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At this point Im using the 'weaker stun lancer' mod, even if I make everything else tougher. Stun lancers are dicks.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:23
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| # ? Jun 11, 2024 22:59 |
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Four pages late but I am SO HAPPY that you put the teeth'n'gums texture back on the landing gear 
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Mar 30, 2016 19:24
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I compare them to Thin men. I think that's fair. 
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Mar 30, 2016 19:24
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Mzbundifund posted:Stun Lancers seem pretty out of step with the rest of the difficulty curve. Stun Lancers can run from farther than your guys can see, dodge everything for half damage, and instantly KO a dude for the rest of the mission no matter how high his health is. That's PRETTY bananas. I feel like the only thing that comes close to Stun Lancers are Mutons and their Plasma Grenades. If overwatch wasn't incredibly unreliable at low ranks I think Stun Lancers would be much more manageable.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:30
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Mzbundifund posted:Stun Lancers seem pretty out of step with the rest of the difficulty curve. Stun Lancers can run from farther than your guys can see, dodge everything for half damage, and instantly KO a dude for the rest of the mission no matter how high his health is. That's PRETTY bananas. And they have 8 hp when they are first introduced. With dodge, you can't do anything to reliably kill them in one turn except maybe grenade + point blank shotgun. They are the primary reason I carry at least two flashbangs on every mission in the early game.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:34
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SynthOrange posted:Oh man. Someone commented that I should replace the skyranger loading/briefing music. Now putting whole songs in would take up a fuckload more memory and open me up to legal shittery. Digirat posted:It is really way too punishing for panic, which is already often a sign of a snowball loss happening. Due to panic letting this happen, the very first shot an enemy ever took left me with 1 dead and 2 at minimum health. Panic is enough of a middle finger without being a method for the RNG to flat out make you lose the game because the weakest enemy in the game was allowed to fire a single time.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:36
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so it's December in Long War, I'm a few days away from finishing Plasma Weapons research and I just moved my first character on a normal abduction mission, still in blue squares, and he triggered five elite mutons, an ethereal, four floaters, two heavy floaters and five seekers. gently caress this game
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Mar 30, 2016 19:41
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Digirat posted:It is really way too punishing for panic, which is already often a sign of a snowball loss happening. Due to panic letting this happen, the very first shot an enemy ever took left me with 1 dead and 2 at minimum health. Panic is enough of a middle finger without being a method for the RNG to flat out make you lose the game because the weakest enemy in the game was allowed to fire a single time. I like panic as a mechanic, and the idea of them freaking out and losing their mind, and then getting twitchy and shooting anything that moves is neat. As far as I know, soldiers will take a shot on an alien if they have the option, and otherwise can attack one of your own troops (they're unfocused, saw movement out of the corner of their eye). It should be "shoot something if they have ammo, hunker if they don't". I'm even okay with their random movement - moving into a terrible position is often way worse than a bit of extra damage. I think abilities should be right out. It makes sense to use abilities and get ugly if they're under mind control, but not if they're twitchy or freaking out.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:42
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:so it's December in Long War, I'm a few days away from finishing Plasma Weapons research and I just moved my first character on a normal abduction mission, still in blue squares, and he triggered five elite mutons, an ethereal, four floaters, two heavy floaters and five seekers. gently caress this game Sounds like a target-rich environment to me.
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Mar 30, 2016 19:57
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Mzbundifund posted:Stun Lancers seem pretty out of step with the rest of the difficulty curve. Stun Lancers can run from farther than your guys can see, dodge everything for half damage, and instantly KO a dude for the rest of the mission no matter how high his health is. That's PRETTY bananas. They're definitely out of step. The sectoids are definitely supposed to be more terrifying than them, but their AI is painfully counter-deadly. They'll skip making plasma attacks on flanked wounded soldiers to raise An Zombie, or they'll otherwise just do literally anything other than trying out mind control unless everything else is on cooldown. Meanwhile your friendly neighborhood lancer will make crack strikes across unfathomable distances to KO perfectly healthy troops, and ends up always having to be targeted to die first always.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:43
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Kavros posted:They're definitely out of step. The sectoids are definitely supposed to be more terrifying than them Based on what? If you're referring to the "aliens are a bit more like mini-bosses" statements Jake made in some E3 interviews I remember a later interview with him mentioning how they ended up moving away from that design. If we're talking game mechanic-wise, then the fact that stun lancers have a higher required force level than sectoids would be a bit of a indicator they're meant to be tougher. 
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Mar 30, 2016 20:48
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Sectoids really should use their psi moves more though. They are a joke as they are now. When baddies show up, you should worry. Not breathe easy because oh it's just a sectoid. Force me to take some calculated risks, make mindshields actually a thing other than a counter to Shaken.
