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I'm too lazy to crawl through all the subtext discussion, but I'll agree with what someone else said that Conroy acted the hell out of that scene. I'll also add that when I heard joker was in the game a small animated character appeared above my head making resigned jerk-off motions while a sad trumpet played wah wah noises but the implementation has been frankly ace thus far. As for the game structure itself it seems really... busy? It feels like there are almost too many missions and side quests and collectibles and so on. It's gotten to the point where when the Riddler calls I just imagine someone saying in a thick slavic accent "Hey Cousin Batko! Let's go out and see some big american titties what do you say??"
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Mar 29, 2016 06:01
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Scaramouche posted:It's gotten to the point where when the Riddler calls I just imagine someone saying in a thick slavic accent "Hey Cousin Batko! Let's go out and see some big american titties what do you say??" That's making me imagine Batman and his Rogues Gallery going out bowling. 
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Mar 29, 2016 06:12
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That sounds like an episode of Batman '66 that should've been made. They go surfing and boxing, at least.
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Mar 29, 2016 06:13
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Scaramouche posted:I'm too lazy to crawl through all the subtext discussion, but I'll agree with what someone else said that Conroy acted the hell out of that scene. Spot on. Regarding this scene, it made me want ro continue playing. It seemed like too much, I wanted it to be a hallucination, and I wanted to progress in hopes of resurrecting Oracle. She's a good character. Female characters are universally poo poo on in this game. I feel like the making GBS threads on them decisions were all made and then a writer was asked to tweak the dialogue a bit to make them less damselly, or to handwave that aspect. They tried?
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Mar 29, 2016 06:14
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VolticSurge posted:That's making me imagine Batman and his Rogues Gallery going out bowling. Two-Face flubs his release and gets a 7-10 split. He can't pick it up because he can only choose one... Joker shoots the other pin with his revolver, makes a pun about "SPARE"ing everyone from the cliche duality crap. Somebody, write a 66-style Batman:TAS as soon as possible.
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Mar 29, 2016 06:16
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death .cab for qt posted:Two-Face flubs his release and gets a 7-10 split. He can't pick it up because he can only choose one... Joker shoots the other pin with his revolver, makes a pun about "SPARE"ing everyone from the cliche duality crap. Meanwhile,Jason sits in the corner and bitches about everyone ignoring him while Firefly keeps trying to set his balls on fire.
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Mar 29, 2016 06:24
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And there's a kid at a birthday party a few lanes down named Terry who is bowling the exact same frames as Bruce
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Mar 29, 2016 07:11
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Waffleman_ posted:I need to catch up on the LP, but here's a bit of Joker news, I thought the thread would appreciate (read:groan): I bet it's gonna be an old-school bait-and-switch type thing, like those old "BATMAN DIES IN THIS ISSUE" type covers, where it turns out it's actually just a robot/illusion/innocent nobody dressed in a Batman costume.
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Mar 29, 2016 07:32
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CzarChasm posted:I mean, you seem to be having a good time, is it actually enjoyable, or are you making the best of a bad situation? I don't like hate-LPing. It's why I don't really want to play Arkham Origins: Blackgate, it's not much fun. I really do enjoy this game! The combat is stronger than in Arkham City, predator sections have more options and more dangers. The Bat-tank is a pretty good exercise in prioritization at higher difficulties. I just feel like the story takes a massive dump at various points and I don't know why. And sure, STORIES IN MY COMIC BOOK GAME, but I was kinda expecting better I guess. Spatula City posted:My problem with all this is that Batman seems to have aggressively grabbed the Idiot Ball for most of the game so far (excuse me for the TVtropes term, but it's one of the few I like). He should suspect that he's been exposed to fear gas, and OBVIOUSLY he also knows the Joker disease is loving with his mind. And yet he's utterly convinced Barbara is totally, for real, dead. and of course it's all about how he's failed. And of course both Robin and Nightwing will offer to help, and Batman will be like "IT TOO DANGEROUS" even though Scarecrow's actions have made it clear they're already under threat. This version of Batman is a goddamned moron. Is that what Rocksteady was going for? I mean, most versions of Batman I've read would not be dumb enough to fall into the traps Scarecrow and the Arkham Knight have set for Batman. I guess when it comes to video games, because there's a motivation to stretch the game out as long as possible, it's much easier to have Batman repeatedly screw up. Cutscene Incompetence Syndrome is real, friends. Batman is far from done making bad Bat-decisions tonight. Also as for the Alfred bit, at this point nobody knows Bruce Wayne is Batman. At least, the Arkham Knight seems to? Oracle/Barbara Gordon isn't exactly a known Batman associate, but she's not someone who would give Bruce Wayne's identity away. Kidnapping Alfred Pennyworth, Bruce Wayne's butler? Different story.
