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Would this be the place to ask about Princess: The Hopeful and whether or not it's a good system to play in for NWoD?
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Mar 26, 2016 07:46
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Nomadic Scholar posted:Would this be the place to ask about Princess: The Hopeful and whether or not it's a good system to play in for NWoD? Yes, and dear god no, in that order. I mean like, if that's your tastes, I suppose power to you, but I remember from the last time I looked at it it was about as shabbily designed as most fansplats are, and a lot of the fluff wasn't exactly a good fit, to put it lightly. If you wanna try it out with friends or something though, go nuts. There's far worse fansplats you could be playing.
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Mar 26, 2016 08:48
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Well that saves me a 300 page read. I've had very little exposure to wod aside from having a crash course of creating a sin Eater from scratch in like 2 days with no prior game knowledge, and then not getting to even play. I'd totally love to play wod at some point.
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Mar 26, 2016 09:11
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Nomadic Scholar posted:Well that saves me a 300 page read. I've had very little exposure to wod aside from having a crash course of creating a sin Eater from scratch in like 2 days with no prior game knowledge, and then not getting to even play. I'd totally love to play wod at some point. One of the toughest parts of joining a WoD game is finding somebody who isn't trying to run a 'WoD game - but!' that seems to run rampant with the system. Like if you can find someone willing to run WoD Base or Vampire or Werewolf or Mage completely straight-faced without some wacky gimmick, cherish that person. Or you could run your own game! Running WoD games are a snap compared to other systems. To clarify: there's nothing wrong with whacky gimmicks. But sometimes you just want to make a Mekhet and play court politics and deal with the occasional haunted haven or mage incursion and not play "Vampire - but in space!" or whatever else Donny wants to run this month.
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Mar 26, 2016 09:15
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And yet "Magical Girls in the WoD" sounds like such a potentially interesting idea on paper.
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Mar 26, 2016 10:37
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*coughs, points to Beast, Blood Dimmed Tides, Kithbook: Pooka, actually as you look closer the entire wall is made up of "cool concepts" with a tiny pile labeled "well executed" off to one side and beside that a sign with "well made fan-splats" sitting on the floor*
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Mar 26, 2016 11:56
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I've tried to run WoD games, but my reliable friends don't want to play WoD and my friends who want to play WoD aren't reliable. Neither am I, for that matter; I'm liable to just leave it by the wayside as soon as it starts to look like I might have to put in actual work to make it happen. Is there any kind of listing where you can go trawling for local and/or online games? I'm following the recruitment thread obviously, but that's a crapshoot that only gets crappier when you're an EU not interested in PBP.Peztopiary posted:*coughs, points to Beast, Blood Dimmed Tides, Kithbook: Pooka, actually as you look closer the entire wall is made up of "cool concepts" with a tiny pile labeled "well executed" off to one side and beside that a sign with "well made fan-splats" sitting on the floor* Someone fill me in on where all the negativity towards Beast is coming from. I had a gander at the preview version and it seemed a bit... twee? Like it has a lot of interesting things going (Lairs are especially intriguing) but the overall feel is of someone trying to cram the OC of an edgy 14 year old into the World of Darkness without breaking either. Is that it or has the consensus found better reasons to hate it?
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Mar 26, 2016 12:30
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Try and read the example of how feeding works, if you still have the preview, and tell us what you think of that.
