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egon_beeblebrox posted:Alright, I rewatched Mulholland Drive for the first time since I was 18 or so. I mostly got it but what in the gently caress did the old people have to do with all of it? That poo poo lost me. the best guess that I've read is They're her grandparents who told her she wouldn't make it in hollywood.. Given how everyone else kinda does the opposite of real life in the dream the way they're super supportive in the beginning means they probably didn't treat diane very nicely before she left.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:49
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egon_beeblebrox posted:Alright, I rewatched Mulholland Drive for the first time since I was 18 or so. I mostly got it but what in the gently caress did the old people have to do with all of it? That poo poo lost me. Here are three ideas I've heard floated around: 1) They were Diane's earliest memory of Hollywood, and a pleasant one at that, when she was fresh off the plane and was excited about becoming a star - before the city ate all of her hopes and dreams, chewed her up and spat her out. Their appearance at the end, and the way that they seem eerily sinister during the Betty fantasy as soon as they leave the airport, is all the poo poo Diane has done and had done to her catching up to the point where even her few good memories are terrifying and she can no longer delude herself by believing in an ounce of kindness in the city. 2) Diane was abused by her grandparents. She seems to associate violence with sex, and the elderly couple sneak into her bedroom, jeering and taunting her when she finally decides to kill herself. After she says goodbye to the sweet old couple at the airport, which is part of her fantasy, they almost immediately become creepy and unpleasant. And in the movie she's auditioning for, she's playing a young girl being sexually exploited by an older man. Also, if you believe in such a thing as the Lynch shared universe, it's mildly interesting that Diane says she's from Deep River, Ontario - Deep River was the name of the apartment block in Blue Velvet, where Dorothy was being violently molested by Frank. 3) They're part of Diane's attempts to blame everything that's gone wrong for her on other people, because she's a narcissist that refuse to accept that some or all of her fate is her own fault. In her fantasy, she's the wonderful actress that helps the damsel in distress and is kind to everybody. In reality, she comes across as very petty (refusing to give stuff back to her ex) and jealous (though arguably with good reason), we know that she's not as great an actress as she thinks (she lost the part to Camilla) and literally everything is a conspiracy against her - even up to the point where the sweet old couple were involved in the elaborate conspiracy theory against her that she's fabricated. I think they've all got merit in their own way.
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Mar 26, 2016 18:58
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Franchescanado posted:While not exactly what you're looking for, there's a great 20 minute documentary on YouTube of him and his helpers creating a mixed media painting, complete with a compilation of him saying "gently caress" and talking about his favorite shirt to paint in. Can you share a link to this? I'd love to see it.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:12
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crowoutofcontext posted:Yeah, a man who used to menace him with lit matches and fire. The abuse never left him. It fits with the whole Fire Walk With Me poem, which I feel is about cycles of abuse. That's definitely all true, but at the same time, its implied in Fire Walk With Me that Laura actually sees Bob sometimes and is surprised when she realizes Its actually Leland. So I do think the lodge sprits and Bob exist in some literal way. That's Lynch, things aren't just one or the other.
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Mar 26, 2016 19:19
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Full Battle Rattle posted:the best guess that I've read is They're her grandparents who told her she wouldn't make it in hollywood.. I thought they were the judges of the Jitterbug competition in Deep River who told her she could be a star someday. That's why we see the Jitterbug competition in the opening of the film, and her on stage with them.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:12
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Full Battle Rattle posted:That's weird that something that frustrated him so much would basically be the basis for the movie. Leland being the killer is perfect, and although maybe it would have been better to reveal it later, if I recall correctly the plan was to never reveal the killer, which would prolong the series indefinitely, and that sounds like some walking dead level garbage. Eventually you realize that nothing is ever going to really happen and you stop watching. I hate poo poo like that. I think the idea was just to never have a "this is the one where we finally reveal the killer" episode. It was supposed to become clear slowly over time.
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Mar 26, 2016 20:14
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Lord Krangdar posted:I think the idea was just to never have a "this is the one where we finally reveal the killer" episode. It was supposed to become clear slowly over time. quote:However, Lynch clashed with the ABC Network on several matters, particularly whether or not to reveal Laura Palmer's killer. The network insisted that the revelation be made during the second season but Lynch wanted the mystery to last as long as the series. From the Twin Peaks wiki, the source given is the box set that came out in '07.
