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tooterfish posted:Just saw this on Reddit. 2 months out into the black, a brave pilot tries to buzz a canyon to show off. Hah, I did exactly this in my Diamondback Explorer yesterday, but only a few hundred LY into my trip. I survived it, at least, after grinding along like a giant piece of sidewalk chalk. Sulked back to get repairs.
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Mar 29, 2016 15:44
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BMan posted:You can get cargo racks at Takurua. It's also the system where I get scanned to fail Shadow Deliveries. If I don't get interdicted on one of the jumps, I get the security scan from the station cops.
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Mar 29, 2016 17:27
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Truga posted:Imperial courier actually doesn't have all that good lateral thrusters and will drift around quite a bit, especially under gravity. I'm 90% sure the vulture is better at that. We were talking more about thrust/weight ratio which the only way I can really think of how to figure would be ship mass vs thruster optimal, the vulture is definitely superior in terms of agility and handling.
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Mar 29, 2016 19:04
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This conversation reminds me that we're never going to get the good military asp and it makes me sad because those hardpoints are amazing 
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Mar 29, 2016 22:07
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RabidWeasel posted:This conversation reminds me that we're never going to get the good military asp and it makes me sad because those hardpoints are amazing The what?
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Mar 29, 2016 22:14
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Hey the last think we need is more :ugh: variants Cockpit variety is king
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Mar 29, 2016 22:19
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RabidWeasel posted:This conversation reminds me that we're never going to get the good military asp and it makes me sad because those hardpoints are amazing Even if we do, it will probably still have 2 Medium/4 Small hardpoints, much how the Viper MK4 still has 2/2 Medium/Small, unless it cost 30 million stock or something. gently caress, somebody please give me a lower mid tier priced maneuverable combat ship that's just 4 Medium hardpoints. I want my goddamned Elite X-Wing and I'm needlessly salty about the Viper MKIV getting saddled with bog standard 2/2 because they refuse to give better firepower to anything that costs less than 2 million credits stock. Is 10 million credits for a gimmick fighter so much to ask? gently caress you Cobra MKIV, you don't count.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:25
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Are the vulture and courier that far off the mark for you there? ~5 million credits is totally accessible if you like combat, which presumably you do if you want more fighter ships.
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Mar 29, 2016 22:47
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timn posted:Are the vulture and courier that far off the mark for you there? ~5 million credits is totally accessible if you like combat, which presumably you do if you want more fighter ships. Vulture and courier are both wonderful (and now I can actually buy the Courier). But the Vulture still has a somewhat cramped jump range, and the Courier is a fragile snowflake of a hull. Mostly though it's the stylistic "It would be cool if-" desire for a 7-13 million range ship with just 4 well placed medium hardpoints, with the further 'while I'm wishing for the impossible anyways' benefit of 6 internals and nice jumps. But I really doubt we will be getting such a thing any time soon, even just regarding the hardpoints. FD seems to have some kind of hate on for massed Mediums unless it's attached to something expensive with bigger guns they can overcharge for. The FDL would never cost 50 Million without that Hell, even the i Courier itself is 2.5 million, despite only having 3 medium hardpoints. The DBE has a large hardpoint, and is only 1.6 Million. What the hell is up with that? Is that courier shield modifier really worth that much compared to the DBE having twice the jump distance and a bigger gun? So something like a "Medium Sized iCourier with +1 hardpoint", people would sit up and notice if they tried charging as much as a Federal Dropship for that. Even if it still had a nice jump range and 6 internal slots on top. There is still quite the big price gap between the Asp Explorer, and Federal Dropship. And all of the new ships since forever are either well above, or way below either of those in stock price. EDIT: TL:DR: I'm mostly just Wishlisting to personal tastes. The Vulture and iCourier are still sweet ships. Section Z fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Mar 29, 2016 |
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Mar 29, 2016 23:14
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:The what? In the lore the Asp Explorer is basically a hosed up poo poo babby variant of a military ship with severely downgraded weapons and engines, since I think the ship looks cool and has great hardpoint locations but isn't very fun to fly I've been hoping that they might make another Asp variant as a Federation rank ship but by this point it's a pretty futile hope. Section Z posted:Even if we do, it will probably still have 2 Medium/4 Small hardpoints, much how the Viper MK4 still has 2/2 Medium/Small, unless it cost 30 million stock or something.  If they made a ship which was smaller and more agile than the FDL with 4M hardpoints and a class 5 power distributor I'd love it. I don't like how the fighter ships go tiny viper => much larger vulture => proportionately huge FDL / FAS.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:44
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FWIW I think the issue is more the FDL/FAS are weirdly huge and chunky for what they are (or maybe the python is just too drat small to make any sense by comparison), but to each his own.
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Mar 29, 2016 23:52
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timn posted:FWIW I think the issue is more the FDL/FAS are weirdly huge and chunky for what they are (or maybe the python is just too drat small to make any sense by comparison), but to each his own. Considering the medium Python easily holds more than even my large multipurpose iClipper I think it's pretty safe to say that's the issue there.
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Mar 30, 2016 07:29
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DancingShade posted:Considering the medium Python easily holds more than even my large multipurpose iClipper I think it's pretty safe to say that's the issue there. Internal slot space seem to be based entirely on the whims of the devs. Though iClipper feels like the odd one out for Large ships. Every other large ship in the game is some massive mother fucker that's a bitch to get through the mailslot due to it's size and handling... Well okay, there is also the Orca, I GUESS. The iClipper can hold slightly more cargo than the Type-7, and is less hosed with no shields thanks to it's turbo boosters regardless of the fueltank size difference. Why? Because it costs slightly more I guess? That's still a "Multi Role" ship sporting as much cargo room as the dedicated trader in it's price bracket that will cause itself heat damage charging it's FSD with it's stock powerplant. The iClipper feels like it's only large for the sake of selling a "Large" ship that wasn't an Anaconda or Type-9. That's always seemed a bit off to me far more than the Python counting as a Medium. And now we've got more and more "medium" ships that have even more mass than the Python. But of course those cost much less, so they are not allowed to have as much internal space as the Python. Section Z fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 08:17
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You know what would be nice? A gutamaya shipyards version of the python.
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Mar 30, 2016 09:03
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That's the clipper. It's only large because of the oversized engines, it's basically a medium ship at heart. The large pad requirement is also literally its only downside. It's extremely fast for its size (one of the fastest ships in the game), heavily armed and armoured, has decent jump range, and plenty of internals. It'd be the best multi-role in the game if it weren't for its fat rear end, and it is hands down one of the best combat ships.
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Mar 30, 2016 10:58
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I think the Federation sent me on a false flag operation. One Federation aligned Corp asked me to go one system over and murder 21 civilians from another Federation aligned corp (For 750K so of course I was going to). After my murder spree I canme out 750k up and about even on reputation gained from doing the mission and lost for murdering civilians. (Except for that one system where my bounty is now 250K, those guys hate me)
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Mar 30, 2016 11:03
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tooterfish posted:That's the clipper. It's only large because of the oversized engines, it's basically a medium ship at heart. If I could get a clipper with the python's size 7 power distributor I'd be a very happy camper. Or a clipper that fits on a medium pad, either way.
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Mar 30, 2016 11:31
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A while ago I finally got it into my thick head what the difference between planetary ports and planetary outposts is: For some reason I thought I had just bad luck when trying to land somewhere -until I suddenly noticed I could land only at outposts with the round symbol, not the other one. So because of my involuntary sightseeing tours of planetary outposts, I tried out scanning some of those scan-towers you can find at small planetary outposts (the ones you can't dock with) and found out I actually get money from scanning them. Neat! You get either intel for the Empire or for the Feds and you can just go into your contacts of a station you're docked with and sell the data. It's not much (something like 14-15k credits per scan), but at least I don't have to shovel heavy gold into my SRV, so it's a step up from finding random mining bases.
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Mar 30, 2016 11:35
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Saying the clipper is gutamaya's medium ship because it's not large at heart is pretty ridiculous. That is not an answer to anyone who wishes we had a gutamaya ship which actually lands on actual medium pads, not the medium pads of our hearts or some poo poo. All of this would be solved by just making the Clipper medium in practice as well as spirit. Making the Python large would also be nice, but I think Frontier would dissolve first
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Mar 30, 2016 20:19
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The clipper is pretty big. A T6 is about the size of the raised part/engine block on the back of the clipper. e: 
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Mar 30, 2016 20:45
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I was musing about pricepoints, reminding myself that the Federal Dropship used to cost more than the Federal Gunship does, and I got to thinking about the poor bastard that is the Orca again. Oh my loving god. The orca can only make 4 jumps on it's tank. With an A Grade FSD and D grade everything else, it has a "fastest unladen range" of less than 65 LY. You are the space shuttle bus, but even your jump situation is laughable even if Taxi missions existed. Why can't you do anything right orca? Your Loyal Vizier posted:Saying the clipper is gutamaya's medium ship because it's not large at heart is pretty ridiculous. That is not an answer to anyone who wishes we had a gutamaya ship which actually lands on actual medium pads, not the medium pads of our hearts or some poo poo. A Medium Sized i Courier would be incredibly fabulous in theory. But in practice if it ever existed they would likely make it a 60 Million Stock "Competing with the Python" deal. Unless they slashed some aspect of it to make it not so great at multitasking/travel. Or maybe just slapping a single huge hardpoint onto it FDL style so they can put a big pricetag on it regardless of it's other capabilities.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:46
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Heh. True and true. Obviously I'm an armchair rear end in a top hat making gross oversimplifications, but it seems like they kind of designed themselves into a corner when it comes to adding new ships. Everything is hobbled in some way, so everything new needs to be hobbled in some way too, to keep it from being an "everyone flies X" situation. It seems like they would have been better served starting off with a set of actually competent multirole options in various sizes, and then adding on things that excel in one area or another, or bigger versions of existing concepts as the game scales up. Now they can't do that without retconning the sizes or capabilities of existing stuff, which they seem extremely reluctant to do without a lore rationalization.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:52
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Your Loyal Vizier posted:Saying the clipper is gutamaya's medium ship because it's not large at heart is pretty ridiculous. Your Loyal Vizier posted:All of this would be solved by just making the Clipper medium in practice as well as spirit.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:11
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They hosed up hard with the limited amount of granularity on module sizes - going up or down a size class on FSD or power distributor or hardpoints is a huge jump in effectiveness so there just isn't that much 'play' in the system for them to make a variety of effective ships. This is why unladen hull mass is such a clusterfuck stat, because it's the only way that they can make ships have meaningfully different jump ranges (like taking an asp from C5 to C4 FSD makes it go from 30+ LY range to ~14-15LY) It's extra weird because the system is still jammed full of 'magic numbers' so the fact that 2 ships use the same engines or shields means nothing, they could have scrapped the whole module size system entirely with a minimal amount of game impact and just kept the E => A progression for each slot, though I suppose that fails to give the illusion of depth.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:17
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Tell you what, how about a Cutter with a size 8 power distributor. That would rock.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:18
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RabidWeasel posted:They hosed up hard with the limited amount of granularity on module sizes - going up or down a size class on FSD or power distributor or hardpoints is a huge jump in effectiveness so there just isn't that much 'play' in the system for them to make a variety of effective ships. This is why unladen hull mass is such a clusterfuck stat, because it's the only way that they can make ships have meaningfully different jump ranges (like taking an asp from C5 to C4 FSD makes it go from 30+ LY range to ~14-15LY) It would mean not needing to google up what space stations are selling A grades for the size class you want after the 5th station you check that's selling everything but what you want, yeah  "Hello I'm looking for A grade Class 5 FSD and the last 5 stations haven't had any... Oh I see you have Grade E-B for Class 5, and E-A for everything smaller because I can just go gently caress myself because This Game Won't Hold My Hand™ okey dokey fine I'll just google it like everyone else. EDIT: I would be less down on the random selection of parts, if places were at least guaranteed to stock the parts for the ships they sell in their shipyard. "Oh, this place sells Vultures, that means I can always find parts that fit on Vultures". But no you get places that sell ships but still somehow don't offer ship armor or heatsink launchers. tooterfish posted:It has a medium ship's internals, and a large ship's profile. Given that, how is what I said in any way loving ridiculous? It's kind of implied anytime someone says "Make the Clipper Medium" that it would be slightly shrunk down to fit. Considering like you just said, it's still only got the insides of a medium ship anyways. Section Z fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 21:26
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I thought the Clipper was medium until I bought one and went to an outpost.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:31
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It's python sized. It's not mass that makes it "large" (it's lighter than the python AFAIK), it's the nacelles. If you shrunk it down, it wouldn't have the similar internals to the python. Your other option is remove the nacelles, which are the bits that make it fast (the extra engines have to go somewhere). So you'd be left with what's essentially a python... so just buy a python. I wouldn't complain if it were changed, I'm just a little puzzled by this focus on the clipper's single fault when there are ships out there that are less than worthless. Frankly it's loving great, one of the best ships in the game. All the Imperial ships are superb in fact. The poor Feds on the other hand didn't have a ship worth flying until the FAS came along! e:gently caress yo tables. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 21:44
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tooterfish posted:It's python sized. It's not mass that makes it "large" (it's lighter than the python AFAIK), it's the nacelles. I think the issue here is you are trying to apply common sense by assuming the physical size of the i Clipper model has any bearing on what the developers gave it for statistics. So I can't really fault you for that. Lore Reasons are only used by Developers (Any developer) when it's already fitting their desires, so they get to claim they are being lore concious for easy PR. Meanwhile, lore can just go gently caress itself when it's not something they want. Why isn't the i Clipper a Medium sized frame? "Lore reasons!" Why don't we have tractor beams for scooping cargo and ore? "Lore reasons!" Hey, previous Elite games had set and forget automatic mining devices. That's lore friendly, we've been asking about this since Alpha... This is where you say Lore Reasons, right? Hello? and so on.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:01
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My theory is it was always meant to be a medium ship, and then they compared the model to the pad for the first time and said "ah, gently caress".
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Mar 30, 2016 22:03
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The funny thing is the clipper is kind of poo poo now. It used to be awesome, and it's still pretty decent, but it's nowhere near as good as it used to be. Ironically, I think it was a combination of the hull tank meta and the FAS that killed its popularity. I almost never see anyone flying them anymore. Why fly the clipper when you could be flying the FAS which is even more maneuverable, and a lot harder to hit?
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Mar 30, 2016 22:14
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That there are only 3 pad sizes is goofy. Why can't the clipper fold up its nacelles to land on a medium pad? Why did they make the type 7 so tall? How come some ships are heavier than physically larger ships? Mysteries for the ages.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:39
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The way to make clipper fit on medium pads is have it retract nacelles like navy aircraft can do with wings when it lands so it can go inside the lift/hangar, IMO. Or don't. Outposts suck anyway e;fb Realtalk, do any planetary outposts have large pads? e: after a quick google, yes they do. I can live with that. Truga fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 23:12
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Retracting or raising the nacelles would be a cool solution. Alternately, scaling it down like previously said would also work fine, because loving nowhere in the ship roster does physical size have any practical correlation with size or quality of internals. It gets focused on a lot because while a cool ship, it's nowhere as strong as the other large ships (for every role, one of them is better), and it would slot perfectly into the current medium lineup, both in character and cost. Kakermix is right on the money that there should be more than three landing pad sizes, that would solve everything Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 23:35
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tooterfish posted:My theory is it was always meant to be a medium ship, and then they compared the model to the pad for the first time and said "ah, gently caress". Welp this is my new opinion on the matter, and also made me laugh. Thank you, space buddy  I think it is safe to say we all love cool space ships. Even if the spread of exact opinions on the matter varies.
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Mar 30, 2016 23:47
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Section Z posted:Welp this is my new opinion on the matter, and also made me laugh. Thank you, space buddy Verily 
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Mar 30, 2016 23:51
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The Courier in Elite II had retractable nacelles, and it's much closer to a Clipper than it is E:D's version of the Courier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y5fptWFWCg&t=1425s That might have been part of the original design for the Clipper, and for some reason they ditched it. Your Loyal Vizier posted:It gets focused on a lot because while a cool ship, it's nowhere as strong as the other large ships (for every role, one of them is better), and it would slot perfectly into the current medium lineup, both in character and cost. Look at the size comparison chart. Take into account the Clipper's nacelles and their pylons are thin, so the bulk of the ship is the sausage shape of the main hull. Now compare it to the python, which is a dense compact shape with zero wingy bits. The clipper is actually smaller than the python, an in it has less usable space. It just takes up more area because it's spread out, hence the need for a large pad. I agree that internals don't always make sense, but in this case they do. tooterfish fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 00:20
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I find it completely fitting that the imperial's ostentatious ship design actually handicaps them in gameplay terms. Suck it, space rome.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:43
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timn posted:I find it completely fitting that the imperial's ostentatious ship design actually handicaps them in gameplay terms. Suck it, space rome. You'd figure that Imperial-built outposts would always accommodate Imperial-specific ships. Imagine you are some Duke of Imperialisms and you are going to an outpost somewhere to check up on your slave holdings. Are you really telling me that I can't land my pimped-out Clipper at my outpost? Imps must not be as ostentatious as they think they are.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:53
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I'm about to go another round with ED, at least once my Rift gets here. Is there any stupid broke way of making money? Last time I was around was Robigo runs.
Sky Shadowing fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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