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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah, there's usually similar "plot holes" in any film if you're dumb enough to put aside your suspension of disbelief and examine the film on a level it wasn't meant to be examined. I'm going to say that example wasn't actually a plot hole because it was in character and the fact that he tried to kill a baby with magic tells you something about him and the Harry Potter universe- i.e. he's an evil wizard who can sling some wicked mojo, doesn't think twice about killing people with magic, and uses magic to do his dirty work. Sure he could kill a baby with his bare hands, but that's not his usual MO and he had no reason to suspect it wouldn't work. It's like pointing out that an assassin with a gun who'd just shot a bunch of dudes to get at his defenseless target also chose to shoot the target and had a jam/misfire. He could have chosen to strangle the target instead, but without prior knowledge why would he? Harry Potter has plenty of plot holes, but that isn't one of them!
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Apr 1, 2016 21:44
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Zzulu posted:What was so confusing about MoS? Why did Lex Luthor try to secretly smuggle the Kryptonite if his whole plan was for Batman to take it. Why did he even bother to stop Batman from taking it from the truck. Why not be like "Batman is gonna try to steal this, let him" Why not just be like "hey Batman, its Lex, you hates Supes too? Cool, have this Kryptonite"
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Apr 1, 2016 21:44
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Zzulu posted:counter argument: all the spuperpman movies are really bad and cheesy and bad a counter argument doesn't work if it's wrong...jeez get a load of THIS guy.
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Apr 1, 2016 21:45
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Zzulu posted:What was so confusing about MoS? What do any of the vague questions being asked in the first half of the movie have to do with each other or the second half of the movie? I mean the closest connection is Pa Kent's impassioned speeches to Clark about how important it is to let other people die when you can easily save them and Superman allowing Metropolis to be destroyed
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Apr 1, 2016 21:51
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:What do any of the vague questions being asked in the first half of the movie have to do with each other or the second half of the movie? That bothered me. Supes is like "Maybe all Superman every was was the dream of a farmer from Kansas" Pa Kent was explicitly against everything Superman was. His whole thing was "Hide. Don't be Superman"
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Apr 1, 2016 22:06
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"It's impossible to write a character that is unquestionably good and heroic" declares incredibly dumb motherfucker who has never heard of Professor Xavier, Spiderman, Superman, or Captain America. "People want hosed up daddy issues, dream sequences, no superhero action for the first 90 minutes, and a love interest that makes no sense because the lead is a total loving dick who just hurts people" the Dawn of Justice fan added, furiously beating off to Ang Lee's Hulk.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:22
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Why did Lex Luthor try to secretly smuggle the Kryptonite if his whole plan was for Batman to take it. Batman's whole shtick is that he assumes he's got everything figured out and he's a better judge of right and wrong than anyone else and that the slightest hint of deception will set off his bat paranoia. I'm guessing that if Lex ever gave away any hint that he was manipulating Batman to follow this path or that he was making it easy for him in any way then Batman would have gotten suspicious and possibly backed off and reconsidered the situation. Also it probably just amused Lex to completely bamboozle The World's Greatest Detective for almost two years. Also Lex just loves to set up his employees to get killed in order to make his plan seem more convincing, as he did with the guys in the convoy but also with Mercy at the senate hearing. He really doesn't give a poo poo about them, all he cares about is setting up his weapons of choice to knock down Superman. Edit: also they wanted to have a crazy angry Batman who kills people and is GRRR ANGRY I KILL U at Superman but then make a complete 180 degree switch by the end of the movie and they explain it away here by going "He was crazy mad but Lex manipulated him to be like that, it was Lex's fault and not Batman's." Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Apr 1, 2016 |
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Apr 1, 2016 22:27
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Why can't they just make a good hulk movie. It shouldn't be so hard Hollywood movies are all about huge destruction these days and nothing screams that as much as the Hulk Step 1: Make Bruce Banner interesting, have Bryan Cranston or someone with a presence on screen play him Step 2: Everything gets smashed - the army, the invading aliens, the antagonist rival and at least one huge mech Step 3: dont make it only super serious grimdark serious all the time, add some levity to the hulkmanpunchman movie, that's what people liked about him in the Avengers as well
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Apr 1, 2016 22:29
