Magic the Gathering Appreciation Station

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Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

anglachel posted:

Your forgetting Burn.

There is actually a gently caress ton of playable at FNM level modern decks, it's just that they aren't as consistent as Burn/Infect/Affinity at just killing you loving dead in 4 turns or less, and didn't have the late game power Tron did if they could make it past turn 4. Also Jund is still a good deck, it's just expensive as gently caress and punishes you heavily for making not obvious play mistakes with it.

Eye of Ugin does hurt Tron pretty bad. Used to be if Tron got Tron online and stuck a threat, you were probably burning resources to deal with them, and the Tron player would just shrug and fetch up another one with Eye. It was a race you weren't likely to win. Now if you can deal with whatever threat Tron sticks down, odds are pretty good you can beat Tron.

Burn isn't as miserable to play against as the other two fast kills, imo, but I suppose you're right in counting it among them.

Honestly if a major card from each of those decks gets banned I can legitimately see Modern's top tier being more diverse than it's been in a long time. Lots of currently good tier 1.5-2 decks that aren't getting the spotlight they deserve.

Also Zombie Infestation dredge, can't forget that.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 03:58

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 05:32

Boco_T: Mar 12, 2003; la calaca tilica y flaca

C-Euro posted:

Oh MTGO. I wonder if any of the control decks that popped up during Eldrazi's reign will stick around. I certainly want to finally finish this UW Turbofog deck, especially if UberJew is right about Affinity/Burn/Infect being the new order.

Watch out the price of Turbofog is about to go up http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-91-35-tix-modern-tutelage-turbo-fog

# ? Mar 30, 2016 04:02

Angry Grimace: Jul 29, 2010; ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

I guess they could always just ban Reality Smasher, Eldrazi Mimic, Thought-Knot Seer and Matter Reshaper so there's no worthwhile targets :v:

# ? Mar 30, 2016 04:10

Balon: May 23, 2010; ...my greatest work yet.

Did a whack of testing tonight. Impressions on post-rotation as follows:

Eldrazi aren't losing any steam post rotation. Reality Smasher is still amazing as 5-toughness is really hard to get rid of for non-black. The removal clause is still a beast as not every deck is playing madness cards.

Languish is going to be seeing A LOT more play. Thought-Knot and Kalitas will be everywhere, and that 4-toughness mark is going to be crucial to deal with. As mentioned, 5-toughness+ is where you want your creatures to be come rotation. 5-toughness guys like Vile Aggregate, Smasher, Gitrog and Mindwrack are all going to be houses alongside Ramp's targets. The only spells that kill 5-toughness guys are Ruinous Path, Sinister Concoction, and Lightning Axe.

I didn't find a single person who solved a good control build. I played against Esper Dragons and Grixis Control/Superfriends. Esper Dragons FOLDS to To the Slaughter - laughably so. Grixis gets on the back foot so early that it ends up playing defense until it has the mana to play a walker with protection backing it up, meaning it doesn't do anything until turn 5+. Get an early threat and it's GG.

Aggro has teeth but nowhere near what Atarka Red had. Losing Swiftspear hurts it A LOT. Eldrazi Red is still in a good spot, but Prowess/Atarka Red/etc mourn the loss of Taylor Swiftspear.

BR Vampires is TERRIBLE haha. It seems so pushed on paper but is so bad in practice. Olivia might as well be a 3-mana enchantment since she dies to a stiff breeze or a funny look if you try to get aggro with her.

RG midrange/Werewolves MIGHT have some potential - it was the only deck that beat me game 1 across all my games. Languish hurts it a lot though, as it gasses super fast.

Ramp is still in a REALLY good spot; Cryptolith Rite makes the deck pretty good with a lot of little threats. Infinite Obliteration should be a 2-of in a lot of boards for this matchup - chaining World Breakers is still crippling.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 06:01

fuckingwhocares: Apr 23, 2003; Josh #2

Balon posted:

Did a whack of testing tonight. Impressions on post-rotation as follows:

Eldrazi aren't losing any steam post rotation. Reality Smasher is still amazing as 5-toughness is really hard to get rid of for non-black. The removal clause is still a beast as not every deck is playing madness cards.

