|
blowfish posted:loving retarded. Do we really need to include ableist slurs here? I totally get the stance of "why talk about gender inclusivity when it isn't relevant"...but there's no need for the slurs.
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 16:51 |
|
|
jivjov posted:Do we really need to include ableist slurs here?  I was wondering how long it would take for some brainless moron on the something awful forums to take offense to the word "retard" and unironically complain about ableism. Not that long, it turns out. Lichy posted:There's more than one way to do it. Yeah e.g. "in this meeting we aim to have a polite and fact-based discourse, you will be kicked out for personal attacks" which covers everything and everyone imaginable. Oh, and Lichy posted:Also my condolences.  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:50
|
|
I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
|
blowfish posted:Yeah e.g. "in this meeting we aim to have a polite and fact-based discourse, you will be kicked out for personal attacks" which covers everything and everyone imaginable. Doesn't mean the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:I know somone who wanted to be referred to as a snow-leopard. It's not specifically a use of "xir," but You're right, it isn't.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Doesn't mean the same thing. Name one example of a gender-based attack that isn't covered here. SedanChair posted:You're right, it isn't. Pedant, and intentionally missing the point.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
blowfish posted:4) in addition to being redundant and stupid and I think if you were to ask most people if they consider strict, binary definitions of gender in language more or less reinforcing of gender importance they'd probably say more. It's the exact same situation as people who oppose gay marriage because they believe that it openly detracts from the important of marriage as an institution because "People will be marrying their dogs, next!" If someone truly wants to weaken the stranglehold certain elements have over society there are very few ways of doing it that are better than diluting that stranglehold with non-rigid provisos.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:54
|
|
, special snowflake pronouns reinforce the importance of gender when we could instead be fighting to make gender unimportant to public life. Also unisex bathrooms are cool and if you don't think unisex bathrooms should be the end goal of Western Bathroom Civilisation you are dumb, a prude, or need professional help (but I am repeating myself).
|
blowfish posted:Name one example of a gender-based attack that isn't covered here. The first statement indicates a positive commitment to specifically the issue of ensuring gender and sexuality are not a barrier to debate. The second is very unspecific and doesn't really mean anything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
blowfish posted:I was wondering how long it would take for some brainless moron on the something awful forums to take offense to the word "retard" and unironically complain about ableism. So...slurs are totally cool with you then? What term do you use to refer to black people, if I may ask?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:You're right, it isn't. Would you indulge a person who wanted to be called a snow leopard? Is a person believing and feeling that they are not human fundamentally different than a person believing and feeling that they are genderfluid? Sulphuric Asshole fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
No.blowfish posted:Pedant, and intentionally missing the point. I ask for a real use of "xir" and somebody comes back with "snow leopard." Not accepting that is pedantry? We're talking about pronouns. But this isn't surprising, because everything that isn't white and straight and male and cis is the same to you. Your enemies. And now you want special rights not to conform to basic expectations of politeness in public. I mean, you already have those rights, but like all reactionaries what you really want is not to be criticized. As usual, reactionary bigots demand the most privileges and accommodations of all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:I ask for a real use of "xir" and somebody comes back with "snow leopard." Not accepting that is pedantry? We're talking about pronouns. Everything about this post is spot on and amazing. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 20:59
|
|
|
"Before we start this meeting I want to be absolutely clear: We will not tolerate any attacks on the gender of those present. Furthermore, we will permit no racial targeting of minority or majority members. Pejoratives regarding the physical characteristics of this meeting members including but not limited to Rodger's fat rear end, Douglas' palsied hand, and Pam's weird tits should be absolutely avoided. Additionally, management should refrain from throwing class trash at the non-salaried workers.."