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Mar 26, 2016 12:43
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You mean the bit where the PC brutally abuses a teenage bully for the pettiest of crimes because that's just how Beasts roll? Yeah, that bit is... Yeeeeeeeah.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:08
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The well's also a bit poisoned by the earlier drafts where it was even worse.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:28
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Terrorforge posted:You mean the bit where the PC brutally abuses a teenage bully for the pettiest of crimes because that's just how Beasts roll? Almost all of the feeding examples are either beasts brutally killtorturing people through the flimsiest of justifications, or doing extremely petty dumb poo poo that somehow still qualifies because there have to be "good" beasts. The finalized copy expands on the beast society, mainly that beasts who share a local area have their lairs joined into a super structure called a hive. And anyone's hungry horror can feed in anyone's attached lair. Since this (obviously) can cause conflict, the second rule of the beast litany(which is another new thing) is "don't criticize other beast's feeding habits". It's become extremely obvious that any aspirations of being a "good" beast are only there because being an utter rear end in a top hat makes heroes, and not because of any kind of moral fiber that runs through the community of abuse elementals. Also on the subject of heroes, they added a new sample hero (a retired marine who took up the hunt because his day job is boring) and a sidebar indicating that the reason you don't run into good heroes is because they're apparently really boring and they would never ever attack a beast for any reason and it's only the low integrity bastards that do any actual hunting (So, you know, don't feel conflicted about killing them and resolving all those sweet sweet conditions).
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Mar 26, 2016 13:32
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Terrorforge posted:You mean the bit where the PC brutally abuses a teenage bully for the pettiest of crimes because that's just how Beasts roll? Yes, exactly. Add to this that unlike, say, Vampire, the game seems desperate to convince that Beasts are perfectly justifiable in their horrible behavior and that the Heroes totally had it coming. It reads uncomfortably close to an abuse justification simulator. That is my issue with it, but other folks have had others, including the pettiness of the examples provided, the lack of anything to do apart from feeding, the fact that this so-called "crossover line" stomps all over other lines' themes and features at worst and is unexplicably loved by everyone for no reason at best and probably some others that now I don't recall.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:32
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Kurieg posted:Since this (obviously) can cause conflict, the second rule of the beast litany(which is another new thing) is "don't criticize other beast's feeding habits". It's like a perfect metaphor for the geek social fallacies that poison online communities only not ironic.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:04
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Kurieg posted:Also on the subject of heroes, they added a new sample hero (a retired marine who took up the hunt because his day job is boring) and a sidebar indicating that the reason you don't run into good heroes is because they're apparently really boring and they would never ever attack a beast for any reason and it's only the low integrity bastards that do any actual hunting (So, you know, don't feel conflicted about killing them and resolving all those sweet sweet conditions). Do they keep in the parts where the Hero MRAs are actually 100% right about the feminist Beasts like with fedora wearing Thedaus and the killer on trial? Or are we just down to stupidity like "umm, nunaced villians are actually boring."
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Mar 26, 2016 14:09
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Is Requiem pretty newbie GM friendly? I've been debating running one in PBP for a few weeks, probably going to wait until May once my schedule clears up, but I haven't run any nWoD or played in one that lasted more than a couple pages. My idea was that the city's Prince had just been killed under ~mysterious circumstances~ and the PC's would be working towards solving the murder while trying to get their chosen mentor(s) in line to be the next Prince. Ideally, I'd like to just use the Strix main book for the game, but are there any other books that would be really useful for high level vampire politics/city politics that I can look at over the next month or so while I'm prepping?
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Mar 26, 2016 14:34
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant by "OC of an edgy 14 year old"; create a complete asshat of a character, bend the universe backwards to put them in the right. I found that "Revisions" blog post from June where they promised they'd fix a lot of that stuff, specifically how "a Beast sating its Hunger is pretty much just cruel and abusive for the sake of it" but I guess that didn't really happen? Overall it seems to me they make a lot more sense as enemies of or unreliable allies to the other supernaturals than as a splat in their own right. A whole group of these misery guts would get awkward fast, but plopping one down in your chronicle as The Thing In The Lake That Knows Your Secrets or the pack's pet freak might be interesting.
