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Love is actually good.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:07 |
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# ? May 19, 2024 15:17 |
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:The play ends with them dying because they're dumbasses, imo. It's because they're teenagers, but I guess pretty much the same thing
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:13 |
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And not like 16-17 teenagers, but 13-14 teenagers.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:14 |
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The play ends with them dying because their families hate each other, and they have to consummate their passions through suicide. This is pretty simple. Vendettas were common between Italian families. Do you think the contemporaries wouldn't have considered suicide for romance to be selfish in an obstinate teenager way?
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:27 |
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Besides, the whole drat play is choke full of comparisons of death to love and vice versa.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:30 |
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steinrokkan posted:Do you think the contemporaries wouldn't have considered suicide for romance to be selfish in an obstinate teenager way? Doubtful, because there is nothing in the play itself to support that reading. Romeo and Juliet's love is something that allows them to transcend the blood feud that surrounds them. Their love and desperation is never condemned. The whole "they're just dumb selfish teenagers" narrative is a pop factoid that requires mentally editing the play. You need to ignore passages like this, where Romeo wants to leave behind himself: quote:JULIET Isn't this the opposite of selfishness? Here the play offers culprits for the deaths of Romeo and Juliet: quote:PRINCE Romeo and Juliet died because of the selfishness of their families and the inaction of better men. Contemporaries would've gotten this, because they're not deaf. BravestOfTheLamps has a new favorite as of 07:57 on Apr 1, 2016 |
# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:47 |
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Isn't this the opposite of selfishness? It would be extremely selfish in a culture that valued dynastic interests over personal pleasure, and that also firmly believed in being beholden to the legacy of your ancestors. Especially seeing that they act basically on a whim. I think this is why death and love are equated in RaJ, their naive, egotistical fling makes them dead for the world, cuts them away from the fabric of society. And to read that as transcendence is, Imo, a modern bias.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 07:57 |
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steinrokkan posted:It would be extremely selfish in a culture that valued dynastic interests over personal pleasure, and that also firmly believed in being beholden to the legacy of your ancestors. Especially seeing that they act basically on a whim. I think this is why death and love are equated in RaJ, their naive, egotistical fling makes them dead for the world, cuts them away from the fabric of society. And to read that as transcendence is, Imo, a modern bias. There's also the bit where Romeo is literally in love with another random Capulet when the play starts.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:16 |
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steinrokkan posted:It would be extremely selfish in a culture that valued dynastic interests over personal pleasure, and that also firmly believe in being beholden to the legacy of your ancestors. Especially seeing that they act basically on a whim. I think this is why death and love are equated in RaJ, their naive, egotistical fling makes them dead for the world, cuts them away from the fabric of society. And to read that was transcendence is, Imo, a modern his. Again, where is this in Romeo and Juliet? Let's see what the play itself has to say about "dynastic interests": Romeo and Juliet posted:PRINCE You can also look at a previous English-language adaptation of the story: Romeus and Juliet posted:There were two ancient stocks, which Fortune high did place Their families are selfish and violent, and this is recognized as a bad thing. Contemporaries would have recognized the idea of factional strife and family feuds. This was of course not foreign to Elizabethans, but the vicious family feud would have been somewhat exotic to them. The lovers' youth would have also been curious for them, since they would have married much later. The spontaneity of Romeo's and Juliet's love is contrasted against the designs of Juliet's parents: quote:BENVOLIO quote:CAPULET quote:LADY CAPULET quote:CAPULET Of course contemporaries would have understood the weight of family interests and status - which is exactly why they found these stories appealing! You can even go back to Pyramus and Thisbe, from Metamorphoses, which was a standard text for Elizabethans: quote:The fatal cause was now at last explor'd, All-devouring, desperate love is something that people have found admirable throughout the ages. Tiberius Thyben posted:There's also the bit where Romeo is literally in love with another random Capulet when the play starts. Again, there is nothing to say that they're perfect lovers. On the other hand, that part specifically shows Romeo's transition from fanciful fretting to consuming love. BravestOfTheLamps has a new favorite as of 08:36 on Apr 1, 2016 |
# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:31 |
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PYF 9th grade english lecture
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:40 |
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Maybe both sides are selfish in their own way, one being blinded by their feud, the other by their love. Ultimately brother Lsurence attempts to unite the contradictory egos of the families and the lovers through the traditional instrument of marriage, but it fails, exposing the foolishness of both the warring families, and the lovers acting recklessly out of an erotic impulse.