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Mar 26, 2016 21:39
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Lord Krangdar posted:I thought they were the judges of the Jitterbug competition in Deep River who told her she could be a star someday. That's why we see the Jitterbug competition in the opening of the film, and her on stage with them. Okay, that's the one that fits for me. That's great.
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Mar 26, 2016 22:54
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Basebf555 posted:That's definitely all true, but at the same time, its implied in Fire Walk With Me that Laura actually sees Bob sometimes and is surprised when she realizes Its actually Leland. So I do think the lodge sprits and Bob exist in some literal way. That's Lynch, things aren't just one or the other. He protects Laura from realizing that her father is sexually abusing her. Laura loves her father and by experiencing BOB she is able to separate him from the incestuous rapist she hates. It makes sense that BOB resembles Leland's abuser, as Leland's abuser's actions continue to assert pain and fear through Leland. When Laura observes herself turn into BOB in the mirror at the end of the film she refuses to continue the cycle of abuse, albeit at the expense of her life. It's one of the things I love about FWWM. Imaginary or supernatural beings are much more complex than say Fight Club or Mr.Robot where they all exist in a single, mentally unstable character's head. In this way Lynch is able to explore things like cross-generational trauma or socially agreed upon delusions. BOB functions on so many levels. In the final TV series episode when BOB destroys Windom Earl for asking for Cooper's soul it's almost meta. He is erasing an ineptly written villain with no nuance and asserting himself as the chief antagonist of the show again, while simultaneously reminding the audience that the show was/is about the evil that comes from within and not some wacky, satanic force penetrating an otherwise bucolic paradise. BOB says you can't "take" someone else's soul, and I think it points toward both Leland's culpability that was hinted at by his smiling doppelganger uttering "I didn't kill anybody" as well as his character change in FWWM.
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Mar 27, 2016 04:38
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Full Battle Rattle posted:From the Twin Peaks wiki, the source given is the box set that came out in '07. I'm sure I heard that well before then. I guess that quotes from Wrapped in Plastic were replaced by the DVD as a source.
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Mar 27, 2016 20:37
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In the interview in "Lynch on Lynch" they ask him about his personal preference of the big revelation and he basically says "...not until much,much later" The way they did it renders a shitload of the actual police investigations and evidence gathering useless. Audrey's entire escapade amounts to nothing and their investigation into Leo is a bit of a dead end. I think the point was that the ongoing investigation was supposed to dismantle all of the towns dark secrets and have each episode be preoccupied with various characters slowly tearing down the self-imprisoning illusions they had created for themselves. With no crime investigation snooping around their personal affects there was no real conceit for the town-folks to have their badly repressed secrets flung back in their faces.
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Mar 27, 2016 21:15
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andrew o'hehir in conversation with martha nochimson, who wrote the books wild at heart in hollywood, and david lynch swerves (which are two of the better books about lynch that aren't lynch on lynch or beautiful dark, the latter of which features the best sustained discussion on lynch's late movies) for salon http://www.salon.com/2016/03/28/blue_velvets_mystery_of_masculinity_how_david_lynchs_masterwork_reshaped_american_consciousness/ probably gonna see the restoration tonight
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Mar 29, 2016 21:53
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I'm so mad that the Blue Velvet restoration doesn't seem to be playing anywhere in the Pacific Northwest at all.
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Mar 30, 2016 04:17
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I was watching the pilot to Serial Experiments Lain with a homie and commented on the lynchian influences. He had actually never seen a Lynch, so that gave me an excuse to watch blue velvet again. 2 things I noticed: the lumberton police station has a sign with the lumberton police seal, which has a log on it. 2- there's a huge porcelain doll, as in larger than person-sized on the couch in "this is it." Lynch props are v underrated
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Mar 30, 2016 04:35
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atrus50 posted:I was watching the pilot to Serial Experiments Lain with a homie and commented on the lynchian influences. He had actually never seen a Lynch, so that gave me an excuse to watch blue velvet again. 2 things I noticed: the lumberton police station has a sign with the lumberton police seal, which has a log on it. 2- there's a huge porcelain doll, as in larger than person-sized on the couch in "this is it." Lynch props are v underrated Man, I haven't watched Lain since middle school/high school, but yea, I can definitely see that thinking back now, like all the shots of power lines.