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Mar 26, 2016 14:47
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LatwPIAT posted:It's like a perfect metaphor for the geek social fallacies that poison online communities only not ironic. Right??? I did a double take when I read that just now.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:23
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mistaya posted:Is Requiem pretty newbie GM friendly? Yes, it's the easiest one to run outside of maybe Werewolf or Demon.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:44
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Kurieg posted:The finalized copy expands on the beast society, mainly that beasts who share a local area have their lairs joined into a super structure called a hive. And anyone's hungry horror can feed in anyone's attached lair. Since this (obviously) can cause conflict, the second rule of the beast litany(which is another new thing) is "don't criticize other beast's feeding habits". Badass.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:50
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mistaya posted:Is Requiem pretty newbie GM friendly? I've been debating running one in PBP for a few weeks, probably going to wait until May once my schedule clears up, but I haven't run any nWoD or played in one that lasted more than a couple pages. My idea was that the city's Prince had just been killed under ~mysterious circumstances~ and the PC's would be working towards solving the murder while trying to get their chosen mentor(s) in line to be the next Prince. Damnation City is worth a read; I wouldn't worry too hard over the others, though the Clan books are fun reads.
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Mar 26, 2016 15:53
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paradoxGentleman posted:It reads uncomfortably close to an abuse justification simulator. This is the core of the reason why people are actively hostile to Beast, rather than just derisive and flip. mistaya posted:Is Requiem pretty newbie GM friendly? I've been debating running one in PBP for a few weeks, probably going to wait until May once my schedule clears up, but I haven't run any nWoD or played in one that lasted more than a couple pages. My idea was that the city's Prince had just been killed under ~mysterious circumstances~ and the PC's would be working towards solving the murder while trying to get their chosen mentor(s) in line to be the next Prince. Requiem's pretty friendly as far as CoD gamelines go, I'd say. The vampire experience is a little tangled in that their local politics are more in-depth and focused, but it's also relatively "clean" in that there aren't many peripheral phenomena thrown in to further complicate things. You've got vampires and maybe strix. There's enough other stuff through supplements and sidebars that it doesn't feel overly tidy, but not so much that every game ends up considering what the Bale Hounds might be doing over here or whether there are any local Banishers active or so on. You're living with vampires, that's enough problems. Damnation City is a big supplement that's pretty much 100% dedicated to helping the ST build a city for a political game. It's mostly Storytelling advice and fluff rather than mechanical add-ons.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:04
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Kurieg posted:Almost all of the feeding examples are either beasts brutally killtorturing people through the flimsiest of justifications, or doing extremely petty dumb poo poo that somehow still qualifies because there have to be "good" beasts. So, they've tripled down on Beasts being living examples of the Geek Social Fallacies? That's... something.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:17
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So what's the full beast litany (or whatever it's called) look like, then? What's rule 1?
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Mar 26, 2016 16:20
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You don't talk about Beast Club.
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Mar 26, 2016 16:20
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NutritiousSnack posted:Do they keep in the parts where the Hero MRAs are actually 100% right about the feminist Beasts like with fedora wearing Thedaus and the killer on trial? Or are we just down to stupidity like "umm, nunaced villians are actually boring." They got rid of the hero lexicon where they used a bunch of mra terminology. But they changed the fedora wearing hero into a textbook entitled incel. Ferrinus posted:So what's the full beast litany (or whatever it's called) look like, then? What's rule 1? 1:We are all family. 2:We are allowed to be what we are 3: Eat to live, don't live to eat.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:08
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That sounds really basic. What kinda conflicts even arise in a Beast game that aren't "we murdered some dudes and ate they corpses?"
