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well, that's certainly transparent
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Mar 31, 2016 11:31
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Holocaust420 posted:US-backed "pro-democracy activists"- the same ones that spearheaded the "revolution" in February 2014- physically assault pensioners in Kiev for waving Soviet flags and protesting against the "democratic" US-backed regime.
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Mar 31, 2016 13:51
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Seselj has just been acquitted of War Crimes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35933468 A lot of the stuff I've read from Glenny et.al. about the Balkan wars of the 90's paint him and his Serbian Radical Party militia (White Eagles) as being responsible for some pretty gruesome stuff from Vukovar onwards. Any Balkan goons got anything to say on this? How is this being viewed in Serbia, Croatia, BiH?
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Mar 31, 2016 14:17
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Nitrox posted:Hahahaha Apart from the conspiracy theory part, it's not actually funny at all. 
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Mar 31, 2016 15:17
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Paladinus posted:Apart from the conspiracy theory part, it's not actually funny at all. I see those picketers though the same lens that i see Westboro Baptist Church or holocaust deniers, it appears that someone else does too.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:30
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Nitrox posted:I see those picketers though the same lens that i see Westboro Baptist Church or holocaust deniers, it appears that someone else does too. Nah, they are mostly just people supplementing their awful pensions with a bit of acting of crowd scenes.
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Mar 31, 2016 15:57
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Nitrox posted:Assaulting elderly protesters is not cool t all, but notice that attackers were focused on taking the signs away and not much else. Unless I'm missing something. OddObserver posted:Nah, they are mostly just people supplementing their awful pensions with a bit of acting of crowd scenes.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:19
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Paladinus posted:
Oh, they probably really love USSR, but people who love USSR are also not likely to go protest w/o "extra encouragement".
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Mar 31, 2016 16:31
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OddObserver posted:Oh, they probably really love USSR, but people who love USSR are also not likely to go protest w/o "extra encouragement".
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Mar 31, 2016 16:34
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Paladinus posted:Oh yeah, throwing paint and bottles at people and calling them Jews is pretty cool, actually, because they are the REAL nazis, not people who've posted this video on the official Azov youtube channel that has a Wolfsangel symbol as its logo. Paladinus posted:Yeah, no.
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Mar 31, 2016 16:53
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Paladinus posted:Oh yeah, throwing paint and bottles at people and calling them Jews is pretty cool, actually, because they are the REAL nazis, not people who've posted this video on the official Azov youtube channel that has a Wolfsangel symbol as its logo.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:08
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Nitrox posted:I didn't see paint and bottles, but I'm watching this on a small phone screen, so I apologize. Not sure who are the parties involved, but young people tend to do stupid poo poo, whether there is an actual pro-fascist association or not. Just because it was posted by Azov channel, does not make them members of any nazi-wannabe far right group that plague western Ukraine. Well, Azov is a distinctly non-Western-Ukrainian flavor of Nazi. And as for people getting paid to protest: there was recently a hilarious story in Russia about a 30-something journalist getting 300 rubles for attending some demonstration as a part of some senior citizens group delegation. (Of course, those sorts of events usually just have people forced to come by their employers).
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Mar 31, 2016 17:11
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Nitrox posted:I didn't see paint and bottles, but I'm watching this on a small phone screen, so I apologize. Also I'm somewhat certain that it is not pure paint, the liquid they fling around seems to be much less viscous than any paint I've used in my life.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:14
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biglads posted:Seselj has just been acquitted of War Crimes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35933468 It's not viewed favorable at all in Croatia. All political parties, who normally can't agree on anything in the world, condemned the court's ruling. The secretary of interior said Seselj will be arrested if he comes to Croatia (he announced that he will, but it was probably a joke). The ruling is really strange. His speeches against Croats and Muslims were interpreted as either inconsequential because he was in opposition, or an attempt to galvanize Serbian fighters without bad intentions. Even the representative of Serbia was surprised with the ruling. There are cynical comments about ICTY arresting Florence Hartmann, someone who wrote about the crimes but releasing Seselj, who committed them.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:15
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kalstrams posted:I hope this will not come of as a surprise, but both sides can be bad. No one here seems to be whitewashing Azov or cheering up the thugs. However, that alone is not going to be reason to support and uphold the ideas of picketers on their quest to prove that Ukrainian history is a science fiction; that Ukrainian nation is social construct invented by the Soviet Union. Absolutely. But in my opinion their right to express those ideas should be protected all the same. OddObserver posted:And as for people getting paid to protest: there was recently a hilarious story in Russia about a 30-something journalist getting 300 rubles for attending some demonstration as a part of some senior citizens group delegation. (Of course, those sorts of events usually just have people forced to come by their employers). It's definitely happening from time to time, but it's the easiest accusation to throw around. Remember that Maidan protesters or protesters in Belarus and Russia were and are also said to have been paid by someone, and in some cases it's true, but ultimately it's irrelevant to how those protests were/are handled by the government and portrayed in media.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:50
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Paladinus posted:
Fair enough, and of course actors should be free to practice their trade free of threat of thugs. (Well, it may actually be against the law in this case, but of course the proper response would be to punish whatever oligarch is bankrolling it... Ahahahaha, right).
