Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy
Oh and I forgot to mention. These dimmers and timers have such ridiculously large backs that getting them to fit in their gang is almost impossible. I had to use smaller wire nuts and even then it required a ridiculous amount of force to push them in place.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

The Gardenator
May 4, 2007


Yams Fan

Uncle at Nintendo posted:

Oh and I forgot to mention. These dimmers and timers have such ridiculously large backs that getting them to fit in their gang is almost impossible. I had to use smaller wire nuts and even then it required a ridiculous amount of force to push them in place.

How big (deep) is the actually box? A lot of older homes have relatively shallow boxes. Carlon Super Blue can be bought at most stores for about $2-3 for a 1 gang. Or you can buy a single box on amazon and sold by amazon for $220:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ARBCQS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Guy Axlerod
Dec 29, 2008
As was mentioned, use the rating of the fixture, not the bulb.


The Gardenator posted:

How big (deep) is the actually box? A lot of older homes have relatively shallow boxes. Carlon Super Blue can be bought at most stores for about $2-3 for a 1 gang. Or you can buy a single box on amazon and sold by amazon for $220:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ARBCQS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Is that for one box, not some sort of case lot? Their 'list' price is over $700.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

The Gardenator posted:

How big (deep) is the actually box? A lot of older homes have relatively shallow boxes. Carlon Super Blue can be bought at most stores for about $2-3 for a 1 gang. Or you can buy a single box on amazon and sold by amazon for $220:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ARBCQS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

They are all brand new boxes! That's what's really weird. It's not the end of the world but my paranoia sets in and I assume me pressing everything in so tightly will cause something to get loose and arc and burn me to death as I sleep. So far, so good on that front though.

As for that link, I think buying an actual literal gang is cheaper.

Guy Axlerod posted:

As was mentioned, use the rating of the fixture, not the bulb..

Right, because if I sell the house someone might put in crappy bulbs, is that right? How do I know what the rating of a fixture is though? It's 10 6" high hats. Honestly I had no idea fixtures had a rating. I thought they were just sockets for me to plug my crapola into. :downs:

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

Uncle at Nintendo posted:

How do I know what the rating of a fixture is though? It's 10 6" high hats. Honestly I had no idea fixtures had a rating. I thought they were just sockets for me to plug my crapola into. :downs:

Is there a sticker inside the can that says the maximum wattage allowed?

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

kid sinister posted:

Is there a sticker inside the can that says the maximum wattage allowed?

This is what he's talking about, though I've been wrong before:

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy


Now I'm even more confused.

Chumbawumba4ever97 fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Apr 2, 2016

crocodile
Jun 19, 2004

the maximum wattage that the fixture recommends is 150W. if you calculate your total load based on that number each recessed can is drawing 1.25 amps. (150w/120v=1.25a). so if you have ten cans then you have 12.5 amps for your total load. now...real life i've never seen anyone install 150w lamps in a recessed can but who knows what someone will do down the road. if you're worried about it just install your dimmer for now and take it out when you move out or...whatever the situation may be. if you're putting LEDs in your dimmer is fine...you won't get anywhere near 6 amps with 10 cans.

Fuck My Ass
Mar 24, 2010
College Slice
Okay so, me and my buddy took down a light fixture in a room today and found this. The romex is basically coming right out of the attic and I believe that piece of a wood is the joist that they mounted the light fixture to. I'm presuming this is a code violation? If so how should I go about fixing this.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

crocodile posted:

the maximum wattage that the fixture recommends is 150W. if you calculate your total load based on that number each recessed can is drawing 1.25 amps. (150w/120v=1.25a). so if you have ten cans then you have 12.5 amps for your total load. now...real life i've never seen anyone install 150w lamps in a recessed can but who knows what someone will do down the road. if you're worried about it just install your dimmer for now and take it out when you move out or...whatever the situation may be. if you're putting LEDs in your dimmer is fine...you won't get anywhere near 6 amps with 10 cans.

Thanks a ton. Right now I have 10 cfls. I take it that's nowhere near 6 amps, even with my ceiling fan?

Speaking of ceiling fan, I am getting pretty ambitious. In the baby's room we want to put up a ceiling fan and I feel like I am good enough with running wire and making holes and securely fastening fixtures and stuff like that. But here's where I get real dumb:

In the baby's room there are already high hats in the ceiling, so there's electricity up there thankfully. I can just go into the attic and make a hole for the fan and all that. But...how do I get electricity to the fan? I have a ton of romex cable left over. I would want the fan to be on a separate switch because if the lights are off the fan should still be able to go on. But as a kid, I remember my ceiling fan not having a switch, and I was able to just turn it on by pulling a string. So where was that power being tapped from? I would assume one of the light fixtures, but then I would think having them off would mean the fan could not go on?
Anyway, My guess is I run romex to the fan, then to the box where the existing switch is and get the power from the "line" side of that? I apologize if I am overly ambitious; I got so much stuff done in the last week which I had put off forever and I don't want to break my flow (because then I'll never get the motivation or confidence to do it again; ask me about my MAME cabinet that has been 98% finished since 2008).