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Mar 26, 2016 18:12
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Considering it's an entire game about turbo-assholes being turbo-assholes I'm sure plenty of people break those simple tenants.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:17
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Honestly? I'm not too sure. There's the general idea of ascending to apotheosis and maintaining control of the local hive, so whoever said it was a game about spreading your brand was right. In theory if the apex of the hive had a lair trait of "molten magma" then everyone's hives become extremely dangerous to everyone not protected by their horror, and you'd want to take that out, but the actual mechanics of hive and apex traits aren't really explained well.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:19
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Kurieg posted:They got rid of the hero lexicon where they used a bunch of mra terminology. But they changed the fedora wearing hero into a textbook entitled incel. It's good to know anyone who complains about abuse is still a Return of Kings subscriber. Cabbit posted:Considering it's an entire game about turbo-assholes being turbo-assholes I'm sure plenty of people break those simple tenants. I think if you need to cause suffering to others to the point of death or extreme trauma to be who are, you are not entitled to be that and if you can't change murder is justified. I do not weep for child eaters. NutritiousSnack fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Mar 26, 2016 |
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Mar 26, 2016 18:35
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NutritiousSnack posted:I think if you need to cause suffering to others to the point of death or extreme trauma to be who are, you are not entitled to be that and if you can't change murder is justified. I do not weep for child eaters. And it's worth specifying that the rules of Beast Club are explicit on this front, they're not just talking about being justified in their dark hunger to annoy people at their government job with lots of intentional red tape: Beast: the Primordial posted:Beasts are monsters. They can’t be otherwise. They must be allowed to hunt, feed, and even kill.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:55
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Mendrian posted:"Vampire - but in space!"
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Mar 26, 2016 20:28
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NutritiousSnack posted:I think if you need to cause suffering to others to the point of death or extreme trauma to be who are, you are not entitled to be that and if you can't change murder is justified. I do not weep for child eaters. I honestly wouldn't mind "I hurt people as a function of living, but that doesn't mean I'll let you kill me" as the basis of the game; it's just that Beast doesn't seem to get that there's even an ethical problem there and tends to regard wanting to kill Beasts as a form of racism rather than a rational act of self-protection.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:35
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Rand Brittain posted:I honestly wouldn't mind "I hurt people as a function of living, but that doesn't mean I'll let you kill me" as the basis of the game; it's just that Beast doesn't seem to get that there's even an ethical problem there and tends to regard wanting to kill Beasts as a form of racism rather than a rational act of self-protection.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:48
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Also that that as a tagline is also VtR already and possibly CtL 2e depending. There's definitely more overlap with other people's niches than any previous game had, but I do think there's a distinction between "I'm a predator," "I'm an abuse survivor," and "I'm the monster everyone hates." Vampire and Changeling make it work because they're fully aware of all the angles involved in being a sexy sex predator or an elf hiding from bad dad, and they don't sugar-coat it, or if they do sugarcoat it, they do it consciously. Beast doesn't make it work because they try to just slide all the murders, sadism, and abuse under a big carpet labeled "This Is My Story And I Am The Hero So Do Not Judge Me."
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Mar 26, 2016 20:57
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Also that that as a tagline is also VtR already and possibly CtL 2e depending. Not to mention PtC. Hell, pretty much all the gamelines have some mechanic (Death Rage, Paradox) that means just existing as a supernatural being puts you and those around you at some degree of risk. Most also feature examples of unsavory behaviour you can engage in for power or sustenance if you're evil or desperate. The difference is that in those games, these things are either accidents the PC is expected to try to prevent or explicitly called out as major dick moves in the text, the in-game social structure and even the mechanics. If a vampire or werewolf carried on the way a beast is expected to it wouldn't be a PC, it would be one of those 0-Integrity freakshows at the end of the Antagonists chapter presented as a cautionary example of what happens to people who think they can get away with playing murderhobos.
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Mar 26, 2016 21:18
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My copy of M20 showed up today and it is hands down the most well-produced RPG book I have ever purchased. They double-boxed it and had it shrink wrapped and also wrapped in some paper-net-wrapping kind of thing so it arrived completely unblemished. Totally worth the purchase price for someone as nostalgic about that system as I am.
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Mar 26, 2016 21:18
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Swagger Dagger posted:My copy of M20 showed up today and it is hands down the most well-produced RPG book I have ever purchased. They double-boxed it and had it shrink wrapped and also wrapped in some paper-net-wrapping kind of thing so it arrived completely unblemished. Totally worth the purchase price for someone as nostalgic about that system as I am. It's amazingly sturdy-feeling for its size. I was kind of half-expecting it to fall apart under its own weight, but it doesn't give any impression of doing that. It's a major improvement over V20 (W20 and DA20 were also sturdy but weren't nearly as big), and it lets me feel pretty confident about the Exalted hardcover (which is going to be about 40 pages shorter).
