Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
GreenMarine
Apr 25, 2009

Switchblade Switcharoo
Okay, was posting from my phone before while traveling. It's good to have a real keyboard again.

I finished Nemesis. Oh man, what a mess. When I said earlier I didn't think it was that bad, I was about 1/4th of the way in. Things actually weren't too bad, but quickly went off the rails.

- The officio assassinorum are all idiots. In every appearance they are bickering and fighting, one-upping each other. Not in any subtle or effective way, just pure passive aggression. They have no particular plan for how to take out Horus, but they decide to throw some of their very limited resources at it anyway. In a decision that boggles the mind, they choose to put an estranged brother and sister together on the team, which leads to the next point.

- The assassins are all idiots. They are in-fighting from the very start. The Culexis and Eversor are barely able to functionally contribute and unable to do any real planning. They also throw in some hacker assassin who isn't fit for field work at all - the other assassins acknowledge this and when he does get into combat he dies almost immediately (although this is late in the book, him having mostly avoided fighting until that point). The brother and sister are deep into co-dependent emotional sabotage on every page they show up on. If I had to guess what was going on, is that each temple of the assassinorum picked their worst assassin hoping to clear their books of a liability. The emotional conflicts get in the way of the mission and are also really poorly written, such that I couldn't wait until one of them died and I didn't have to read that stuff anymore.

- Most outcomes end in failure - just as planned. The Vindicare shoots his target before identifying him. We get one shot, let's take it without checking who we're shooting at. Woops we shot the wrong guy. Luc Sedirae gets his head shot off instead of Horus. Horus twirls his moustache - all as planned, I needed to get rid of Captain Sedirae because he was a pain in my butt. Horus was expecting them to shoot without looking??? The assassinorum spend their post mission meeting time counting up all the upsides of the mission disaster. Hey, we got Captain Sedirae - god job everyone, crack open the brandy. MIssion Accomplished.

- Half the book is a gumshoe mystery without a point. It follows a side story of the backworld investigator and his hard rear end boss. Oh the politics, why won't they just let me solve the crime? The story never really develops, getting cut off as the investigator is revealed to be the demon killer in disguise! Gasp! It's boring and a distraction from what we want from the book: competent assassins cleverly hunting renegade astartes...except there isn't any of that in the book so the space cops are mostly a distraction from the latex bumble squad.

- Minor complaint: Sons of Horus wearing grey? They were wearing white in Fallen Angels. By this time they should be in green. The books are all inconsistent about which marks of armor and what colors the Sons have. It's minor, but annoying and seems like an easy thing to get right.

- It's annoying the author refers to the Eversor assassin as the Garantine. Why make up another word to refer to the guy with a made up word that's already established in the lore?

Ok, sorry about the rant. I took a bunch of these books on the plane with me because they are pretty easy to rip through. I wanted this one to be good because...assassins...but it was very disappointing.

I can spoiler tag this, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows Horus didn't get assassinated...

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

panascope
Mar 26, 2005

The only good part of Nemesis is the first chapter where they feed the poison assassin his own poison and then he pisses himself to death or whatever.

GreenMarine
Apr 25, 2009

Switchblade Switcharoo

panascope posted:

The only good part of Nemesis is the first chapter where they feed the poison assassin his own poison and then he pisses himself to death or whatever.

That guy had a better chance to kill Horus than the Execution Force ever had...and the Officio Assassinorum made note of that, but sent the other assassins anyway.

Lord Twisted
Apr 3, 2010

In the Emperor's name, let none survive.
I'm in an annoying situation where Im going to a tourney so really I need both books... But I dint want to buy a book soon to be invalidated. Might have to eBay troll for the Legion list so I have something to bring along with the leviathan as a PDF.

Mango Polo
Aug 4, 2007
Why, hello there you saucy little things.





















Those backpacks are just as cool as the guns.

Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Mar 25, 2016

GreenMarine
Apr 25, 2009

Switchblade Switcharoo
Yeah those are just great! I really want to gear up a couple squads with the volkite and the autocannons.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer
Those heavy weapons are cool and all and I might eventually pick up those heavy bolters to run a gimmick Dark Angel acid shell squad. Realistically, I probably wouldn't ever use them though. I hate static units.

What I really want though? A terminator combi-weapon pack. I know there are a whole two available in the special weapons pack, but I want way more than that and none of the other junk that comes in that thing. Ghost Hand, please tell your friends at FW that a pack like this would sell really well. Terminator volkites would also probably sell to someone. Especially Alpha Legion players.

Yeah, I know there's a combi-weapon pack already, but that's for power armored models so the hands are too small and the guns aren't right. :spergin: I'm magnetizing a bunch of my plastic cataphractii so I want a bunch of options. Even a loving combi-grenade launcher if Dark Angels can shove stasis shells into them.

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT
The individual type packs would be amazing in general like the power armor special weapons kits.
10 of the mk2 broadsword power swords look sooooo good. poo poo like that.

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011

Safety Factor posted:

What I really want though? A terminator combi-weapon pack. I know there are a whole two available in the special weapons pack, but I want way more than that and none of the other junk that comes in that thing. Ghost Hand, please tell your friends at FW that a pack like this would sell really well. Terminator volkites would also probably sell to someone. Especially Alpha Legion players.

the volkites look fine on cataphractii imo

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

the volkites look fine on cataphractii imo
Nah. The hands are too small.

I realize I am one of the few that actually care about such things.

A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011
actually having larger armor for your hands wouldn't really make sense in universe because it would limit manual dexterity for next to no reason and would make it so you had to manufacture two varieties of weapons (terminator and power armor) so it is YOU who is awful

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT
So I know I asked this last month but who has/is doing a league for 30k. Trying to figure out if I want to do any kind of overall structure or just people fighting, tallying up points for each team (since we have an almost perfect split for traitor and loyalists)
I'm thinking about starting at 1k with the ZM FOC and havnt decided what the ceiling will be, need to figure out how big everyone is comfortable is going but im hoping for around 2500.

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

actually having larger armor for your hands wouldn't really make sense in universe because it would limit manual dexterity for next to no reason and would make it so you had to manufacture two varieties of weapons (terminator and power armor) so it is YOU who is awful
Woah, hey now, I never called you names or said anything regarding your or my own awfulness. I would readily admit to that, myself, and I already acknowledged I am probably one of the few who cares about stuff like this. Anyways, logical or not, terminators have larger hands than power armored models. That's not something I made up. It's true. I just want weapons packs that take this into account because :spergin: and because there needs to be an easier way to get combi-weapons for terminators.

Sulecrist
Apr 5, 2007

Better tear off this bar association logo.

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

actually having larger armor for your hands wouldn't really make sense in universe because it would limit manual dexterity for next to no reason and would make it so you had to manufacture two varieties of weapons (terminator and power armor) so it is YOU who is awful

Their fingers don't actually go in the fingers. The armor fingers are physically bigger, sure, but for all we know they're actually more dexterous because they don't have to accommodate actual human fingers in there. (Although in at least some books there aren't meat fingers inside regular power armor fingers, either, so I don't know.)

panascope
Mar 26, 2005

Hencoe posted:

So I know I asked this last month but who has/is doing a league for 30k. Trying to figure out if I want to do any kind of overall structure or just people fighting, tallying up points for each team (since we have an almost perfect split for traitor and loyalists)
I'm thinking about starting at 1k with the ZM FOC and havnt decided what the ceiling will be, need to figure out how big everyone is comfortable is going but im hoping for around 2500.

Bulbasaur wrote up a bunch of league rules for us to run our campaign, it's fun. 30k is great at low points because every game turns into a meat grinder and I like that. It's boring to take all your models off the table on the first turn.