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Mar 29, 2016 08:01
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I was kinda hoping that BatJoker would've just started snapping necks... or spines so none of them could have walked again, it could be a little nod to Joker paralyzing Oracle. At least that's what I would've done for that one part to really hammer home Scarecrow saying how brutal Batman became.
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Mar 29, 2016 08:20
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death .cab for qt posted:Two-Face flubs his release and gets a 7-10 split. He can't pick it up because he can only choose one... Joker shoots the other pin with his revolver, makes a pun about "SPARE"ing everyone from the cliche duality crap. Did you watch The Brave and the Bold?
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Mar 29, 2016 14:11
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Am I wrong, or wasn't there a TAS episode where Barbara got killed, Gordon found out, and Batman had to deal with the fallout? Seems like they're cribbing a lot from that episode.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:53
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Yes, Over the Edge. And not only is all that you said true, it was a Scarecrow hallucination the whole time.
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Mar 29, 2016 14:55
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More specifically it was Barbara's hallucination, her greatest fear was what would happen if she died without her Father knowing. When she does try to tell him (With Batman's understanding if not approval) he stops her and makes a cagey statement about how she's her own woman and can make her own decisions while also sort of slyly implying he already figured it out because he is a police detective.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:11
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I guess I'll continue being a bastard in this thread but that scene really did nothing to or for me, apart from Batman's perfectly delivered lines. She shoots herself - so what? She's a character, her role in the story already was to give Batman some motivation (and sure, there's plenty wrong with that, but nothing new or changed by the suicide scene - or nothing that couldn't be chalked up to shallow characterization since, again, comics) and it happens. It's not an especially gruesome or emotional death either; at least by game standards. Guess what I'm saying that I don't really see how this scene is worse than what we've seen so far. It's pointless grimdark but that's the Arkham series MO. And I honestly can't start taking a story about a guy who dresses up as a cute fluffy animal in order to scare people seriously on account of it.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:12
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anilEhilated posted:And I honestly can't start taking a story about a guy who dresses up as a cute fluffy animal in order to scare people seriously on account of it. We need a Batman that dresses up as a sugar glider. Okay, yeah, they aren't technically bats, who cares.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:15
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Well, Riddler was technically right with his flying squirrel comment: that's the rodent that glides.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:17
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dscruffy1 posted:I don't like hate-LPing. It's why I don't really want to play Arkham Origins: Blackgate, it's not much fun. I really do enjoy this game! The combat is stronger than in Arkham City, predator sections have more options and more dangers. The Bat-tank is a pretty good exercise in prioritization at higher difficulties. I just feel like the story takes a massive dump at various points and I don't know why. And sure, STORIES IN MY COMIC BOOK GAME, but I was kinda expecting better I guess. Scruffy, you say that the story takes a massive dump sometimes, and I can definitely see that so far. Are there any points in the story that you would say are actually good? Or does that game entirely hinge on absolutely fun gameplay and the story is only ever, at best, okay?
