|
In shocking news accounts and websites linked to actual ISIS fighters and explicit supporters active on social media cheered on an attack they ideologically agree with Is the shock that ISIS uses Twitter a lot to spread propaganda because I thought everyone knew this edit: Also, Pamela Geller - really?
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 23:52 |
|
|
I mean if your argument is that those statements where made by "ordinary" Muslims the fact that many of the examples cited are coming from actual ISIS volunteers and accounts used to spread ISIS propaganda isn't exactly proving the point
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:I mean if your argument is that those statements where made by "ordinary" Muslims the fact that many of the examples cited are coming from actual ISIS volunteers and accounts used to spread ISIS propaganda isn't exactly proving the point What about this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11433776/Quarter-of-British-Muslims-sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 00:28
|
|
steinrokkan posted:What the gently caress are you talking about, you deranged psychopath What everyone arguing against Majorian has implicitly declared- Muslims commit terrorism not because of anything to do with Europe, but because of things that do with them. Also that Australo-German freak who was amazed that there were people who didn't think Muslims were looking for a handout, and who everyone gave tacit assent tom
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 00:29
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:What about this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11433776/Quarter-of-British-Muslims-sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html 10% is a worryingly high figure, I'm not really disputing the evidence of the existence of a radical minority (of course there will always be a gulf between thought and action, 95% respondents to that poll said they would report someone to the police if they where planning an act of violence). The twitter screenshots in that link that were meant to prove that "ordinary" Muslims where celebrating in the streets were just obviously associated with propaganda accounts and demonstrated an inability to separate active mouthpieces for an organization from normal people
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
why didnt obama come back from golf world? was he there to meet ben ghazi???
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 01:31
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:But if it is indeed the case that Muslims are as you have outlined them, wouldn't hatred be completely reasonable? It seems like you don't want to be seen as hating Muslims, yet argue that they are inherently prone to violence and sloth because of culture/religion. There's a real inconsistency where you want to have liberal values but don't want to apply them universally. I, uh, am not entirely sure you've been following steinrokkan's arguments in this thread. Maybe you have confused him with Liberal Leet? Or a few of the poo poo-and-run YCS/GBS migrant workers? Edit: To clarify, I would frankly file steinrokkan (and myself) with the Majorian Bloc - people poking at the question of reasonable policy solutions, cooperative with the European Muslim community, of how to minimize radicalization (or, worst case, respond adequately to radicalized elements) while ensuring a minimum of horridness for everyone involved, including the excluded, disillusioned young folks who tend to be the Daesh-etc recruitment base. To my mind, there's a substantial difference between "European Muslims are a ripe recruiting ground for terrible people, in part because of [lovely treatment], let's work on how to fix that" and "Muslims are inherently prone to violence and sloth because of culture/religion". Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
While I kind of agree with Marjorians theme of "If muslims were more accepted, they wouldn't be radicalised so easily therefore the west should accept muslims.. more" I think its incredibly naive and not really possible. It's akin to the "If we all just lived in harmony, there would be no war" but we can't live in harmony. Groups will be ostracised. People will feel bad. If a certain group of people blow themselves up as a result of that, the general populace is going to associate that group of people with with anything that looks similar. This is called associative learning. You can't force people to be nice and accepting to one another. Its not possible. You can't stop people associating normal peace loving muslims with psychotic muslim terrorists. It's literally a subconscious brain function. What could be done is if enough peace loving muslims could decry the actions of the terrorists, it could weaken that perceived link between islam and terrorism. I'm sure they already do decry those actions but they need to be louder. Louder than the terrorists. Baxta fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 06:06
|
|
|
double nine posted:Here's a must-read on the origins of these jihadis: http://europe.newsweek.com/belgium-new-extremists-jihadi-cool-brussels-attacks-439640?rm=eu I believe the traditional term for this is "anarchists." We didn't loving eliminate anarchists as an ideology by ~playing nice~ and asking why they felt marginalized; we defeated anarchists by deporting folk like Emma Goldman under the 1918 Radical Alien act. Perhaps it is time Europe learn from America's successes in the 20th century and deport radical aliens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:10
|
|
|
migf why do you hate feminism
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:25
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:migf why do you hate feminism Is it not clear on where I stand? I dislike anarchists, and strongly dislike radical aliens, no matter their religion nor color of their skin. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:29
|
|
|
migf: big fan of arresting women for telling people to vote and use condoms
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:37
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:migf: big fan of arresting women for telling people to vote and use condoms Enforcement is not my department. I am concerned with policy, and frankly, deporting anarchists is good policy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:40
|
|
|
migf: big fan of arguing dishonestly and moving goalposts
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 07:47
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:migf: big fan of arresting women for telling people to vote and use condoms  mods please note c.i.t.b's support for anarchism, and by extension the anarchist assassination of President McKinley. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 08:04
|
|
|
the insect court: unable to tell the difference between emma goldman and leon czolgosz
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 08:16
|
|
|
If you can confound the entire might of the Secret Service using nothing more than a handkerchief then you deserve to shoot the president imo. Nobody's tried that method since, either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 09:17
|
|
|
Baxta posted:What could be done is if enough peace loving muslims could decry the actions of the terrorists, it could weaken that perceived link between islam and terrorism. I'm sure they already do decry those actions but they need to be louder. Louder than the terrorists. Yeah they can do this as much as they want and the people who think it's the Muslims fault still won't care because actual facts, statements and data has no effect on their thinking. The people who don't think it (the vast majority) already don't think that. Also they have no loving obligation because they share zero guilt on it yet they've decried it every time this happens. What could actually be done is us not financing terrorism and for the European security services to get their poo poo together. The problem isn't Islam or Muslims, the problem won't thus be solved by anything related to Islam. The problem is that one crazy subset of Islam is given billions of dollars by the West (and others) and the fact that even when the family of a potential terrorist warns police about them (in almost all of these cases) they don't loving do anything, nor when they come back, nor when they are being warned about it by other countries, etc. Those are the priorities here. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:17
|
|
|
Baxta posted:What could be done is if enough peace loving muslims could decry the actions of the terrorists, it could weaken that perceived link between islam and terrorism. I'm sure they already do decry those actions but they need to be louder. Louder than the terrorists. That does nothing but parade the Muslim population before the tribune of the majority, reinforcing the divisions between the two. The best moderate Muslims can do is continue acting the same way as any Belgian would in a time of national crisis, and not allow the terrorists to bully them into tacitly admitting to somehow (albeit begrudgingly) being culturally related to the ISIS. Basically what you are asking them to do is say publicaly and loudly "We Muslims collectively, as one soul, feel kinship with the people making up the ISIS, even though we don't condone their methods." That's a recipe for political suicide. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:26
|
|
|
A security guard at a nuclear power plant has been found murdered with his pass stolen. http://www.independent.ie/world-new...n-34574232.html
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:44
|
|
|
Jippa posted:A security guard at a nuclear power plant has been found murdered with his pass stolen. That's pretty loving bizarre right there. Has anyone ever done anything similar before? EDIT: And I really hope Belgian nuclear plants don't have lax enough security that you can just walk in with someone else's pass...  This was also something that people were warning about : http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/26/world/europe/belgium-fears-nuclear-plants-are-vulnerable.html?_r=0 DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:52
|
|
|
DarkCrawler posted:That's pretty loving bizarre right there. Has anyone ever done anything similar before? Modern nuclear plants are incredibly hard to do something to without intimate knowledge of the plant itself and the physics involved. You can drive a supersonic fighter jet into a nuclear station and nothing much but a stain is left on the reactor wall. Nuclear stations security itself is secure as hell.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:56
|
|
Jippa posted:A security guard at a nuclear power plant has been found murdered with his pass stolen. https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/713685446874759168
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:57
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:Modern nuclear plants are incredibly hard to do something to without intimate knowledge of the plant itself and the physics involved. Yeah, I get the scientific failsafes behind it but I was talking about the physical security - this guy wouldn't get past the first gate with someone else's pass I hope. EDIT: Looks like that was a premature worry then
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:57
|
|
|
Considering the Belgian authorities' performance so far, I take this to mean there's a 50/50 shot that terrorists have already taken over a nuclear facility.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 12:59
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:Considering the Belgian authorities' performance so far, I take this to mean there's a 50/50 shot that terrorists have already taken over a nuclear facility. That's still being kind. Considering the Belgian authorities performance forever, I wouldn't bet against the possibility the terrorists built the nuclear facility in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 13:16
|
|
|
Boogaleeboo posted:That's still being kind. Considering the Belgian authorities performance forever, I wouldn't bet against the possibility the terrorists built the nuclear facility in the first place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9u-MaNNDnU
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 13:23
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:Modern nuclear plants are incredibly hard to do something to without intimate knowledge of the plant itself and the physics involved. You can drive a supersonic fighter jet into a nuclear station and nothing much but a stain is left on the reactor wall. Yeah, in theory. In practice, though, it's a crock of poo poo. Nuclear plants are expensive, and spending money Is The Antichrist, so in order to Be Competitive, corners are cut aggressively. Low-level maintenance (like, janitorial stuff) is externalized to the cheapest subcontractors available, which thanks to the EU and Bolkestein are quite often from Eastern or South-Eastern Europe and don't even understand the local language. High-level maintenance for the nuclear reactor itself is done well because it's heavily regulated, but for other stuff (including stuff like backup generators)? Sorry but these things don't explode if they fail, so you can scrimp on them, and if you can scrimp on something you have the moral obligation to do so, any sort of spending that you are not gun-to-the-head absolutely forced to do is a betrayal of the shareholders. So it turns out that the stuff that is only needed in case of emergency is just not maintained at all. I doubt he'd take his security pass with him to walk the dog. He wasn't murdered on his way to work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 13:26
|
|
|
That is a relief then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 13:35
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:That does nothing but parade the Muslim population before the tribune of the majority, reinforcing the divisions between the two. I said they should say the exact opposite.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 13:49
|
|
|
It only makes sense to decry terrorists separately from the general populace if you admit commonality with them. If the terrorist groups are as foreign to you as they are to the ethnoc Belgians, why should you need to spend some extra effort decrying them just to prove your loyalty doesn't lie with them.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Mar 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 13:54
|
|
|
CNN - Latest Terror Suspect In Paris Attacks Was A Syrian Refugee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zfWJkz8FY I was tepidly supporting taking in Syrian refugees before all this, but I'm starting to seriously rethink that view. Maybe Trump knew/realized something we didn't? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) ----------------
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
Narciss posted:CNN - Latest Terror Suspect In Paris Attacks Was A Syrian Refugee You could round up and deport all the Syrian refugees tomorrow it won't change a thing, there are enough homegrown crazies in Europe more than happy to blow themselves up for Allah. The only thing Trump realized is how to reach working class whites by appealing to their latent racism.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:13
|
|
|
Narciss posted:
I posted this the other day, but he pretty much called it in January. Right down to who would be hit. Video starts at the relevant bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9xTduAik-Y&t=41s (note: i am neither a republican nor a trump supporter, dont direct your trump anger at me)
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:26
|
|
|
lynch_69 posted:there are enough homegrown crazies in Europe more than happy to blow themselves up for Allah. The only thing Trump realized is how to reach working class whites by appealing to their latent racism. Why would homegrown crazies want to blow themselves up for Allah? Are you saying there's something up with the religion of Islam itself? 
----------------
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:34
|
|
|
Narciss posted:Why would homegrown crazies want to blow themselves up for Allah? Are you saying there's something up with the religion of Islam itself? Native people born and raised in Belgium or France and went to Syria and returned. Yes from the terrorists point of view they are sacrificing themselves for the Caliphate and Allah. Nothing to do with the religion of Islam outside of the terrorist's own poisoned interpretation of it. There's a pervasive ugly habit of making all Muslims everywhere responsible for whatever a bunch of crazies in Syria do, but that's nothing new.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
Yikes, I just saw this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks Scroll down while looking at the "political ideology" column. ----------------
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 19:01
|
|
Narciss posted:Yikes, I just saw this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks That list is very incomplete, e.g. it's missing all the communist/socialists murders by the RAF.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 19:37
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:It only makes sense to decry terrorists separately from the general populace if you admit commonality with them. If the terrorist groups are as foreign to you as they are to the ethnoc Belgians, why should you need to spend some extra effort decrying them just to prove your loyalty doesn't lie with them. Because the terrorists are saying that they are doing this for Islam and you can't stop them saying that. So unfortunately when they take credit for terrorist acts in the name of Islam, it reflects badly on normal muslims. Also as many have said in this thread, funding these assholes is not a good idea. I was just trying to give a practical solution rather than just state all the miserable stuff thats going on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 22:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 23:52 |
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:Modern nuclear plants are incredibly hard to do something to without intimate knowledge of the plant itself and the physics involved. You can drive a supersonic fighter jet into a nuclear station and nothing much but a stain is left on the reactor wall. Counterpoint: This is Belgium, the nation which will not seize Europe's most wanted terrorist plotting a mass casualty attack because it's after 5pm.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2016 23:13
|
|