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Mar 30, 2016 20:58
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many johnnys posted:Sectoids really should use their psi moves more though. They are a joke as they are now. Their psi moves are the reason I breathe easy around them though. They either raise a zombie or mind control a guy, then they're dead the next turn.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:01
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Sectoids usually need two turns to deal any damage. There's always the chance of an unlucky panic grenade, but compared to an Advent Officer or something who can negate your cover or just grenade you himself, they're almost always the lowest priority enemy on the board.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:04
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If psi zombies were a bit weaker, but stuck around after their progenitor died, then sectoids would be more of a threat.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:13
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:so it's December in Long War, I'm a few days away from finishing Plasma Weapons research and I just moved my first character on a normal abduction mission, still in blue squares, and he triggered five elite mutons, an ethereal, four floaters, two heavy floaters and five seekers. gently caress this game That doesn't sound right. You're sure you don't see any Mechtoids?
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Mar 30, 2016 21:14
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RBA Starblade posted:Their psi moves are the reason I breathe easy around them though. They either raise a zombie or mind control a guy, then they're dead the next turn. Yeah but if they are in a group with other baddies, and they disorient someone or panic them or hell even mind control them, you gotta make some decisions. Whereas the way they are now, sectoids are weaker than basic advent troopers, and pose no risk whatsoever.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:15
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many johnnys posted:Yeah but if they are in a group with other baddies, and they disorient someone or panic them or hell even mind control them, you gotta make some decisions. They don't pose no risk whatsoever. Like you said, they're effective in big activations you can't kill in one turn because their psi moves shake up your strategy by panicking, mind controlling, or adding an enemy you didn't need to deal with. Really, the best time for Sectoids to move forward is with a line of advent in between you and them, at which point they can absolutely wreck you.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:19
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They should have brought back Sectoid Commanders with more health and armor or something.quote:They don't pose no risk whatsoever. Like you said, they're effective in big activations you can't kill in one turn because their psi moves shake up your strategy by panicking, mind controlling, or adding an enemy you didn't need to deal with. The only times sectoids ever did anything to me was when my overwatching guy with dragon's breath rounds set one on fire and instead of using an ability they just shot and crit someone.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:21
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Maluco Marinero posted:They don't pose no risk whatsoever. Like you said, they're effective in big activations you can't kill in one turn because their psi moves shake up your strategy by panicking, mind controlling, or adding an enemy you didn't need to deal with. Problem is, they don't like to panic, they don't like to mind control, they prefer to add an enemy you generally don't need to deal with. As soon as one of their advent buddies drop, you can ignore them completely for a turn, kill other baddies, and deal with the sectoid safely next turn (whether it's with a flashbang or by just shooting it until it dies).
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Mar 30, 2016 21:23
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many johnnys posted:Problem is, they don't like to panic, don't like to mind control, and prefer to add an enemy you generally don't need to deal with. As soon as one of their advent buddies drop, you can ignore them completely for a turn, kill other baddies, and deal with the sectoid safely next turn (whether it's with a flashbang or by just shooting it until it dies). And if they DO mind control, as long as they don't mind control the only guy who can see him or something it's not hard to kill them and get the controlled guy back.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:24
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RBA Starblade posted:And if they DO mind control, as long as they don't mind control the only guy who can see him or something it's not hard to kill them and get the controlled guy back. In EU/EW, didn't soldiers briefly panic when you freed them from control? I'm pretty sure that, at minimum, they couldn't act on the same turn you freed them.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:29
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RBA Starblade posted:And if they DO mind control, as long as they don't mind control the only guy who can see him or something it's not hard to kill them and get the controlled guy back. I doubt that, I guess what I mean is that the reason they aren't dangerous isn't because of a problem with the Sectoid itself, but with the lack of good compositions to support them so they can hold their distance and distract enough to let the killing units get their shots off.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:30
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many johnnys posted:In EU/EW, didn't soldiers briefly panic when you freed them from control? I'm pretty sure that, at minimum, they couldn't act on the same turn you freed them. If you freed them from mind control, they skipped their turn yeah. It also sucks having enemies get their full actions back when hack wears off since that's a random timer.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:34
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Thyrork posted:I compare them to Thin men. I think that's fair. Stun lancers have to run up to you and have like 40% chance to whiff. Thin men could show up in the first month and annihilate people hiding behind full cover from the other side of the screen. Or poison you for truly unavoidable damage. Stun lancers suck but impossible thin men were soooooooo much worse.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:49
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Maluco Marinero posted:I doubt that, I guess what I mean is that the reason they aren't dangerous isn't because of a problem with the Sectoid itself, but with the lack of good compositions to support them so they can hold their distance and distract enough to let the killing units get their shots off. Yeah this is why I went for increasing the sectoid's ideal engagement along with increasing pod sizes, so that way when a sectoid does its alien voodoo bullshit it's about a turn away from having to actually experience any damage or getting a flashbang, and it tends to still have at least one bodyguard I'm going need to deal with. This actually ended up in me having to euthanize a mind controlled Ranger on a mission, because I had no way to actually deal with the last sectoid in time before the soldier would be able to act and probably kill at least two other soldiers (since he still had a frag). It was surprisingly fun to keep trying to think of any alternative solutions before realizing what I would have to do in the end.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:56
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Yeah I dunno, stun lancers have never been that troubling to me. Even when you're on conventional weapons flashbangs do a good job of neutralising them if the grenades and snipers don't kill them first. The key to getting past that phase of the game is to stop relying on overwatch to cut them down before they lance you. Overwatch is for trapping ayyys you haven't activated, or if you literally have no better move/shot. Getting wrecked by stun lancers is generally a sign you're not packing the right equipment or employing the wrong tactics, losing all the time to lancers is not an inevitability.