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Mar 29, 2016 16:15
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Sir Potato posted:Scruffy, you say that the story takes a massive dump sometimes, and I can definitely see that so far. The story is generally better in its set pieces, like the blimps that just got finished. There's another one coming up that I feel like is done pretty well. I also like the final confrontation, though not the ending because oh man this ending sucks. Though I will say that for those, the gameplay is twisted in ways that makes it interesting. Something that may not have come across in the final blimp fight, I had to manually pick those guys up off the floor to continue the beatdowns  Much like the bridge with Firefly in Arkham Origins, the game is better when it's focused. Sure, there's still tons of poo poo to do around Gotham, but when the story focuses on what's at hand it tends to handle the characterizations and relationships better. And even when it's building off of some idiot plot point, it still manages to come through fairly well.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:24
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I could get behind the idea that they're telling a story of the breaking down of Bruce Wayne, and how his need to have total control of his city is putting him in this awful situation, but the execution seems... misguided. The issue is that Batman is the POV character, so you're basically taking all these bad decisions and dumping them onto the player. Other characters get poo poo on by the writing, because the writing has to be all about Bruce. I think this game would actually have been really well served by regularly changing up which character you're playing as. I mean, they already tease it with the under-used team up stuff. But if you got to see the same story from the point of view of Nightwing trying to help, or as Barbara gathering intel, or as Catwoman poking around in the places Bats can't get to, you could flesh out the other characters and ALSO give a better perspective on how all this poo poo is affecting Bruce. Like, imagine the exact same setup, but instead of Catwoman just sitting around bored waiting to be rescued, you got to play as her sneaking around in Riddler's poo poo, solving her own puzzles while Eddie bitches about how those puzzles aren't FOR HER PLEASE STOP THAT, and commenting on how Batman is looking more and more deranged each time he comes back.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:10
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Tendales posted:Like, imagine the exact same setup, but instead of Catwoman just sitting around bored waiting to be rescued, you got to play as her sneaking around in Riddler's poo poo, solving her own puzzles while Eddie bitches about how those puzzles aren't FOR HER PLEASE STOP THAT, and commenting on how Batman is looking more and more deranged each time he comes back. We get pretty close to exactly that as a DLC campaign.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:47
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Batman must have the pattern recognition of a child, or at this point he'd be taking a picture every time he sees something weird, sending it to Alfred, and going 'Okay, what is actually going on in front of me?'. Scarecrow is inundating the place with toxin, he's seen that the chemical guy was helping him develop new strains, and he's been doused with the fear juice every time he's interacted with Scarecrow. I mean, he has in the past said to his helper 'I got a dose of feat gas, I was out of it for a while', you'd think he could ask Alfred 'he's messing with my perception again, tell me what I'm actually looking at here'. Edit: also who is this Metamorpho character that gets referenced in regards to this chemical magnate guy? I've never heard his name before with my rather casual osmosis of comic-dom.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:55
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Geomancing posted:Batman must have the pattern recognition of a child Well, you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:07
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Geomancing posted:Batman must have the pattern recognition of a child, or at this point he'd be taking a picture every time he sees something weird, sending it to Alfred, and going 'Okay, what is actually going on in front of me?'. Scarecrow is inundating the place with toxin, he's seen that the chemical guy was helping him develop new strains, and he's been doused with the fear juice every time he's interacted with Scarecrow. I mean, he has in the past said to his helper 'I got a dose of feat gas, I was out of it for a while', you'd think he could ask Alfred 'he's messing with my perception again, tell me what I'm actually looking at here'. How would he know Alfred's response isn't a hallucination as well? Night10194 posted:Well, you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Hammer a nail.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:26
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It's worse than that; he should recognise that Scarecrow doses him every time, then think about what just happened in the airship and say "I'm retiring right this second." Nightwing, Robin, Azrael, Batgirl, Batwoman, Commissioner Gordon's people, he's supposed to be smart enough to recognise that his greatest fear is literally coming true and he should be doing whatever it takes to prevent that. That kind of black-and-white thinking is what he's known for in this series, he should be able to say "These people might die doing the right thing, but if I take literally any more gas I will be choosing to rebirth an even worse Joker" and STOP THERE. It's not just that he's blindly following his guilt over Oracle's kidnapping, it's that he's suddenly decided that Joker-with-Bruce-Wayne's-money-and-Batman's-skill-set is somehow less terrifying than letting a whole team of people Scarecrow wouldn't plan for just kick the poo poo out of the lunatic instead. "Oh no, one of my allies might get hurt!" doesn't hold any water when "All of my allies will die at my hand" is the alternative, seeing as how he hasn't even properly briefed them on his situation. Hell, he hasn't even told them he's hallucinating the Joker! I get that they're doing Babby's First Critique of Batman, but it utterly fails when this Batman is a twisted version that barely even resembles any other Batman, worse than all of them (including Nolan's trilogy narcissist) except at beating up/terrorising mooks. It's like if you called Superman a terrible, selfish person purely by looking at Smallville. The only interesting thing to do with such an incompetent Batman is to show the rest of his team desperately making up for his shortcomings behind his back, because "a group of infinitely-funded clinically insane convicts were confronted by a similar insane lunatic who also has infinite funding, the world burns around them" is not actually as interesting to experience in slow motion as they think it is.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:28
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Geomancing posted:also who is this Metamorpho character that gets referenced in regards to this chemical magnate guy? I've never heard his name before with my rather casual osmosis of comic-dom. Some guy who he tried to have killed for being into his daughter, I think. 
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Mar 29, 2016 22:29
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Isn't that the guy whose origin story is he got shot with four different alien rayguns at once, turning him into four different aliens?
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Mar 29, 2016 22:30
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Geomancing posted:Batman must have the pattern recognition of a child, or at this point he'd be taking a picture every time he sees something weird, sending it to Alfred, and going 'Okay, what is actually going on in front of me?'. Scarecrow is inundating the place with toxin, he's seen that the chemical guy was helping him develop new strains, and he's been doused with the fear juice every time he's interacted with Scarecrow. I mean, he has in the past said to his helper 'I got a dose of feat gas, I was out of it for a while', you'd think he could ask Alfred 'he's messing with my perception again, tell me what I'm actually looking at here'. They did this in a Batman Beyond episode; Terry was trying to fight a guy and Bruce had to tell him when to swing, when to dodge, when to stop running right the gently caress now because you're about to go off a cliff edge, etc. Insert some conveniently-timed comms interference for added drama.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:35
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Given how much the Arkham series loves their "Batman trips balls" moments, I imagine Spellbinder would be a shoo-in if they ever did Arkham Beyond. Or that one psychic guy that Terry managed to beat on his own in a pretty cool fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkD8w05afsk
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Mar 29, 2016 22:39
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:They did this in a Batman Beyond episode; Terry was trying to fight a guy and Bruce had to tell him when to swing, when to dodge, when to stop running right the gently caress now because you're about to go off a cliff edge, etc. Insert some conveniently-timed comms interference for added drama. Ah, yes, the Spellbinder guy! That was actually a good episode. Some of the stuff he made people hallucinate was awful, like the poor woman who started seeing everything as bugs.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:40
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Speedball posted:Isn't that the guy whose origin story is he got shot with four different alien rayguns at once, turning him into four different aliens? Not in any continuity I'm aware of. In classic DC he was exposed to the Orb of Ra which turned him into what he is. In the DCAU he was exposed to a gas by Stagg because he wanted to kill him for proposing to his daughter.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:42
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Kurieg posted:Not in any continuity I'm aware of. In classic DC he was exposed to the Orb of Ra which turned him into what he is. In the DCAU he was exposed to a gas by Stagg because he wanted to kill him for proposing to his daughter. Aaaaah, I was thinking of Ultra, the Multi-Alien. Who looks similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_the_Multi-Alien Don't ask me why having a bird's leg lets him fly.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:45
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I read this game's Batman as more affected by Joker/toxin than he lets on. His irrational behavior matches up with the affects of the toxin, including his distrust/deception of various allies. The brutality of the airship climax is way easier to feel while playing.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:45
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I'd be down for a hyper competent Batman or Campy happy Batman after this mess. You can only have so much refusal to accept help Batman before it wears thin. "I'll handle it." *Bane breaks out of restraints and derails a train* "It's under control." *Poison Ivy's new gigantic plant starts spreading mushroom spores that grow out of people.* "Stay where you are, I'll deal with this myself." *The undead rise from their graves hungry for the flesh of the living.* Really in the mood for either honest/realistic Batman who starts off with 'Chemical weapon? There's no way he's using the Ace Chemical building to produce i- You've got to be kidding, really?' or "I don't need your help." *later* 'Nightwing, now!' *Nightwing bursts through the window and lands on two thugs.* 'Thought you didn't need my help?' "I don't, but I do enjoy having company."
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Mar 29, 2016 22:59
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Given how much the Arkham series loves their "Batman trips balls" moments, I imagine Spellbinder would be a shoo-in if they ever did Arkham Beyond. Spellbinder would be good to do Scarecrow-like levels like from Asylum. Hell, have Mad Stan take the place of Anarky. Yeah, he's sort of a joke and a parody of that sort of extremism, but with his proclivity for pyrotechnics he's still a credible threat to people. Inque could have a fight like Copperhead's, Venom thugs could be using slappers instead of full injector rigs. Jokerz I'd like to see just be random street thugs. The Royal Flush Gang would have a Most Wanted sidequest of theirs, Stalker could show up as a frenemy, splicers making a new lab as a sidequest or maybe just stand in for Enforcers/Martial Artists depending on their animal DNA, etc. No Return of the Joker stuff since that seems to be what's turning people off, but a few familiar faces from the original series would be nice. drat it, now it feels like I should write up a prospectus and start looking for investors :|
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Mar 29, 2016 23:24
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Kurieg posted:Not in any continuity I'm aware of. In classic DC he was exposed to the Orb of Ra which turned him into what he is. In the DCAU he was exposed to a gas by Stagg because he wanted to kill him for proposing to his daughter. Stagg tried to have him killed in the Original Comic as well and the Orb saved him.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:21
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Vicissitude posted:Spellbinder would be good to do Scarecrow-like levels like from Asylum. Hell, have Mad Stan take the place of Anarky. Yeah, he's sort of a joke and a parody of that sort of extremism, but with his proclivity for pyrotechnics he's still a credible threat to people. Inque could have a fight like Copperhead's, Venom thugs could be using slappers instead of full injector rigs. Jokerz I'd like to see just be random street thugs. The Royal Flush Gang would have a Most Wanted sidequest of theirs, Stalker could show up as a frenemy, splicers making a new lab as a sidequest or maybe just stand in for Enforcers/Martial Artists depending on their animal DNA, etc. No Return of the Joker stuff since that seems to be what's turning people off, but a few familiar faces from the original series would be nice. Ah man, I forgot how much I liked Beyond.
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Mar 30, 2016 03:41
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dscruffy1 posted:Also as for the Alfred bit, at this point nobody knows Bruce Wayne is Batman. If I were Batman, I'd be concerned with random thugs identifying Alfred from the holographic video feed that pops every time they have a chat on speakerphorearm.
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Mar 30, 2016 04:25
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Espresso Steampunk posted:If I were Batman, I'd be concerned with random thugs identifying Alfred from the holographic video feed that pops every time they have a chat on speakerphorearm. When Batman brings that up, the eyes of his cowl change to a glowing white. It seems to be only him that's able to see it.
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Mar 30, 2016 04:34
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Kurieg posted:Not in any continuity I'm aware of. In classic DC he was exposed to the Orb of Ra which turned him into what he is. In the DCAU he was exposed to a gas by Stagg because he wanted to kill him for proposing to his daughter. Metamorpho is actually one of those "looks like a goof, has the powers of a god" kind of characters. His moniker of the "element man" indicates he can turn into any basic element, which is almost never actually done in the books. E.g. surrounded by bad guys? Surprise I'm 200lbs of Polonium, enjoy your slow lingering death poo poo lords.
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Mar 30, 2016 05:54
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