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Honestly, I don't see how anyone could enjoy The Pale King. Sentences describing different time periods just put in randomly in the middle of a paragraph about a completely different subject. Long paragraphs describing the details of accounting methods. I mean, I loved Infinite Jest, but the pale king is just unreadable. I guess it's probably just over my head.
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Mar 26, 2016 09:33
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My parents both liked it, but then my dad has a doctorate in economics and my mum is an accountant and they also enjoyed those terrible Dorothy L. Sayers mysteries with the train timetables.
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Mar 26, 2016 11:37
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Huh, which of the Sayers mysteries are terrible because the ones I've read are all classics of the genre?
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Mar 26, 2016 12:54
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The Five Red Herrings, and apparently there is a second marginally better one along the same lines. She wrote them at the height of crossword puzzle mania and meant them to be a puzzle/logic problem in book form where you would make up lists and charts as you were reading it yourself and compare them to the character's lists and charts. As a puzzle I am sure they are great but as an actual book to read I found 5 red herrings tedious beyond measure.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:00
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The only ones I've read are the ones where someone gets killed by a church bell and someone who got killed by a banker who ran away to join the circus, and neither were the worst mystery novel I've read.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:24
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Oh the others she wrote are right up there with the best, like the the Campion series by Margery Allingham, but again there are duds, apart from the Tiger in the Smoke the post war books can be a bit out there, and the ones written during the war contain a lot of propaganda.
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Mar 26, 2016 13:32
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The Dennis System posted:Honestly, I don't see how anyone could enjoy The Pale King. Sentences describing different time periods just put in randomly in the middle of a paragraph about a completely different subject. Long paragraphs describing the details of accounting methods. I mean, I loved Infinite Jest, but the pale king is just unreadable. I guess it's probably just over my head. It's supposed to be boring, the book is about embracing boring But it's also unfinished and not constructed by Wallace himself so, yes, it's also bit unreadable
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Mar 26, 2016 21:54
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mallamp posted:It's supposed to be boring, the book is about embracing boring That sounds awful.
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Mar 27, 2016 00:04
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Also general question to anyone in this thread who feels like answering. Years ago I read a story by Don Delillo called "Baader–Meinhof" (you can read the whole thing here if anyone is interested, it's nice and short too). I don't think all the po mo allusions to the difficulty of communication or whatever made much of an impression on me but I quite enjoyed the story on a more visceral level as an interesting and engaging little portrait of a moment in time. I enjoyed the dialogue and characterizations and resolved to keep my eyes open for anything by Delillo in the future. Then I came across 'Cosmpolis' in a second hand book store. I bought it, got through a couple chapters, put it down and never picked it up again. What I read just wasn't very interesting. Then as a gift somebody gave me his book "White Noise" and told me I'd like it. I tried to start it once but when I saw that the main character was a professor I put it down because one of my pet peeves about contemporary fiction is how often authors choose to write about a poet / artist / author / academic, and I tend to really hate it. I like to read about people with lives somewhat different than mine and I have a very low tolerance for writers writing about writing. Is Delillo just not the right kind of author for me? Or does he have some other good short stories anyone would recommend? After years of mostly reading non-fiction I've started to really get into novels and short stories again and wouldn't mind reading more authors who are still actually alive.
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Mar 27, 2016 00:34
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Helsing posted:Also general question to anyone in this thread who feels like answering. Years ago I read a story by Don Delillo called "Baader–Meinhof" (you can read the whole thing here if anyone is interested, it's nice and short too). I don't think all the po mo allusions to the difficulty of communication or whatever made much of an impression on me but I quite enjoyed the story on a more visceral level as an interesting and engaging little portrait of a moment in time. I enjoyed the dialogue and characterizations and resolved to keep my eyes open for anything by Delillo in the future. I think you should reconsider White Noise if you only read the first two pages. Jeep fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 01:44
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Helsing posted:Is Delillo just not the right kind of author for me? Or does he have some other good short stories anyone would recommend? After years of mostly reading non-fiction I've started to really get into novels and short stories again and wouldn't mind reading more authors who are still actually alive. I'd give White Noise another try, it's one of his most accessible ones, and the main character is shown to be solipsistic and imperfect. In many ways he's part of a wider, quite well-observed satire on academia, so his inclusion isn't too bad. And plus his family are the main focus anyway.
