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Does anyone have any general points of advice on running a campaign of 4E on roll20 these days? I'm considering it, but am a bit lost in terms of where to start. My DDI subscription lapsed ages ago so I'm not sure where I (or my players) would get access to the giant repository of rules elements we used to use in creating characters/etc - is the offline character builder the only real option these days? If it is, any suggested monster repositories? I've got hard copies of a few of the better 4E books (e.g. Monster Vault) but the ability to search based on level/role/etc in the DDI database was awesome. And in terms of actually running things on roll20 - anyone have experience using their 4E character sheet and/or any alternatives? I took a quick look and it seems pretty bare-bones, but my only experience with online 4E back in the day was in MapTools, so my confidence level when it comes to building something for 4E in roll20 from scratch is pretty low.
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Mar 22, 2016 03:51
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I've been running a roll20 campaign since Dec last year and I've never used DDI: just working off of the PDFs and copying all relevant information into a Google Doc full of statblocks and notes. It's the players that want/need the DDI for character construction, but you could just as well say "ok, only use PHB 1 and 2" and it'd still work as long as you deal with the feat taxes.
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Mar 22, 2016 03:57
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I also run a Roll20 campaign. I use PDFs for monster stats as well, except I copy-paste them to paint 'cause I'm a low-effort motherfucker. My biggest piece of advice is that getting players to build good macros is really worth it. Macros that emulate power cards - giving action type, triggers, keywords, everything - are super valuable. My players don't use the built-in Roll20 sheets for much; they generally stick with sheets provided by the offline builder.
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Mar 22, 2016 04:39
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Charm/Psychic based Bard build viable? I was thinking about stacking Psychic Lock and Beguiling Charm to debuff enemies mostly, along with possibly having thunder AOEs on the side to use along with the Thunderous Anguish wand, but I didn't actually see that many AOE thunder powers on Bard to use. Mostly using the wiki to look up what powers do and to find out where to find them, since I don't have access to anything DDI related.
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Mar 22, 2016 19:38
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As a bard you can pick up arcane multiclasses and then take Resourceful Magician to be able to poach powers from any arcane class you have an MC for, so you can grab some more AoEs that way. Wand of Thundering Anguish works really well with Staggering Note as one of your bard at-wills. The 4e Bard Guide was copied here
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Mar 22, 2016 20:05
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Anonymous Robot posted:What I'm looking for is a creature that's kind of ambiguously intelligent. Its capacity for strategic thought, intelligent communication, and the like should be a potential point of contention in an argument between the player and DM. I'm thinking something along the lines of a creature that might be used as an assassin by a more major villain, but when you think about it more closely it seems a little questionable that they'd even care or possess the faculties to be able to be involved in a purposeful mission like that. Invisible Stalker is a good one tbh.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:16
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LightWarden posted:As a bard you can pick up arcane multiclasses and then take Resourceful Magician to be able to poach powers from any arcane class you have an MC for, so you can grab some more AoEs that way. Wand of Thundering Anguish works really well with Staggering Note as one of your bard at-wills. Thanks! Though due to character, I don't think Resourceful Magician is an option. Was going to go with the Entrancing Mystic PP from AP since I have so many charm and psychic spells, and am probably going to pick up more. Good catch on Staggering Note though. Might have a second idea for bard after this campaign's done though.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:39
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Personally I prefer Lifesinger over Entrancing Mystic for a charm-based bard (or wizard). Better powers, though the AP feature is worse (not that Entrancing Mystic's AP feature is stellar to begin with). As far as level 16 features go I prefer Lifesinger's reroll over Entrancing Mystic's +1 to hit and power preservation, since the reroll applies to a bunch of other fun powers the bard might pick up (such as staggering note) or the various illusion powers a wizard has. The level 11 feature of Lifesinger is perfectly serviceable, though Entrancing Mystic's save penalty aura is legitimately great if you've got some killer dailies in the party, but I find the three square range limit requires staying uncomfortably close to the action. Entrancing Mystic is still a great option though, this is just personal preference. It's a tough decision.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:00
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LightWarden posted:Entrancing Mystic is still a great option though, this is just personal preference. That's good to hear. Reason I'm picking Entrancing Mystic is mostly because it fits the character better, so it's nice to hear that it isn't purely sub-optimal of a choice. Yukari fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 22, 2016 23:14
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I also had another question. What is normal striker damage ranges supposed to be at at level 2-3? DM is wondering wtf's going on when the chargebarb is cranking out 2d6 (brutal 1) + 1d6 + STR + 1d8 + 1 (vanguard weapon) damage on a charge at-will. The other striker is a beastmaster Ranger which usually does 1d10 +1 x2 + 1d6 quarry. Is the ranger just unoptimized or does it have a power spike later on when we get more magic items, and is the barbarian's damage what is "normal" for a striker of that level on at-wills in comparison to using a daily/encounter?