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Mar 31, 2016 17:54
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Paladinus posted:Absolutely. But in my opinion their right to express those ideas should be protected all the same.
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Mar 31, 2016 17:55
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kalstrams posted:The thread consensus does not seem to contradict your, or mine opinion on this regard, even though I have mixed feelings about respecting public expression of objectively false concepts. The main purpose of this event is to commemorate the referendum where Ukrainian people voted for staying a part of USSR. Despite that, as we all know, USSR dissolved in a year. For these people, this event signifies the most dramatic event in their lives, loss of their country and their identity to some extent. I may not view it that way, but I can see why they feel how they feel, and recent events most surely don't make them feel safer. You brought up several times how you see marches in remembrance of Latvian Legion as a way for people to remember their fallen comrades and appreciate independence of their country, even though some of the people marching might have some objectively reprehensible ideas, and I feel like there is a parallel to be drawn here. They are just old people who want to remember good old days.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:17
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Paladinus posted:The main purpose of this event is to commemorate the referendum where Ukrainian people voted for staying a part of USSR. Despite that, as we all know, USSR dissolved in a year. For these people, this event signifies the most dramatic event in their lives, loss of their country and their identity to some extent. I may not view it that way, but I can see why they feel how they feel, and recent events most surely don't make them feel safer. Another, and the only thing I make of their goals there, from the video alone, is a poster claiming Ukraine was invented by the Soviet Union, which is what I used to build my argument. In strictly that parallel, Latvian Legion day would have had people advocating that non-White people are sub-humans, in which case I would cheer up if whoever would peacefully shut them down.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:25
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Doctor Malaver posted:It's not viewed favorable at all in Croatia. All political parties, who normally can't agree on anything in the world, condemned the court's ruling. The secretary of interior said Seselj will be arrested if he comes to Croatia (he announced that he will, but it was probably a joke). Thanks. I find his acquittal quite shocking. I find it very hard to believe he wasn't complicit it any way.
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Mar 31, 2016 18:37
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kalstrams posted:Remembering good old days is one thing, feel free to go for it and I'll be glad you have it. The poster says that Ukraine (as in its current territory) is a result of 'sovetisation and communisation', which is technically true. The point of the poster is to highlight what the author thinks is contribution of USSR in creation of independent Ukraine. It says that 'desovetisation' means that Ukrainian territory would still be divided between Russia, Poland, Romania and Hungary. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 20:30
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Paladinus posted:The poster says that Ukraine (as in its current territory) is a result of 'sovetisation and communisation', which is technically true. The point of the poster is to highlight what the author thinks is contribution of USSR in creation of independent Ukraine. It says that 'desovetisation' means that Ukrainian territory would still be divided between Russia, Poland, Romania and Hungary.
