Ddraig posted:

The classic sociopath argument:

"I have no conception of feelings or empathy, so I expect nobody else does"

And if you're using third person pronouns in a one on one meeting with someone you've probably got bigger social skill problems than being able to remember someone's name.

Ddraig posted:

It is, but I imagine you'll be treated as creepy as gently caress if you refer to someone you're speaking to directly by only referring to them in the third person.

DeusExMachinima posted:

Blog was a compound word that actually covered a new thing though? If I started calling it a webog when blog already existed would anyone bother?

Also this thread is regularly confusing transgender with genderqueer/fluid. You can be one or both. There's certainly some overlap between the two sets but if you're solely trans there's no automatic reason to assume you're going to want to be called anything but he or she.

EXTREME INSERTION posted:

I'm not sure what the point of this post is. Is "they" an acceptable gender neutral pronoun or not?

EXTREME INSERTION posted:

I have enough trouble with people's first names, I'm trying to imagine meeting someone and remembering unique neopronouns along with their conjugations.

Ddraig posted:

The classic sociopath argument:

"I have no conception of feelings or empathy, so I expect nobody else does"

Cingulate posted:

The nice thing about singular they is that it's under specified. It doesn't mean "neuter", it means "I don't know".
Currently it's super insulting to keep using it once you've been informed about what to use for a particular person, but I can imagine it taking over and becoming totally neutral so English loses gender marking on third person singular pronouns and the whole debate becomes moot. Not saying this will happen, but it is one possible future.

EXTREME INSERTION posted:

That's great, I was talking about the singular they

Ddraig posted:

The singular they is still a third person pronoun.

The situation in which you envisaged seemed to be that you couldn't remember someone's name, let alone their preferred pronoun. In a situation where that person is there you would more than likely have someone who knows that person who would be able to assist you.

"Hey, I've forgotten you're friends name. What was it?"

At which point they would probably be more than happy to provide you with that information.

Likewise, if you're directly talking to that person and you're not hugely acquainted with them you can, assuming you've not got incredibly stunted social skills, slip in "Hey, I'm sorry... I know you're x's friend, but I can't quite place your name?"

Likewise if you happen to misgender them (a situation that seems unlikely given that you're talking to them directly) it's trivial for them to say "Actually, I prefer it if you referred to me as x" at which point you can either choose to do so and be an actual, functional adult or repeatedly poo poo yourself like an impudent child and wallow around in it.

blowfish posted:

Dealing with strangers you will probably never see again: must look enjoyable with faux-politeness or you're literally a sociopath. Maybe you should go live in a country where people aren't socialised to reflexively project a polite happy image now matter how annoyed or miserable they are like in the UK or America and be terrified of the 95% sociopaths in the population.

EXTREME INSERTION posted:

So, what would be a list of these pronouns that are in current usage so that I would know how to congugate them and use them in day to day language

EXTREME INSERTION posted:

So, what would be a list of these pronouns that are in current usage so that I would know how to congugate them and use them in day to day language

blowfish posted:

this would be a good thing because people caring about genders of other people (maybe apart from their friends/partners) is just a dumb loving thing that doesn't fulfil any useful function

SedanChair posted:

If somebody in real life demands to be called "xir" please get back to us here in the thread. Make sure you measure the single horn coming out of their forehead, as well.

OwlFancier posted:

"I can't remember names therefore names are stupid."

twodot posted:

Isn't this backwards? Semi-unique pronouns don't make any sense because names already exist as semi-unique identifiers. Asking to be identified by a pronoun no one else I know uses isn't semantically different from just asking that you always refer to them by name.

Lichy posted:

Gender had a huge influence in such diverse fields of life like sports, dating and susceptibility to disease to count a few, so I wouldn't discount it as completely useless information.

SedanChair posted:

It's really important for you to be able to let people know you think they are freaks, huh? But I wonder how long you'd last if you went through life with others telling you the same. Not long, I imagine.

Lichy posted:

I would also very much appreciate if this was done.

blowfish posted:

Projecting very hard again, I see, so let me clarify. I would certainly let you, in particular know I consider you a freak because you're so annoying I'll take any opportunity to insult you, but that doesn't apply to random people who haven't been annoying pieces of poo poo to me regardless of their self image.

SedanChair posted:

You would not, because I am very polite in real life. It's easy to do! For some.

Lyesh posted:

The bathroom stuff is a much bigger deal and really gets into stuff like quantifying gender presentation and the wonderful days of arresting people who weren't wearing at least three pieces of gender-appropriate clothing. Bathroom access is also something that people need in their day-to-day lives, and non-binary female-assigned people and trans women who don't pass as cis (among others) have a horrific choice there. One that's definitely not made better by the threat of being arrested for having to pee and not feeling safe using a men's bathroom.

blowfish posted:

I have sat in meetings where the chair opened by "I am %NAME, a %GENDER and %PRONOUN, and want to clarify this is a safe space for all sexual and gender identities and orientations" when the topic was something completely unrelated to gender or even identity in general so yeah occasionally tumbler does spill over into real life.

blowfish posted:

Actively forcing yourself to be polite to annoying strangers is actually unhealthy. Stop oppressing me with your fake-friendly privilege.

blowfish posted:

I have sat in meetings where the chair opened by "I am %NAME, a %GENDER and %PRONOUN, and want to clarify this is a safe space for all sexual and gender identities and orientations" when the topic was something completely unrelated to gender or even identity in general so yeah occasionally tumbler does spill over into real life.

OwlFancier posted:

You're right it isn't. Though conceivably a name may be more than one syllable which is why third person pronouns exist. Consider it a deference to practicality on the part of the individual.

jivjov posted:

Do you have something against the idea of a group of people assuring all present that everyone is welcome?

jivjov posted:

SwimmingSpider posted:

the only arguments i ever see against neo-pronouns is "'they' already exists" "they're hard to remember", and "they're stupid", well:

1) "they" is perfectly suitable pronoun for most nonbinary people, but sometimes even that feels wrong for some others. nonbinary people aren't all the same so not all of them are gonna feel comfortable with the same things.

2) I've never seen a pronoun longer or more complicated than one syllable. Peopel are able to memorize entire texts. Putting the tiniest amount of effort into it you could memorize ten neo-pronouns in half an hour.

3) unless you're actively searching for them you're not going to find very many neo-pronoun users in your daily life. no one's forcing *you* to use these pronouns, just suck it up and respect the wishes of the maybe three people you might meet who use them.

jivjov posted:

Do you have something against the idea of a group of people assuring all present that everyone is welcome?

SedanChair posted:

Basic functioning in society without giving offense is not the same as working retail.

jivjov posted:

Do you have something against the idea of a group of people assuring all present that everyone is welcome?

SedanChair posted:

If somebody in real life demands to be called "xir" please get back to us here in the thread. Make sure you measure the single horn coming out of their forehead, as well.

blowfish posted:

Not in principle, but yes if it's a pointless exercise in intellectual masturbation and/or signalling you're one of the better, enlightened, ~tolerant~ people in a situation where it's completely out of context and serves no useful function.

twodot posted:

Asking me to remember and use a semi-unique pronoun on the basis that it allows me to avoid saying however many syllables their name has greater than the pronoun in situations where I would use a pronoun seems like an obvious lie. If they are shaping their gender identity to fit my convenience (seems unlikely in the first place) why not just use singular they?

Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:

I know somone who wanted to be referred to as a snow-leopard. It's not specifically a use of "xir," but I'd consider it enough of an analogue.