Chumbawumba4ever97 fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Apr 2, 2016

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

gently caress My rear end posted:

Okay so, me and my buddy took down a light fixture in a room today and found this. The romex is basically coming right out of the attic and I believe that piece of a wood is the joist that they mounted the light fixture to. I'm presuming this is a code violation? If so how should I go about fixing this.


It's not code, you need a pancake box.

http://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-Lighting-0103600-Saf-T-Pan-2-Inch/dp/B000DCN8ZY

Fuck My Ass
Mar 24, 2010
College Slice

Very good I'll pick one up at lowes tomorrow. I can mount this right to that joist there?

crocodile
Jun 19, 2004

Uncle at Nintendo posted:

Thanks a ton. Right now I have 10 cfls. I take it that's nowhere near 6 amps, even with my ceiling fan?

it depends on the wattage of the CFL lamps you have in there. you can use the same formula watts/volts=amps to figure it out. the motor on your typical paddle fan is a fairly low draw. probably between .5a and 1a. without finding the nameplate sticker you won't know exactly, though.

quote:

Speaking of ceiling fan, I am getting pretty ambitious. In the baby's room we want to put up a ceiling fan and I feel like I am good enough with running wire and making holes and securely fastening fixtures and stuff like that. But here's where I get real dumb:

In the baby's room there are already high hats in the ceiling, so there's electricity up there thankfully. I can just go into the attic and make a hole for the fan and all that. But...how do I get electricity to the fan? I have a ton of romex cable left over. I would want the fan to be on a separate switch because if the lights are off the fan should still be able to go on. But as a kid, I remember my ceiling fan not having a switch, and I was able to just turn it on by pulling a string. So where was that power being tapped from? I would assume one of the light fixtures, but then I would think having them off would mean the fan could not go on?
Anyway, My guess is I run romex to the fan, then to the box where the existing switch is and get the power from the "line" side of that? I apologize if I am overly ambitious; I got so much stuff done in the last week which I had put off forever and I don't want to break my flow (because then I'll never get the motivation or confidence to do it again; ask me about my MAME cabinet that has been 98% finished since 2008).

you're right in that a fan without a switch (only the pull chains) is constant power or the "line" side of a switch. but if you're going to go the route of getting the power from the switch box...just make that box into a 2 gang and make the fan switched instead of just pulling the constant power from there and having to use the pull chain on the fan.

edited to add: make sure the box you're installing is rated to hold the weight of a paddle fan. a standard lighting box is NOT rated for this.

crocodile fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 2, 2016

Qwijib0
Apr 10, 2007

Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?

Fun Shoe

gently caress My rear end posted:

Very good I'll pick one up at lowes tomorrow. I can mount this right to that joist there?

yep.

Fuck My Ass
Mar 24, 2010
College Slice

Thank you fellas I appreciate it.

The Gardenator
May 4, 2007


Yams Fan

gently caress My rear end posted:

Thank you fellas I appreciate it.

I had a similar situation, I replaced a lot of shallow plastic boxes with those shallow metal fan boxes. It's worth it to get boxes rated for fans in case you ever install fans or heavy fixtures. I think the ones I bought from lowes were around $4 each.

Chumbawumba4ever97
Dec 31, 2000

by Fluffdaddy

crocodile posted:

it depends on the wattage of the CFL lamps you have in there. you can use the same formula watts/volts=amps to figure it out. the motor on your typical paddle fan is a fairly low draw. probably between .5a and 1a. without finding the nameplate sticker you won't know exactly, though.


you're right in that a fan without a switch (only the pull chains) is constant power or the "line" side of a switch. but if you're going to go the route of getting the power from the switch box...just make that box into a 2 gang and make the fan switched instead of just pulling the constant power from there and having to use the pull chain on the fan.

edited to add: make sure the box you're installing is rated to hold the weight of a paddle fan. a standard lighting box is NOT rated for this.

Thank you! Yeah I would absolutely get a ceiling fan box. I am not looking to cheap out, I just like trying to do things myself.