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Mar 24, 2016 17:05
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Yukari posted:I also had another question. What is normal striker damage ranges supposed to be at at level 2-3? DM is wondering wtf's going on when the chargebarb is cranking out 2d6 (brutal 1) + 1d6 + STR + 1d8 + 1 (vanguard weapon) damage on a charge at-will. The other striker is a beastmaster Ranger which usually does 1d10 +1 x2 + 1d6 quarry. Is the ranger just unoptimized or does it have a power spike later on when we get more magic items, and is the barbarian's damage what is "normal" for a striker of that level on at-wills in comparison to using a daily/encounter? On the other hand, ranger is also pretty item dependent, and it doesn't sound like he's got much yet. Twin Strike doesn't come into its own until you get a bunch of flat +damage. He'll come back in line when he gets +item (generally from a wrist slot) and +feat (weapon focus) bonuses to damage. And since he'll be using TS on his turn, most of his encounters and dailies should be off turn actions, which he gets way more of than the barb. That starts to add up. Plus he's a beast master, which isn't helping anything.
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Mar 24, 2016 17:21
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Beastmaster rangers are the weakest of all rangers because the ranger's big thing is multiattacks and beastmasters don't get much of them. That said it's perfectly fine to play a Beastmaster ranger who grabs nothing but archery multiattack powers and uses the beast as a meatwall or whatever but taking powers that involve the beast attacking are usually lackluster. Rangers benefit immensely from static bonuses to damage from things like weapon focus, bracers of archery, bonus damage from a leader, extra bonuses from elemental damage and things like that. Rangers do ramp up as they level because you can get more ways to spam attacks per round (multiattacks with your standard, an attack with your minor, an attack with your immediate, leader granted attacks) and more ways to boost their static damage with feats like Prime Punisher or Lasting Frost, or feats that let them boost crit range and make extra attacks on a crit, plus loads of different magic items and climb to the top of the striker heap fairly well.
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Mar 24, 2016 17:22
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After the ranger gets her static bonuses to damage, I should usually be placing echoing weapon on her, right? Does the Echoing Weapon damage gain charge modifiers if the barbarian were to charge with the buff on her weapon? Reason she's a beastmaster instead of any other archetype is mostly due to flavor, where the bard recruited her back in PF, where she was a hunter with a falcon. Oh yeah, coming from a PF/3.5 background, is it normal for the barbarian to be able to charge something, and then next turn, shift or move action backwards, and then charge something else as long as she moves at least 2 squares on the charge? Basically, is she supposed to be able to charge every turn if unhindered? Yukari fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Mar 24, 2016 |
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Mar 24, 2016 17:31
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Yukari posted:Reason she's a beastmaster instead of any other archetype is mostly due to flavor, where the bard recruited her back in PF, where she was a hunter with a falcon. Have you looked at the Fey Beast Tamer theme? With it, she could have a pet with any ranger fighting style she likes. quote:Oh yeah, coming from a PF/3.5 background, is it normal for the barbarian to be able to charge something, and then next turn, shift or move action backwards, and then charge something else as long as she moves at least 2 squares on the charge? Basically, is she supposed to be able to charge every turn if unhindered? Yes, this is normal. You just can't charge with your standard and then shift away with your move on that same turn, because usually charging will end your turn. Most likely the barbarian is also charging a different target every round, which isn't ideal, but whatever.
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Mar 24, 2016 17:50
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Yukari posted:Oh yeah, coming from a PF/3.5 background, is it normal for the barbarian to be able to charge something, and then next turn, shift or move action backwards, and then charge something else as long as she moves at least 2 squares on the charge? Basically, is she supposed to be able to charge every turn if unhindered? Plus IIRC there are a few powers (either utility or as part of a standard action) that actually give them a chance for pre-charge movement for when times like when there's only one enemy to charge.
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Mar 24, 2016 18:43
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What are the good options for making a summoning character? I really would like to with the artificer but it doesn't seem that great. I'm assuming just doing a summoning wizard?
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Mar 24, 2016 18:54
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S.J. posted:What are the good options for making a summoning character? I really would like to with the artificer but it doesn't seem that great. I'm assuming just doing a summoning wizard? I forget if the Protector druid has any good summoning benefits, or if you're just better off with the normal one.
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Mar 24, 2016 19:18
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S.J. posted:What are the good options for making a summoning character? I really would like to with the artificer but it doesn't seem that great. I'm assuming just doing a summoning wizard? Most summons are actually dailies though, so no matter what, you're going to be somewhat limited in what you can do with them unless you start reskinning other powers. Alternately, Shaman is sort of a summoner, and I think the spirit mostly operates on encounter powers. e: 
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Mar 24, 2016 19:22
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Protectors' summons are pretty good and consistent since you get the ability to summon the same one over and over but the normal druid gets some really nice summons (toad and Crocodile I think are the early standouts) with the disadvantage that you can only use each specific summon once per day. Normal druid gets more (and better) options for encounters and I think at-wills too, though.
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Mar 24, 2016 19:26
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Really Pants posted:Have you looked at the Fey Beast Tamer theme? With it, she could have a pet with any ranger fighting style she likes. Yeah, FBT is pretty great, currently using it on my Tempest Fighter as an extra meatbag to throw down on the field and get OAs off with (helped by a generous as heck DM allowing Fighter class features to apply to it which is something I'm pretty certain is how the rules aren't supposed to work). Plus gives me a buddy to use some of my poached Bard powers granting allies MBAs with since the party is 2.5/4 ranged combatants (although thankfully houserules gave everyone a half-decent MBA off prime stat). Still ended up asking the DM to houserule in a feat letting me do a team attack with the beast companion as an encounter power swap so I felt like it wasn't just standing around during fights passively to make OAs most of the time.
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Mar 24, 2016 20:03
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If you take one of the lycanthropes as your theme as a protective druid you can turn into your lycanthrope form and use beast form powers and even use both types of powers at level 10 when you get your hybrid form, though a normal druid will still have one additional at-will. You still get the choice of Primal Guardian/Primal Predator so you can use the riders on all your powers so it's not a bad deal. You get one fewer at-wills and no rituals in exchange for more utilities and a different summoning system. If you spend an additional feat you can also gain wild shape and pick up regular druid dailies instead of additional summon uses.
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Mar 24, 2016 20:10
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You can only summon creatures once a day, but as long as they're kept up, it's not like they can't be used for multiple encounters, right? Especially since you can use your own surges to heal them and keep them going. It's just when they "die," you lose a healing surge and can't bring them back until after an extended rest. I have a druid/cleric hybrid build around here somewhere who summons his own Radiant Mafia through his radiant weapliment...
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Mar 24, 2016 20:21
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I guess I was thinking of using conjurations as encounter powers too, but that helps, thanks. I completely forgot about druid summons.
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Mar 24, 2016 20:55
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If you're going Druid, be sure to pick up Werewolf or Werebear as a theme so that by level 10 you can have a Form that has access to both your Beast Form and regular powers. Plus Bear Up utility power is pretty decent for a Predator Druid who likes to grab his enemies.
