" an expletive literally comes out of my mouth. I can't imagine flying that slowly the rest of the time. Had a medical emergency today and Seattle Approach was totally on it. "delete the speeds on the arrival, expect 16L" (16l is the good runway there), tower asked our gate, then after we rolled out just gave us our taxi instructions without us having to call ground or ramp. (I actually wish that when exiting 16L at P for spot 88 that we could just skip calling ground entirely cause... you're on bravo for like 15 feet basically already crossing it by the time they tell you "go to spot 88 and contact ramp", it's entirely pointless..
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Mar 25, 2016 02:38
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Sounds pretty typical for a medical emergency. DFW gets a couple daily, it seems. They always land on the inboard parallels closest to the terminal so they can meet the ambulance ASAP. It doesn't usually disrupt the operation too much and it's nice to do a Good Thing. People always be trying to die on commercial flights.
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Mar 25, 2016 02:40
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The Slaughter posted:Had a medical emergency today and Seattle Approach was totally on it. "delete the speeds on the arrival, expect 16L" Does "delete the speeds on the arrival" mean to fly as fast as you want?
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Mar 25, 2016 03:22
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Yeah. Except we still followed the 250 below 10,000 ft speed limit FAR even though we could deviate for the emergency if needed, based on guidance from a chief pilot memo that basically said "yeah, don't do that." I probably would anyway if someone was doing chest compressions or something but given the severity of our incident it would have been tough to explain why we just straight up ignored the memo. Probably would have only saved like 2 minutes at most anyway.
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Mar 25, 2016 04:01
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The Locator posted:Does "delete the speeds on the arrival" mean to fly as fast as you want? Yeah, like Slaughter stated. We'll also delete the speeds when they're not needed even if no emergency exists. This might be because it's slow or the aircraft arrives at our boundary tied with someone from another side of our airspace and we need to create some stagger by keeping one fast. When it starts to get super busy, the speeds on the arrival are nice because you don't have to worry about forgetting to slow down one guy in the middle of a line of 15. And, if the restrictions are issued early enough, flight crews don't have to react to last minute changes. Well, in theory. Some of the procedures are built with very tight tolerances as it is, and controllers love to change their minds.
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Mar 25, 2016 10:54
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The Ferret King posted:Yeah, like Slaughter stated. We'll also delete the speeds when they're not needed even if no emergency exists. This might be because it's slow or the aircraft arrives at our boundary tied with someone from another side of our airspace and we need to create some stagger by keeping one fast. Our metroplex team is having fits designing our new procedures (including descend/climb via procedures,) because at this point in development, the simulated aircraft are all B738s with identical operating characteristics and every day is a perfect standard-day. (59°F and 29.92inHg,) which is clearly ridiculous, but even with those restrictions they're still having a hard time making some of it work... 
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Mar 25, 2016 16:24
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MrYenko posted:Our metroplex team is having fits designing our new procedures (including descend/climb via procedures,) because at this point in development, the simulated aircraft are all B738s with identical operating characteristics and every day is a perfect standard-day. (59°F and 29.92inHg,) which is clearly ridiculous, but even with those restrictions they're still having a hard time making some of it work... Once implemented there will always be a CRJ-200 at the front of the pack giving you 270+ and climbing at about 300 feet per minute. The one plus to this is that when you slow a 737 down it will be out of FL600 before the RJ gets out of the vertical limits of the approach control. I think T75 and STL purposely put the shittiest jets at the front of a push. Oh yeah, don't forget the BE40 satellite airport departure that they'll throw in there somewhere.
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Mar 25, 2016 17:48
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poo poo rolls uphill before it can roll downhill.
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Mar 25, 2016 17:56
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fknlo posted:Once implemented there will always be a CRJ-200 at the front of the pack giving you 270+ and climbing at about 300 feet per minute. The one plus to this is that when you slow a 737 down it will be out of FL600 before the RJ gets out of the vertical limits of the approach control. Miami Approach: EA50s leading the charge, all day, erry day.