steinrokkan has a new favorite as of 08:50 on Apr 1, 2016 |
# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:43 |
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I like to imagine that it's the same Friar from Much Ado and that he's either emboldened by the success of his plan in that one and thinks faking her death will work again. OR Much Ado comes after, and he's already had to move to a different city and change his name but old habits die hard…
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:47 |
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steinrokkan posted:Maybe both sides are selfish in their own way, one being blinded by their feud, the other by their life. Ultimately brother Lsurence attempts to unite the contradictory egos of the families and the lovers through the traditional instrument of marriage, but it fails, exposing the foolishness of both the warring families, and the lovers acting recklessly out of an erotic impulse. Obviously you can condemn them for acting rashly (it's just common sense), but the play doesn't do so explicitly. Again, it's best to look at the actual text first. Laurence considers himself at fault for helping them elope, not because it was improper, but because it led to their deaths: Romeo and Juliet posted:FRIAR LAURENCE e: And Laurence doesn't try to "unite the contradictory egos," his plan is to fake Juliet's death so that she and Romeo can lead new lives in Mantua. BravestOfTheLamps has a new favorite as of 09:34 on Apr 1, 2016 |
# ? Apr 1, 2016 08:52 |
During his youth, Napoleon even got in the sappy romance novel game and published his own sort of middling doomed romance novel loosely baised on his his life up that point and his soldier fantasies.
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 14:22 |
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Some more thoughts about Love and Romeo and Juliet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J4hoAatGRQ
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# ? Apr 1, 2016 15:30 |
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We used to have a "poo poo I just figured out" thread; I didn't see it in the first three pages so I'm assuming it's been mercifully killed. I just figured out that Roger Bacon the very clever monk, Francis Bacon the very clever proto-scientist, and Francis Drake the pirate/explorer were all different people living at different times. Shame on me.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 06:48 |
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There's also a 20th century painter called Francis Bacon, who is distinct from the gentlemen you mentioned.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 08:29 |
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And yet another guy, the Earl of Bacon Lettuce & Tomato, was the inventor of the sandwich.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 14:16 |
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I like the idea of them also being the same guy, that dude would be p. awesome
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 14:22 |
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I think at least two of those people are Kevin Bacon. How else does he manage to star in more movies than have ever been made?
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 14:38 |
Phy posted:We used to have a "poo poo I just figured out" thread; I didn't see it in the first three pages so I'm assuming it's been mercifully killed. Francis Drake was also one of the last persons to visit the Roanoke colony before the colonists disappeared.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 15:08 |
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Phy posted:We used to have a "poo poo I just figured out" thread; I didn't see it in the first three pages so I'm assuming it's been mercifully killed. Alhazred posted:Francis Drake was also one of the last persons to visit the Roanoke colony before the colonists disappeared. All the same guy. Who was also a time-travelling mass-killer.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 16:35 |
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gleebster posted:All the same guy. Who was also a time-travelling mass-killer. As he leaves the colony he whispers a final edict: "CROATOAN".
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 17:47 |
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Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Krugman are three different people.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 19:20 |
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Platystemon posted:Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Krugman are three different people. Ron Paul, Paul Ryan and Andrew Ryan are also all different people and none of them are any of the above mentioned people either. I genuinely get these people mixed up all the time
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 19:26 |
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MMM Whatchya Say posted:Ron Paul, Paul Ryan and Andrew Ryan are also all different people and none of them are any of the above mentioned people either. I can kind of understand this one, since there have been plenty of times I wanted to beat Ron Paul and Paul Ryan to death with a golf club.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 20:31 |
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Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes were both internationally renowned 20th-century economists, but neither of them has any connection to the naming of the city of Milton Keynes.
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 20:31 |
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Phy posted:We used to have a "poo poo I just figured out" thread; I didn't see it in the first three pages so I'm assuming it's been mercifully killed. No, its undead cadaver lurches ever onward in search of faaaaaaaake etymoooooologieeeees...