The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Mar 28, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Everything about this post is spot on and amazing. Everything about this post is retarded and bad. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
I can't speak about "xir", but I know off hand of a few people who have used "ey" "em" "eir" which is just the "they" pronouns without the "th-". "They" is used far more often in my city's non-binary community.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Is a person believing and feeling that they are not human fundamentally different than a person believing and feeling that they are genderfluid? Yes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
Why?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:Why? Why can people not opt out of the human species? Gee I don't know.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:05
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:Why? I can't think of a single documented case of someone legitimately being "transspecies" or experiencing species dysphoria whereas gender identity, gender fluidity, and gender dysphoria are common, studied, and documented.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:Why? The latter would arguably be the default state of a human.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
The Kingfish posted:Why? Because gender is a very strange thing that has many elements that may or may not be culturally specific or even  (debate still rages) whereas anyone with a basic level of understanding of evolution and science knows that human beings are about as connected to snow leopards as we are to single cell protozoa living under the earth's crust.Granted some are more connected to the latter than we would like, as evidenced by this thread, but it's still generally accepted that a human is a human and a snow leopard is a snow leopard never never shall the two meet, in any sense.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:Why can people not opt out of the human species? Gee I don't know. Humans do share a a substantial amount of identical DNA with other animals, and also share a common ancestor. If you take that viewpoint, it would be easy to see why a person might identify as species-fluid.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:11
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:
There is no chill (in this paragraph). Ddraig posted:Granted some are more connected to the latter than we would like, as evidenced by this thread, but it's still generally accepted that a human is a human and a snow leopard is a snow leopard never never shall the two meet, in any sense. You wait until Crispr/Cas9 really gets here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:11
|
|
|
Lichy posted:You wait until Crispr/Cas9 really gets here. I look forward to it
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:12
|
|
|
Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Humans do share a a substantial amount of identical DNA with other animals, and also share a common ancestor. If you take that viewpoint, it would be easy to see why a person might identify as species-fluid. You do not sincerely believe this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:13
|
|
|
It is better to treat people how they would like to be treated if that causes no significant harm to you. I think gender fluidity is a thing, and that pronouns for non-binary genders will eventually catch on if their proponents can agree on a set of terminology to push. Is species fluidity a thing? Who knows, if someone sincerely identifies as a tiger its no skin off my nose. I would even go so far as to say that "curing" them is not worth the suffering and expense it would likely cause them. Then again, I think hoarders should be allowed to hoard if they don't live in an apartment or with kids, so what do I know. I think that the species thing is not the same as transgenderism, because while transgenderism at has some physical correlates, no way does a wolf-kin have a brain similar to a wolf's (except maybe feral children, those guys are probably wired very oddly). In general however, identity is a mental thing and not a physical, so lets just respect one another as human beings and do our things, as long as you aren't hurting people significantly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:23
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:You do not sincerely believe this. Some people do sincerely believe that they are trans-species, however.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:24
|
|
|
Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Some people do sincerely believe that they are trans-species, however. and some people sincerely want to marry their dogs but that doesn't make the slippery slope argument against gay marriage any less dumb
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Some people do sincerely believe that they are trans-species, however. It's not worth discussing, and it's certainly not worth dragging into a discussion about people with real problems in society, backed up by real clinical research.And it gets brought up every time like it was a legitimate issue, or a connected one. It's a deliberate tactic to make the very concept of being trans look absurd.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
furiouskoala posted:if their proponents can agree on a set of terminology to push. You have no idea what you're asking for. Also, your insistence that mental illness does not require treatment is rather interesting.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
jivjov posted:So...slurs are totally cool with you then? "black people" I guess? Saying friend of the family has become unacceptable (in english-speaking countries) due to specific historical circumstances to do with oppressing a wide group of people without justification beyond "because we can" like animals for a long time. Retard or moron did not become controversial until (mostly non-disabled  ) people with too much time on their hand started complaining, and is largely not controversial despite that because people with too much time on their hand complaining on some random other peoples' behalf is not particularly worth taking seriously by itself. OwlFancier posted:The first statement indicates a positive commitment to specifically the issue of ensuring gender and sexuality are not a barrier to debate. So basically because you don't like the second one you claim it does nothing, rather than being a catch-all that doesn't require a hour-long introduction about every aspect of sexism, racism, religious prejudice, and what-have-you. Good job.  SedanChair posted:I ask for a real use of "xir" and somebody comes back with "snow leopard." Not accepting that is pedantry? We're talking about pronouns. Anything beyond he,she,they is a special snowflake pronoun until proven otherwise and therefore functionally equivalent, do you not get this. I also don't think what you call basic expectations of politeness in public should exist in the way you imagine, do you not get this. In addition, your delusional ranting about the Sulphuric rear end in a top hat posted:Humans do share a a substantial amount of identical DNA with other animals, and also share a common ancestor. If you take that viewpoint, it would be easy to see why a person might identify as species-fluid. This is not how biology works. It is specifically not how species work.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
