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Shageletic posted:I don't think it was about sex, but about Matt having this completely insane secret life that he refused to speak up about to the detriment of her and Fogey's lives and careers. It was presented so poorly that that's the take people got from it though is the thing.
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Mar 28, 2016 21:24
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Shageletic posted:I don't think it was about sex, but about Matt having this completely insane secret life that he refused to speak up about to the detriment of her and Fogey's lives and careers. Really? I felt she was pissed because she thought he was cheating on her. Seriously it was piss poor and conveying that.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:23
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I'm thinking these Marvel shows would benefit from six episode arcs with some release time in between them.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:30
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Really? I felt she was pissed because she thought he was cheating on her. Seriously it was piss poor and conveying that. What made it weird was how later on when she was telling Foggy, she emphasized that Matt had a woman in his bed, but didn't mention Stick or that she was clearly hurt at all.
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Mar 28, 2016 22:56
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Lycus posted:What made it weird was how later on when she was telling Foggy, she emphasized that Matt had a woman in his bed, but didn't mention Stick or that she was clearly hurt at all. Yeah, that combined with the fact that the crusty as gently caress blind guy didn't give her pause but the second she saw Elektra her face looked like she wanted to cry. I think I'm going to watch the Frank in prison episode again. By far the pinnacle of the season. Whoever does casting should get a bonus for everyone except Foggy. I still felt bad for him this season though when Matt started making GBS threads on him like 4 times an episode. Also, how come no one at the hospital or in the final scene was like "Are we really fighting god drat ninjas now what the gently caress is wrong with this city?" It ruined my immersion that everyone took god drat ninjas in stride.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:21
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magiccarpet posted:I'm thinking these Marvel shows would benefit from six episode arcs with some release time in between them. That power resides in you, the viewer.
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Mar 29, 2016 00:21
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Yeah, that combined with the fact that the crusty as gently caress blind guy didn't give her pause but the second she saw Elektra her face looked like she wanted to cry. I was literally shouting "oh come ON" at the TV when Karen got all upset at Elektra in the bed. Even ignoring the fact that Stick was there, just the basics of how everything appeared: Elektra sitting up in bed but clearly reclined in a manner that suggests "I'm injured or otherwise clearly not feeling well". I think Matt was shirtless in the scene but even still...there was absolutely nothing to suggest that anything risqué or scandalous was taking place. To me it didn't make sense for Karen to react like she did, like "I'm not even going to bother asking any questions, I'm just gonna deliver this news and storm out". I mean, I get that she's tired of Matt's lies and fed up with his poo poo, but now that she's finally gotten a small (and, understandably very confusing no-context) peak at what he's up to...why suddenly decide she doesn't want to know anything more? At the very least you'd think she would be like "okay, you have to tell me what the gently caress is actually going on" quote:Also, how come no one at the hospital or in the final scene was like "Are we really fighting god drat ninjas now what the gently caress is wrong with this city?" It ruined my immersion that everyone took god drat ninjas in stride. You put into words something that I couldn't quite put my finger on, that was bothering me most the season. While I mostly enjoyed it, yeah, just how straightforward they played the ninjas was strange. I guess I shouldn't read too much into it, this IS the MCU and there's plenty of ridiculous things in it already, but it seemed out of place compared to the (relatively) more-grounded setting that Season 1 introduced. Like, when Matt, Elektra, and Stick are in that car fleeing from the Hand and all the ninjas are chasing them along the rooftops. The fact that they're shooting arrows at the car simultaneously was hilarious and infuriating. Did none of those guys have a loving gun on them? Hell, Matt is show multiple times catching arrows in flight; I'd like to see him do that with a bullet.
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Mar 29, 2016 01:09
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Also, how come no one at the hospital or in the final scene was like "Are we really fighting god drat ninjas now what the gently caress is wrong with this city?" It ruined my immersion that everyone took god drat ninjas in stride. It ruined your immersion that people who have seen a god drat wormhole open in the middle of Manhattan sky and aliens come pouring out of it to attack the city are utterly unphased by a bunch of ninjas at a hospital? I'd say the problem is you.