Languish is going to be seeing A LOT more play. Thought-Knot and Kalitas will be everywhere, and that 4-toughness mark is going to be crucial to deal with. As mentioned, 5-toughness+ is where you want your creatures to be come rotation. 5-toughness guys like Vile Aggregate, Smasher, Gitrog and Mindwrack are all going to be houses alongside Ramp's targets. The only spells that kill 5-toughness guys are Ruinous Path, Sinister Concoction, and Lightning Axe.

I didn't find a single person who solved a good control build. I played against Esper Dragons and Grixis Control/Superfriends. Esper Dragons FOLDS to To the Slaughter - laughably so. Grixis gets on the back foot so early that it ends up playing defense until it has the mana to play a walker with protection backing it up, meaning it doesn't do anything until turn 5+. Get an early threat and it's GG.

Aggro has teeth but nowhere near what Atarka Red had. Losing Swiftspear hurts it A LOT. Eldrazi Red is still in a good spot, but Prowess/Atarka Red/etc mourn the loss of Taylor Swiftspear.

BR Vampires is TERRIBLE haha. It seems so pushed on paper but is so bad in practice. Olivia might as well be a 3-mana enchantment since she dies to a stiff breeze or a funny look if you try to get aggro with her.

RG midrange/Werewolves MIGHT have some potential - it was the only deck that beat me game 1 across all my games. Languish hurts it a lot though, as it gasses super fast.

Ramp is still in a REALLY good spot; Cryptolith Rite makes the deck pretty good with a lot of little threats. Infinite Obliteration should be a 2-of in a lot of boards for this matchup - chaining World Breakers is still crippling.

Good info. Happen to play any UB Zombies? It's probably pretty bad (whoops, Languish), but I'm going to FNM it at least.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 06:38

Balon: May 23, 2010; ...my greatest work yet.

Rukawa posted:

Good info. Happen to play any UB Zombies? It's probably pretty bad (whoops, Languish), but I'm going to FNM it at least.

No but I did play an Esper Control player running Geralf's Masterpiece as a wincon. SUPER anti- synergy in a control deck. At one point he cast it, I killed it, he brought it back then reduced it to a 2/2 by playing 2 painful truths haha.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 06:44

alansmithee: Jan 25, 2007; Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Rukawa posted:

Good info. Happen to play any UB Zombies? It's probably pretty bad (whoops, Languish), but I'm going to FNM it at least.

It's obviously theorycrafting but I'd think Relentless dead and the other dude that comes back would help a lot against Languish and other sweepers. Although with Declaration in Stone and Anguished Unmaking both exiling and Kalitas being everywhere, not sure how well the dead will stick around to do work.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:02

Gay Horney: Feb 10, 2013; by Reene

Esper control with, say, new Sorin or one of the Angels sounds much better as a wincon than Geralfs masterpiece or loving dragons of all things. Talk to me about ramp tho, what cards did you like in that deck?

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:06

Alris: Apr 20, 2007; Welcome to the Fantasy Zone!

Get ready!

Balon posted:

BR Vampires is TERRIBLE haha. It seems so pushed on paper but is so bad in practice. Olivia might as well be a 3-mana enchantment since she dies to a stiff breeze or a funny look if you try to get aggro with her.

This is extremely upsetting to hear.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:16

Rimusutera: Oct 17, 2014

Alris posted:

This is extremely upsetting to hear.

Tell me about it.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:30

Angry Grimace: Jul 29, 2010; ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.

alansmithee posted:

It's obviously theorycrafting but I'd think Relentless dead and the other dude that comes back would help a lot against Languish and other sweepers. Although with Declaration in Stone and Anguished Unmaking both exiling and Kalitas being everywhere, not sure how well the dead will stick around to do work.