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Mar 26, 2016 21:29
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I think its time to post my revision of Beasts fundamental themes. From what I've gathered Beast really wants to be about queerness but doesn't know how to execute it apart from ripping off Night Breed and focusing on just how much conservatives hate queer people. Obviously there's a tonne of hosed up poo poo in that approach. So instead my revision of Beast is to focus queerness but to shift to the personal experience of queerness, after all isn't nWoD supposed to be all about "personal horror". Beast really wants to be all about loud and proud queers striking against their oppressors, which I don't think is a horrific narrative at all. Instead my revision focuses on the messy process of attaining a queer identity, the closetedness, the passing, the humiliation, the denial, self-hate, the loneliness, the fear of being found out and the hope of some type of acceptance. The key concepts are difference, acceptance and working with other splats. That's the intro, here is the actual pitch. You're a cosmic horror stuffed awkwardly into a human body and psyche. There was no pact, no event, no moment of creation, you were, you are and will always be a being of incandescent terrible potential, with powers and insight that terrify and awe all, not least yourself. In youth, you passed as human. Born, raised and educated into human society, you knew yourself as human. But your friends, lovers and enemies revealed that you did not share fundamental human experiences and perceptions. A vast yawning gap separated you from others. In maturity, you passed as supernatural. In searching for meaning and answers to your difference, you tripped those wires put out by the supernatural societies to find their own kind and for a moment you knew your self as something else. But again the fundamental experience was missing. In knowing yourself to be a Vampire you drank blood but did not experience the ecstasy nor the thirst for it. In knowing yourself to be a Werewolf you changed and fought but did not experience the rage. In knowing yourself to be a Mage you did the impossible and saw visions but had no knowledge of the Watchtowers and no feeling for the arcana. In knowing yourself to be a Changeling you recounted trauma and hid with others but could not make pacts nor remember life with the fae. In knowing yourself to be a Promethean you strived to become fully human but had no sense of the Pilgrimage nor the Pyros. etc. etc. Perhaps you stayed as long as you could with one of them, hiding even from yourself the difference that would mark you as not belonging. Or perhaps you moved between societies hoping each time that this would be your true home. Now, you search. You may have found a group of supernatural beings who accept you as best they can, or you may have integrated into a group unaware of your difference by passing as one of them, this time with experience protecting you, but still you search. You search for others like you so you can understand your self and at last find true kinship and commonality, or you search for a way to shed those last trappings of similarity, of humanity, and become what you truly are. But you've made enemies, in both human and supernatural societies there are threats that seek to conceal their difference, vampires, the strix, God Machine loyalists, banishers, the list goes on. And in both societies there are those who take up the burden to defend against those threats, heroes ready to seek out and destroy them. Unfortunately, you acquired at least one who is dedicated to hunting you down and removing the perceived (or real, if the player wants to go to the extreme horror of emulating the strix or another monster's monster) threat. So there's my take on a non-abusive Beast, notice I got rid of feeding complete because that's just wholly vampire territory, but I hope in general that the mechanics can fit it.
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Mar 26, 2016 23:31
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Swagger Dagger posted:My copy of M20 showed up today and it is hands down the most well-produced RPG book I have ever purchased. They double-boxed it and had it shrink wrapped and also wrapped in some paper-net-wrapping kind of thing so it arrived completely unblemished. Totally worth the purchase price for someone as nostalgic about that system as I am. It's a shame about the content. It's like buying a solid gold statue of Rob Schneider making GBS threads in a bowl of Fruit Loops.
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Mar 26, 2016 23:31
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Simian_Prime posted:It's a shame about the content. It's like buying a solid gold statue of Rob Schneider making GBS threads in a bowl of Fruit Loops. You know, I haven't heard a lot of talk about it. Was it bad? I mean, compared to Mage Revised?
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Mar 26, 2016 23:55
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