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Mar 31, 2016 20:46
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biglads posted:Thanks. I find his acquittal quite shocking. I find it very hard to believe he wasn't complicit it any way.    And some flag burning pics from a recent gallery of his "antics since returning from the Hague". (his earlier release for medical reasons, not the acquittal)   Far as I can tell, only minor parties and NGOs are condemning the aquittal in Serbia. Lots of commentary in the vein of "But Ante Gotovina was acquitted too!" Ugggh, that's enough Serbian politics for today. AceRimmer fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Mar 31, 2016 |
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Mar 31, 2016 21:13
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OK, I saw the verdict, so here I am again for a short while. This'll be fun. Or horribly depressing. That works, too. This is going to be a loooooooooong post.biglads posted:Seselj has just been acquitted of War Crimes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35933468 Man, that article reads like it was originally written with "found guilty on all charges" in mind and then quickly changed to "acquitted" without touching the rest of it. It's absolutely hilarious watching Russia Today switch gears from "The Hagues Tribunal is an abomination" to "Glorious justice rules in the Hagues" and pretending that their previous rhetoric never happened, while US and UK news are switching the other way around and looking for a convenient scapegoat to blame. So far, the concensus seems to be to demonize the lead judge, Antonetti. Which is ridiculous. The funny/tragic thing is, judge Antonetti was absolutely furious at the prosecutors that they put him in a position where he had to let Šešelj go. He really, really, really didn't want to be remembered as one of the people who did it, but the prosecution made such a spectacular fuckup that he was left with no choice because of them not doing their drat jobs. Back when the trial was being publicly broadcasted, I used to watch it. Keep in mind, this was over a decade ago. Most of the time, Šešelj was locked up with very little trial-related things going on, with the general concensus of "Well, he's going to be found guilty eventually anyway, so who cares?" Antonetti loving pleaded the prosecution to get their poo poo together several times, and asked them to focus on proving Šešelj's connection to concrete crimes instead of the fluffy cloud of kinda-sorta-maybe they were providing or sometimes just proving that a war crime happened without showing any evidence at all of Šešelj's connection to it. The verdict may come as a surprise to people who are generally aware of the awful poo poo Šešelj did, but absolutely no surprise to people who actually watched the trial. Now, I'm going to look at several elements of this shitshow, to figure out/show what the hell happened and why. If you read this, I have to ask that you pay close attention, because the devil is in the details here. First of all, Šešelj himself. Unfortunately for us all, Šešelj is an extremely intelligent man, with a keen eye for detail and nuance. Might sound like a strange way to describe a spectacle-loving rabidly nationalist piece of poo poo like him, but stay with me for a moment. He was the youngest person in Yugoslavia to attain a PhD. His books (I encourage you all to look up their titles, they make people with Tourette's look downright polite) are meticulously researched and referenced, and while his conclusions tend to be unpleasant at the best, completely insane at the worst, my father considers the books a treasure trove for discovering old documents related to the history of the region - every single claim Šešelj makes is referenced to something that is, indeed, relevant to the claim. Whether what Šešelj interprets it as and what it really is are the same thing, is a different matter entirely. Which ties into another element of Šešelj's personality. He's a master of the ancient art of "well, technically..." to a degree that would make fishmech look downright pleasant to discuss. Unlike conspiracy theorists, he builds a framework that's really hard to poke a hole in, even with serious effort and research, and especially dangerous if he can confuse you enough to blur the lines between is, was, will be, and should be, because at that point you're going to be implicitly accepting some of his extrinsic premises as being intrinsic to the material discussed, and from that point on you're hosed as far as discussion goes, because he's already won and you just haven't realized that you've a;ready conceeded victory to him. People who are debating him often make the horrible mistake of challenging his facts (even if they're the technically "correct" "facts") that can be a least nominally proven to be correct, rather than challenging the real issue, the suggested course of action originating from them, or bringing out the things which he's leaving out of his narrative, or his suggested reasoning for the intent of those participating in the event being described. Again, he has one of the finest legal minds in Europe, if not the world, and the game of minutiae is the game he was born to play. And, as we just witnessed, he clowned the prosecution in what everyone expected to be a foregone-conclusion lock-the-door-and-throw-the-key-away trial. Why am I saying all of this? Because he was horribly, horribly, horribly underestimated by the prosecution. Which leads us to the second part. The trial itself. It was, in many ways, a mockery of justice, but not just for the immediattely imposing reason. The case was an utter shitshow. I am not an attourney or a law student or anything like that, so you'll have to forgive me for lacking the relevant vocabulary. The best comparison I can come up with is as if the prosecution came ready for a commie sham trial in which they just need to establish the accusation, and a verdict will follow, but suddenly found themselves in an actual court of law where they actually have to prove things, and