The UB Zombies deck isn't good. It's mostly centered around Relentless Dead and hoping you can flip Liliana. I mean, Relentless Dead is busted when you get them out and have lots of mana available, which is why that complaint that its a utility card with low mana cost and shouldn't be Mythic is dumb: you needs lots of mana for that card to do anything beyond being a 2/2. You don't actually cast Relentless Dead on 2, and if you can help it, you don't cast it on less than like 5. You also just comically die to Kalitas.

Alris posted:

This is extremely upsetting to hear.

The RB Vampires deck is bad because its like any other aggro deck except it requires a significant amount of mana to operate and doesn't function at all if you're missing certain key cards. Olivia is just a french vanilla 3/3 for 3 who doesn't do anything unless you untap with her and have another card to play that can profitably attack and even if you do none of the guys in the deck can profitably attack through a Mindwrack Demon anyways.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Mar 30, 2016

# ? Mar 30, 2016 07:41

Voyager I: Jun 29, 2012; This is how your posting feels.
🐥🐥🐥🐥🐥

Yeah, Madness would need to be a lot better than it is right now for Olivia to regularly be more than a 3/3 for 3. The Madness costs just aren't priced aggressively enough for her to do anything most of the time.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 09:23

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Doesn't World Breaker help out in the matchups you'd currently use Eye of Ugin to win?

# ? Mar 30, 2016 12:31

Jen X: Sep 29, 2014; To bring light to the darkness, whether that darkness be ignorance, injustice, apathy, or stagnation.

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Doesn't World Breaker help out in the matchups you'd currently use Eye of Ugin to win?

Yes but you'd prefer the utility of eye over having to draw specific cards like a normal deck

Tron should not have a better, more consistent lategame than Ux control, I'm glad to see eye burn.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 12:40

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

Boco_T posted:

Watch out the price of Turbofog is about to go up http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/budget-magic-91-35-tix-modern-tutelage-turbo-fog

No Olive you dickhead, I thought of it first :mad:

To be fair, I have pretty much everything in this list except the Tutelages. I'm very excited to pay $15-20 for a playset of Standard-legal uncommons though! Also the deck has a hilariously bad matchup against Burn, at least game 1.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 13:00

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Balon posted:

Did a whack of testing tonight. Impressions on post-rotation as follows:

Eldrazi aren't losing any steam post rotation. Reality Smasher is still amazing as 5-toughness is really hard to get rid of for non-black. The removal clause is still a beast as not every deck is playing madness cards.

Languish is going to be seeing A LOT more play. Thought-Knot and Kalitas will be everywhere, and that 4-toughness mark is going to be crucial to deal with. As mentioned, 5-toughness+ is where you want your creatures to be come rotation. 5-toughness guys like Vile Aggregate, Smasher, Gitrog and Mindwrack are all going to be houses alongside Ramp's targets. The only spells that kill 5-toughness guys are Ruinous Path, Sinister Concoction, and Lightning Axe.

I didn't find a single person who solved a good control build. I played against Esper Dragons and Grixis Control/Superfriends. Esper Dragons FOLDS to To the Slaughter - laughably so. Grixis gets on the back foot so early that it ends up playing defense until it has the mana to play a walker with protection backing it up, meaning it doesn't do anything until turn 5+. Get an early threat and it's GG.

Aggro has teeth but nowhere near what Atarka Red had. Losing Swiftspear hurts it A LOT. Eldrazi Red is still in a good spot, but Prowess/Atarka Red/etc mourn the loss of Taylor Swiftspear.

BR Vampires is TERRIBLE haha. It seems so pushed on paper but is so bad in practice. Olivia might as well be a 3-mana enchantment since she dies to a stiff breeze or a funny look if you try to get aggro with her.

RG midrange/Werewolves MIGHT have some potential - it was the only deck that beat me game 1 across all my games. Languish hurts it a lot though, as it gasses super fast.

Ramp is still in a REALLY good spot; Cryptolith Rite makes the deck pretty good with a lot of little threats. Infinite Obliteration should be a 2-of in a lot of boards for this matchup - chaining World Breakers is still crippling.