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 21:05 |
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Jo Joestar posted:Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes were both internationally renowned 20th-century economists, but neither of them has any connection to the naming of the city of Milton Keynes. Actually the city takes its name from the village of Milton Keynes a few miles away. The area was owned by the de Cahaines family who later Anglicised their name to Keynes (the village was then known as Middleton Keynes, Middleton being an old word for "town"). It isn't known if John Maynard Keynes was a descendant of this family but in a weird and roundabout way he does have a connection to the citys name!
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# ? Apr 4, 2016 21:09 |
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Who's the greatest racehorse of all time? Secretariat? Man o' War? The Australian superhorse Phar Lap? Nope. It's Eclipse. Eclipse was an undefeated 18th century superstar, so thoroughly dominating the track that he was forced into retirement when no one would run against him. He frequently won by margins of 10-20 furlongs. A furlong, for those who are not into racing, is 1/8 mile/201.1m. These were tough, grueling races set at 3 miles and more. The cry from the track as he galloped home was usually "Eclipse first, the rest--nowhere!" Where he really made an impact was in breeding. It's estimated that 95% of all modern thoroughbreds are descended from him. He also passed on something else: the so-called 'X Factor'. This shows up in outstanding, fast horses who completely dominate their racing contemporaries. The surest sign of this can only be found after death. Horses who have the X Factor have enormous hearts, usually 40% or more larger than normal. Eclipse had this, as did Man o'war, Secretariat, and yes, Phar Lap. Phar Lap's great heart can be seen at the National Museum of Australia. Eclipse's skeleton is at the Royal Veterinary College. One other odd fact: All of these great horses were bright red chestnuts, a color that people deliberately bred away from because they were considered too 'flighty' to make good mounts.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 01:34 |
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Khazar-khum posted:Phar Lap's great heart can be seen at the National Museum of Australia. Phar Lap's skeleton can be seen in Te Papa Tongarewa, the Museum of New Zealand (the country in which he was born). It's quite something.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 01:42 |
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The Mentalizer posted:I can kind of understand this one, since there have been plenty of times I wanted to beat Ron Paul and Paul Ryan to death with a golf club. Add Rand Paul to the mix and would you kindly pass me a 9 iron?
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 03:38 |
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Phyzzle posted:And yet another guy, the Earl of Bacon Lettuce & Tomato, was the inventor of the sandwich. Fun Facts: The title of Earl of Sandwich didn't come about for several decades after Francis Bacon's death. Also, he was a real person, who while remembered now as the namesake of the sandwich was actually a really important and prominent figure in his time for other reasons (the Sandwich Islands are named after him for instance): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Montagu,_4th_Earl_of_Sandwich
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 05:41 |
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Add Rand Paul to the mix and would you kindly pass me a 9 iron? Quite frankly, all six of them, Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Andrew Ryan, Ayn Rand, Rand Paul, and Paul Krugman, could use a 9 iron.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 06:00 |
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What does everyone have against RuPaul?
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 07:28 |
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Khazar-khum posted:Who's the greatest racehorse of all time? Secretariat? Man o' War? The Australian superhorse Phar Lap? A race horse bred from Eclipse was Potoooooooo or Pot-8-Os, because a stable lad didn't understand the correct name Potatoes when ordered to write it on a feed bin.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 07:59 |
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Helios Grime posted:A race horse bred from Eclipse was Potoooooooo or Pot-8-Os, because a stable lad didn't understand the correct name Potatoes when ordered to write it on a feed bin. To be fair to the stable lad, Potatoes is an loving awful name for a racehorse.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 09:25 |
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Mr. Flunchy posted:To be fair to the stable lad, Potatoes is an loving awful name for a racehorse. Yeah, horse is much better with onions.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 09:42 |
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Mr. Flunchy posted:To be fair to the stable lad, Potatoes is an loving awful name for a racehorse. Yeah, racehorses need names like 24 Carrot Seven, Lettuce Prey, and Raspberry Perfect.
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 12:10 |
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# ? May 19, 2024 15:17 |
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Or Hoof Hearted
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# ? Apr 5, 2016 12:29 |