blowfish posted:Anything beyond he,she,they is a special snowflake pronoun And what the gently caress is wrong with being a "special snowflake", especially with regards to gender which has been snared by the gender binary for so long? What's wrong with anyone wanting to break out of that and try to self-define themselves?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
blowfish posted:So basically because you don't like the second one you claim it does nothing, rather than being a catch-all that doesn't require a hour-long introduction about every aspect of sexism, racism, religious prejudice, and what-have-you. Good job. What you posted initially is far more precise and explanatory, and takes barely any time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
blowfish posted:"black people" I guess? So...people don't like the use of the word 'friend of the family' so you don't use it because it is offensive. People don't like the use of the word 'retard' so you go ahead and use it even though it is offense. Your stance is internally inconsistent.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
furiouskoala posted:It is better to treat people how they would like to be treated if that causes no significant harm to you. I think gender fluidity is a thing, and that pronouns for non-binary genders will eventually catch on if their proponents can agree on a set of terminology to push. Is species fluidity a thing? Who knows, if someone sincerely identifies as a tiger its no skin off my nose. I would even go so far as to say that "curing" them is not worth the suffering and expense it would likely cause them. Then again, I think hoarders should be allowed to hoard if they don't live in an apartment or with kids, so what do I know. I think that the species thing is not the same as transgenderism, because while transgenderism at has some physical correlates, no way does a wolf-kin have a brain similar to a wolf's (except maybe feral children, those guys are probably wired very oddly). In general however, identity is a mental thing and not a physical, so lets just respect one another as human beings and do our things, as long as you aren't hurting people significantly. At this point you are talking about actual, diagnosable mentally ill people. If nothing else, you need to protect them from themselves to prevent inhuman treatment of people (or you subscribe to some wacky system of ethics where you just let people get eaten by tigers or get beaten with cattle prods and abandon all pretense of living in a civilised society I guess  ).You are also wrong about feral children, who have human brains except without the education and socialisation of their society during childhood, like pretty much everyone arguing about trans-species bullshit (not understanding biology is pretty much a prerequisite to not immediately dismissing the concept as insane). SedanChair posted:It's a deliberate tactic to make the very concept of being trans look absurd. You must have a persecution complex if you think that in this very D&D thread the topic is brought up to dehumanise ourselves and face to trans bloodshed. OwlFancier posted:What you posted initially is far more precise and explanatory, and takes barely any time. It also fails to cover every other way in which people could be discriminated against, or more relevantly every other way in which participants of the discussion could be personally attacked or the discussion derailed. It's useless single-issue focus in the wrong place. Krysmphoenix posted:And what the gently caress is wrong with being a "special snowflake", especially with regards to gender which has been snared by the gender binary for so long? What's wrong with anyone wanting to break out of that and try to self-define themselves? Why do we care about gender so much? If anything, we should make one standard english pronoun (if focusing on language) and give all power to the unisex toilet or something. Nobody should be required to care about other peoples genders.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
blowfish posted:Anything beyond he,she,they is a special snowflake pronoun until proven otherwise and therefore functionally equivalent, do you not get this. I also don't think what you call basic expectations of politeness in public should exist in the way you imagine, do you not get this. What I get is that everything that is not about your demands for special privileges is boring to you. But then everyone is expected to pay close attention, and accomodate your needs, because you find maintaining basic standards of politeness in public to be intolerable. So your special needs, your special snowflake requests, have the wonderful properties of being both trivial and of being rights you already have but are too bashful to exercise.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
Lichy posted:You have no idea what you're asking for. It can, it just depends on whether the treatment is worse than the illness. With hoarding, I think it just comes down to a difference in values. If a person wants to be treated of course they should get treatment, I just think there should be a very high bar to forcing someone into treatment and hoarding mostly comes down to a difference in values between the hoarder and mainstream society. If you value your old newspaper collection over having guests over and personal safety, that's not worth dragging you out of your home and imprisoning you in a mental institution over.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
jivjov posted:So...people don't like the use of the word 'friend of the family' so you don't use it because it is offensive. No, because the reasons people claim friend of the family or retard are supposed to be offensive and their context are completely different.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
SedanChair posted:What I get is that everything that is not about your demands for special privileges is boring to you. But then everyone is expected to pay close attention, and accomodate your needs, because you find maintaining basic standards of politeness in public to be intolerable. So your special needs, your special snowflake requests, have the wonderful properties of being both trivial and of being rights you already have but are too bashful to exercise. You should stop exercising your special privilege of completely missing the point and interpreting everything you do not like through the poo poo-stained lenses of your persecution complex-fuelled worldview.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
Krysmphoenix posted:And what the gently caress is wrong with being a "special snowflake", especially with regards to gender which has been snared by the gender binary for so long? What's wrong with anyone wanting to break out of that and try to self-define themselves? Because these types of self-definitions are entirely superficial?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 16:51 |
|
|
blowfish posted:You should stop exercising your special privilege of completely missing the point and interpreting everything you do not like through the poo poo-stained lenses of your persecution complex-fuelled worldview. I get all your points, I just think they're worthless and bigoted. Would you like to request more special privileges so you never have to know what people think of you?
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2016 21:43
|
|