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Mar 30, 2016 05:33
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Radio Spiricom posted:andrew o'hehir in conversation with martha nochimson, who wrote the books wild at heart in hollywood, and david lynch swerves (which are two of the better books about lynch that aren't lynch on lynch or beautiful dark, the latter of which features the best sustained discussion on lynch's late movies) for salon http://www.salon.com/2016/03/28/blue_velvets_mystery_of_masculinity_how_david_lynchs_masterwork_reshaped_american_consciousness/ That conversation is frustratingly short.
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Mar 30, 2016 13:16
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I think some of what she says is questionable. "[W]hat is constant in noir is that all the problems of the world are linked to female sexuality"? I think she's really overstating that as there's a long list of noirs where that just isn't the case, and then her trying to say female sexuality isn't linked to the problems Jeffrey faces in Blue Velvet borders on nonsensical, when, you know, his sexual experiences with Dorothy is a big part of what allures him to the darkness. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding her point.
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Mar 30, 2016 13:31
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Radio Spiricom posted:andrew o'hehir in conversation with martha nochimson, who wrote the books wild at heart in hollywood, and david lynch swerves (which are two of the better books about lynch that aren't lynch on lynch or beautiful dark, the latter of which features the best sustained discussion on lynch's late movies) for salon http://www.salon.com/2016/03/28/blue_velvets_mystery_of_masculinity_how_david_lynchs_masterwork_reshaped_american_consciousness/ Swerves is really good, even though it's a tad expensive and some of the interview sections are a little frustrating (the physicist she learned a lot for the book from is both insufferably all-encompassing in his claims and frustratingly vague on his actual answers to Nochimson's questions. Also he seems to hate art that's not scientifically accurate to the letter). But I love Nochimson's reading of Inland Empire in particular - how she connects it to the idea of the marketplace as a source of stagnation rather than creativity. Gotta get her other book one of these days, if only to see what she does with FWWM.
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Mar 31, 2016 08:20
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Raxivace posted:I think some of what she says is questionable. "[W]hat is constant in noir is that all the problems of the world are linked to female sexuality"? I think she's really overstating that as there's a long list of noirs where that just isn't the case, and then her trying to say female sexuality isn't linked to the problems Jeffrey faces in Blue Velvet borders on nonsensical, when, you know, his sexual experiences with Dorothy is a big part of what allures him to the darkness. Film criticism is largely garbage. This is something I find to be truer and truer as I get older.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:15
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Film criticism is largely garbage. This is something I find to be truer and truer as I get older.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:27
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Any word on when in 2017 Twin Peaks series 3 will be broadcast?
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Apr 28, 2016 23:14
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Josef K. Sourdust posted:Any word on when in 2017 Twin Peaks series 3 will be broadcast? The first half. They are done shooting, in middle of editing. We probably won't hear anything more specific until fall.
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Apr 30, 2016 09:24
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GonSmithe posted:Fire Walk with Me was the first David Lynch movie I watched (after watching the show), and I loved every minute of it. It's so depressingly dark and tragic. same except I hadn't seen the show lol. it was so cool
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May 19, 2016 11:09
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I have been watching and rewatching Premonition Following An Evil Deed lately. Everything in that film you see just long enough and just clearly enough to inspire obsession. It reminds me of the Zapruder film in that way.
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May 19, 2016 11:57
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The Time Dissolver posted:I have been watching and rewatching Premonition Following An Evil Deed lately. Everything in that film you see just long enough and just clearly enough to inspire obsession. It reminds me of the Zapruder film in that way. Its absolutely incredible. One of the best soundtracks for what it's worth, as well.
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May 19, 2016 12:40
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What do you guys make of the plot is an allegory for the OJ Simpson case element of Lost Highway?
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May 19, 2016 20:22
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While it's definitely inspired by OJ, I wouldn't call it an allegory. The main character invents realities and identities to hide the fact that he's a murderer from his own mind. He is so disturbed by his own actions that he refuses to see the real world. OJ just had to convince his jury while knowing the truth. But if you have some ideas, please share. I was too young to really know what was happening with OJ.