refused to acknowledge that they're working in a different environment. I watched Šešelj tear expert after expert to pieces, pointing out inconsistencies, and having them back down on what they said in a farcical fashion that sometimes resulted in the judges being unable to stop themselves from chuckling. I watched a prosecution's witness break down and say that he was told that his family might get deported if he refused to testify against Šešelj. I watched that piece of poo poo Šešelj in a position where he was able to take the moral high ground, because the prosecution was just that comically inept. At one point, the main judge basically went, like, OK prosecution, you've proven beyond all reasonable doubt that there was a civil war, that it included armies and militias, and that this man participated in it in some ways, but could you please start providing evidence of him actually participating in the war crimes he's been accused of? They had him up for a joint criminal enterprise, but kept ignoring the bits like "joint enterprise with whom?" Like, there were significant periods of time where the relationship between Milošević and Šešelj was "I'd murder you if I could get away with it" Šešelj was the single strongest opposition leader against Milošević for quite a while. (To be cynical for a bit, they had a nice interplay of "holy poo poo, anything but that guy" voters going between them, but that's just a case of fear exploitation politics rather than a conspiracy.) They accused him of directing militias all over Croatia and Bosnia, but could only prove that he rallied volunteers to join the war and made bog-standard wartime rhetoric, after which he had no way to influence them. Mind you, I'd bet that in a lot of cases he really did influence their actions. I'd also bet that he covered up his tracks really loving well, and has a layer of "well, technically" to keep himself separate from them, but a competent prosecution would be able to deal with that. So, did the prosecution increase their efforts, get better, more reliable witnesses and experts, corner the rear end in a top hat with an insurmountable pile of evidence of his guilt? Hell no. Instead, they tried to force a court appointed attourney on him (judging from other cases where this happened, an incompetent "please sentence my client ASAP" baffoon), refused to translate critical documents, caused needless delays which extended the trial by years, and other things like that. There was even that horrible shitshow with interpreters who kept mistranslating him in a very specific manner, to the point that Šešelj eventually broke the charade of not being able to speak English and called out the interpreter for an intentionally misleading fuckup. Keep in mind, we're talking about the guy who gave the "killing with rusted spoons" interview. They didn't need to mistranslate anything to make him sound any more malicious than he already does, yet it kept happening again and again and again. The more the shitshow went on, the more it looked like Šešelj crimes didn't actually matter to the prosecution, and that the seeming incompetence wasn't actually incompetence. The charges and the process were basically formed in such a way as to indict him for being a Serb and participating in the war, because it was supposed to be the precedent for "Is a Serb, was in the war, therefore is a criminal". And the prosecution's insistence on this waxed and waned in parallel to the relations between Serbia and the US and EU. The judges even pointed out at one point that the criteria laid out by the prosecution would require the sentencing of every single politician active in Yugoslavia at the time. (To be fair, this is something I wouldn't actually mind) I have to say, I am incredibly salty about their inability to nab him for at least his resettlement plans about Vojvodina. I have friends and family on both sides of his "ethnicity A should be moved to country A" exchange (for reference, I'm a Serb, but several of my cousins married Croats, and some of the families in question consider themselves Croatian) and the prosecution couldn't even put it beyond reasonable doubt that his speeches had a significant influence on the departure of quite a few Croatian families from their homes here, for gently caress's sake. So, basically, in the end, the situation was like this: The judges could either strike a blow against justice by letting him go despite being 100% sure that he's an evil piece of poo poo and harming the court's reputation because of it and letting his crimes go unpunished, or striking a blow against justice by sentencing Šešelj despite being 100% sure that the case (as is, thanks to the prosecution) was in his favor and harming the court's reputation because of it and letting crimes someone else did but he got nabbed for go unpunished. Finally, something that isn't directly related to the trial, but might help explain how Šešelj's acts. He's a showman. He loves controversy. He was one of the most active fighters for freedom of speech in Yugoslavia, and wasn't being hypocritical about it - he even argued in favor of a fundie Muslim preacher (citing the old "I think that what you're saying is bullshit, but I'll die for your right to say that bullshit"), and I don't think I need to explain his views on political Islam, or on Yugoslav Muslims in general. One might argue that he was originally arguing against Islam-based nationalism and the dangers of the growing radicalization of Muslim politics, but gently caress giving that rear end in a top hat the benefit of doubt. I'd also say that this is less of a matter of him being "true" to his "principles", and more of a case of wanting to flaunt the crazy Muslim guy as much as possible, because that rear end in a top hat indirectly gives his theories credence. And he knows exactly how far he can go without crossing the legal line - he learned that lesson the hard way as a victim of a commie torture dungeon after he got a bit too loud about his nationalist ideas. I'm pretty sure that torture is what made him turn from being a milquetoast weirdo