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT

panascope posted:

Bulbasaur wrote up a bunch of league rules for us to run our campaign, it's fun. 30k is great at low points because every game turns into a meat grinder and I like that. It's boring to take all your models off the table on the first turn.

That isn't changing individual units? There's like 20 dudes interested and I don't want to deal with possible fallout from someone thinking someone else's house rules made something OP, and with that many people it will probably happen anyways with the regular unit rules.

Either way I'm interested to look through it.

Hixson
Mar 27, 2009

panascope posted:

Bulbasaur wrote up a bunch of league rules for us to run our campaign, it's fun. 30k is great at low points because every game turns into a meat grinder and I like that. It's boring to take all your models off the table on the first turn.

unless those models are adlance

panascope
Mar 26, 2005

Hixson posted:

unless those models are adlance

The exception that proves the rule.

Hencoe posted:

That isn't changing individual units? There's like 20 dudes interested and I don't want to deal with possible fallout from someone thinking someone else's house rules made something OP, and with that many people it will probably happen anyways with the regular unit rules.

Either way I'm interested to look through it.

We have two sets of rules basically. One that's changing individual units to rebalance some of the more poorly done stuff like Justaerin or Assault Marines, and another set that has the different areas you can attack in our campaign and the ways they buff your army.

DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.
I'm abit torn on how to paint my 30k wolves. FWs own scheme seems fine, but this also seems cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN5WjdtKTZI

The main difference between the two approaches is that FW basecoats the entire model with dawnstone, whereas this guy just highlights.

Germ
May 7, 2013

Getting set for my first game of 30k tomorrow, 2500 points of my Raven Guard vs an Ultramarines army. Any suggestions for a first mission?

panascope
Mar 26, 2005

Play the one where all the terrain catches on fire.

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT
War of Lies, Ambush deployment.

(Don't do this please)

Safety Factor
Oct 31, 2009




Grimey Drawer

Germ posted:

Getting set for my first game of 30k tomorrow, 2500 points of my Raven Guard vs an Ultramarines army. Any suggestions for a first mission?
If you or someone you know has book VI, there's a list of generic 30k missions towards the back. Six missions and six deployment styles with some decent variety.


panascope posted:

Play the one where all the terrain catches on fire.
Or this. This sounds fun.

Germ
May 7, 2013

Great, thanks! I'll report back in afterwards.

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat
Our updated red Istvaan Legions books came today.

Definitely don't buy these if you already have the older one. Besides a few tweaks none of the new stuff is in here- which includes the new ROWs.

DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.
Does it atleast have the updated units?

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat
Just updated units and the LA tweaks for a few legions. None of the new ROW, special characters, or new legions from book 6.

DJ Dizzy
Feb 11, 2009

Real men don't use bolters.
Well. "placeholders"

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT

BULBASAUR posted:

Just updated units and the LA tweaks for a few legions. None of the new ROW, special characters, or new legions from book 6.

Well it does have the iron circle :v:

Hencoe fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Mar 29, 2016

panascope
Mar 26, 2005

Hencoe posted:

Well it does have the iron circle :v:

Too bad nobody in our group plays Iron Warriors.

Hixson
Mar 27, 2009

panascope posted:

Too bad nobody in our group plays Iron Warriors.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
BULBASAUR shames both Iron Warriors and Traitors everywhere

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT
It's like Istvaan III all over again.

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat
Jokes on you nerds, I've been playing loyalist Alpha Legion this whole time :unsmigghh:

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT

BULBASAUR posted:

Jokes on you nerds, I've been playing loyalist Alpha Legion this whole time :unsmigghh:

Give me your campaign docs, I want to steal ideas. Please.

GreenMarine
Apr 25, 2009

Switchblade Switcharoo
Bulba, how can you fail Perturabo. Again and again, rejection. Again and again, failure. Your primarch gives everything to make your legion the greatest and you spurn him. Thankless, that mantle. He bears it alone. How long must the decimation continue until you return to the fold?