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May 19, 2016 21:41
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Let's ask Robert Blake about the parallels between Lost Highway and being acquited of the murder of your ex wife.
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May 19, 2016 21:48
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Method acting?
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May 19, 2016 22:16
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Franchescanado posted:While it's definitely inspired by OJ, I wouldn't call it an allegory. The main character invents realities and identities to hide the fact that he's a murderer from his own mind. He is so disturbed by his own actions that he refuses to see the real world. OJ just had to convince his jury while knowing the truth. I was only 11 when it happened, but I've read a fair amount about the case. And I've often wondered if OJ's statement about "finding the real killers" isn't borne out of him convincing himself that he didn't do it with some sort of pseudologia fantastica thing. If you've never read about it, psuedologia fantastica is a type of pathological lying where they lie so frequently and in such a intricate manner (like, say, covering up a double murder), that they themselves start to believe it. Not unlike what you alluded to in the spoilered text. The thing people forget about pathological liars is, they get so caught up in what they do that they're almost detached from the reality of the situation, and they end up planting false memories in their own minds. It can go both ways, too. Sometimes they make themselves out to be God-like people who can do no wrong. But they can also re-imagine themselves as awful, drat near evil people. It's pretty interesting stuff!
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May 20, 2016 01:00
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?? He was found not guilty though? What a weird hypothetical.
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May 20, 2016 08:54
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Mantis42 posted:?? He was found not guilty though? What a weird hypothetical. Nobody I know actually thinks he's innocent. His not guilty charge has more to do with the piss poor prosecution than anything, and his fame made a difference as well.
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May 20, 2016 13:20
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I bought INLAND EMPIRE a few months ago and tried watching it but only made it about halfway through before I was so confused and lost I shut it off and haven't tried watching since. I know it's a 'difficult' movie but I love a good difficult movie and I haven't really been that lost on any other Lynch movie before. Can anyone who has any sort of grasp on that movie maybe shed a little light on it for me. I want to watch it again but the first time I kind of feel I was missing something or I didn't pick up on the right things or maybe it's just a bad movie and plain doesn't make any sense I dunno.
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May 20, 2016 17:25
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When it was on Netflix a few years ago, it took me three separate sittings, weeks apart, to make it through Inland Empire. It's a long, exhausting, disquieting movie, and I say this as someone who loves most of Lynch's work. It's a HARD watch.
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May 20, 2016 17:32
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Nobody I know actually thinks he's innocent. His not guilty charge has more to do with the piss poor prosecution than anything, and his fame made a difference as well. Its also likely the cops planted blood evidence. It wasn't definitively proven but I'm sure the jury took that into consideration.
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May 20, 2016 17:41
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FalsePriest posted:I bought INLAND EMPIRE a few months ago and tried watching it but only made it about halfway through before I was so confused and lost I shut it off and haven't tried watching since. I know it's a 'difficult' movie but I love a good difficult movie and I haven't really been that lost on any other Lynch movie before. well, you should finish the film, first off. watch it through to completion and then watch the deleted scenes on the second disc (note that they're titled "more things that happened.") the tagline ("a woman in trouble") sheds some light, and laura dern answered, while doing press for the film, that it's about "a woman's journey back to herself." whenever lynch presents it, he describes it using a passage from the upanishads, "we are like the spider, we weave our web and move along in it. we are like the dreamer who dreams, and then lives in the dream. this is true of the entire universe." it also helps to know how the film was made. it was shot on a sony pd-150 which freed lynch up to essentially improvise the film. the anchoring piece of its "screenplay" is a 14-page single spaced monologue recited by dern (to the man in glasses in the office above the nightclub) and the rest of the film was shot piece-meal over two or three years and intermixed with footage from webseries' that lynch was working on at the time (rabbits and axxon n in particular) i also think fredric jameson's description of blue velvet explains what i perceive the narrative of inland empire to be: "the boy without fear of the fairytale can set out to undo this world of baleful enchantment, free its princess (while marrying another), and kill the magician." as with anything operating at its level of abstraction i think that it's difficult to come to grips with any one interpretation of the film and part of why i think inland