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Mar 29, 2016 01:15
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moths posted:Why didn't they just use the box on the child Black Sky that died? I question if Stick killed that child, now. We never saw it on screen. Originally I said "Oh, knowing Stick's character.. that thing is dead. Absolutely. No question." ... now we know that he kept Elektra, and she was Black Sky. I'd bet loving money that kid is in a dojo with that guy who was meditating in season 1 Stick talked to learning to be another murder drone. He doesn't seem to have changed much, I doubt they're the only two he's done this to. ED: And you know Matt would whine insanely if he told him the truth, and said "Yeah I kidnapped that walking super weapon and plan on isolating him in a cave in Tibet or something until he's trained." Telling him that he killed it would make him throw him out and not look into it more. So yeah. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not putting it past him now. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 01:18
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Well 10 months ago Netflix were looking at Punisher and a few others.... http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Marvel-Looking-Punisher-Blade-More-Netflix-Shows-72259.html Now with the whole gothy vampire vibe from the urn as someone did say yes it could be and someone else here said no it wasn't.... It isn't impossible we'll get to see Blade somewhere on th little screen.
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Mar 29, 2016 10:09
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enraged_camel posted:I don't think the Punisher story, as engaging as it was, had enough content to last an entire season. In fact, the main reason it was so engaging was because it was packed into four or five episodes. I agree, the Elektra/Hand stuff was just kinda bizarrely sequestered in its own corner of the show's universe. It felt like the series was a sitcom house with a line painted down the middle, with the Punisher, Fisk and the trial on one side and Elektra, Roxxon and the ninjas on the other, and for most of the show only Matt/Daredevil was allowed to cross the line. In the first season when Daredevil stumbled across weird poo poo it came up reasonably organically, as part of his overall efforts to fight organized crime and take down Wilson Fisk, and when it was no longer relevant he moved on so we didn't need to dwell on it. In this season these two tracks just kinda meandered alongside each other and the few times they crossed weren't nearly as interesting as they should've been.
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Mar 29, 2016 11:18
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The Elektra stuff felt mostly like a way to force Matt into ruining his firm and relationship with Foggy/Karen and set up the next season and other Marvel shows more than anything else.
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Mar 29, 2016 13:58
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I suspect that after people saw NYC get hosed over by giant interdimensional worm thing in Avengers, ninjas are pretty pedestrian.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:08
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magiccarpet posted:Lol a reporter ordered two cops off a crime scene to walk a secretary home Yea at that point I thought the editor for the Bulletin was a bad guy and those were corrupt cops who were gonna kill her.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:39
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Doctor Butts posted:Yea at that point I thought the editor for the Bulletin was a bad guy and those were corrupt cops who were gonna kill her. The editor was shown to not be the Fisk plant last season in the slo-mo raid montage, so I had no inclination to expect him to randomly be a bad guy. Also, Brett's been consistently on the good guys' side in spirit, so no worries there either.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:43
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A lot of people thought this season was going to be dumber than it turned out to be.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:45
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Oh, and another thing I wasn't a big fan of: Matt revealing to Karen that he's DD. I know in the comics everyone finds out, but I would have liked him to hold on to it a little longer, especially considering that it looks like Fisk is putting 2 and 2 together as well.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:53
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Require More Fire posted:Oh, and another thing I wasn't a big fan of: Matt revealing to Karen that he's DD. I know in the comics everyone finds out, but I would have liked him to hold on to it a little longer, especially considering that it looks like Fisk is putting 2 and 2 together as well. (Comic book spoilers and S3 speculation): Depends on whether they decide to run Born Again straight, ie Karen gives up Matt's id (probably not as a result of drug use, though), or if they do it the way they're hinting with the Kingpin figuring it out on his own. Or maybe both? Fisk thinks it's Murdock but he isn't sure, so he grabs Karen and forces her to confirm it?
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Mar 29, 2016 17:14
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The latest episode of Kevin Smith's vidcast has no Kevin Smith (I know a lot of people don't like him/his stuff, and he's in Vancouver filming The Flash at the moment) but does feature Marc Bernardin interviewing Lexi Alexander, who directed The Punisher: Warzone about among other things her career (martial artist, actress, stunt-woman, director essentially) and the latest season of Daredevil. She echoes a lot of people's thoughts here regarding it (prefers The Punisher side, disliked ninja fights) but it has some interesting tidbits so it's worth a listen. They start talking about Daredevil about the 30 minute mark I if recall (might be 35 minutes, not sure).