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Mar 27, 2016 03:07
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The Dennis System posted:Honestly, I don't see how anyone could enjoy The Pale King. Sentences describing different time periods just put in randomly in the middle of a paragraph about a completely different subject. Long paragraphs describing the details of accounting methods. I mean, I loved Infinite Jest, but the pale king is just unreadable. I guess it's probably just over my head. It takes place in my hometown of Peoria and his descriptions of some of its features (the river in particular, which he describes as "bourbon colored") are spot on so it has a personal charm for me.
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Mar 27, 2016 08:41
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Helsing posted:That sounds awful.
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Mar 27, 2016 08:55
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mallamp posted:It's depressed persons vision of what life is, being content with boredom or quitting It's cool that David Foster Wallace was the most boring depressed person ever to live
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Mar 28, 2016 00:25
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Helsing posted:Is Delillo just not the right kind of author for me? Or does he have some other good short stories anyone would recommend? After years of mostly reading non-fiction I've started to really get into novels and short stories again and wouldn't mind reading more authors who are still actually alive. I would chime in to recommend you give White Noise more of a chance. If you don't like it, you might not like Delilo. I had the opposite problem - I liked White Noise and tried to go on and read another book of his (Underworld) and disliked it.
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Mar 28, 2016 03:14
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The cool thing about Delillo is that if you like his narration you are in for a treat because all of his characters sound like the narrator! Because of this, all the characters lack any sort of presence and all feel the same. This isn't helped by the long back and forths that happen frequently where everyone is on the exact same page on a philosophical/social idea. These can be mistaken for narratorial digression if it weren't for the quotations marks bookending the block of text. Also every point he tries to make in White Noise is boring and overwrought. Some of the prose in White Noise is dreadful as well. The ending is particularly bad.: quote:I fired the gun, the weapon, the pistol, the firearm, the automatic. The sound snowballed in the white room, adding on reflected waves. I watched blood squirt from the victim's mid-section. A delicate arc. I marvelled at the rich color, sensed the color-causing action of nunnucleated cells. The flow diminished to a trickle, spread across the tile floor. I saw beyond words. I knew what red was, saw it in terms of dominant wavelength, luminance, purity. His big talent is being able to describe these big scenes, settings, where everything feels very alien and unreal. The moonie wedding in Mao II and the evacuation in White Noise are good examples. Non-Delillo thing: I've been reading Hans Fallada's A Small Circus and enjoying it a lot. Fallada's a German author who published this book in 1931, and it chronicles a farmer's revolt against excessive taxation from the state.. Very interesting dynamic between the farmers, the bureaucrats, the press and the political opportunists. A lot of the plot moves forward in dialogue (a lot of one-on-one meetings in people's offices), but the characters are so unique and realised its never a chore. No political party or ideology comes off well here, even those with the best intentions. I've nearly finished so I'm looking forward to reading Clarice Lispector's complete works next. Besson fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 03:49
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I really don't think the Pale King is about being content with boredom, nor has DFW ever written anything that would suggest that depressed people are content with boredom.
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Mar 28, 2016 03:50
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They aren't , that's why they're depressed
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Mar 28, 2016 14:08
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mallamp posted:They aren't , that's why they're depressed I work in mental health and this post is distressing to me on many many levels. 
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Mar 28, 2016 14:15
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Today someone saw me reading Confessions of a Justified Sinner and called me a hipster. Am I missing a cultural phenomenon? Has James Hogg broke into lit pop-culture? I hope so.blue squares posted:I really don't think the Pale King is about being content with boredom, nor has DFW ever written anything that would suggest that depressed people are content with boredom. I don't think depressed people think too much about boredom. Then again, depression is a really big umbrella.
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Mar 31, 2016 12:24
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Man, that'd rule.
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Mar 31, 2016 12:33
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mallamp posted:They aren't , that's why they're depressed Maybe that's why you're depressed, but clinically depressed people who kill themselves have it a lot worse than "oh man life is boring this sucks" edit: to be relevant to the thread, this is just what Wallace says. I don't know about what a psychologist says, I'm just talking 'bout the lit blue squares fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 12:43
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I am glad the don't be a baby book thread is finally tackling the problem of what depression is.
