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I'm just happy that something finally went right for Marcia Clark after this whole poo poo show, though.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:35
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FlamingLiberal posted:What I don't understand is why Clark didn't look into Furhman's background more closely at the beginning before putting him on the stand. Especially considering Darden's concerns. Even if you think he's being hyperbolic, there was already a lot of smoke around the raging racist fire that is Det. Furhman. Likely because she was looking at Furhman from the point of view of what's relevant to the case - that he was intrinsically connected to the evidence at the murder scene/house and (as shown in the bar scene) there was no way he could have planted the evidence. She absolutely underestimated the Defence's strategy of using his history and background as The World's loving Worst Racist to convince the jury and the court that Fuhrman is unreliable as gently caress. And she definitely did not expect him to go 5th Amendment on everything including whether he planted the evidence. Fuhrman's fuckup is so big he basically destroyed the Prosecution's case after Fung's botching with the DNA. Propaganda Machine posted:This is a bit dumb, but I don't get the whole if-the-glove-don't-fit thing. Even looking at the actual footage, it still looks like the juice could have closed a fist onto a knife and gone stabby-stabby. Am I missing something? The interesting thing is the Prosecution irl really did want him to try on gloves. They bought clean gloves of same model at the same size, but (someone in the Prosecution) decided he should put on the Murder Gloves, not realising that the Defence has quietly tried on and discovered they do not fit. There's some argument that the blood shrunk the gloves, and Clark claims OJ put on a show of fitting them since he snaps them off so easily after. The crucial bit of the Murder Gloves not fitting was because the Prosecution made it the central piece of evidence, and the Defence destroyed it once OJ's massive hands couldn't fit it. That along with the DNA testimony and Fuhrman's racism basically tanked their narrative, leading to OJ's acquittal.
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Mar 31, 2016 05:37
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Santheb posted:I'm just happy that something finally went right for Marcia Clark after this whole poo poo show, though. The worst part is, from everything I can tell, even that is bullshit. It's notoriously difficult for a woman to lose primary custody, and although she is portrayed as Feeling Feelings, it's also made clear that she works for long enough hours that for her to have primary custody isn't responsible. Besides which, her ex-husband is portrayed as having the time and devotion kids would require (not sure how true this was in real life). It's a cute character moment, but for me it just underlines how hosed the American courts are.
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Mar 31, 2016 08:53
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The Saddest Rhino posted:The interesting thing is the Prosecution irl really did want him to try on gloves. They bought clean gloves of same model at the same size, but (someone in the Prosecution) decided he should put on the Murder Gloves, not realising that the Defence has quietly tried on and discovered they do not fit. There's some argument that the blood shrunk the gloves, and Clark claims OJ put on a show of fitting them since he snaps them off so easily after. The big issue with trying on the murder gloves was that he couldn't do it without having rubber gloves on underneath and given that those gloves are designed to fit close to begin with, it would be remarkably difficult, even for someone who wanted to make them fit, to get them on without a struggle. The difficulty in putting them on over the rubber gloves was exactly what the defense wanted the jury to see. Clark had next to no experience trying something of this magnitude and it showed considerably in her complete lack of ability to consider the position of the defense. She did everything in a vacuum as if she were reading some kind of static manual about how to try a case, rather than trying to consider what Cochran was doing in order to counter his actions. She was remarkably naive and played everything as if literally every aspect of the defense would be completely by the book.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:41
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FlamingLiberal posted:What I don't understand is why Clark didn't look into Furhman's background more closely at the beginning before putting him on the stand. Especially considering Darden's concerns. Even if you think he's being hyperbolic, there was already a lot of smoke around the raging racist fire that is Det. Furhman. Heh, with a name like Flaming Liberal you probably already know why. Fuhrman is a psycho, but he's not that much of an outlier for the 90s LAPD. Prosecutors have to work with people like him or they will never be able to do their job. There was a reason Cochran was able to put the LAPD on trial...they were guilty as hell. Of framing OJ? No. But of being completely unworthy of being trusted to be fair and impartial with any black suspect? Yeah, guilty as hell. Clark was okay with it because she relied on men like him every time she went to court. FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 13:56
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True, but you made him your star witness, so when his testimony blew up it took the whole case with him.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:13
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This would be one of the most unbelievable crime dramas on TV right now if it wasn't a true story.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:37
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FadingChord posted:This would be one of the most unbelievable crime dramas on TV right now if it wasn't a true story. That's what makes it so goddamn good!