Speaking of Alpha Legion, I may now be a Word Bearers player. I'm a little tired of the "we can't tell you anything about what the Alpha Legion are doing, we'd have to kill you...besides we don't know anyway." And reading The First Heretic has me mos def converted to the cause of the Urizen.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
I converted to the Emperor's Children because idk if I can play the same legion as BULBASAUR pretends to

Hencoe
Sep 4, 2012

MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT
Salt within, salt without. Only the truely bitter stay the course.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Yeah and not use the rules of the Iron Hands

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat

Hencoe posted:

Give me your campaign docs, I want to steal ideas. Please.

Campaign Rules
League Rules

The rules for the campaign are the last 5 pages- the rest is mostly fluff. Pages 3-9 have rules for different strategic objectives. The rules are a streamlined version of the conquest campaign from book 5. The only thing we added was escalation and a unit mustering system, meaning that we have a roster of units you use in your games. Once you add something you can't remove it and each campaign turn you can unlock more units. If you run a big campaign you'll either need a dedicated TO to handle this or just cut it out entirely. We don't review lists, but I do keep track of people's musters before games.

If I get talked into running another one I'll do a few things different:
  • The character advancement system rewards too heavily. We toned it down, but I don't feel it was enough. Everyone will have 6 or more by the time we're through. Some of the advancements are also really bad. I'd create custom tables and turn every game you play into a dice roll. If you attack you get an advancement point on 3+, if you defend on a 4+. Maybe with modifiers like being in combat or sweeping a unit to increase your roll. I don't want to over-complicate it, but the bottom line is that progression needs to get slowed down and reward people for not babying characters.
  • The core missions seem familiar, but they aren't. Set aside time before each game to make sure everyone understands what they are playing. Get verbal agreement and get attention even if it annoys people. We had a lovely situation where the rules got read off before the game, but one of the teams didn't really pay attention or assumed they knew it. Halfway through the game there was another reminder, but it wasn't taken seriously. Bottom line- nobody was happy by the end and it wasn't fair for either group.
  • If you run a long campaign there needs to be agreement for how to handle re-mustering of units, book updates, or FAQs. Before we even started Stanyer asked to use his real legion rules once they dropped, but we hadn't though about how this would affect his muster. He ended up switching things around to have a legal army. It was easy to resolve by committee, but in bigger groups this won't work. Panascope was cheating up his unit muster a few turns into the campaign. Again, no big deal if everyone knows everyone or really cares, but you need rules for that sort of thing if you're playing with strangers who take their toys super seriously.
  • Mission 6 needs tweaks to work fairly. As it stands, it's basically a mission that comes down to how well you roll dice at the very end of the game on a table. We tweaked it so that you uncover the value of each objective once you walk up to it (a-la mysterious objectives). Anything that gives players a chance to react to the objectives should work here.
  • We haven't played "Ambush!' but it might be one you reserve for special missions as it favors one side.
  • There needs to be a runaway game option for loosing teams. Our campaign isn't lopsided yet, but it very well could be. There should be an all-or-nothing option in the case the campaign needs to end or is too far skewed in one direction. The book 5 campaign system has some ideas for this, but it's not really elegant. I'd consider something like trading in all your reserve points for a single massive battle- each strategic objective the loosing side controls gives them a perk, but they can only tie the campaign. Or, each strategic objective the winning side controls has some perk, but if the looser wins they get a pyrrhic campaign victory.

As for tweaks to sucktastic units and placeholder legion rules, make sure everyone agrees to the changes before you start. Everyone got something special and we all agreed on them well before our campaign started. If your group isn't small, sticking to generic tweaks everyone can take. I like seeing people running things like assault marines, plasma dodos, breachers, plasma pistols, and that sort of thing. Another good one is allowing consuls to unlock ROW or lifting the support officer restriction. If you play small games like we did that'll go a long way to letting people bring fluffy interesting lists.

:words: :words: :words:

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply