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Oh man the new pipe laying mechanics, that looks amazing. I love how much the devs focus on the little usability stuff. Saving a click here or a click there doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you do it hundreds of times you're glad to save that click. Modules in blueprints will make some of my designs much easier.
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Mar 25, 2016 19:05
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| # ? May 11, 2024 12:27 |
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I'm excited for the UI redesign. The current one is ~fine~ but a good UI would make this game a little more marketable (eventhough they have 250k+ copies sold but still).
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Mar 25, 2016 19:11
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Well, that clinches it. Gonna abandon my current map and spend my factorio time until 0.13 theorycrafting and preparing blueprints.
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Mar 25, 2016 19:16
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Moddington posted:Well, that clinches it. Gonna abandon my current map and spend my factorio time until 0.13 theorycrafting and preparing blueprints. Speaking of which, found some interesting bus/transport ideas in Youtube random mix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTMjxUINNqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE_YH_OLbh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEvVFkzTtWY
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Mar 25, 2016 19:43
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Moddington posted:Well, that clinches it. Gonna abandon my current map and spend my factorio time until 0.13 theorycrafting and preparing blueprints. 2 months minimum wait time? You should have some pile of info ready by the time it hits. There sure are a lot of things to like in 0.13 though. The Insect Court posted:Any good modpacks that aren't just for the Factorio player who is deep into the autism spectrum? I've "beaten" Factorio vanilla once by getting to the rocket so something that changes things around some would be nice as long as it doesn't seem like something built by/for the type of person who stores all their toenail clippings. Okay but as someone said, you might be playing the wrong game for that. So saying, I recently put 3 mod packs together for various MP or scenarios. One is no extra parts but a load of QoL/comfort mods. Second has RSO plus science cost tweaker to make the gameplay longer and use trains. The third is RSO, Bobs, science tweaker, 5dim bits. The 2nd and 3rd ones also contain all the QoL mods and a few items like lamposts etc. You want to try any of those?
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Mar 25, 2016 19:57
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Slickdrac posted:Speaking of which, found some interesting bus/transport ideas in Youtube random mix I like the braids from the 3rd video, seems an interesting way to compact a production line and avoid using slower long inserters. The chains are perhaps not as effective but still a really cool idea
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Mar 25, 2016 20:17
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God drat this game becomes more complex by a factor of ten once you get into all the poo poo you can (and need) to do with oil. I had a pretty drat good setup with a big iron bus and a smaller copper bus producing everything I need to be knee-deep in red and green science packets (as well as automatically produced inserters and so on) but now I need to lay pipe, figure out how to make plastic (so far I've got batteries taking at least two different chemical plants to make). But I *need* that plastic and poo poo now because unless I make some logistics robots soon keeping track of all this poo poo is going to be impossible. At least the aliens have mostly left me alone this run. EDIT: Oh poo poo that's right, I can make productivity modules now. I can make my stuff make more stuff with less raw materials now, that'll free up more iron plates for my steel smelters and everything further down the bus line. Speedball fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 20:19
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Ratzap posted:Same thing, rebuild in a new spot bootstrapping from the ashes of the old. If you want a bus, go with 2 iron and 2 copper lanes minimum, keep them 3 or 4 spaces apart, a steel lane plus green circuits too (add gear wheels as well if you feel so inclined to build all the things). Just for info (if you don't know yet), for steel you want 1 for 1 furnaces of the same crafting speed and personally I use a dedicated iron smelter set to feed it. Too easy to cripple your iron output if you turn half of it into steel. Is there any chance you can screenshot what you're describing, or provide a link? Gibbo posted:We'll call it the Node.  You're right.
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Mar 25, 2016 20:29
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Speedball posted:God drat this game becomes more complex by a factor of ten once you get into all the poo poo you can (and need) to do with oil. I had a pretty drat good setup with a big iron bus and a smaller copper bus producing everything I need to be knee-deep in red and green science packets (as well as automatically produced inserters and so on) but now I need to lay pipe, figure out how to make plastic (so far I've got batteries taking at least two different chemical plants to make). Use speed modules, just increase your iron throughput.
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Mar 25, 2016 20:31
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Node posted:Is there any chance you can screenshot what you're describing, or provide a link? Yup, this is my factory from shadowing Negative Roots playthrough found here. You can see the furnaces at the bottom, then the bus coming up from it - copper and iron to start with, then green circuits adds in, then steel, then gear wheels and finally red circuits. I can post a better zoomed in shot if you like. Also note this example is still a little cramped, I would have left a bit more room but I wanted to follow the tutorial and see how he built it.  Edit: forgot the link to video Ratzap fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 25, 2016 |
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Mar 25, 2016 20:44
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Ratzap posted:Yup, this is my factory from shadowing Negative Roots playthrough found here. You can see the furnaces at the bottom, then the bus coming up from it - copper and iron to start with, then green circuits adds in, then steel, then gear wheels and finally red circuits. I can post a better zoomed in shot if you like. Also note this example is still a little cramped, I would have left a bit more room but I wanted to follow the tutorial and see how he built it. Wow. Thank you.
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Mar 25, 2016 21:07
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Speedball posted:God drat this game becomes more complex by a factor of ten once you get into all the poo poo you can (and need) to do with oil. I had a pretty drat good setup with a big iron bus and a smaller copper bus producing everything I need to be knee-deep in red and green science packets (as well as automatically produced inserters and so on) but now I need to lay pipe, figure out how to make plastic (so far I've got batteries taking at least two different chemical plants to make). If you already have some oil refineries running, plastic is relatively simple. All you need is a good spot with some coal nearby. Get one or two miners on the coal, set up a chemical plant or two, then bring the coal and your petroleum gas to the plant(s). Yes, batteries take 3 chemical plants: One for the batteries themselves, one for sulfuric acid and one for sulfur. Fortunately, there are some dependency overlaps: sulfur and sulfuric acid both need water, and batteries and sulfuric acid both need iron plates. Even better, accumulators -- which are your primary consumer of batteries after blue science, if you plan to use solar panels at all -- also require iron plates, so one well-supplied iron belt can hit three dependencies at once. Also, you can easily feed 4 battery plants with 1 sulfur and sulfuric acid plant, and I highly recommend doing so. You'll get 1 battery per second, which is a fantastic rate and it will only consume a paltry amount of iron and copper plates.
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Mar 25, 2016 21:32
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My factory is such a kludgy mess that I'm not even sure logistic systems will save it. It is glorious.
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Mar 25, 2016 23:33
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This just popped up on the Factorio blueprints site, amazing if it works. Tetris in Factorio http://factorioblueprints.com/view/abdtJi9NCcQAYyyw7 And we were just lamenting a page ago that hardly anyone uses circuits etc
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Mar 26, 2016 00:32
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How do I mass designate a smart chest / cargo wagon to only allow certain goods? Surely middle clicking and setting each and every box isn't the only way to do it? Is there any way I can set one cargo slot and then drag it across to paste it onto others? Reason I ask is because I've got a coal and copper mine right beside each other, and I figure I can use one train with 3 wagons to take in both copper and coal. Copper gets dropped off on the way at my brand new electric furnace facility, and then it can carry on and drop the coal off to my central smelters in my original base.
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Mar 26, 2016 01:54
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I'm not sure I see why you need to filter the cargo wagons in that case. I would think that using smart inserters to ensure only certain goods are loaded into each wagon would take care of it. Or I'm completely off the mark with what you're trying to do here.
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Mar 26, 2016 02:00
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Solumin posted:I'm not sure I see why you need to filter the cargo wagons in that case. I would think that using smart inserters to ensure only certain goods are loaded into each wagon would take care of it. My assumption is that he wants to load a both copper and coal. Trying to load both at the same time could easily create a situation where the cargo gets full of one good or the other when something backs up or goes wrong. I'd just use two trains, personally. Trains and rail are cheap - no reason to skimp on them.
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Mar 26, 2016 02:03
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Solumin posted:I'm not sure I see why you need to filter the cargo wagons in that case. I would think that using smart inserters to ensure only certain goods are loaded into each wagon would take care of it. Basically I'd want my 3 cargo train to take 2,250 each of copper and coal only. Since the train will be delivering to two separate places where demand can change, I know I'd slowly end up having the train fill up with coal since it's used less often than copper ore. So I wanted to set limits on how much the train can take in to prevent it from just becoming backlogged with tonnes of coal. Dirk the Average posted:My assumption is that he wants to load a both copper and coal. Trying to load both at the same time could easily create a situation where the cargo gets full of one good or the other when something backs up or goes wrong. Yeah I guess this is the easiest solution. Would be nice to have one train doing the job of two, just to tick off my efficiency list.
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Mar 26, 2016 02:04
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-sorry doublepost-
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Mar 26, 2016 02:05
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Loopoo posted:Basically I'd want my 3 cargo train to take 2,250 each of copper and coal only. Since the train will be delivering to two separate places where demand can change, I know I'd slowly end up having the train fill up with coal since it's used less often than copper ore. Oh, I see. (I don't think of these things and occasionally it bites me in the rear end.) You could check in the settings menu, but the only thing I can think of is to try to copy the filter of one cell using the shift + right click thing. I really don't know if that would work... Edit: Indeed you cannot. Looks like you're stuck doing it manually. At least you should be able to copy the filters once you finish it on one cargo wagon, right? Solumin fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 02:05
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Loopoo posted:How do I mass designate a smart chest / cargo wagon to only allow certain goods? Surely middle clicking and setting each and every box isn't the only way to do it? Is there any way I can set one cargo slot and then drag it across to paste it onto others? Best/full transport tycoon practice is make a signalled train network and run a dedicated train to each resource. Wagons should count in the logistic network? Maybe finagle a logistics network for each stop, and set smart inserters to pull below a ceiling to prevent filling a wagon. e. wait logistics wouldn't work unless you range the load chests out of the logistics network which would be an awful pain. zedprime fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 02:06
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There's a mod that will let you use logistic wizardry on the trains somehow but I haven't tried it
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Mar 26, 2016 02:12
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I mean I could use two separate trains but something niggles me about doing that when one would do the trick. I think I'll just set it up so two wagons are beside chests that are supplied with coal, and one is beside chests that are supplied with copper. Easiest way. Then it can drop off copper on the way to the central station, and then offload it's coal at the central station (which has smart inserts so they won't remove any copper if there's some left).
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Mar 26, 2016 02:25
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For those of you with a bus going on, how do you pull from 3+ belts of one material while keeping it balanced?
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Mar 26, 2016 03:11
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Something crazy with splitters probably that I have no chance at understanding.
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Mar 26, 2016 03:14
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CanOfMDAmp posted:For those of you with a bus going on, how do you pull from 3+ belts of one material while keeping it balanced? This is actually the simpler of the splitter problems: one splitter for each belt, send one from each to continue along the bus, and one from each to the output. Use splitters or side-loading to combine them back down to as few as you want. It gets real ugly when you have more than 4 belts, so if you do, bundle them into 4's and do each one separately.
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Mar 26, 2016 03:26
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CanOfMDAmp posted:For those of you with a bus going on, how do you pull from 3+ belts of one material while keeping it balanced? If you've got enough smelters to keep everything backed up, that should keep belts fully compressed. Barring that, I suppose when you split things off, you could put a chest down that fills up when everything's backed up, but starts unloading when the belt becomes unbalanced? Easy to do with a chest on the corner: one inserter feeding into it, and another taking out and putting in front. If the belt is backed up, it doesn't have room to place the item down, so the chest fills up. If there's space, it'll offload the chest. You can have 1 normal inserter feeding in and 1 fast feeding out. I just overdo my smelting areas though and that keeps my belts fully loaded.
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Mar 26, 2016 03:26
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Solumin posted:Oh, I see. (I don't think of these things and occasionally it bites me in the rear end.) The easiest way to filter a bunch of slots to the same thing is to take a stack of the item, place one of them in every slot, and then go through again middle-clicking all of them. Two clicks per cell, much easier than using the menu for every single one. Moddington posted:This is actually the simpler of the splitter problems: one splitter for each belt, send one from each to continue along the bus, and one from each to the output. Use splitters or side-loading to combine them back down to as few as you want. When you're low on material, this pulls literally half of your throughput off to one destination, which is going to severely starve everything further down. What you typically want to do is use a single splitter on one lane (pulling off 1/8th of your throughput), then using a bunch more splitters to even things out between the lane you took stuff off and the rest of them. You don't even need to rebalance them all immediately - just balance two lanes immediately, then rebalance three of them after passing a few stations, and then start mixing in the fourth lane about halfway down the bus. This effectively gives you a "bypass" which helps avoid the early stations monopolizing your whole production.
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Mar 26, 2016 03:33
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CanOfMDAmp posted:For those of you with a bus going on, how do you pull from 3+ belts of one material while keeping it balanced? If you really want to you can add a perfect N-to-N balancer downstream on the bus from the splitoff point. For reference, the perfect 3-to-N balancers are:  And the perfect 4-to-N balancers are:  In practice, you shove a few splitters in every here and there after splitting things off to keep things flowing and call it a day. Perfectly balancing the bus after pulling resources is not important or necessary; the bus cannot maintain full throughput after resources are removed anyhow. You might want to favor parts of the factory that come later down the bus, but doing count-perfect balancing after each split will always favor an earlier split-off over a later one. Really, as long as the slack is spread out sufficiently that all the source furnaces/assemblers for that resource are working and none of the sinks are starved, who cares?
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Mar 26, 2016 03:40
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Instead of pulling some from 3 belts why not just pull one full belt and half of a second
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Mar 26, 2016 04:41
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CanOfMDAmp posted:For those of you with a bus going on, how do you pull from 3+ belts of one material while keeping it balanced? Here's a practical example of a balanced 4-lane bus:  I originally uploaded this to show off the factories, so I only have the iron bus showing. From left to right:
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Mar 26, 2016 06:31
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Loopoo posted:Basically I'd want my 3 cargo train to take 2,250 each of copper and coal only. Since the train will be delivering to two separate places where demand can change, I know I'd slowly end up having the train fill up with coal since it's used less often than copper ore. You have an XY problem here. Filter at resource production, don't ever mix (or limit) chests or cars.
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Mar 26, 2016 07:53
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Kenlon posted:You have an XY problem here. Filter at resource production, don't ever mix (or limit) chests or cars. What's wrong with limiting chests? It's great for red / purple circuits. There's no need to have 10k red circuits and 8k purple. 2k red and 600 purple is fine. I ended up devoting 2 wagons to coal and 1 to copper. Works a treat. The only trouble-spot is when the train pulls into my central coal station that fuels all my smelters. It would have taken copper out and put it into circulation, so I just made the inserts smart and set the filter to coal. I have a really basic main station, with explicit offloading stations depending on what the resource is. There's one for stone, coal, copper and iron. I want to eventually have a smart system that allows any train to pull in and offload, and then smart inserters can organize the items to the corresponding storage chest, but I haven't figured out how I can tackle that yet. Edit: New metal and copper plate foundry is up and running. I'm slowly going to expand it until it's churning out metric tonnes of the stuff. The plates then get shipped to a (yet to be constructed) circuit facility, where it'll produce ungodly amounts of green and red circuits, which are then shipped by train to my main base where they'll be assimilated into the logistics system and help keep my circuit-thirsty assembly lines going. It's all the drat modules I make (speed, efficiency and productivity, 50 each of level 1, 2 and 3) that suck up all the circuits. Nothing else really puts a dent in production otherwise: all my research is done. Have some pics! Overall View of Entire Base  Closeup Shot  Railways are so fun. I eventually plan on having one big connected loop that wraps around the lake. As I expand outwards with metal outposts, I'll eventually be forced to circuit the entire network so trains can make quicker journeys back home. I usually aim for bigger deposits of iron and copper, since they last longer and outposts are a pain to construct. I don't like leaving the smaller deposits untouched, so I'll probably get around to using those up too. Qubee fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 08:44
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Balancing bus trunks seems like handicapping . I suppose the point of a saturated bus system is to avoid accounting like this, but why not a tree system? You have saturated bus lanes A, B, and C. You split A into A-local and A-continuing, both perfect halves of your total lane. You use A-local for your 6/13/20 item/s sinks in the area, maybe splitting them in half once or twice or more to ration to the local production lines as appropriate. Now you have saturated lanes B and C next to half full A-continuing. You split B into B-local and B-continuing, same as above. But now you merge A-continuing and B-continuing into the now saturated AB and continue on with saturated lanes AB, and C. Not as immediately infinitely stampable. But pulling from saturated belts gives you very predictable item delivery rates. So it can keep you honest about what your bus capacity really is instead of getting a few drops in and start pulling from a flaccid tailing end of a bus because your first few drops really needed all that could be supplied from a single splitter.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:12
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They'd be better off balancing bus's the way that a couple of mods handle it: adding more resources and making more resource interactions so that buses become impractically large or force people to make intermediates close to where they are being used. Currently bus's are really only viable on the scale they are because everything ultimately comes from copper and iron, with very few intermediates that aren't based on those two.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:24
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Yeah, but the early game needs to be viable with as few resource types as possible, so you don't have to keep spamming restart until you get a spawn with everything nearby. Oil is a good example of how it should work: you don't need it at first, and by the time you do need it you can afford to move it.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:57
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zedprime posted:Balancing bus trunks seems like handicapping . I suppose the point of a saturated bus system is to avoid accounting like this, but why not a tree system? What do you mean by "handicapping"? Besides the space it takes up, a large bus (3 or 4 belts) doesn't prevent you from doing anything at all. The point is to use the 2 outside belts for supplying factories along the way and the 2 inside belts to replenish the outside belts. Dropping the occasional balancer ensures the two outside belts will be saturated. (Especially if you used a perfect balancer.) Sure, the tree could work. Is this a design you've used before? I might be misunderstanding it, but it sounds like "flaccid tailing end of a bus" is guaranteed with a tree. You start with 3 belts, but every 2 splits you reduce the number of belts. Eventually you just aren't going to have bandwidth at the end, right? Compare that with a bus, where you maintain 4 balanced belts the entire way down. Drone_Fragger posted:They'd be better off balancing buses the way that a couple of mods handle it: adding more resources and making more resource interactions so that buses become impractically large or force people to make intermediates close to where they are being used. Currently bus's are really only viable on the scale they are because everything ultimately comes from copper and iron, with very few intermediates that aren't based on those two. I think you're saying balance the bus in terms of gameplay, but I was talking about balancing buses as in making sure each belt on the bus has the same amount of resources. That said, I usually go for local intermediates, and only have copper, iron, green circuits and steel on the bus. Maybe throw plastic and a petroleum gas pipeline on there, though I've never done that myself. Plastic is the other major component that isn't based on iron and copper, I think, at least in the late game.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:54
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You will never have 4 saturated belts if you're taking material off though, so why run 4 belts that are half full when 2 full belts is equivalent?
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Mar 26, 2016 16:02
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Indecisive posted:You will never have 4 saturated belts if you're taking material off though, so why run 4 belts that are half full when 2 full belts is equivalent? Because you're not always running all parts of your factory at once. If an early part of your factory shuts down, it's useful to have the rest of the plate move on to the rest of the factory.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:16
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| # ? May 11, 2024 12:27 |
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Indecisive posted:You will never have 4 saturated belts if you're taking material off though, so why run 4 belts that are half full when 2 full belts is equivalent?  Saturation is possible if you production exceeds consumption. Plus you don't run 4 half-full belts, because the two inside belts can replenish the two outside belts.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:22
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