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Mar 29, 2016 17:30
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Radish posted:The Elektra stuff felt mostly like a way to force Matt into ruining his firm and relationship with Foggy/Karen and set up the next season and other Marvel shows more than anything else. Tell me about. Most frustrating thing this season is that Matt could just say what the gently caress is going on to people who know who he is, so they at least would understand and cover. "I uh blew you off Foggy 'cause uh I had things to do, serious things right?" and not "HOLY poo poo MAN, I WAS SAVING THE CITY FROM NINJAS.. CUT ME SOME loving SLACK!" This happened even after a moment (which I thought was going to resolve the dumb sub-plot) where Foggy saw ninjas assault the Goddamn hospital and found out the next day people died and such, but nope, that didn't even blip the radar. Also all Foggy's whining about Daredevil "beating strangers" seems to go straight the gently caress out the window when those strangers are zombie ninjas. ED: I want a parody now where literal nazi zombies invade the city lead by frozen mechahitler, and Daredevil is actively fighting them and refuses to tell anyone that he's doing so while Foggy goes "You can't just go around punching nazis in the faaaaace, what about the law?" Also it cuts the whole "Street justice or law justice?" debate in half when, again, you're trucking around both with and against murderninjas. Long story short I kind of wish they said "OK this was one of the far more silly 80s plot lines, maybe we should not go there with the show that repeatedly got it's highest praise for being grounded for a comic show?" jng2058 posted:(Comic book spoilers and S3 speculation): Depends on whether they decide to run Born Again straight, ie Karen gives up Matt's id (probably not as a result of drug use, though), or if they do it the way they're hinting with the Kingpin figuring it out on his own. Or maybe both? Fisk thinks it's Murdock but he isn't sure, so he grabs Karen and forces her to confirm it? I have another theory on that. I don't think the Kingpin will be returning as a main season-long villain on Daredevil. I think the Kingpin is being groomed to be the season 1 Punisher villain. It sounds odd on paper but makes sense thematically. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 17:38
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Can you imagine people's confusion if they produced Blade and went back to the original comics Blade?
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Mar 29, 2016 17:51
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That's a wooden knife, huh?
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Mar 29, 2016 17:51
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The Punisher is really weirdly written. We have a good actor who does the Punisher well. But the way they write this sob story for Frank, and the way he's always talking talking talking. it doesn't feel like Frank.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:02
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Affi posted:The Punisher is really weirdly written. We have a good actor who does the Punisher well. But the way they write this sob story for Frank, and the way he's always talking talking talking. it doesn't feel like Frank. That's why it worked out so well. The traditional comics Punisher is pretty one-dimensional and boring.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:23
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Require More Fire posted:Oh, and another thing I wasn't a big fan of: Matt revealing to Karen that he's DD. I know in the comics everyone finds out, but I would have liked him to hold on to it a little longer, especially considering that it looks like Fisk is putting 2 and 2 together as well. Dunno I liked that I mean how many times has him being Daredevil endangered her over the last two seasons? At least she has a heads up this way.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:27
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The only thing that makes sense is that there was a Post It in the writers' room that said "MURDOCK-NELSON CONFLICT", and they just tried to write towards that, which clearly failed. I mean, it's not implausible that Foggy would get fed up, but Murdock and Karen's behaviour was so weird that I'd probably gtfo, if people acted like that around me.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:45
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Blazing Ownager posted:
Huh. Interesting angle. But the whole "You think there's chaos now? Wait until I get out" threat directly to Matt, to say nothing of the whole "Get me everything we have on Matt Murdock" sure seems to be pointing directly to either Born Again, or at least Daredevil vs Kingpin Round Two in some respect. The whole Punisher and Kingpin threat-counterthreat as Frank leaves jail isn't as direct as the Fisk v Murdock stuff later on. Could be both. If DD S3 happens first, you could do Born Again, then (presuming Fisk survives) still have him as the Big Bad for Punisher S1.
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Mar 29, 2016 18:53
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RareAcumen posted:It was presented so poorly that that's the take people got from it though is the thing. I took as sort of a "Really, Matt? This is why you miss court appearances?" sort of thing. It didn't bother me that it was left open to interpretation. Karen was most likely all "Spare me. I don't even want to know" and that's how the scene played to me. jng2058 posted:Huh. Interesting angle. But the whole "You think there's chaos now? Wait until I get out" threat directly to Matt, to say nothing of the whole "Get me everything we have on Matt Murdock" sure seems to be pointing directly to either Born Again, or at least Daredevil vs Kingpin Round Two in some respect. The whole Punisher and Kingpin threat-counterthreat as Frank leaves jail isn't as direct as the Fisk v Murdock stuff later on. Seconding this. I think it'll come down to a combination of Fisk gradually figuring it out and Karen already knowing. Maybe she echoes what Urich did in the comics and starts to write about it but doesn't. Wilson obviously remembers Karen from when she visited his mother and all that too so maybe he beats it out of her or something. Does he know she's the one that killed Wesley? It sure looks like they're setting up a version of Born Again in some fashion, even if it's not 100% faithful to the comic. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 19:09
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BiggerBoat posted:I took as sort of a "Really, Matt? This is why you miss court appearances?" sort of thing. It didn't bother me that it was left open to interpretation. Karen was most likely all "Spare me. I don't even want to know" and that's how the scene played to me. The scene started out that way for sure, but her facial expression in the end definitely said "holy poo poo..."
