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Arghy posted:gothic has pulled my rear end out of the fire so many times with its 12k lances and the overlord is a goddamn dream against orks. Gothic lances start at 6k and cap out at 9k unless you're somehow installing the range upgrade twice. The only 12k range lances I've seen on IN ships are dorsal lance turrets on the battlecruisers and retribution. I might actually have to give the Tyrant another spin. Torpedoes are good now, so if I went with turbo weaponry and targeting matrix the Tyrant can start uselessly plinking at 15k. Considering the Gothic is the only lance boat IN has and ork guns are inaccurate and really short range, people need to get used to using macros at range more, I guess? I'd probably do a half-half split of my Dauntless cruisers. Fit two for brawling and 2 for longer ranges and see what faction I'm facing. Makes me wish my fleet had 4 cruisers too.
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Mar 26, 2016 12:11
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Haha yeah my bad i still put the gothic at 12k range because it never orbits properly and always gets closer then i want. I finally got my emperor, gonna cherry it out then buy some more cruiser slots to mess around with. I was surprised that the emperor has macro turrets rather then lance turrets on top--that means you can just boost its macro turrets up to snuff since its got 10k sensor range though i might give it 12.5k sensor range. Until they start tweaking each and every ships stats IN doesn't really have that much of a selection because those split weapon setups are just horrible. Does SM have anything closer to a LC or will they start with a strike cruiser? I hope they just get nothing but strike cruisers and battle barges with escort options. LC stage is 1 strike cruiser with an escort. Cruiser stage is 1 strike cruiser with more escorts. BC stage is 2 strike cruisers with an escort or a battle barge with an escort. BB stage is a battle barge with either multiple escorts or a strike cruiser. Make SM the rambo faction, a jack of all trades that has the speed and fire power to make it work.
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Mar 26, 2016 12:31
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I'm torn between buying now for the warts-and-all beta experience and sitting on the fence to see if they shake out the balance issues into something long-lasting.
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Mar 26, 2016 12:37
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Where does this rate on the RTS difficulty chart? I've never been particularly good at RTS's, but I love anything Warham, and this game looks serious fun. Is this something that can be played by anybody, or is it more for the hardcore strat crowd?
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Mar 26, 2016 12:41
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Bloody Hedgehog posted:Where does this rate on the RTS difficulty chart? I've never been particularly good at RTS's, but I love anything Warham, and this game looks serious fun. Is this something that can be played by anybody, or is it more for the hardcore strat crowd? I'd say around Men of War or Total War level, so...not that difficult. You only have a handful of units to control at a time, there's no resource gathering mechanic. The game is still in the pre-order stage, so you can just refund it if it's not to your liking.
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Mar 26, 2016 12:46
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Korgan posted:No word that I've seen, but I think I saw it in my fleet background. It's big, it's made of rocks and scraps of other ships mashed together, I'm hoping we're getting it for multiplayer. Space hulks are pretty iconic and given how the devs have been so far I can't see them depriving multiplayer of their magnificence. Then they can add plague hulks!
