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TFRazorsaw posted:I also don't understand the criticism that "they have to deal with his origin". Or you could have the whole movie be his origin story like Vision (gently caress Vision)
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Mar 29, 2016 20:55
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Burkion posted:Where in the White Martian threat was...the very first thing that drew them all together. Which they can't very well do here for obvious reasons. The story that you're talking about in that first sentence was the first appearance of the White Martians ever. Martian Manhunter had been a core member of the Justice League for decades before that, having been created 40 years before the White Martians. Also even in that story the White Martians didn't survive and were after him still, everyone on MM's planet had been wiped out including the White Martians and the ones they encountered had just been in deep space when it happened. What you're talking about sounds like possibly the New 52 paradigm? I'm really not familiar with that, nor do I think MM absolutely has to be a core member of the JL (I really like when he is and lament that they have moved away from that in the past several years, but here we are). But the White Martians have not always been as central to his story; more the fact that he lost his entire race when he was old enough to care (having a wife and daughter) whereas Kal doesn't have any frame of reference for missing Krypton.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:56
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TheKingofSprings posted:J'onn would make an incredible villain, actually. Oh yeah, that would be fun for Part 1 of Justice League. Especially if J'onn is converted from Darkseid to Superman by witnessing the latter's resurrection.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:56
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TFRazorsaw posted:I also don't understand the criticism that "they have to deal with his origin". Here's the difference. Unless they ditch the most interesting thing about MM's origin, The Martian Civil War stuff, in which case he's just a low rent Superman and thus super redundant to throw in, his origin is going to matter. He's going to be on Earth and the White Martians will be gunning for him. Even as a sub plot, that's going to eat up time. Flash got his powers from being a clumsy gently caress and Aquaman, AT MOST, is maybe exiled from his rightful throne or is just showing up in Man's World to put a stop to some injustice under the oceans. Neither one of them have anything linked to their origins that would follow them into Justice League. In theory Green Lantern would, but if he's already been a GL for a little while then that's taken care of as well. And his origin tends to boil down to 'found a dying guy got a ring'. Wonder Woman is the one with the most involved backstory, and she's getting a movie to showcase it.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:56
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Burkion posted:The TV show also has more room to breathe than a movie. Shoving MM into Justice League just to have him in it is a terrible idea if he doesn't naturally fit- and he doesn't. Hooooooly poo poo I would have loved seeing casual viewer reaction to(END OF MOVIE SPOILER) Clark's casket opening up at the end only to have a green guy get out and fly away after everybody leaves.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:57
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quote:Or you could have the whole movie be his origin story like Vision (gently caress Vision) It worked well enough for Bruce Timm and the DCAU. I mean, I don't think a lot of people would complain if the White Martians in J'onn's origin were replaced with Apokolips ravaging Mars. Or if the White Martians were subservient to Darkseid, and they held off on using him until a later movie. But then I'm worried DC is going to blow their wad on the New Gods way too early in general.
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Mar 29, 2016 20:58
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Burkion posted:Here's the difference. You don't have to have that right away. Have him as a guy who has been hiding on Earth and was inspired by the events in BvS to step up and become a hero. Then the neat thing is if you want, you could do a solo movie with him, or have a future Justice League movie about the White Martians. You are looking for reasons to not include him, when you should look for ways to include him. There is nothing that would stop him from being used except lazy/bad writing.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:01
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The entire way DC is going about their extended universe is weird. They took this movie to introduce Flash, WW, Aquaman, and Dr. Pepper Cyborg, instead of trying them on their own and replacing the actors if the films didn't work. Then they plan on doing their big team up movie BEFORE their individual movies? What if one sucks? Like you have this great team but one clear anchor weighing everything down? Now some clunky team member replacement thing needs to happen before the next movie can go forward with the Actual Good team, but that crappy guy was still around at the beginning. Just seems strangely risky for a franchise.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:02
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I can't believe "his origin and powers are too similar to Superman's", when it ignores the fact that J'onn's involves genocide and not a natural disaster, and the fact that it would give Superman someone to relate to and bond with. These aren't obstacles, they're story hooks.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:03
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bring back old gbs posted:The entire way DC is going about their extended universe is weird. They took this movie to introduce Flash, WW, Aquaman, and Dr. Pepper Cyborg, instead of trying them on their own and replacing the actors if the films didn't work. Then they plan on doing their big team up movie BEFORE their individual movies? What if one sucks? Like you have this great team but one clear anchor weighing everything down? Now some clunky team member replacement thing needs to happen before the next movie can go forward with the Actual Good team, but that crappy guy was still around at the beginning. It took like, 3 movies to make Hawkeye not lame in the Marvel movies. The worse thing would be if they made an entire movie around a lovely character before realizing it didn't work. Also, you know, there were years and years of cinema where people could introduce multiple characters in the same movie and it worked just fine.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:06
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Yeah I would like to see MM in JL as well. He's a great character. e: I mean the Justice League DCCU in general, not specifically JL1. MacheteZombie fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 21:06