nationalist who makes a lot of noise but does very little to the insane monster we all know and "love". Ever since he's been released because of his health (he's dying, and but his condition isn't really stopping him from being active, and he's unfortunately trying to make the best use of the time he has left, for a definition of best only he can appreciate) he's been making as much noise as he can. He intentionally did a lot of scandalous things that are however protected by freedom of speech, and despite everyone knowing what he really means by it, there's not much that can be done about it. So, burning Croatian flags, EU flags, NATO flags, Albanian flags, etc. is one of his favorite passtimes. Completely legal, too, as it should be, but good loving luck explaining the difference between "He shouldn't be arrested for it" and "We endorse it" to the people who are upset about it. He also likes posting pictures on instagram, with fine captions like "enjoying a fine day for slaughter". Why, pig slaughter, obviously, here's a picture of some sausages, what makes you think that an upstanding citizen such as him might be implying anything else? All in all, he's embracing his own villainous reputation, and relishing in it to cause harm even now. He also earns a shitton of money giving interviews for right-wing media in the neighboring countries, mostly in Croatia and Albania, trying to look as important as possible, and making comments like "We're coming for you. Soon I'll have complete control! You'll see!" (For the record, his party gets almost no votes, and the other major far right party, Dveri, which is also failing to get enough votes to enter the parliament, severed all ties to him) It's one of those lovely right-wing feedback loops where right-wing A gives right-wing B as much spotlight as possible in order to radicalize population A against population B, and right-wing B doesn't mind because the inevitable results of A's radicalization will help radicalize population B. And now we get that rear end in a top hat back, permanently, with him being able to parade around saying how he was right all along, and being technically correct in saying that. gently caress you, Hagues Tribunal, gently caress you. Finally, Serbo-Croatian speakers, have Njuz.net's take on this oh-so-joyous event.
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Mar 31, 2016 21:16
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So, basically, the prosecution hosed it up so badly that the only way the trial could have seen like a victory had been if he died in custody like Milosevic?
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Mar 31, 2016 22:14
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loving Europeans can't do anything right. Americans came in at the end of WWII prosecuted, convicted and hanged a bunch of Nazis and Nazi collaborators and these chucklefucks can't get one deranged Serbian nationalist. Just turn over the prosecutors office at the international tribunal to the Americans already. They may not recognize its authority but by God they'll get some goddmaned convictions.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:43
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kalstrams posted:Remembering good old days is one thing, feel free to go for it and I'll be glad you have it. The most hilarious thing about your post is that the people you're defending- the Azov batallion- openly proclaim non-White people as subhuman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion quote:Richard Sakwa writing about the battalion's ideology points out that its founding member Andryi Biletsky, leader of the extremist Social Nationalist Assembly made statements about "historic mission" to lead "White Races of the world in a final crusade for their survival...a crusade against the Semite-led untermenschen"; according to Sakwa, this ideology has its root in national integralism of 1920s and 30s.[51] These people are supported financially and militarily by the US government. Source is from the Jerusalem post (a well-known pro-Putin shill organization  )http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-lifts-ban-on-funding-neo-Nazi-Ukrainian-militia-441884 quote:The news that the Azov Battalion is now legally able to receive American aid has enraged the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which last week successfully blocked the battalion from holding a recruitment meeting in Nantes, France. I guess Putin's managed to buy off the Simon Wiesenthal Center too, right?  Classic KGB tactics. By the way, the reason why the pensioners were protesting wasn't because of their burning hatred for Ukraine- actually, it was because ever since the IMF's economic "reforms", the majority of Ukraine's population has slunk into desperate, extreme poverty. Pensions in Ukraine are now around $2 a day, barely enough to pay for food, much less essential medicine. The Hryvna, which used to be worth 8 for every 1 US dollar, is now worth 26 for every dollar- making real incomes around a third of what they were before the "revolution". Supporting reactionary extremists has always been a mainstay of US foreign policy. To ensure that the pillage of a country can proceed without any resistance from the population, any grassroots resistance movement must be brutally stamped out. Azov are no different from Reagan's Contras, or from Obama's "moderate" Al Nusra terrorists in Syria.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:43
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So which stupid Putin loving human being's rereg are you? Babychoom? Teodor? That other guy who posted incessantly but who's name escapes me now? Azov fascist, so what? Russia's worse you retard.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:46
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A Pale Horse posted:So which stupid Putin loving human being's rereg are you? Babychoom? Teodor? That other guy who posted incessantly but who's name escapes me now? It's a gimmick account that was active in the middle east thread last night, too. Just ignore it.