You didn't include a BW midrange/control deck in your gauntlet?

# ? Mar 30, 2016 13:13

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

Fuzzy Mammal posted:

Lol. Man you guys are dicks.

Here's a hypothetical:

Is a superior modern format one where there are basically no blue decks, or one where basically all blue decks play jace tms?

Neither. I think seriously its one where a better draw spell / card selection spell or a better counterspell are legal.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 13:25

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

UberJew posted:

while I think you're right I have all these dumb tron cards and no interest in spending eight hundred dollars on another modern deck so I'll be sticking with it

Sanctum of Ugin is a workable replacement. Of course no where near as good, but it will still give you the late game ability to get your Ulamog or whatever.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 13:27

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

jassi007 posted:

Sanctum of Ugin is a workable replacement. Of course no where near as good, but it will still give you the late game ability to get your Ulamog or whatever.

It's like 20% of a replacement and it makes your deck worse cause you have to play more threats with it.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 13:48

Panderfringe: Sep 12, 2011; yospos

mcmagic posted:

You didn't include a BW midrange/control deck in your gauntlet?

I hope there's a BW deck that'll be good. I need something to do with all these Gideons I opened in BFZ drafts.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:04

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Panderfringe posted:

I hope there's a BW deck that'll be good. I need something to do with all these Gideons I opened in BFZ drafts.

I've been testing BW Control and I think it's going to be a T1 deck right out of the gate. It's removal suite is so good that it feels almost like Modern Jund.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:07

Stormgale: Feb 27, 2010

mcmagic posted:

I've been testing BW Control and I think it's going to be a T1 deck right out of the gate. It's removal suite is so good that it feels almost like Modern Jund.

What's the list? I enjoy Black White and Sorin.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:12

jassi007: Aug 9, 2006; mmmmm.. burger...

mcmagic posted:

It's like 20% of a replacement and it makes your deck worse cause you have to play more threats with it.

Tron probably has to go back to playing Emrakul if it is going to use Sanctum, I don't think you need more than that and 1-2 Ugin's. I do agree, it is not as good. Not at all. Tron won't stop existing, it will simply not be as good as it was. It will be weak to early game pressure and to late game grindy decks. It will still smash midrange decks to bits, which is ok.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:12

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Stormgale posted:

What's the list? I enjoy Black White and Sorin.

This is where I am now.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:13

Logicblade: Aug 13, 2014; Festival with your real* little sister!

I am just so mad that Kalitas is the only graveyard hate in standard right now... and it's not even really graveyard hate. There has to be a deck to optimize Jund recursion with Gitrog Toad, Kolaghan's Commands, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Den Protectors and the like... Hell just play Kalitas because don't play black without Kalitas.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:37

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

mcmagic posted:

This is where I am now.

Modern jund that is not but I get where you were going with that.

Obviously the biggest threat to that deck is reality smasher but I guess that is where transgress the mind comes in. Deck should be a good spot for sure.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:41

Panderfringe: Sep 12, 2011; yospos

Logicblade posted:

I am just so mad that Kalitas is the only graveyard hate in standard right now... and it's not even really graveyard hate. There has to be a deck to optimize Jund recursion with Gitrog Toad, Kolaghan's Commands, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Den Protectors and the like... Hell just play Kalitas because don't play black without Kalitas.

I hope Kalitas isn't played, because while I have a playset it's all scattered in like six boxes of cards that I intend to throw away.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:42

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Panderfringe posted:

I hope Kalitas isn't played, because while I have a playset it's all scattered in like six boxes of cards that I intend to throw away.

You understand that card is the most expensive card in the set and you are throwing away money? Its 22 bucks per mtg goldfish.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:44

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Sickening posted:

Modern jund that is not but I get where you were going with that.

Obviously the biggest threat to that deck is reality smasher but I guess that is where transgress the mind comes in. Deck should be a good spot for sure.