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Mar 24, 2016 21:08
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I have made an automatic monster calculator from Gradenko's document earlier in the thread. Choose monster type (skirmisher, controller, etc.), difficulty (normal, elite, solo) and level and it returns a stat block of MM3 math. This may or may not be useful, but I figured might as well. excel doc
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Mar 24, 2016 21:11
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LightWarden posted:Beastmaster rangers are the weakest of all rangers because the ranger's big thing is multiattacks and beastmasters don't get much of them. That said it's perfectly fine to play a Beastmaster ranger who grabs nothing but archery multiattack powers and uses the beast as a meatwall or whatever but taking powers that involve the beast attacking are usually lackluster. Thanks everyone for the tips. The only reason the DM thinks that the barb is going nuts is that her at-will damage is really silly, and that her warlock in another campaign isn't putting out tons of damage like that. I don't know anything about Warlocks, but she's listing her eldritch blast damage at lv6 as 1d10+1d6 (curse)+7-ish. Is Warlock one of the classes that also needs items and feats to scale into damage? Otherwise, is she just missing some damage boosting options or something of that nature?
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Mar 24, 2016 22:05
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Yukari posted:Thanks everyone for the tips. The only reason the DM thinks that the barb is going nuts is that her at-will damage is really silly, and that her warlock in another campaign isn't putting out tons of damage like that. I don't know anything about Warlocks, but she's listing her eldritch blast damage at lv6 as 1d10+1d6 (curse)+7-ish. Is Warlock one of the classes that also needs items and feats to scale into damage? Otherwise, is she just missing some damage boosting options or something of that nature? I'm sure it can be done, but I've never seen a particularly effective warlock.
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Mar 24, 2016 22:08
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Yukari posted:Thanks everyone for the tips. The only reason the DM thinks that the barb is going nuts is that her at-will damage is really silly, and that her warlock in another campaign isn't putting out tons of damage like that. I don't know anything about Warlocks, but she's listing her eldritch blast damage at lv6 as 1d10+1d6 (curse)+7-ish. Is Warlock one of the classes that also needs items and feats to scale into damage? Otherwise, is she just missing some damage boosting options or something of that nature? There's a feat that turns the curse dice into d8s, there's a feat that gives curse dice Brutal, and if you're sorcerer king pact you can get an extra curse dice at every level. There's also a feat that gives you CA against every target you're concealed from, and an armor that increases your defenses against targets you have cursed, so you're highly mobile, hard to pin down, and hard to kill. Which is good because you need to mess around with positioning to get Curses on things. Prime shot doesn't come into play a whole hell of a lot, unfortunately, but it's a nice bonus when it happens.
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Mar 24, 2016 22:23
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Yukari posted:Thanks everyone for the tips. The only reason the DM thinks that the barb is going nuts is that her at-will damage is really silly, and that her warlock in another campaign isn't putting out tons of damage like that. I don't know anything about Warlocks, but she's listing her eldritch blast damage at lv6 as 1d10+1d6 (curse)+7-ish. Is Warlock one of the classes that also needs items and feats to scale into damage? Otherwise, is she just missing some damage boosting options or something of that nature? That said, the barbarian's damage looks really impressive because of all the dice. He's doing an average of 22 damage per swing (assuming a 20 primary). That's high for that level, but the charge package is a perfect fit. And he has to be in melee to do it. The Warlock is doing 16 from range, which isn't amazing, but also assuming a maxed primary, she's not terribly well geared/feated for damage. If that includes prime shot then all she's got is a +1 weapon and maybe one extra +1 from somewhere.
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Mar 24, 2016 22:27
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Warlocks can do great damage if built for it, but they're still probably the least "pure killmachines" amongst non e-class strikers. They're sorta 3/4ths striker, 1/4th controller, and your choice of feats/powers/pacts/etc can futz around with those ratios.
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Mar 24, 2016 22:31
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Gort posted:I'm sure it can be done, but I've never seen a particularly effective warlock. The most effective Warlocks are Sorcerer-King Pact hybrids. Hybrid Swordmage to be both a full defender and full striker, or hybrid Executioner to bury everything in dice.
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Mar 24, 2016 22:59
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Sorcerer king warlocks also have some of the best warlock encounter powers in the last half of the campaign provided you have another striker in the party or someone with a good MBA like a fighter to tag team with. And Twin Pact at paragon means that it's never a bad time to be a sorcerer king warlock. Hexblade warlocks are basically slayers with social skills, teleportation, magic, energy damage and a distressing lack of nova ability.