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Mar 25, 2016 18:03
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STARS are fun! But our box is stupid, so you've got to watch it. The E175 logic is "I should stay as high as I possibly can for as long as I possibly can, ignore any tailwind, and maintain the descent path angle that the pilot specifies. A power idle full board descent is the most fuel efficient. Don't worry about getting any icing or anything that requires an increase in power and therefore keeps you crazy high." One example would be this arrival: http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1603/00582HAWKZ_C.PDF If you do nothing, it will basically cross PIKEZ at 15,000, BREVE at 11,000, but it will then potentially level off if the distance is long enough (In practice with the descent angle it will probably keep going down slowly but it may plan to cross NETTZ at like 9200 and KWEST at 8500 or something. You may see the problem.. you now have 5 miles to get from 8500 ft to 6000 AND slow to 210 kts.. with a tailwind and icing speeds you're boned. So, I put KWEST at a hard 7000 in the box and that makes everything muchhhh smoother and easier and probably burns an extra 25 lbs of gas. If you're not careful, little things on the STAR like this will burn you. Gotta be smarter than the box. We also manually will change the descent angle to like 2.7 or 2.5 if we have a bad tailwind/expect ice/etc. Also I like to plan no boards on the arrival because I may end up needing them if I get hosed, and full board is fairly turbulent and uncomfortable in the back. If I plan power idle with boards out I have zero tricks left for being high/fast other than "unable the restriction plz vector thks" and that would just be embarrassing (side note: do you get annoyed when planes do this?)
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Mar 25, 2016 19:15
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It's not a problem until it is. But it's usually fine. Might get you closer than comfortable to the departure stream but we'd rather know sooner than later so we can make a new plan. It gets approved all the time at DFW and most controllers blame the center sector anyways. Not the pilot. I've noticed we don't go crazy with the pilot deviations when aircraft just miss the restrictions without saying anything either. I've been pretty impressed with DFW's culture regarding that.
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Mar 25, 2016 21:17
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From the center POV, it's cool if you can't make a restriction, but let us know as soon as you know you can't do it. We can make a new plan (and we'll try like hell to not spin you,) but if you don't say anything, we're expecting you to be where we told you. Personally, if I think it may be an issue (traffic held you up high, or lovely winds,) I'll issue "cross BOBIO at one zero thousand and two five zero knots, if unable advise." Ninety nine times out of a hundred when you miss a restriction without telling anyone, the receiving controller just mumbles something under their breath about the other guy's parentage or sexual predilections regarding farm animals, but that hundredth time, he may have been counting on that restriction to separate airplanes. UNRELATED CONTENT The staffing chickens are coming home to roost this week. Four controllers just left for other facilities, and there's almost no one here. We've been moaning and bitching for three years that this was coming, and management is acting all sorts of surprised that we can't keep seven sectors open with d sides on half of them with eight controllers, and have any breaks at all. (When I got here we had 48 CPCs in the area, and now we have 28, with another three scheduled to leave in the next three months.) 140min plugin, followed by a 20 minute break, and I haven't gotten to train yet this week, nor is next week looking any better. 
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Mar 25, 2016 22:45
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And it's still getting worse, Agency-wide
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Mar 25, 2016 22:52
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The Ferret King posted:And it's still getting worse, Agency-wide Make that four leaving, I just relieved a retiree from his very last plugin. He was here on a ten hour overtime. Baller as gently caress.
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Mar 25, 2016 23:58
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There's light at the end of the tunnel. https://youtu.be/QPE8hspaI1k This guy just started here.
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Mar 28, 2016 15:37
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kmcormick9 posted:There's light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not sure how to feel about this.
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Mar 28, 2016 23:18
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MrYenko posted:Our metroplex team is having fits designing our new procedures (including descend/climb via procedures,) because at this point in development, the simulated aircraft are all B738s with identical operating characteristics and every day is a perfect standard-day. (59°F and 29.92inHg,) which is clearly ridiculous, but even with those restrictions they're still having a hard time making some of it work... Hasn't happened to me in a while as we retired GCRPH (nickname Crap H by crews, MSN approx 420 of the A320) a while back but I do remember climbing at 270 knots as required trying to actually get any rate a-loving-tall south out of MAN with a 110 knot Jet up the arse... Needless to say Heathrow arrivals were not amused when we plowed through the early morning stacks at about FL200 as we could not physically reach crusing level before France... Thank heavens they made the sharklets, these new A321s feel almost as good as a 757... As an aside... do you guys see the difference between new (have performance) and old (flying brick) A320 series on your screens? Edit: Oh lord - someone in the Gambia has brought her out of retirement... and she was a pile of... hjp766 fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 00:19
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hjp766 posted:Hasn't happened to me in a while as we retired GCRPH (nickname Crap H by crews, MSN approx 420 of the A320) a while back but I do remember climbing at 270 knots as required trying to actually get any rate a-loving-tall south out of MAN with a 110 knot Jet up the arse... Needless to say Heathrow arrivals were not amused when we plowed through the early morning stacks at about FL200 as we could not physically reach crusing level before France... Thank heavens they made the sharklets, these new A321s feel almost as good as a 757... We see A318/319/320/321. Past that, no, our information treats them all the same. I think there's a different identifier for A320Neos, but I cant remember what it is.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:23
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MrYenko posted:Our metroplex team is having fits designing our new procedures (including descend/climb via procedures,) because at this point in development, the simulated aircraft are all B738s with identical operating characteristics and every day is a perfect standard-day. (59°F and 29.92inHg,) which is clearly ridiculous, but even with those restrictions they're still having a hard time making some of it work... Hmmm. Building STARs around SWA 73's doing .74M/260K in the descent isn't going to be pretty with corporate guys like me trying to maintain .85M/350K. I like that you and your fellow cave dwellers have been nice enough to reroute us over Ormond on the FRWAY5 lately when we race up on a line of Wonder Bread jets heading into FLL and MIA. Since Florida airspace architecture is so narrow, would high speed/low speed STARS make sense or does it dick things up at the arrival gate? We climb out at fairly normal speeds, but we scream in the descent - particularly if we left the boss back in NYC (noise at higher IAS).
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Mar 29, 2016 02:32
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I'm curious how STAR/SID design works. Is it done by controllers, or by specialized experts in procedure design, or what?
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Mar 29, 2016 03:46
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PT6A posted:I'm curious how STAR/SID design works. Is it done by controllers, or by specialized experts in procedure design, or what? It's handled by office personnel and usually involves controller input. Big facilities have an Airspace and Planning & Procedures office. ausgezeichnet posted:Hmmm. Building STARs around SWA 73's doing .74M/260K in the descent isn't going to be pretty with corporate guys like me trying to maintain .85M/350K. I like that you and your fellow cave dwellers have been nice enough to reroute us over Ormond on the FRWAY5 lately when we race up on a line of Wonder Bread jets heading into FLL and MIA. Since Florida airspace architecture is so narrow, would high speed/low speed STARS make sense or does it dick things up at the arrival gate? We climb out at fairly normal speeds, but we scream in the descent - particularly if we left the boss back in NYC (noise at higher IAS). First time I've heard about SWA jets being slow, haha. Is it just traffic congestion? I mean, if it's busy, nobody can go fast. That's just how it works.
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Mar 29, 2016 11:58
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ausgezeichnet posted:Hmmm. Building STARs around SWA 73's doing .74M/260K in the descent isn't going to be pretty with corporate guys like me trying to maintain .85M/350K. I like that you and your fellow cave dwellers have been nice enough to reroute us over Ormond on the FRWAY5 lately when we race up on a line of Wonder Bread jets heading into FLL and MIA. Since Florida airspace architecture is so narrow, would high speed/low speed STARS make sense or does it dick things up at the arrival gate? We climb out at fairly normal speeds, but we scream in the descent - particularly if we left the boss back in NYC (noise at higher IAS). If you ever get to UK airspace plan on 270knots exactly, unless told otherwise... It helps
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Mar 29, 2016 12:38
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Started departure sims today. Two more weeks and I'll finally begin training on the floor.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:25
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The Ferret King posted:Started departure sims today. Two more weeks and I'll finally begin training on the floor.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:08
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The Ferret King posted:Started departure sims today. Two more weeks and I'll finally begin training on the floor. i'll be in ur airspace killin ur doodz pew pew motherfucker also we need 20 left for weather any chance direct our destination airport after that
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Mar 29, 2016 23:32
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I'll approve anything... once.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:38
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ausgezeichnet posted:Hmmm. Building STARs around SWA 73's doing .74M/260K in the descent isn't going to be pretty with corporate guys like me trying to maintain .85M/350K. I like that you and your fellow cave dwellers have been nice enough to reroute us over Ormond on the FRWAY5 lately when we race up on a line of Wonder Bread jets heading into FLL and MIA. Since Florida airspace architecture is so narrow, would high speed/low speed STARS make sense or does it dick things up at the arrival gate? We climb out at fairly normal speeds, but we scream in the descent - particularly if we left the boss back in NYC (noise at higher IAS). I can tell you to slow down. I can't make the A321 climb any faster, or get the Eclipse jet to do 270kts. The Slaughter posted:also we need 20 left for weather "Direct destination would keep us clear of all this weather..."
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Mar 29, 2016 23:42
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The Ferret King posted:I'll approve anything... once. Twice. Remember, you will have a last day.
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Mar 30, 2016 07:20
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The Ferret King posted:First time I've heard about SWA jets being slow, haha. Is it just traffic congestion? I mean, if it's busy, nobody can go fast. That's just how it works. SWA went to a FMS cost index of 20 when their fuel hedges went tits up a few years ago, so now the Kernals descend at .74M/260K. Anybody there with a brain (and who wants to grab some Burger King during the turn) flies at a more reasonable speed, but as you indicated you can only go as fast as the slowest guy. Which is bullshit. I get paid a salary and have a 2.5 hour drive home. 
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Mar 30, 2016 14:57
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