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Mar 26, 2016 13:16
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Orks playing as the attacker on the convoy scenario are hilarious. Just send waves of Brute ram ships in the general direction of the transports and sit back as the boyz get to work.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:18
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Caved, bought the game, loving it. I haven't had a decent RTS multiplayer fix since Wargame:ALB and this is scratching the spot perfectly.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:19
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You know, since both IN and Orks can launch a lot of torpedoes, and they buffed bombers, and boarding torpedoes can really mess you up, I'm starting to consider just making the additional turrets upgrade a thing for most of my ships to thin out some of that ordinance flying around. I appreciate that they added visible contrails to interceptors, it makes it much easier to see that they do in fact fly out to engage ordinance, and that they get used up doing that.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:21
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I've been using my escorts a lot more as actual escorts now that I can actually consistently see incoming assault boats. A couple Swords with upgraded turrets next to the ship they're attacking really does a number on them. On paper the ideal place for escorts would often be in firing range of an enemy carrier, between it and its target.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:47
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Ere we go, ere we go, ere we go. Ere we go, ere we go, cross the Kosmos. Ere we go, ere we go, ere we go. Ere we go, ere we go, throo infinity. Ere we go, ere we go, ere we go. Ere we go, ere we go, cross the Kosmos. Ere we go, ere we go, ere we go. Don't know where we're goin' til we get there 
Kharnifex fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 14:49
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Best part is still the horn when you press the red button. Can't get more satisfying than that.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:56
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I've seen an unironic argument that the shock attack megakannon's ability to steal data at the range of a nova cannon, through shields, is necessary for data recovery's game balance.  The ability to hide a shock attack equipped ship in any nebula or asteroid field (once you stop, asteroids don't do damage) and then just chase around the enemy with the rest of the fleet until the warp timer is up, nab the data from your hiding spot and immediately punch warp has much fewer counters than the enemy ships going faster than yours.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:41
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Psykmoe posted:I've seen an unironic argument that the shock attack megakannon's ability to steal data at the range of a nova cannon, through shields, is necessary for data recovery's game balance. Pubbies will never not defend their stupid OP poo poo. Edit: Anyone having luck against Orks are Imperials? If So, how? Xae fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 16:10
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Xae posted:Pubbies will never not defend their stupid OP poo poo. I decided to re-roll my Dominator fleet as a Gothic fleet which I'm starting to feel was a very big mistake. Orks with Taunt spam are loving ridiculous to face and IMO Taunt needs a nerf (OTOH maybe I am just bad now that my nova spam gimmick got nerfed!) I suspect that a fleet of Mars and Dictators with plasma bomb spam would do very well against Orks because they seem to get cut to pieces by bombers from my Chaos fleet, especially if you can stay out of detection range and use camo. Not only that, but carrier fighters basically negate boarding torpedoes unless you're in very close range, which would mean that you're already in huge trouble anyways.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:50
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Xae posted:Pubbies will never not defend their stupid OP poo poo. I had an Imperial opponent actually beat me at my own game- he rammed me on my own broadside and kept knocking my ships around. Ork ships turn so sluggishly that knocking them out of position gives you a big advantage, and their armor's thin in the back.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:54
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Yeah bombers now do kind of okay damage, and fighters are really good to thin out those opening salvos of torpedoes. I'm not sure yet what to do as imperials vs orks. Doubling down on the 3k damage race with AP ammo just seems pretty stupid versus all this boarding, but on the other hand, if you micro enough, high energy turning and AAF could give you an advantage? I dunno. On the other hand my chaos fleet has 2 Slaughter class cruisers with Nurgle favor. They're blazing fast at 225 speed and Nurgle gives +20 troop value. With ratings leveled up a Nurgle ship ends up sitting at 89 troop value - even ork boarding spam isn't going to succeed that often against that, and those Nurgle clouds do stack, it seems. At least that buys you more time before your cruisers are all critted out, time for the lance boats and carriers to get work done. Hell, since chaos doesn't have a cruiser-weight lance boat (well the carrier cruiser has some broadside lances) and the Carnage/Murder only come with 9k macro broadsides too, I'll probably just Nurgle up all my cruisers to keep them between the enemy and my light and battlecruisers fighting from 12k+ 
Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 17:00
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The DethDeala Ork Battleship is really nice. You get more Kustomization points than any other ship, and even fully Kustomizing mine it just comes out to be a hair under 200 points. I gave it all mega kannons wherever possible. Is there a reason Ork bombers only do 5 damage each? This is 1/4 the damage of other bombers. I find that carrier bays are better used for fighter cover or assault boating than just damage.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:09