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Mar 31, 2016 22:50
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kalstrams posted:Yeah, I've read what poster says as well, and I believe that it attributes too much to the USSR and nothing to the Ukrainian people, even if we do not slip into details. I feel that notions that I believe to be expressed may be relevant here since they are in line with some of the propaganda that is being much more aggressively pushed post-revolution. In part, however, where I may as well be more mistaken than on the whole here, since the poster does not convey the idea in a clear way, I also do consider older generation to be rather gullible to such revisionism, even though anyone can be convinced of anything, just have enough effort put into it. Ukrainian people, in their mind, were a part of sovetisation, an internationalist movement. Again, they commemorate a Ukrainian referendum where Ukrainian people voted IN and not OUT. Those protesters themselves are Ukrainian people, after all. Most of them probably have some bad ideas on Stalin or Holodomor, but gladly they decided not to show it.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:03
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:It's a gimmick account that was active in the middle east thread last night, too. Just ignore it. Is Graham Philips out of Latvian jail yet? Maybe he registered to gently caress with BM.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:04
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I do not believe that there are sufficient grounds for me to arrive to your conclusion regarding the poster, Paladinus, so let's just leave it at that to avoid circular argument. A Pale Horse posted:Is Graham Philips out of Latvian jail yet? Maybe he registered to gently caress with BM.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:08
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Paladinus posted:Ukrainian people, in their mind, were a part of sovetisation, an internationalist movement. Again, they commemorate a Ukrainian referendum where Ukrainian people voted IN and not OUT. Those protesters themselves are Ukrainian people, after all. Most of them probably have some bad ideas on Stalin or Holodomor, but gladly they decided not to show it. According to the ideology of Ukrainian neo-fascism professed by Azov and people like kalstrams, those pensioners aren't Ukrainians- they are blood traitors to the Ukrainian nation. quote:In the interview with Foreign Policy, the Azov commander Biletsky (now Ukrainian Senator) states: http://www.globalresearch.ca/if-the...ttalion/5416136
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Mar 31, 2016 23:18
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That's a satiric website, right? ...Right?
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Mar 31, 2016 23:23
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Holocaust420 posted:According to the ideology of Ukrainian neo-fascism professed by Azov and people like kalstrams, those pensioners aren't Ukrainians- they are blood traitors to the Ukrainian nation. You're not wrong about Azov's ideology, but don't link globalresearch.ca and expect to be taken seriously.
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Mar 31, 2016 23:23
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You can find the original interview on foreignpolicy.com http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/30/preparing-for-war-with-ukraines-fascist-defenders-of-freedom/
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Mar 31, 2016 23:26
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:It's a gimmick account that was active in the middle east thread last night, too. Just ignore it. Signing praises of Assad, perhaps?
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Apr 1, 2016 00:41
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my dad posted:OK, I saw the verdict, so here I am again for a short while. This'll be fun. Or horribly depressing. That works, too. This is going to be a loooooooooong post. Thanks for this. Too bad I can't link to your post since D&D is blocked by pay wall. Many people here just see it as "evil mad Hague court" and would benefit from your analysis. Rincewinds posted:So, basically, the prosecution hosed it up so badly that the only way the trial could have seen like a victory had been if he died in custody like Milosevic? That's not the first time. They charged Croatian general Gotovina for crimes that happened when Croatia liberated "Krajina" and they acquitted him. Which is good because he was the wrong guy accused of the wrong crime with wrong evidence... but they should've instead charged the right people and give them proper sentences. So another fuckup by prosecution. Doctor Malaver fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 00:41
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Brown Moses posted:I'll be at the Dutch House of Representatives on Thursday with the Atlantic Council presenting our work on Russia's war in Ukraine and MH17, for anyone who wants to tune in (if they broadcast that sort of thing) Hey BM, if you happened to notice a somewhat disheveled looking gentleman in the room, I swung by to see this in person. What are your feelings about this meeting? I thought the presentation was well done but I had hoped the discussion afterward would be more engaging. I have always found that Dutch politicians pussyfoot around international security issues. Do you feel that, in your conversations with them, they seem to take the Russian strategy seriously enough?
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Apr 1, 2016 01:25
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OddObserver posted:Signing praises of Assad, perhaps? More the ol' "Gaddafi Did Nothing Wrong" schtick.
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Apr 1, 2016 05:22
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