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Mar 31, 2016 12:50
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I'm reading the Woman in the Dunes by Kobo Abe a man is trapped in a hole in the sand and the sand is annoying him. It might be a metaphor for marriage.
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Mar 31, 2016 12:51
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I've decided fiction is stupid and pointless
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Mar 31, 2016 12:59
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So perfect for you then.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:07
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So bored with mankind's creative capabilities, ugh. Yes, I'm American, why do you ask
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Mar 31, 2016 13:15
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CestMoi posted:I'm reading the Woman in the Dunes by Kobo Abe a man is trapped in a hole in the sand and the sand is annoying him. It might be a metaphor for marriage. I didn't even realize this was a novel first. The film is loving incredible, though.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:19
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blue squares posted:I've decided fiction is stupid and pointless
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Mar 31, 2016 13:25
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blue squares posted:Maybe that's why you're depressed, but clinically depressed people who kill themselves have it a lot worse than "oh man life is boring this sucks" I dunno I'm suicidally depressed and I'd describe a general feeling of boredom as a huge facet of that. I guess it's wrapped up in ennui/dissatisfaction? ? and now that ive brought ennui into it this discussion is about real literature again Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 13:30
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blue squares posted:I've decided fiction is stupid and pointless This is correct, and is the reason why poetry is the only worthwhile written art form.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:41
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CestMoi posted:This is correct, and is the reason why poetry is the only worthwhile written art form.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:28
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WAY TO GO WAMPA!! posted:the only worthwhile poetry is rap lyrics The only worthwhile rap is educational rap about covalent bonds and Christianity and stuff.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:41
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WAY TO GO WAMPA!! posted:the only worthwhile poetry is rap lyrics agreed Wordsworth aint got poo poo on Talib Kweli
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Mar 31, 2016 14:41
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CestMoi posted:I am glad the don't be a baby book thread is finally tackling the problem of what depression is. Sorry, he escaped from GIP. I'll wrangle a posse and we'll take him home.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:41
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http://magazine.columbia.edu/features/spring-2016/phillip-lopate-celebrates-personal-essay?page=0,1 Lopate on DFW: Phillip Lopate posted:Lopate admits, for example, that he cannot fully appreciate even as highly influential and gifted an essayist as David Foster Wallace, partly because he is made uncomfortable and slightly anxious by Wallace’s “confusion and neurosis.” (“There was a lot of nuttiness in my family,” Lopate says.) Although his students look up to Wallace as “this brilliant eccentric, a sort of Kurt Cobain of literature,” Lopate says, “I can’t have that same relationship to him because I’m older than Wallace, and in my own reading I’m drawn to authors who seem wiser than I am. I don’t want the experience of reading somebody who’s tormented. That sounds very narrow of me, but on some level I’m still looking for wisdom when I read.”
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Mar 31, 2016 14:43
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CestMoi posted:I'm reading the Woman in the Dunes by Kobo Abe a man is trapped in a hole in the sand and the sand is annoying him. It might be a metaphor for marriage. That book is very good. You should read more Kobo Abe, like The Box Man and Kangaroo Notebook. He is a very funny writer, but his novels also work like surrealist kafka fables; there is always some central metaphor that it feels like you almost understand, but not quite. The Japanese filmmaker Hiroshi Teshigahara did 4 films based on Abe works, for which Abe wrote the screenplay. They are excellent, Criterion has a collection of 3 of them, one of which is Woman in the Dunes. You oughtta watch those flix, too.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:48
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Zeris posted:Sorry, he escaped from GIP. I'll wrangle a posse and we'll take him home. Nooo, you can't have me! I can't make it through another code red
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Mar 31, 2016 15:08
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Blue Squares does not belong to any one subforum He belongs to the ages EDIT: BTW Blue Squares come back to TFF for a bit we need some more people for the Rice/Marino alliance.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:09
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Blue Squares does not belong to any one subforum What side should I be on?
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Mar 31, 2016 15:30
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