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gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Anidav posted:

UNIVERSITY graduates may have to start paying their loans back sooner after a report revealed many students will never earn an income high enough to repay their HELP debts.
A Grattan Institute report has found that the government could claw back an extra $500 million a year, and even more over time, if it lowered the income threshold that students start repaying their loans.
At the moment students repay their Higher Education Loans Program (HELP) and VET FEE-HELP loans once they start earning $54,186.
If this was reduced to $42,000, this would immediately increase the number of people repaying their debt by 50 per cent.
The report’s author Andrew Norton suggests that the HELP (formerly known as HECS) program has become unsustainable and without change, the ballooning cost would put teaching and research at risk of cuts.
The annual bill for HELP loans has reached $7.8 billion and 20 per cent is considered “bad debt” that will never be repaid. In 2014/15, this equated to about $1.6 billion a year.
“Interest subsidies on outstanding debt add $200 million a year to HELP’s costs, but would be five times higher if interest rates return to previous levels,” Mr Norton said in a statement.
Education and Training Minister Simon Birmingham acknowledged the problem when asked whether the government would consider the proposal.

“The costs to taxpayers of higher education have, over recent years, grown dramatically,” Mr Birmingham said in a statement to news.com.au.
This was partly driven by the removal of caps on the number of students allowed to study at public universities in 2012. The introduction of the “demand driven” system allowed more students to study at universities.
Mr Birmingham said taxpayer funding had increased by 59 per cent since 2009, compared to 29 per cent growth in nominal GDP over the same period of time.
“Funding of university students has, essentially, grown at twice the rate of the economy.”
The government is also considering collecting student debt from those who have died and leave estates worth more than $100,000.
“I welcome all ideas from the sector, experts and students on how to make university funding sustainable as I continue to consult widely on higher education reform,” Mr Birmingham said when asked about the reforms.
Mr Norton said a major cause of HELP’s problems was the growing proportion of graduates who work part-time.


“But most part-time jobs earn less than the current threshold,” Mr Norton said in a statement.
Adding to this problem is the fact that students completing courses at TAFE and other vocational courses are also now eligible for HELP loans, and these students are even less likely than university graduates to earn enough money to start repaying their loans.
The federal government planned to extend VET FEE-HELP to private colleges but there were reports this could be dropped.
However, when asked whether the plan would be dropped, Vocational Education and Skills Minister Scott Ryan said the Coalition would redesign the VET FEE-HELP scheme for 2017, following extensive consultation with the sector.
“We have already taken more than a dozen measures to crack down on vocational education providers who are flouting regulations and acting unethically,” Mr Ryan said in a statement.
“The VET FEE-HELP scheme, introduced by Labor, was demand driven, uncapped and had insufficient student protections in place.
“The original scheme opened the floodgates to shonky training providers and predatory brokers to take advantage of the system.”
He said the Coalition was committed to redesigning the VET FEE-HELP system to better serve the needs of all Australians.

I wonder what the increase in funding per student has been since 2009. Seems a bit misleading to whinge about it doubling compared to GDP if the number of students has doubled.

What they should do (assuming abolishing HECS entirely is off the table) is means test HECS and if your parents have earned less than a certain amount over the past couple of years you don't incur a HECS debt at all.

I guess NZ is too closely tied to Australia to be much use as a HECS haven when I graduate right?

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Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Amazingly I bet they haven't considered the the knock-on effects of targeting lower income earners. For some bizarro reason these right-wing bootstraps people must think that you can adjust who has to pay X and magically all this money comes floating in.

I hope they aren't holding their breath WRT people overseas paying back HECS.

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Recoome posted:

Amazingly I bet they haven't considered the the knock-on effects of targeting lower income earners. For some bizarro reason these right-wing bootstraps people must think that you can adjust who has to pay X and magically all this money comes floating in.

I don't think it's a rational response, it's about externalizing the poo poo they know they're in for, and somehow they'll never have pay for anything themselves. Blaming poors for the state of the economy is just a bonus.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
fuckkin poors should just get a good job which pays good money

bigis
Jun 21, 2006
I wonder why they don't make you pay your spouse's HECS if only one of you are over the repayment threshold.

My wife is going to be a stay at home mum so I should probably repay her HECS when mine is done.

Or will this not raise enough money for anyone to care? It seems fairer than pinging low income earners.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

bigis posted:

I wonder why they don't make you pay your spouse's HECS if only one of you are over the repayment threshold.

My wife is going to be a stay at home mum so I should probably repay her HECS when mine is done.

Or will this not raise enough money for anyone to care? It seems fairer than pinging low income earners.

They'll get her HECS when she's dead

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again
Scott Morrison Diaries 29/03/2016:

Will our budget emergency finally be fixed by loving the poor? Upon further research I have concluded that all economic problems will be fixed by loving the poor from all angles and disrupting social mobility. This sort of thinking has never been tried before so I am excited to show my findings to Malcolm and...

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
becasue the tories ideologically support the institution of marriage and therefore wont do anything that puts a married couple in a worse position than two individuals filing their taxes alone

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again

bigis posted:

I wonder why they don't make you pay your spouse's HECS if only one of you are over the repayment threshold.

My wife is going to be a stay at home mum so I should probably repay her HECS when mine is done.

Or will this not raise enough money for anyone to care? It seems fairer than pinging low income earners.

Nah mate, you'll get tax cuts and some sort of baby support bonus and a free car. :v:

bigis
Jun 21, 2006
Dat middle class welfare. :cheers:

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Actually while I'm on a rant about poors, here's a really nice personal anecdote from me.

I do a lot of work alongside my full-time university workload and my regular casual job as a waiter. This has ranged from youth work, to tutoring, through to doing research assistant work for psychology Ph.D students. I should have a counselling gig shortly, which is a lot of pressure. Of this, only the tutoring has been paid, with the rest basically being a combination of a) wanting to help and b) gaining experience. Unsurprisingly, I have essentially no free time at all and I don't get paid a whole lot.

What triggers me greatly is the discussions I have with my Dad over why I am doing so much work for "experience" (viz. unpaid). As a successful military officer, he has no concept that in order to actually go further in my field (psychology), I have to work my rear end off and actually gain the right type of experience to I can apply to a Ph.D program. I framed this as "I must do X, Y, and Z in order to actually become A" because that's what you need to have in order to be competitive, whereas my older father believes I "choose to do what I do", and that I don't need help from the Govt. (i.e. Centrelink) because I could get a paid job doing what I essentially do for free.

It just annoys the gently caress outta me to be constantly told I'm this lazy as gently caress 90's kid who needs to step up more and not be such a leaner because loving hell my life is poo poo right now because I am banking that this'll pay off one day. My life could be shittier but this whole idea that university students/graduates aren't contributing enough as a cohort loving triggers me so greatly that I am willing to write a whole bunch of words when I literally have 4 textbook-sized books on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy to read.

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again
Conservatives will only stop complaining about young people when it's legal to send them to work gulags to work for free. Oh wait gently caress.

Au Revoir Shosanna
Feb 17, 2011

i support this government and/or service
millenials

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS
Has there been a cohort of 20-30year olds since the baby boomers that hasn't been completely shat upon by the preceding generations? It's just more of them same.

I look forward to to taking a hit to my income and/or quality of life to pay for nursing homes for boomers because god forbid we make them pay for that poo poo.

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again
Waiting for mother nature to cook up that airborne disease that only kills those over 69

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
I mean like I'm real happy for a person who is at the peak of their career but I'm really feel like I'm getting hosed in the rear end here

Like lol my parents unironically think I should be buying property, also they vote Liberal and so does my brother (I vote Greens)

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again
Then the bubble pops and they blame labor.

dr_rat
Jun 4, 2001

Anidav posted:

Waiting for mother nature to cook up that airborne disease that only kills those over 69

Sorry modern medicines going to keep them alive so they can stomp on face of humanities youth - forever.

Jonah Galtberg
Feb 11, 2009

Recoome posted:

As a successful military officer,

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Yeah can you imagine the exquisite cognitive dissonance I feel on a daily basis?

norp
Jan 20, 2004

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil
Phoneposting so can't be hosed quoting the guy who said it, but voluntarily paying off a hecs debt is basically the dumbest thing ever.

When you could get a 15-25% discount it could be made to stack up if you were debt free and the other option was investments that weren't making much more than CPI. The thing is now that HECS is so much lower than the interest rate on your house or car it's a no brainer to leave it unpaid if you have other debts. Even if you have no debt you are better off putting that money in a term deposit at the meagre rates the banks are paying for them.

The Peccadillo
Mar 4, 2013

We Have Important Work To Do
http://www.fortitude-australia.com

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Fortitude is an Australian political party, born of Australia's first patriotic street movement: the United Patriots Front.

The UPF after splitting from the Reclaim Australia Committee first became active in May 2015 and has since been the most controversial political force in Australia. Originating in Melbourne, its founding members have endured constant slander and the most defamatory accusations from the mainstream press.

The UPF in the beginning took a strong and public stance against further Islamic immigration, further building of mosques etc. This sparked outrage from among the egalitarian social circles, the adherents to which can be found at any time in their dwellings: State Universities, local institutions of government, news and journalistic organs and anywhere else in Australia where there is money & influence but no real work.

And so we earned for ourselves a relentless enemy with a fanatical devotion to the global-equality concept, so fanatical that any conflict with them would strongly resemble a dispute with crazed members of some fundamentalist religion. Our members quickly learned that there was little which distinguished the egalitarian concept and its adherents from religious fundamentalism and its warriors, which is amusing when considering that these 'counter-protesters' all self-describe as 'intellectual atheists'.
These self-proclaimed socialists, anarchists, the journalists in popular media, politicians and professors of 'distinction' etc expressed all the same qualities and vices present in the character and psychological make-up of a religious fanatic, since the equality concept is nothing more than a religion - and a false one at that - a religion to replace all other religions by subjugating all the peoples of the world and bringing them under a new law of equality by force and coercion. In fact the only essential difference between the equality concept and religious convictions is, in egalitarianism the God-figure is replaced with the idea of equality itself. I shall have more to say on this subject later.
In any case this enemy has been proven indispensable for our development as a street political movement, its obsessive rantings, lack of emotional control and violent counter-protests have forced us into the faces of hundreds of thousands - or millions - of Australian people who would otherwise have never known we existed.

Blair Cottrell the current Chairman of the movement seemed to have an unusual ability to predict every accusation or method of attack made against the movement before it was made - therefore the media's attacks were always and easily countered with calm rebuttals which reinforced the conviction of existing adherents and won new supporters from among the working masses.

The movement was and is still protected against infiltration/internal subversion by the formation of a definite hierarchy, with a locked inner circle and the power of final decision residing in the Chairman.

This firstly ensures that no State subversive or troublemaker may enter the movement and wreak havoc from within, their efforts are thus always attacks made from the external - easy to predict and easy to see.

Secondly it preserves the original founding elements; the potency and purity of the doctrine and gives an appropriate status to every individual, encouraging efficiency, discipline and duty.

After numerous public rallies and demonstrations (some of the largest Nationalistic rallies Australia has ever seen), the members announced the birth of Fortitude - to create a legitimate political arm which would coincide with and provide a new ambition for the UPF's street rallies.

While Fortitude produces candidates to contest seats and pursues legitimate political power - the UPF will continue to dominate the streets with public rallies and demonstrations in the major cities and rural towns with the green and gold, creating an enormous suggestive spectacle, changing the way people feel and think about their Nation, reviving that sense of community, pride, honor and duty.

For our people and our country.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Calm rebuttals aye

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Recoome posted:

Actually while I'm on a rant about poors, here's a really nice personal anecdote from me.

I find it frankly sinister that you're being used as an intern like this, do you feel pressure to conform in order to get ahead as well?

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
the leading way to become a successful clinical psychologist is to wait for one of the others to die

The Peccadillo
Mar 4, 2013

We Have Important Work To Do

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
Bread Liar

Those poor rich white people and that reverse racism :rolleyes:


It should also depress everyone that racist South Africans come over here in droves and feel right at home.

The Peccadillo
Mar 4, 2013

We Have Important Work To Do
Apartheid gets such a bad rap these days, but no one ever talks about the multicultural-terror flood against good honest regular people it held back

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
Bread Liar
Think of all the sectarian violence Saddam stopped :ohdear:


#justaskingquestions

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
its fine to be a refugee fleeing racism economic migrant so long as you're white

Negligent
Aug 20, 2013

Its just lovely here this time of year.
first-generation migrants can end up having really hosed up nationalist ideas about their adopted country

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
Bread Liar
I went to high school in the 80s and we had a few South African students. Most were so loving racist it was beyond parody, but one girl did try.

But she kept getting stuck in the recursive narrative white South Africans were all taught - blacks are obviously inferior because they can't even read or write. There's no point in teaching them to read and write because they're so obviously inferior.


It's been 30 years, I hope she managed to work her way out of that mindset, but I doubt it. Her parents were rich as hell and she probably ended up married to some equally well off afrikaner boy who spends all day reminiscing about when he had kaffirs to boss around and beat*.



* and rape.

Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Mar 29, 2016

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

quote:

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/mar/29/states-offered-5bn-hospitals-funding-income-tax-raising-powers
The Turnbull government is offering the states more than $3bn in additional hospitals funding over three years and the radical prospect of their own secure income tax stream in the long term, but no immediate extra money for the final two years of schools funding under the Gonski education plan.

The prime minister has outlined the broad elements of the offer to state premiers in the lead up to Friday’s Council of Australian Governments (Coag) meeting. The detail was due to be set out in a phone hook-up between commonwealth officials and the heads of the departments of premiers and cabinet on Tuesday.

As revealed by Guardian Australia in February, Malcolm Turnbull has been reassuring the states that he would provide extra hospital funding to prevent them falling off the “fiscal cliff’ caused by Tony Abbott’s 2014 budget cuts, which removed $57bn in long-term hospitals funding promised by the former Labor government. The commonwealth and the states have been discussing interim funding while a longer term deal is negotiated.

The NSW premier, Mike Baird, had proposed around $7bn over the next four years as a compromise – representing about 45% of the increased costs faced by the states. The South Australian premier, Jay Weatherill, had asked for $10bn. It is understood the commonwealth is offering to pay 45% of increased costs – but only up to a cap of around 6.5% in the cost growth. The states had estimated this would represent around $5bn over the next four years. Federal sources say it represents over $3bn over the next three years. Many states predict their hospital costs will rise faster than that. And the commonwealth’s calculations reflect the growth in hospital costs but not the increasing number of procedures.

At the same time the commonwealth has told the states it will not make an immediate offer on schools funding or match Labor’s promise to spend $4.5bn funding the final two years of the Gonski education plan in 2018 and 2019.

The decision opens the way for a fierce Labor attack during the imminent federal election campaign, but it is understood the commonwealth believes there is time to negotiate longer term changes to schools funding after the election.

It is understood the federal government is considering a sweeping plan to offer the states a share of income tax after 2020 to fund the growing costs of both health and education.

Weatherill had earlier proposed a guaranteed fixed share of commonwealth income tax, but it is understood the commonwealth is looking at a slightly different plan, which would hand the states the ability to raise a certain proportion of income tax, and allow them to raise that tax rate if necessary to fund state services.

The commonwealth’s proposal is understood to be along the lines of the recommendation in the Abbott government’s commission of audit, which suggested the federal government reduce its personal income tax rates, allow the states to charge an equivalent amount as an “income tax surcharge” and then deduct that amount from the commonwealth’s direct payments to the states. The advantage of this shuffle for the states would be that they had access to a steadily growing source of income.

Turnbull confirmed an offer had been made to the states, but not its detail.

“The health budget is enormous, spread across state and federal government, and it is vital that we work closely together on hospitals. Yes ... we will be presenting to the premiers and the chief ministers a proposal that ... will see us maintaining the commitment to activity-based funding and a national efficient price,” he said.

He said “everything we are doing at the federal level is calculated to ensure that Australians get the best care in hospitals and that hospitals are delivering that care to Australian patients as efficiently and effectively as we can”.

Treasurer Scott Morrison told radio 2GB any offer to the states on hospitals would be offset by other spending cuts in the 3 May budget.

Exclusive: South Australian premier says states won’t abide PM cutting company tax rate unless he restores health and education funding

Asked where he would find the money for the hospitals deal, Morrison said: “The budget will set out all the areas where we will make further gains in getting expenditure under control ... we are making sure if we have to spend more money then we will find the savings to do that ... they are the principles we work off.”

On Tuesday morning Weatherill described the outlines of the deal as “a $5bn bandaid on what we estimate to be a $57bn problem” that would represent a “downpayment” on what was needed in the longer term.

“Any contribution would be welcome because of the size of the problem ... we cannot go into this federal election campaign without acknowledgement of the fact there has been a massive cut to health and education and there needs to be a political response otherwise it will find its way into the election campaign.

“If it is $5bn we have a $57bn problem. The good thing is the acknowledgement that there is a cut ... for months we have been putting up with this nonsense that there has been no cut,” Weatherill said.

A report by Ernst and Young found that the hospital cuts currently on the table would mean that more than 56,000 patients a year would be left untreated in the public system by 2019-20, growing to more than 107,000 patients a year by 2024-25. Waiting times in the public system would grow, leading to an increase in demand for the private health system for those individuals who could afford it, and the price of private health premiums would increase by an extra 0.5% per annum as a result of increased demand, the report found.

State premiers will meet on Thursday before a dinner with the prime minister and the formal Coag meeting on Friday.

It's not perfect, but at least it's another step towards an independent ACT.

open24hours fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Mar 30, 2016

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

ewe2 posted:

I find it frankly sinister that you're being used as an intern like this, do you feel pressure to conform in order to get ahead as well?

yeah definitely

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
I mean like everyone I work for is usually amazing, that's not really my problem. The issue I have is that we basically put so little money into mental health that unpaid internships are the only way for undergrads to gain experience unless you are about to luck out on a stable paid psychology job (you won't be working as a psych though, you need your degree first). It's this lovely catch-22 bullshit which forces undergrads to be slaves in order to have a chance at doing anything.

But hey guys it's cause I'm a lazy no-good uni student i mean i'm just a leaner

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

It sucks but the other option is to miss out to people who are able to put the unpaid time in. It's like being an actor or a musician or other jobs that people really want to do, it's very competitive.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Recoome posted:

I mean like everyone I work for is usually amazing, that's not really my problem. The issue I have is that we basically put so little money into mental health that unpaid internships are the only way for undergrads to gain experience unless you are about to luck out on a stable paid psychology job (you won't be working as a psych though, you need your degree first). It's this lovely catch-22 bullshit which forces undergrads to be slaves in order to have a chance at doing anything.

But hey guys it's cause I'm a lazy no-good uni student i mean i'm just a leaner

I could understand your dad having weird and rigid ideas about working for free, but I honestly cannot see how he could turn that into the idea that you're the leaner.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

freebooter posted:

I could understand your dad having weird and rigid ideas about working for free, but I honestly cannot see how he could turn that into the idea that you're the leaner.

Because I'm not making money off a lot of the volunteer work. I also get centrelink

e: I'm not paying taxes therefore I am a worthless complaining sponge

Recoome fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Mar 29, 2016

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You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting


That's a great media representative to have where he won't show his face, let alone his whole name.

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