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Mar 29, 2016 19:14
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I think Foggy had good reason to want out of Matt's crazy poo poo life that he still lied to him about at the detriment of their profession and client for no good reason. However he definitely came across as super passive aggressive with his "why won't you convince me not to leave  puppy face."
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Mar 29, 2016 19:18
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Yeah, it definitely sounded more like a conversation between ex-lovers than ex-partners. Anyway, now that Foggy works at the big law firm, I hope we see him in Jessica Jones season 2. 
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Mar 29, 2016 19:22
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A whole season of Foggy and Hogarth just rolling their eyes and going "Gifted vigilantes are such a goddamn pain, am I right or am I right?"
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Mar 29, 2016 19:23
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enraged_camel posted:Anyway, now that Foggy works at the big law firm, I hope we see him in Jessica Jones season 2. Probably will. I'm also anticipating that the way they'll reconcile in DD S3 is that Foggy will encounter some legal/ethical obstacle that requires "extralegal" help to solve and realize Matt has a point.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:37
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I'm hoping it's the other way round and Matt need's Foggy's help. The show's constant bleating that the law is great and we should go by it kind of falls flat if it only goes the other way round and Matt has to circumvent it at will to gently caress people up, instead of occasionally using it to do so. Him giving that one cop the Punisher's arrest already feels off to me because of it.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:54
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tsob posted:I'm hoping it's the other way round and Matt need's Foggy's help. The show's constant bleating that the law is great and we should go by it kind of falls flat if it only goes the other way round and Matt has to circumvent it at will to gently caress people up, instead of occasionally using it to do so. Him giving that one cop the Punisher's arrest already feels off to me because of it. Well he did that so people will, hopefully, believe in the justice system instead of putting their faith in just leaving vigilantes to sort out the crime problem with their own two hands like Frank has been doing.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:57
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RareAcumen posted:Well he did that so people will, hopefully, believe in the justice system instead of putting their faith in just leaving vigilantes to sort out the crime problem with their own two hands like Frank has been doing. Exactly. He had to fake the public in to believing it because Frank came along and made vigilantism look bad. The cops and law couldn't get any kind of real win on their own so he had to step in.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:00
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tsob posted:Exactly. He had to fake the public in to believing it because Frank came along and made vigilantism look bad. The cops and law couldn't get any kind of real win on their own so he had to step in. Are you sure he made vigilantism look bad? A significant portion of the people they interviewed for jury duty said he's a hero.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:01
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tsob posted:Exactly. He had to fake the public in to believing it because Frank came along and made vigilantism look bad. The cops and law couldn't get any kind of real win on their own so he had to step in. I think it was the straight murdering that was more to blame than making vigilantism look bad.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:02
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The problem is that like in Batman, the nice guy let the law handle it because vigilantes can't be trusted to be judge, jury, and executioner mantra is constantly proven wrong. Frank was totally right in context of the Daredevil universe since the people that Matt stopped just kept killing people while the ones that were killed by someone else did not. The show really needs some examples of Matt's ideology of letting the law do its thing actually working. Fisk is already doing exactly the same thing with nothing stopping him from manipulating the system via bribery and the Hand was only stopped when they were all murdered by Elektra, Stick, and Frank. I know that was partly to make Matt question his ideology but there's nothing on the other side to help him reaffirm it. The first season I felt had a good mix of Matt acting extra-judiciously but also using the legal system to gently caress over Fisk and regular people also being involved in taking him down. This one was pretty much vigilantes doing everything while the law was largely powerless to do anything when it wasn't being corrupt as in the case of Reyes or everyone in the prison system. I want to root for the guy who says that the crazy psychopath is wrong to kill people but it's hard when the show is making a clear case that in context of that specific setting it is not. The first half of season 2 was actually doing a decent job of that balance but near the end it swung in exactly the opposite direction especially as Matt started to largely ignore his friends killing people. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 20:04
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BiggerBoat posted:
I'm betting he will before the end of the season. 
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Mar 29, 2016 20:21
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