You're right about Smasher. The worst matchup that I have played against is the Rx Eldrazi deck though there are few better feelings than Sorin -5'ing a Smasher.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:46

Madmarker: Jan 7, 2007

Panderfringe posted:

I hope Kalitas isn't played, because while I have a playset it's all scattered in like six boxes of cards that I intend to throw away.

The card is a 4 drop that bricks aggro, and grinds out advantage into the long game. Kalitas is incredibly good, and will be a 2-4 of in the majority of black decks. The card is going to be a standard staple for likely its entire time in the format.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:48

CountFosco: Jan 9, 2012; Welcome back to the Liturgigoon thread, friend.

Panderfringe posted:

I hope Kalitas isn't played, because while I have a playset it's all scattered in like six boxes of cards that I intend to throw away.

I hope the American dollar drops in value, I've got all these twenty dollar bills I was planning on using for rolling cigarettes and I want to feel less bad about it.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:50

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Sickening posted:

You understand that card is the most expensive card in the set and you are throwing away money? Its 22 bucks per mtg goldfish.

If it takes more time to look for them than the cards are worth, just throw it away. It's not hard. :confused:

# ? Mar 30, 2016 14:59

Necronomicon: Jan 18, 2004

I've been going between playing UR Eldrazi and mono U Eldrazi online for the past couple of days and have been pretty satisfied with its performance against everything except RG ramp. Once World Breaker lands it's pretty much game over. I feel like the best option in the matchup is either Rogue's Passage or Slip Through Space to sneak my Reality Smashers through, or otherwise going UB Eldrazi for access to better removal.

Edit: Or Blinding Drone, that's pretty cool.

Necronomicon fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Mar 30, 2016

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:02

Count Bleck: Apr 5, 2010; DISPEL MAGIC!

mcmagic posted:

This is where I am now.

Yoink.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:05

MiddleEastBeast: Jan 19, 2003; Forum Bully

Anyone who doesn't value their free time at >$100/hr is a peasant scrub, so

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:07

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Count Bleck posted:

Yoink.

Just don't bring this to baltimore and beat me and we're cool.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:08

Panderfringe: Sep 12, 2011; yospos

CountFosco posted:

I hope the American dollar drops in value, I've got all these twenty dollar bills I was planning on using for rolling cigarettes and I want to feel less bad about it.

I'm not throwing them in the garbage. I was going to give them to the kids at my LGS.

It's also not even close to the same as having actual money. Nobody will buy them off me for their full value, or even half value probably. At best I could trade with them, but the only card I want right now is Jace. And a playset of Khalitas would get me at most one copy of Jace, and that's if anyone is willing to trade for that.

But if they're worthwhile for the new standard then I'll probably dig aroun for them.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:08

whydirt: Apr 18, 2001; Gaz Posting Brigade

Chill la Chill posted:

If it takes more time to look for them than the cards are worth, just throw it away. It's not hard.

The rules for rip n flip have gotten a lot more complicated.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:09

Count Bleck: Apr 5, 2010; DISPEL MAGIC!

mcmagic posted:

Just don't bring this to baltimore and beat me and we're cool.

I make no promises.

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:18

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 05:32

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Panderfringe posted:

I'm not throwing them in the garbage. I was going to give them to the kids at my LGS.

It's also not even close to the same as having actual money. Nobody will buy them off me for their full value, or even half value probably. At best I could trade with them, but the only card I want right now is Jace. And a playset of Khalitas would get me at most one copy of Jace, and that's if anyone is willing to trade for that.

But if they're worthwhile for the new standard then I'll probably dig aroun for them.

I get not getting full retain value for cards but even at half the price at an lgs that is still 40 bucks. You could put the entire playset on ebay right now for 75-80 and it would probably sell nearly instantly. I am one of the laziest fuckers out there about moving expensive cards and even I think this is beyond wasteful.

But its your cardboard, do what you want.

Chill la Chill posted:

If it takes more time to look for them than the cards are worth, just throw it away. It's not hard.

MiddleEastBeast posted:

Anyone who doesn't value their free time at >$100/hr is a peasant scrub, so

# ? Mar 30, 2016 15:18

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