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Mar 31, 2016 14:38
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FlamingLiberal posted:True, but you made him your star witness, so when his testimony blew up it took the whole case with him. But nobody expected him to implode like that. Plenty of racist cops have had to take the stand and I'm sure a fair number have even merrily purged themselves, all without cracking under cross-examination. Like, Fuhrman's collapse is the stuff of legend precisely because that sort stuff is usually the purview of daytime court dramas, not something that happens in real life. As the posts above me point out, if this story were fiction it'd get panned for being laughably implausible.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:45
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sportsgenius86 posted:The big issue with trying on the murder gloves was that he couldn't do it without having rubber gloves on underneath and given that those gloves are designed to fit close to begin with, it would be remarkably difficult, even for someone who wanted to make them fit, to get them on without a struggle. The difficulty in putting them on over the rubber gloves was exactly what the defense wanted the jury to see. OJ's then-friend Mike Gilbert also claims in his book "How I Helped O.J. Get Away With Murder" that he told OJ to stop taking arthritis medication so his hands would swell up before the fitting.
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Mar 31, 2016 14:53
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Ryan Murphy is going to make a hell of a Trump series in a few years.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:12
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One of my favorite things about this show is it shows how good he can be when he's grounded by stuff like historical reality and can't meddle too much.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:56
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McSpanky posted:OJ's then-friend Mike Gilbert also claims in his book "How I Helped O.J. Get Away With Murder" that he told OJ to stop taking arthritis medication so his hands would swell up before the fitting. Well that book just shot to the top of my list. OmegaBR posted:As this goes on, the most insane thing to me is how this didn't become a mistrial. From what I recall at the time, it seemed like everyone just wanted it to be loving over already. It was legitimately tearing the country up, especially the LA area.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:25
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this isn't a Ryan Murphy show this is a Ryan Murphy-directed show Ryan Murphy is an excellent director because he's a huge, vibrant, melodramatic personality who knows how to translate that into confrontational and effective cinematography, shot direction, and framing Ryan Murphy is a godawful writer because he's a huge, vibrant, melodramatic personality who doesn't listen to outside input and ends up writing exaggerated and unrealistic narratives that end up running away from him, he's like the living embodiment of the logical extreme especially since television is a writer-driven medium, when Murphy ends up directing other people's written work it's usually pretty good (like, for instance, The Normal Heart, a movie he had absolutely zero hand in writing) contrast to stuff like AHS, Nip/Tuck, and Glee and it shows how Murphy continually attempts to top himself and doubles down on his own worst habits until the shows turn into parodies of themselves, because nobody tells him no and he has no sense of restraint Murphy is not nuanced, so it helps that especially in the OJ case it was a lot of things but nuanced was not one of them. the material inherently fits his extreme style because it was, itself, extreme
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Mar 31, 2016 16:36
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Was Ito the only person that could declare a mistrial? It seems like all the prosecution would need to do is just raise the idea that Ito's wife deliberately withheld information that she knew Fuhrman, and they'd be able to get the "do over". Someone on the prosecution (Marcia Clark?) in this last episode disagreed with the idea of going for the "do over" and voiced the possibility of double jeopardy, but I don't understand how that would apply for a mistrial.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:56
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IANAL but from what i remember if the prosecution in a criminal case specifically engineers a mistrial it could be argued from the defense that they specifically engineered the mistrial because they knew they were going to lose and wanted to try the client again. which would be double jeopardy, because it'd be essentially saying "he would've been declared not guilty, but then we had the trial thrown out so we could try him again" whihc, you know, is literally what the prosecution vs OJ would've been doing in that case if they went for a mistrial it's based on presumption of innocence as the backbone of American jurisprudence, since the defense specifically engineering a mistrial wouldn't be the same thing, the defense's client is presumed innocent until proven guilty, so the defense going for mistrial resets the client's guilt (or rather, lack of guilt) back to zero ed: Also, yes, as far as I'm aware presiding judge is the only one who can declare mistrials in court cases, and the instant that Ito recuses himself that's a mistrial because there's no presiding judge NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 17:00
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Yeah the short of it is the Prosecution agitates, or pushes for a mistrial then OJ is protected under double jeopardy. But if the judge does it himself then he isn't.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:10
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How would they even go about jury selection for a second trail, given the massive publicity and expansion of the case into every facet of American culture at the time?