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In the tabletop, ork fighta-bommas did less damage than human bombers as well. They were kind of dual role. The ork bomma tooltip mentions it intercepts torpedos and ordinance, does that just happen on the side while it's on the way to the enemy ship? I mean ork ordinance bays do have dedicated defense fighters too, in Armada. I'm kind of tempted to try an ork battlekroozer with 1 kuztom point spent on an ordinance bay, and one spent on the frontal megakannon, then just fight prow-on with the megacannon and the two prow gun arrays while using the ordinance bay for fighter cover
Psykmoe fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 17:13
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The choices you have are interesting. You can upgrade 'lots o gunz' to 'megakanons' which I assume is a harder hitting, slower weapon. You can swap the torpedo launcher for a prow megakanon or a Zzap gun. The Zzap gun is funny. It has 12,000 range, good rate of fire, but it has a 5% chance to explode each time it shoots. I feel like there's no way this thing isn't going to explode on you and take the other prow weapon out with it. What's hilarious is that I think some ships can mount two (one prow, one dorsal?) which is just a mistake waiting to happen. Still, its the closet orks get to a lance weapon I guess.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:26
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Torp Chat: Torpedoes still seem to do really lovely damage with a very low crit chance. You put a barrage of 4 torps into the broadside of a ship and it barely makes an impact. Boarding Torpedoes on the other hand  . You lose an inconsequential amount of damage for what feels like 3-4 times the chance to crit.Panfilo posted:The choices you have are interesting. You can upgrade 'lots o gunz' to 'megakanons' which I assume is a harder hitting, slower weapon. You can swap the torpedo launcher for a prow megakanon or a Zzap gun. The Zzap gun is funny. It has 12,000 range, good rate of fire, but it has a 5% chance to explode each time it shoots. I feel like there's no way this thing isn't going to explode on you and take the other prow weapon out with it. What's hilarious is that I think some ships can mount two (one prow, one dorsal?) which is just a mistake waiting to happen. Still, its the closet orks get to a lance weapon I guess. I don't think the chance to self destruct works for weapons yet.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:27
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Xae posted:I don't think the chance to self destruct works for weapons yet. I've definitely had a nova cannon blow up on me. This was an imperial ship and before the latest patch so I think it's in.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:29
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Xae posted:Torp Chat: It definitely does for the Nova cannon favor the Orks get. When they say 25% chance to blow up they mean it, and when it blows, it also takes out your prow torpedo launcher with it. With that in mind, I'm a little  at the idea of a gun that shoots 12 times a minute and had a 5% chance to explode each time.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:32
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Balancing Orkz is going to be a weird thing in the long term. In the TT game they aren't balanced at all. They don't really play to win, they play for comedy value. Its like trying to balance Magic The Gathering around the Unglued gimmick set.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:35
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Panfilo posted:The choices you have are interesting. You can upgrade 'lots o gunz' to 'megakanons' which I assume is a harder hitting, slower weapon. You can swap the torpedo launcher for a prow megakanon or a Zzap gun. The Zzap gun is funny. It has 12,000 range, good rate of fire, but it has a 5% chance to explode each time it shoots. I feel like there's no way this thing isn't going to explode on you and take the other prow weapon out with it. What's hilarious is that I think some ships can mount two (one prow, one dorsal?) which is just a mistake waiting to happen. Still, its the closet orks get to a lance weapon I guess. Zapp guns replace the prow gunz, not the torpedoes, at least on kroozers/battlekroozers. But yes, technically you can spend all your kuztom points on a battlecruiser to replace both racks of prow gunz with the zapp guns. That seems volatile.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:37
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The_Angry_Turtle posted:Balancing Orkz is going to be a weird thing in the long term. In the TT game they aren't balanced at all. They don't really play to win, they play for comedy value. Its like trying to balance Magic The Gathering around the Unglued gimmick set. They're really strong right now. Probably too strong. I think some of that is driven by metagame with boarding, the Macro Cannon AP and Taunt being a bit too good. Kustomization is really cool and I wish they had done it for all races. Psykmoe posted:Zapp guns replace the prow gunz, not the torpedoes, at least on kroozers/battlekroozers. But yes, technically you can spend all your kuztom points on a battlecruiser to replace both racks of prow gunz with the zapp guns. That seems volatile. Put the Zapp gun and Mega Kannon on a ship and abuse the 75 forward armor. It is amazing.
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Mar 26, 2016 17:41
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Also because, as I just discovered though someone mentioned it earlier, the Shokk-Attack Mega Kannon is stupid as poo poo, given you start getting a horrific number of Data Recovery missions. Just ran into an Ork player who fielded 4 light cruisers, mostly fully upgraded(I'm Admiral level 3, he was probably like 7 or something) with I think 3 of them with Bad Moon favor. Lost the data about 2 seconds into the match, despite it being on a Nurgle ship. Hell, even without Data Recovery it's stupid as poo poo, because given it can cause assault actions, which can completely cripple a ship, through shields with pinpoint accuracy with the same range of a Nova Cannon.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:00
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Panfilo posted:I had an Imperial opponent actually beat me at my own game- he rammed me on my own broadside and kept knocking my ships around. Ork ships turn so sluggishly that knocking them out of position gives you a big advantage, and their armor's thin in the back.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:03
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I'm thinking they need to make more game modes that don't inspire universal loathing. Also to delete the ones that do. Since that is most of them they have a lot of work to do this month!