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:"It's impossible to write a character that is unquestionably good and heroic" declares incredibly dumb motherfucker who has never heard of Professor Xavier, Spiderman, Superman, or Captain America. The funny thing is, a Superman wrestling with the responsibility of being the most powerful single being in existence and how to use that power would be interesting and a pretty good movie. The problem is that they never make that movie. Its not about someone wrestling with how to best do right, its about a guy being a loving blue prick. Snowglobe of Doom posted:Batman's whole shtick is that he assumes he's got everything figured out and he's a better judge of right and wrong than anyone else and that the slightest hint of deception will set off his bat paranoia. I'm guessing that if Lex ever gave away any hint that he was manipulating Batman to follow this path or that he was making it easy for him in any way then Batman would have gotten suspicious and possibly backed off and reconsidered the situation. Also it probably just amused Lex to completely bamboozle The World's Greatest Detective for almost two years. Or alternatively it was a poo poo movie with a poo poo script and you are trying to create your own narrative for it to make sense in the cavernous space of unexplained details and motivations
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Apr 1, 2016 22:32
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Zzulu posted:Why can't they just make a good hulk movie. It shouldn't be so hard Hulk doesn't work in a movie for the same reason the Punisher doesn't work in a movie. Punisher and Hulk best succeed as pure Id. Hollywood storytelling requires the hero to be identifiable and sympathetic to the audience, "save the cat" and all that. You cannot have Hulk or Punisher be your main protagonist and still have them work effectively in the narrative because they need would to be softened. Its why Hulk works best in Avengers and Punisher works best in Daredevil. The sympathetic protagonist can be someone else and they can be the dudes who just smash poo poo and be radical.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:37
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I think, right at the start of the movie, Superman should have flown around the world really fast and killed all the people in the world,
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Apr 1, 2016 22:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Hulk doesn't work in a movie for the same reason the Punisher doesn't work in a movie. Punisher and Hulk best succeed as pure Id. The punisher was the best thing about the Devilman show and they could totes have made a movie around that character. It's all about how you approach it. Ultimately the hulk is just a guy with involuntary superpower and you can do whatever story with that you want
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Apr 1, 2016 22:38
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Zzulu posted:The punisher was the best thing about the Devilman show and they could totes have made a movie around that character. It's all about how you approach it. Ultimately the hulk is just a guy with involuntary superpower and you can do whatever story with that you want Not really though. Think about how the series ends in the cabin. Karen says "kill him, and you're dead to me, etc. etc." Punisher kills him anyways and its a defining moment of the character. If he were the main protagonist, no way would he have done the same thing. He would have spared that guy "just this once" because protagonists have to be emotionally accessible to the audience. The main hero just will not kill an unarmed and defeated man in cold blood, its against screenwriting 101. I am not saying you can't do it differently, but the tropes of Hollywood screenwriting basically mean no one will ever do it like that. Even when Deadpool breaks that rule at the end of his movie its down explicitly for laughs, it wouldn't work in a less absurdist portrayal.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:42
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well i mean there ARE punisher movies and he does kill unarmed people in those constantly The opening scene to Warzone is the punisher killing a bunch of old people including a disabled gangster in a wheelchair. That movie was pure cheese though and I'd like to see something in the vein of the daredevil show but for 90 min
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Apr 1, 2016 22:47
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Zzulu posted:well i mean there ARE punisher movies and he does kill unarmed people in those constantly And they were all critical and commercial failures
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Apr 1, 2016 22:48
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Zzulu posted:Batman Begins was boring. Who was even the villain in that movie? Some guy on a train? Batman Begins was the best Nolan Batman movie.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:49
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A Hulk movie could work if you actually made Banner feel like the protagonist instead of an obstacle
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Apr 1, 2016 22:51
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The best superhero movies are built around the villains anyway, none of the hulk movies had good villains or an interesting obstacle for the hulk to overcome
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Apr 1, 2016 22:53
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unless you count Hulk Poodle as a good villain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQlEr20uhv8
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Apr 1, 2016 22:54