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Mar 30, 2016 21:59
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Yeah flashbangs are generally good against them. Then they land a critical shot on a guy behind full cover while disoriented and you feel disgusted.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:01
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Internet Kraken posted:Yeah flashbangs are generally good against them. Then they land a critical shot on a guy behind full cover while disoriented and you feel disgusted. In one of my vids I missed a high ground & flanked 97% on a flashbangs lancer and then he turned around and crit another ranger in high cover with full health. Killed him in one. I was a little miffed. Exposure posted:This actually ended up in me having to euthanize a mind controlled Ranger on a mission, because I had no way to actually deal with the last sectoid in time before the soldier would be able to act and probably kill at least two other soldiers (since he still had a frag). It was surprisingly fun to keep trying to think of any alternative solutions before realizing what I would have to do in the end. A situation like this is one of my most memorable in my Commander Ironman play through. It was an avatar though so no chance of killing in time, and it was a ranger with rapid fire. Can't leave that alive, but after downing him he started bleeding out so was able to stabilise him. Shame I got him killed the following turn to a burrowed chrysalid, bugged out after that run of turns.
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Mar 30, 2016 22:06
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:so it's December in Long War, I'm a few days away from finishing Plasma Weapons research and I just moved my first character on a normal abduction mission, still in blue squares, and he triggered five elite mutons, an ethereal, four floaters, two heavy floaters and five seekers. gently caress this game 1. Rocket the elites with your heavy. 2. Double tap kill two of the floaters with your sniper. 3. Bum rush the Ethereal with Run & Gun and Rapid Fire two alloy slugs in his face. 4. Mop up the survivors with your support rangers. 5. Profit. e; oh wait, that's not xcom 1 you're on. 
MariusLecter fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Mar 30, 2016 |
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Mar 30, 2016 22:16
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Mzbundifund posted:Stun Lancers seem pretty out of step with the rest of the difficulty curve. Stun Lancers can run from farther than your guys can see, dodge everything for half damage, and instantly KO a dude for the rest of the mission no matter how high his health is. That's PRETTY bananas. I think the main BS about them is that they can take a full gold move and still jab you. They'd be a lot less bullshit if they could only jab after a blue move, so they'd have to spend a turn getting close enough for a rush.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:07
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They seem to score critical hits a lot too, and I don't think rangers get the same benefit.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:23
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Dr Christmas posted:They seem to score critical hits a lot too, and I don't think rangers get the same benefit. They have 15% crit chance with the lance across difficulties (excepting Rookie, where they don't get any crit chance from difficulty at all), and as far as I can tell their lance attacks do count as melee attacks, disallowing them from getting the flanking bonus for crit. The mod that says it disables flanking crit bonus for stun lancers just zeroes out the eStat_FlankingCritChance, which barring a bug in Firaxis's code (which I'll admit isn't impossible, but I have yet to find anything that indicated they messed up defining the lances), just means they get zero benefit from flanking a soldier if they use their gun. Exposure fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 00:44
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RBA Starblade posted:And if they DO mind control, as long as they don't mind control the only guy who can see him or something it's not hard to kill them and get the controlled guy back. It certainly can be. In the early game on Legend, you can't one shot them from full hp. You need a minimum of two actions to kill them with any sort of reliability which can be tough in some situations. Sectoids aren't usually much of a threat if you manage pod activations well, but if you trigger multiple groups or another pod patrols into you before you can kill the one you're engaged with they can be pretty dangerous.
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Mar 31, 2016 00:54
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So hey, about the radio tower mission - i don't want spoilers, but is a skilled hacker actually needed, or is it just another objective-chest mission?
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Mar 31, 2016 02:57
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Stun Lancers are fair and balanced.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:13
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Sombrerotron posted:How about this for the loading screen? Also, this seems kind of appropriate for any losing screen. My recommendation for the loading screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOZu3NiBjBk and failure screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXVAiRjMrqg
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Mar 31, 2016 03:13
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64bitrobot posted:Stun Lancers are fair and balanced. same but opposite!
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Mar 31, 2016 03:17
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TheParadigm posted:So hey, about the radio tower mission - i don't want spoilers, but is a skilled hacker actually needed, or is it just another objective-chest mission? You do not need a Specialist. I wish I had brought my Sharpshooter instead.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:20
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Mzbundifund posted:You do not need a Specialist. I wish I had brought my Sharpshooter instead. I brought two psi-ops. It went most excellently.
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Mar 31, 2016 03:31
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