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bring back old gbs posted:The entire way DC is going about their extended universe is weird. They took this movie to introduce Flash, WW, Aquaman, and Dr. Pepper Cyborg, instead of trying them on their own and replacing the actors if the films didn't work. Then they plan on doing their big team up movie BEFORE their individual movies? What if one sucks? Like you have this great team but one clear anchor weighing everything down? Now some clunky team member replacement thing needs to happen before the next movie can go forward with the Actual Good team, but that crappy guy was still around at the beginning. Marvel was never going to recast any of their characters. The one exception is Hulk but being a bad actor is not why they recast him and he's a Green Man for most of the memorable parts.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:07
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TFRazorsaw posted:I can't believe "his origin and powers are too similar to Superman's", when it ignores the fact that J'onn's involves genocide and not a natural disaster, and the fact that it would give Superman someone to relate to and bond with. You're also cherry picking. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here man. I address ALL of that. You remove the White Martians angle, and ALL you have is basically Superman but he's angsty about it. You keep the White Martians and that becomes a thing you have to deal with in a movie with things that have to be dealt with and six other characters. J'onn, to be introduced as a hero properly, would need time and focus given to him. This is not difficult. These are not things you can spare in a movie with six other characters and some major poo poo that's going to be going down. He would make a fantastic villain to start with though.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:07
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TFRazorsaw posted:I can't believe "his origin and powers are too similar to Superman's", when it ignores the fact that J'onn's involves genocide and not a natural disaster, and the fact that it would give Superman someone to relate to and bond with. Also, again, J'onn was an adult and lost a wife and child. He experiences his loss in a completely different way. bring back old gbs posted:The entire way DC is going about their extended universe is weird. They took this movie to introduce Flash, WW, Aquaman, and Dr. Pepper Cyborg, instead of trying them on their own and replacing the actors if the films didn't work. Then they plan on doing their big team up movie BEFORE their individual movies? What if one sucks? Like you have this great team but one clear anchor weighing everything down? Now some clunky team member replacement thing needs to happen before the next movie can go forward with the Actual Good team, but that crappy guy was still around at the beginning. I don't see how? Like Marvel's method obviously worked well for them but it obviously isn't the only way. And carries the problem of starting out super slowly and potentially being derailed if one of those movies failed (this already happened with Green Lantern). Also, Avengers already kind of did the same thing. You had 3 of the guys with their own films, a replacement Hulk and 2 characters from cameo roles. By the time of Justice League you will have... 3 people with their own films, and 3 characters from cameo roles. Not a super significant difference.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:08
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computer parts posted:Marvel was never going to recast any of their characters. The one exception is Hulk but being a bad actor is not why they recast him and he's a Green Man for most of the memorable parts. I enjoy Mark Ruffalo's Bruce far more than I do most of his scenes as the Hulk. Burkion posted:You're also cherry picking. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here man. I really, really REALLY don't understand why you're so insistent that J'onn showing up means they have to deal with his origin and his background NOW NOW NOW. I mean. You don't even NEED to give him an angsty backstory, as Young Justice has proven.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:10
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J'onn will show up and immediately get capped in the head for being a CIA plant.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:11
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TFRazorsaw posted:I mean, I don't think a lot of people would complain if the White Martians in J'onn's origin were replaced with Apokolips ravaging Mars. Missed this as well, but honestly making J'onn a survivor of Darkseid's genocide of Mars would be a fantastic story hook and way to introduce him. The White Martians were cool in the first Morrison story but were lame for most of the time afterward (again, don't know how they've fared in the New 52 though).
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Mar 29, 2016 21:12
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quote:J'onn will show up and immediately get capped in the head for being a CIA plant. Either that or funneled into an exploding room to remind us that the bad guy is a bad guy.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:12
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Or he could wait until they get the others done and then bring him in more organically. But never mind that, let's keep bitching about them not including certain characters when they have no reason to include certain characters and then bitch about them doing that poorly.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:16
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After Batman v Superman, introducing any of these characters organically is already off the table. HEY-O.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:17
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Guy A. Person posted:Also, again, J'onn was an adult and lost a wife and child. He experiences his loss in a completely different way. Well The Hulk is why I bring it up at all. I didn't think any of them actually sucked, but Ruffalo is The. loving. Best. They had to go through 2 alright ones before this guy who works really well with the rest of the team. I'm talking about the actor human himself, not the CG part. I just think it's weird that they put all the actor's faces in BvS. Introducing the characters is perfectly fine. Like if Avengers came out first and had Eric Bana in it for a cameo then he is never seen again, replaced by Norton, then finally Ruffalo. It'd work just fine and they would write around it because comics but I think it's a weird way to go, like reeeeally putting all their eggs in this basket and assuming we are going to like all these guys.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:17
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Burkion posted:Or he could wait until they get the others done and then bring him in more organically. There's no reason to have included anyone they chose in the Justice League movie, there's no reason to have kept them out too.
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Mar 29, 2016 21:37
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I hope every DC movie has a different J[name] Olsen cameo for 30 seconds before being killed by a different Superman's Pal cover gimmick
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Mar 29, 2016 22:43
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mr. stefan posted:I hope every DC movie has a different J[name] Olsen cameo for 30 seconds before being killed by a different Superman's Pal cover gimmick I hear that in Justice League Part 2, Lois goes undercover as a black woman. (please, Mr. Snyder?)
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Mar 29, 2016 22:56
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:"Hm, someone threatening to burn Superman's mom alive made you feel bad? You should probably stop watching movies, I'm worried about you." - the voice of genuine concern Not bad. Defeated, or empty. That's a different, stronger word with a different, stronger meaning. That he has spent many hundreds of words elaborating on.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:55
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Nope! Just it's depressing and lovely!
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Mar 30, 2016 00:11
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Looks like the Gambit movie is still happening, but as many predicted it has been delayed. No release date yet, but the production is expected to start at the end of this year instead of this month. Doug Liman still directing.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:31
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CelticPredator posted:It made me feel hopeless. Hopeless about the world. Hopeless about my life (although, that's personal). Hopeless about heroes. I felt drained and just beaten after it. I know it boils down to Superman. I felt this exact same way coming out of Man of Steel. This Superman is just so off putting to me it bothers me. This is the post that I think people are reacting to CP, especially the bolded part. If a movie is making you feel "hopeless" and "depressed" that's not good, and people aren't insulting you for pointing out how strong that language seems to be. Unless of course you're just co-opting the language of actual depression in order to make fun of a movie, which of course I would never accuse you of.
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Mar 30, 2016 00:33
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I mean...they ganked Jimmy Olsen. I'm depressed by this movie and I haven't even seen it.
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Mar 30, 2016 01:18
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Phylodox posted:I mean...they ganked Jimmy Olsen. I'm depressed by this movie and I haven't even seen it. It wasn't even the real Jimmy Olsen it was some CIA spook who had probably killed Jimmy off camera to assume his identity
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Mar 30, 2016 01:24
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I think Boob Marley had the right idea. To really get the weight of authority behind your argument, you have to appeal to the swarm - Google Trends. Three pillars of the art form.  If this trend continues, Batman and Superman will soon become infinitely popular.  Data suggests Justice League 2 director chair should go to Adam Sandler.  EXTREMELY troubling trend here. Time running out to revive Seinfeld for season 10 and kickstart the brand. 
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Mar 30, 2016 02:29
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The MSJ posted:Looks like the Gambit movie is still happening, but as many predicted it has been delayed. No release date yet, but the production is expected to start at the end of this year instead of this month. Doug Liman still directing. I'm looking forward to this terrible, Cajun trainwreck.
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Mar 30, 2016 02:35
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howe_sam posted:I'm looking forward to this terrible, Cajun trainwreck. Tatum's role in Hateful Eight had made me weirdly optimistic. He spoke some French and charmed some ladies and looked believable doing it. The rest of the movie will just be CGI anyway.
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Mar 30, 2016 04:49
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Guy A. Person posted:This is the post that I think people are reacting to CP, especially the bolded part. If a movie is making you feel "hopeless" and "depressed" that's not good, and people aren't insulting you for pointing out how strong that language seems to be. No, I do have my own personal stuff with depression. Movie didn't help, at all.
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Mar 30, 2016 05:54
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Who wins in a fight, Martian Manhunter or the Vision?
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Mar 30, 2016 08:15
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Electromax posted:I think Boob Marley had the right idea. To really get the weight of authority behind your argument, you have to appeal to the swarm - Google Trends. Averages Assemble!
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Mar 30, 2016 08:45
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Rough Lobster posted:Who wins in a fight, Martian Manhunter or the Vision? Whoever wins, we lose.
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Mar 30, 2016 08:48
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Rough Lobster posted:Who wins in a fight, Martian Manhunter or the Vision?
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Mar 30, 2016 09:18
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Rough Lobster posted:Who wins in a fight, Martian Manhunter or the Vision? Depends on who is more popular. See: Batman vs Superman
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Mar 30, 2016 09:25
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MonsieurChoc posted:You know, I really want a Doom Patrol movie. The Brotherhood of Dada deserves to be on the big screen. Freakazoid_ posted:Spawn is a good movie.
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Mar 30, 2016 12:31
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