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Zzulu posted:The best superhero movies are built around the villains anyway, none of the hulk movies had good villains or an interesting obstacle for the hulk to overcome If that were true all the Marvel movies would be awful except for Thor
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Apr 1, 2016 22:54
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well they are, Except Captain America 2, which was a little cool in places. Mostly because of the Winter Soldier TBH
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Apr 1, 2016 22:55
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Zzulu posted:The best superhero movies are built around the villains anyway, none of the hulk movies had good villains or an interesting obstacle for the hulk to overcome The Hulk is his own villain, it's why he works in Avengers 1
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Apr 1, 2016 23:01
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Or alternatively it was a poo poo movie with a poo poo script and you are trying to create your own narrative for it to make sense in the cavernous space of unexplained details and motivations Nah it was definitely a poo poo script. I'm pretty sure they went about it rear end backwards by thinking up a cool ending ("Superman and Batman are fighting and they're really going at it and trying to kill each other!") which didn't fit their standard characterizations so they had to think of a lovely cheap way of getting out of that situation ("YUU HAVE TO SAVE MAAAAARTHA!  ") and then come up with even shittier reasons to explain why they got into that situation in the first place:"But Batman never kills?" "Nah, he does now." "But Batman is the World's Greatest Detective and would figure out Lex's plan?" "Nah, he's crazy obsessed because he got 9/11ed so he's not thinking straight." "But Batman and Superman were contemporaries who grew and evolved concurrently and slowly established a mutual respect and admiration over the years?" "Nah, Bats is old here." "But Superman would never feel lost and alone because he always had his super friends to fall back on?" "Nah, he's pushed into the spotlight without knowing about them now." "But Superman always knew that Batman was on the same side he was, even if he didn't agree with his methods all the time?" "Nah he's totally opposed to him now." Etc etc..
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Apr 1, 2016 23:03
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I wanted to watch it but after the initial reviews came out I decided against. I thought I'd wait until the hard copy release, then I was told they'd include half an hour that they'd cut out of the theatrical release.Then I thought that I could watch the Blade Runner theatrical release in twice that time, three hours of bored Harrison Ford or three hours of active Ben Affleck...
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Apr 1, 2016 23:53
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Rocket Baby Dolls posted:I wanted to watch it but after the initial reviews came out I decided against. I thought I'd wait until the hard copy release, then I was told they'd include half an hour that they'd cut out of the theatrical release.Then I thought that I could watch the Blade Runner theatrical release in twice that time, three hours of bored Harrison Ford or three hours of active Ben Affleck... just wait until it comes to second run theaters imo
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Apr 2, 2016 00:03
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Apr 2, 2016 00:09
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LGD posted:just wait until it comes to second run theaters imo Where I live it's always second run even on the first run.
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Apr 2, 2016 00:09
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Rocket Baby Dolls posted:Where I live it's always second run even on the first run. do you live in the future
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Apr 2, 2016 00:37
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The funny thing is, a Superman wrestling with the responsibility of being the most powerful single being in existence and how to use that power would be interesting and a pretty good movie. The problem is that they never make that movie. Its not about someone wrestling with how to best do right, its about a guy being a loving blue prick. Agreed- while I don't think it's the only solution to 'how do you make a good Superman story', understanding that there can and should be an internal struggle in Superman is very powerful, and anyone who thinks the problem with Superman is that 'his powers are too good!' doesn't understand how stories work. Superman is powerful enough to be everywhere constantly righting wrongs- but in doing so that would make him a fascist. Superman could spend every moment of his life doing good, but is there an importance to being Clark Kent and connecting to humanity? Superman does spend all his time and energy trying to make the world just and fair, but he discovers even he cannot change humanity- does he fall in to despair? Those are all good questions that I'm sure have formed the backbone of really good Superman stories over the years- I feel comfortable guessing this because if I can figure those out story-lines and I'm a dummy. Also having Supes worry about these internal questions might actually give him some purpose in these movies? A reason for us to care when he's on screen? IDK. It'd maybe make him more compelling than the seemingly empty shell we have now that has Jesus imagery projected on to him while internally seeming to only care about banging Lois, getting terrible advice from his parents, and is unhappy with Batman for no reason.