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Mar 31, 2016 17:16
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plainswalker75 posted:How would they even go about jury selection for a second trail, given the massive publicity and expansion of the case into every facet of American culture at the time? For what it's worth, Los Angeles had recently just gone through a very publicized trial with the Menendez Brothers that ended up being retried successfully, though of course it certainly wasn't even close to the OJ trial in terms of publicity.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:40
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Oddly, when I watched the glove fitting moment on TV, that was the moment I was convinced OJ was guilty. The latex had me dismiss the whole "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" thing as an act, but it was the act before that that creeped me out. Here OJ is, trying on the gloves the ostensible killer was wearing to murder the woman he allegedly loved to some degree, and you just had to see his performance for the jury. He oozed charm, smiled, and had utterly no connection to what the gloves represented. That he wasn't in the slightest bit creeped out was the creepy part. Of course, it was an incredible blunder by the prosecution. The gloves had been kept in cold storage and had shrunk. Those gloves are designed to conform to your hand and you must wear them on a regular basis to keep them stretched out to even get them on easily. Then there is the latex gloves. Then there is handing (so to speak) an actor a moment to perform. Any one of those is enough to make you seriously question making him try on the gloves - you already proved he bought gloves like those, and the gloves are the same size that he bought. Furhman was the other obvious big blunder. As to the DNA, I remember it as compelling, not some kind of mistake, but the jury simply didn't have the same experience as a TV watcher. Clark and Darden simply weren't up to the task. I'm interested to see how the actors play the final summation to the jury scenes. Marcia was clearly worn out, and Johnny was at his best. What I have liked about the show is that they allow the various players to have their weaknesses and strengths, their moments of failure and triumph. The approach the writers and producers took of exploring the racial aspects of the trial and place it properly in the context of the time gives the show a greater depth and texture.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:07
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plainswalker75 posted:How would they even go about jury selection for a second trail, given the massive publicity and expansion of the case into every facet of American culture at the time? You'd be surprised at how easy it is to find people who haven't heard about something. Whether or not you'd want them on a jury deciding a man's fate is another question entirely.
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Mar 31, 2016 19:30
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So I guess Investigation Discovery is going to do a whole series on the "OJ's son did it" thing featuring William Dear, with Martin Sheen narrating, with the hope that a grand jury will indict Jason Simpson after it airs in 2017 (I guess like The Jinx did for Robert Durst). http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/31/entertainment/martin-sheen-o-j-simpson-series-feat/index.html
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Apr 1, 2016 00:27
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Maldoror posted:So I guess Investigation Discovery is going to do a whole series on the "OJ's son did it" thing featuring William Dear, with Martin Sheen narrating, with the hope that a grand jury will indict Jason Simpson after it airs in 2017 (I guess like The Jinx did for Robert Durst). "...wore the gloves, of course..."
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Apr 1, 2016 03:33
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Did the son live at Rockingham when the murders happened? I know the daughter did.
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Apr 1, 2016 05:45
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FadingChord posted:This would be one of the most unbelievable crime dramas on TV right now if it wasn't a true story. That Steven Avery trial in the Making a Murderer documentary is about as ridiculous as the OJ case was. I would be interested in seeing a dramatization of that clusterfuck too. Granted it's still on-going (Avery's appeals and such) so it would probably be better if a movie were made later on.
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Apr 1, 2016 09:48
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Maldoror posted:So I guess Investigation Discovery is going to do a whole series on the "OJ's son did it" thing featuring William Dear, with Martin Sheen narrating, with the hope that a grand jury will indict Jason Simpson after it airs in 2017 (I guess like The Jinx did for Robert Durst). This is going to be insane
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Apr 1, 2016 20:39
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zVxTeflon posted:Im really excited about how spectacularly bad ACS: katrina will be. I can see the scene where Cheney orders a levee to be torpedoed now. There is a National Guard member sworn to secrecy about dynamite marks on the levees. That little tidbit fascinated me because living an hour away near Lafayette, I first heard of it word of mouth via family members two days after the storm lifted; like the worst game of Telephone ever. Generally it was about "the old man" [engineer] who was employed to work a pump station or something. They could easily put that in there.
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Apr 6, 2016 02:25
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SoroScrew
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Haha that was really goofy 
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Apr 6, 2016 03:09
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If the glove don't fit...hrm...!
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Apr 6, 2016 03:09
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90 minute episode tonight, gently caress yeah.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:15
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This jury was a group of morons because everything Cochrane says is completely irrelevant
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Apr 6, 2016 03:20
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I really like that this show is going out of it's way to make Fuhrman, a man who is still very much in the public eye, look like The Worst Person In The World
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Apr 6, 2016 03:21
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Who thinks he gets off?
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Apr 6, 2016 03:23
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Yoshifan823 posted:I really like that this show is going out of it's way to make Fuhrman, a man who is still very much in the public eye, look like The Worst Person In The World He is. I literally wouldn't be surprised if he didn't own swastikas like the show suggested
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Apr 6, 2016 03:24
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Yoshifan823 posted:I really like that this show is going out of it's way to make Fuhrman, a man who is still very much in the public eye, look like The Worst Person In The World  "
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Apr 6, 2016 03:26
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I only knew about Johnnie Cochran from what South Park (and Book of Mormon) said, but my opinion of him has done a complete 180 watching this show. Johnnie Cochran is a loving miracle worker.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:30
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No one can believe it 
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Apr 6, 2016 03:31
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Ahahaha Ito "are you making GBS threads me?  "
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Apr 6, 2016 03:33
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ARE YOU making GBS threads ME?
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Apr 6, 2016 03:33
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Don't get your hopes up kids
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Apr 6, 2016 03:39
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