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Mar 24, 2016 23:12
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Warlocks like everything else do well with radiant keyword powers. Necrotic/poison can be OK but it requires item/feat support to be baseline-level good.
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Mar 24, 2016 23:22
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Thanks again for all of the suggestions and tips. I'm really new to 4e so all of this is helpful. Polearm Momentum, it says if you slide or push the enemy 2 squares or more, you can knock them prone. Does this work if you have Mark of Storm (When you use a thunder or lightning power, slide the target 1), and an ability that pushes or slides them 1, or does it have to be a singleton slide or push that does 2 squares of movement? Wondering if there's something I can do with Polearm momentum on my Gouge wielding Barbarian charger.
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Mar 24, 2016 23:41
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Has to be two or more squares in one push/slide, but picking up items that boost your push/slide distance is fine, such as Rushing Cleats (a level 7 foot slot item that boosts the push/slide effects of your melee and close attacks by 1).
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Mar 24, 2016 23:46
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Apprentice Dick posted:I have made an automatic monster calculator from Gradenko's document earlier in the thread. Choose monster type (skirmisher, controller, etc.), difficulty (normal, elite, solo) and level and it returns a stat block of MM3 math. This may or may not be useful, but I figured might as well. Thanks! This is a lot cleaner than my original work.
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Mar 25, 2016 00:53
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I love warlocks and consider them one of my favorite classes - probably one of the most fun to actually play, for my preferences. But they are absolutely some kind of whacky controller/striker combo and can't really be compared directly to pure strikers like a Barb or a Rogue (and don't compare them to a Ranger, that will just make you depressed). They excel at creating catch 22 situations for the DM, where no matter what choice they make a monster is going to take some damage. They're pretty durable with the right powers and are fairly self-sufficient while still managing okay to good damage. Also, and this is just a general rule, it's not fair for a DM to compare the at-will damage of a caster class to the at-will damage of a weapon-based class. Implement casters just don't do as much at-will damage as their weapon-wielding counterparts, striker or not. This is supposedly balanced against the fact that casters usually target NADs, and maybe it is, but comparing the round-to-round charge damage of a Barbarian to the at-will powers of a Warlock is never going to compare favorably.
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Mar 25, 2016 01:04
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Targetting NADs isn't much of a balance factor since the 2-3 points difference are usually made up for by the fact that attack bonuses vs. AC are 2-3 higher. At most you can try to always target low NADs (tee hee) but whether you can pull that off consistently is another matter. ========== I'm still designing my myconids and I'm almost at a point where I can say with confidence that they're done. Here's what I have (for Level 9): Myconid Controller: has an area burst 2 that deals 12 poison damage and pulls you 1 square towards the origin point. The burst is a zone that's difficult terrain, and if you move in it, you take 5 poison damage (1/turn). Myconid Brute: has a close blast 3 that deals 17 damage, and he gets combat advantage against creatures in the zone. The idea is that the controller lays down the zone and groups enemies together for the brute's attack. You're supposed to be better off moving away (eating up your move action and taking the small poison hit) than being at risk for the brute's attack. Not so sure yet if instead of combat advantage the brute shouldn't maybe get a damage bonus? (I use average damage, by the way. Cuts down on rolling and makes it easier to homebrew monsters with the MM3-on-a-card math.) Also, the poison damage is easily dealt with by potions of resistance, but they're going to meet a lot of these guys, and the cost of potions for the whole party across all encounters isn't insignificant. At that point I figure it becomes an interesting tactical decision rather than a cheap way to shut down an encounter's gimmick.
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Mar 25, 2016 09:48
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Really Pants posted:The most effective Warlocks are Sorcerer-King Pact hybrids. Hybrid Swordmage to be both a full defender and full striker, or hybrid Executioner to bury everything in dice. How would you build that hybrid swordmage?
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Mar 26, 2016 08:25
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Yukari posted:How would you build that hybrid swordmage? Con/Int There is a pretty good build in the responses here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286494-Assistance-required-building-a-Swordmage-Warlock-Coronal-Guard
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Mar 26, 2016 09:31
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