empire is such a powerful experience is because it's basically a signifier soup in which content, form, theme, and reception all reflect and refract each other. it's one of the few films i can think of (eraserhead being another) where every reading of it is valid. a few such popular readings: - the film is a non-narrative feature, a collection of semi-interlocking vignettes that work with themes, motifs, and moods that lynch has been working with for his entire career, and as such it evokes connections intertextually from everything from six men getting sick, the grandmother, and eraserhead to itself. - it is a theme driven work, centered around three stories all about infidelity/adultery, which is one of the key themes of his entire career - it is a theme driven work, centered around three stories all about karmic retribution cycles, redemption, and "debts unpaid." - it is a theme driven work about film, the relationship between fiction and reality, art and artist, performance, acting, rehearsal, spectatorship, and a director's moral responsibilities these readings are all fine but they betray the sense of structure that the film has. some more popular readings would be (i'm putting these under spoilers in case anyone hasn't seen it yet) - the film is a bit like lost highway/mulholland dr in that it is about a person who commits adultery, is "punished" for their crimes, and in order to cope with the severity of what they've done escapes into a fantasy. susan blue commits adultery with billy side and is murdered by doris side for it at the intersection of hollywood and vine. in the last moments of life she imagines a reality where she is a famous hollywood actress named nikki grace, and the plot moves from this point (which comes at about 2h30m in) - nikki grace, susan blue, and the lost girl are all generated by the unnamed laura dern character in her dictation to the man in the office. she describes in great detail all the grotesque things that have happened in her life and this is her coming to terms with them. - the central character of the film is the lost girl, a polish prostitute who commits adultery, is found out, and is killed for it and then sits in a purgatory waiting to be guided to heaven, watching the events of the film we are watching. laura dern plays nikki grace, a hollywood actress who's star has faded and is cast in a comeback role in on high in blue tomorrows, a tennessee williams pastiche about adultery. an interpretation is that nikki is a spiritual companion of the lost girl, asked by her neighbor to essentially go on a quest with the lost girl guiding each other to enlightenment and freeing the world of evil by killing the phantom, a being of pure evil sort of like BOB or frank. nikki also has an overbearing husband, a polish man named piotrek krol. nikki and co-star devon berk begin rehearsing for their roles of susan blue and billy side in on high in blue tomorrows, and find out that it is a remake of a film titled 47 which is reportedly cursed, and in which the lead actors were murdered. devon, at the behest of his friends and agent is urged to not commit adultery with nikki, (because he will be killed presumably by piotrek if found out) but does so anyway. the "fiction" of on high in blue tomorrows begins infecting the "reality" of nikki's life and vice versa until they eventually collapse in the blue room scene. from there the movie becomes centered around nikki/sue's and the lost girl's symbiotic quest to guide each other to enlightenment (i'm keeping this brief but i can elaborate if you want) there are reams and reams of inland empire analyses out there, but as with any lynch analyzing it a posteriori does the film a disservice. you really must sit with it, it took me about three viewings to come to terms with it. it is far and away his densest work, and as a result his most underrated, but also one of his best and most rewarding. good luck. edit: if you haven't, watch maya deren's meshes of the afternoon, andrei tarkovsky's mirror, and alain resnais' last year and marienbad. i think these films also help to illuminate inland empire, especially formally. Radio Spiricom fucked around with this message at 01:32 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 20, 2016 18:20
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I thought it was this thread I saw it posted in but I guess I was wrong, but I will ask here anyway: Sometime on this forum someone posted a video of scenes from David Lynch's Dune with the monologues cut out, demonstrating his prowess in visual storytelling. I brought this video up to a friend today when we were talking about Dune and was wondering if anyone has the video on hand or anything. Thank you.
GorfZaplen fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jun 3, 2016 |
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Jun 3, 2016 05:42
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GorfZaplen posted:I thought it was this thread I saw it posted in but I guess I was wrong, but I will ask here anyway: Sometime on this forum someone posted a video of scenes from David Lynch's Dune with the monologues cut out, demonstrating his prowess in visual storytelling. I brought this video up to a friend today when we were talking about Dune and was wondering if anyone has the video on hand or anything. Thank you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qJD19I5DK0
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Jun 3, 2016 12:00
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drat this makes me want to watch Dune again.
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Jun 3, 2016 15:02
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Thank you.
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Jun 3, 2016 15:28
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