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Mar 26, 2016 18:08
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Well, in tabletop the Eldar cannot use All Ahead Full, Come to New Heading (High Energy Turn), or Burn Retros*, so if they're styled like that in Armada they could be interesting. They also have 3 set movements speeds that they fallow based on their orientation to the "sunward" edge of the table. They're actually somewhat slow when sailing "against" the solar wind. Hilariously fast running with the wind though. I watched some beta footage again and Eldar didn't have any maneuver buttons at all. That said, ork footage had them with the standard all-full-ahead button and not the big red button they have now. So Eldar could still change. But probably won't have any. Bloody Hedgehog posted:Where does this rate on the RTS difficulty chart? I've never been particularly good at RTS's, but I love anything Warham, and this game looks serious fun. Is this something that can be played by anybody, or is it more for the hardcore strat crowd? You can always just stomp computers on easy and have a great 40k experience if you want. I'm terrible at RTS and I am finding that I can stand against even Hard computers. It might actually be my favorite RTS. Its got such a great focus, rather than having to worry about splitting your attention between base building and expansion and attacking, you can't produce units. You can't build a base. And you only have 4-8 units total, so there's no massive armies to manage. Instead you have very specific control over each of your ships, the UI is really fantastic for controlling them and using the maneuvers and abilities. Its a super micro heavy game but you can always slow time down and its just really well focused and very intense. Also upgrading and managing your fleet and ships gives it an RPG aspect which really drives you to keep coming back. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 18:10
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Yeah ever since World in Conflict (well really Ground Control, but that didn't have good MP) I've been a massive fan of the focused small scale tactical RTS.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:22
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Can confirm ork ships get stuck in permanent all ahead full when engines are destroyed mid boost. Had 2 ork cruisers flying wildly around the map which was handy because I was chasing down a chaos data defender. Its loving awesome.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:31
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I can't wait for the LOGH mod.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:49
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warcake posted:Can confirm ork ships get stuck in permanent all ahead full when engines are destroyed mid boost. Had 2 ork cruisers flying wildly around the map which was handy because I was chasing down a chaos data defender. Its loving awesome. Ork features , not bugs 
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Mar 26, 2016 18:55
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warcake posted:Can confirm ork ships get stuck in permanent all ahead full when engines are destroyed mid boost. Every screens gone red, dat means I'm super fast!
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Mar 26, 2016 18:55
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Elukka posted:That raises a question. How exactly do ramming damage bonuses get applied? Is it all collisions, collisions with the prow, collisions where you are moving fast? This is a good question and I'm honestly not sure. The best situation for orks is to hit their ship in such a way that it continuously pushes them while staying forward; the prow guns keep shooting and it seems like repeated bumps into the other ship end up doing enormous damage to it.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:07
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Just won a breakthrough game as ork defender vs chaos because the hadn't played that game mode before and warped out instead of going to the exfil zone. Feel kinda bad for him 'cause I got outplayed badly. Only got micro warp jump on my light cruisers and he was smart enough to keep his distance so I could barely touch him. Gotta take taunt as the next skill and/or rethink my 'no torps' strategy.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:31
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Are imperial ships worth it to fit them as ranged fighters? Like take the upgrades to remove the 6k range penalties and then orbit with like a gothic? Orkz boarding is too strong to brawl at close range anymore.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:39
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Phi230 posted:Are imperial ships worth it to fit them as ranged fighters? If you just want to shoot at 9k, you're not going to be very accurate at all without the accuracy upgrade on top of that, by which point fleets at similar levels are probably going to be faster than you, at which point it doesn't make all that much sense.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:47
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I'm getting kind of annoyed at the way imperial ships handle. I mostly want them to stay glued to the broadside of the target but they're always veering off in seemingly random directions. Unless I'm constantly micromanaging my cruisers they make stupid moves like sharply turning away and flying away perpendicular to the ship I want them to hit. I can't even figure out why they're doing it. Swinging around and pointing your rear directly into the broadside of another ship seems... dumb.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:58
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