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Apr 2, 2016 01:40
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someone mentioned this scene earlier https://imgur.com/qQ5IPLA this kind of cornball would've been way better I think like, why not, why not just be positive and happy. Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 03:54
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Mozi posted:Ah yes, I remember all those times from the comics where the Joker would call up somebody just to say 'gently caress you.' 
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Apr 2, 2016 04:07
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I had that coloring book as a kid. The Joker's nefarious plan was to go up to random celebrities and ask them for their autograph and then forge their signatures on checks. Why steal forty cakes when you can charge them to Ben Affleck?
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Apr 2, 2016 04:19
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gently caress
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Apr 2, 2016 05:51
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Wow... I got back from seeing this tonight and I feel like I need to say a lot of things but it's so difficult because this film feels so directionless compared to Man of Steel, a film I didn't love but I managed to still really like. Something about the film feels really cheap and quickly put together in a way I can't really explain, and a very large part of me really thinks you could have flipped this plot around a lot and salvaged the movie. There's some good ideas in there that are just executed very poorly. In fact, I sort of wish the Bruce and Luthor plots were flipped around. Heck, I sort of wished they'd gotten someone else to play Batman and a bald Affleck had buffed up to play a menacing and imposing modern Lex. None of the dream sequence/flashback/flash forward stuff actually mattered to me and you could have had all of it told or explained in another way. I don't mind another retelling of the Batman origin, because, quite frankly, it's literally only a few minutes of the film. I sort of liked Eisenberg in the film, though.
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Apr 2, 2016 06:11
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JediTalentAgent posted:Wow... I got back from seeing this tonight and I feel like I need to say a lot of things but it's so difficult because this film feels so directionless compared to Man of Steel, a film I didn't love but I managed to still really like. Eisenberg himself was fine- I really don't have a problem with Zuckerberg-as-Lex in concept, and yeah the modern version of terrifying scientist and business mogul is basically a self-centered Silicon Valley dweeb. Works well. Sadly he was failed by the script, which puttered around on his exact motivation and also made him the architect of a Prequels Palpatine level absurdist grand plot.
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Apr 2, 2016 07:17
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Also- could someone watch Kevin Smith's review of this and tell me how embarrassing it is?
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Apr 2, 2016 07:19
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Also- could someone watch Kevin Smith's review of this and tell me how embarrassing it is? How hard does he cry?
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Apr 2, 2016 11:31
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Also- could someone watch Kevin Smith's review of this and tell me how embarrassing it is? I feel like he really didn't like it the first time he saw it, but he went back again and then made himself believe he liked it. He boils down the movie to being worth it because him and Jason Mewes turned to each other after Batman's apocalyptic dream sequence and said "parademons" at the same time, as if just shoving an obscure DC element into the film redeems the whole thing. JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 12:56
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JazzFlight posted:He boils down the movie to being worth it because him and Jason Mewes turned to each other after Batman's apocalyptic dream sequence and said "parademons" at the same time, as if just shoving an obscure DC element into the film redeems the whole thing. Well, uh...I'm guessing you don't hang out with comic nerds that often...
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Apr 2, 2016 14:01
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Well, uh...I'm guessing you don't hang out with comic nerds that often... The only person I know IRL that liked it is this guy. He wore a Superman shirt to the theater and even though we've broken him down and he knows that 99.99% of this movie is steaming hot liquid dog poo poo, it's still such a great movie because of the awful YouTube clips of Cyborg and Aquaman and a reference to Darkseid.
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Apr 2, 2016 14:31
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