I will definitely just make the fan on its own switch next to the room's dimmer. The only thing is, the dimmer is a Lutron Caseta one, and it doesn't have a "second side" of terminals like most switches do. Does this mean that I should just split off the one line wire before it gets to the switch in the current box, then wire that to the fan's switch; plus the neutral? The Lutron Casetta on/off switch requires neutral, but the Lutron Casetta dimmer does not.

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal
Speaking of ceiling fans, I've got a question about pulling wiring around a corner I wanted to cross post from the fix it fast thread:

OSU_Matthew posted:

Would anyone have any suggestions for the best easy to go about pulling some wiring around the corner where a wall meets the ceiling? The house is balloon framed construction with plaster and lathe.

I'm trying to install a ceiling fan in my living room, and I've already drilled a 4" hole in the center of the room to install my joist bracket/electrical box. From the hole, it's a straight shot along the ceiling joist cavity to the wall, and straight down to the light switch box I'm planning on tapping for the electric. It's a two gang box, with a disconnected switch already in there, and the circuit has plenty of capacity for an extra .5-1 amp ceiling fan. The other switch in there is part of a two way switch for the front porch light.

The dud switch and disconnected knob and tube wiring I found when I drilled the hole point to there having been a ceiling light already in that exact location, but there's no way I can use the old wiring to pull new stuff since it's too small for the 14-3 romex I'm using, and it's secured with porcelain insulators (house was rewired in 2007).

How do I get my fish tape around the corner where the ceiling meets the wall? Do I need to cut out holes on each side of the corner? What's the least destructive way to cut through plaster and lathe? Circular bi metal hole saw, angle grinder with diamond tipped blade? I think my oscillating multi tool would rip out and shatter the lathe. The more I think about it the more stuck I get... Any advice is appreciated!

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


OSU_Matthew posted:

Speaking of ceiling fans, I've got a question about pulling wiring around a corner I wanted to cross post from the fix it fast thread:

Until miniature robots get better, there's no good answer to this question.
If you've got crown molding, that's where you drill your holes. A 7/8" bi-metal hole saw is about the right size to get everything done, and not too big to have to worry about how to patch the hole. That said, patching plaster and lath is a bitch of a job to do right, and impossible to match the existing wall, so just hide it behind crown molding.

The way to drill the hole is to get an extra-long 1/4" pilot bit and drill the pilot at an angle first, then put the hole saw on and have the hole saw pilot follow the pre-drilled hole. Go very slow, and hope there's no chicken wire between the plaster and lath. Attached stupid picture should (hopefully) make the angles clearer. The blue is crown molding. Yellow is the lath. White is plaster/whatever. Gray should be joists/rafters. The thin pink line is your pilot, with the purple being the hole saw path. Don't go through your roof or exterior wall. This does make a bit of an annoying lip to try to pull romex around, but with two people it goes OK. If you're OK patching bigger holes, then a pair of holes (one in the ceiling and one in the wall) makes this a trivial process.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.
So a logistics question: 

I have no 220v in my garage. It's not impossible to run wire from the breaker, but it is on the compete other side of the house, in the basement, and separated from the garage by a cement slab. This necessitates running wire corner to corner of the foundation, then up to the attic, then back across the house and down through another crawlspace. About 150ft of wire overall and a LOT of pain in the rear end (not to mention cost for that much 10 gauge wire...). 

But there may be another option... 

Washer and drier have a dedicated 220 line on the other side of the wall from my garage. If I tapped that line and ran some wire through to the garage I would have a possible outlet. Question is if I could put a switch to regulate which outlet is hot (and avoid blowing the breaker when both run simultaneously). Also don't know if that is code or if it's grossly illegal.

Thoughts?

minivanmegafun
Jul 27, 2004

On plaster + lath: if you have wood lath (and not metal) I've had the best luck by starting with a masonry bit at high speed, running that until you feel a change in resistance, and then switching to a wood bit or spade to cut through the lath.

The masonry but cuts plaster really well but sucks at wood, and if you try to force it through the wood lath you'll very likely force it away from the plaster keys and crack the wall.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost
I need some help troubleshooting an open hot. I have beginner electrical experience.

I bought a house about a year ago and one of the inspections noted a GFCI outlet that initially worked, but when ground tested wouldn't reset. I wasn't much concerned because I've replaced outlets before, and the outlet was working before the ground test (I watched it happen). The lights on the circuit still worked and it wasn't an outlet I was going to use any time soon, so I just left it. For reference, the house is very old but it's been renovated multiple times and in general it seems like the wiring is on the up-and-up (panel wired well and cleanly, breakers well- and accurately-labeled, correct receptacles and boxes where I've found them) though I'm no expert.
A year later I'm slowly fixing all the things I knew were wrong at the house, and I go to fix the outlet. Long story short, here's what I've discovered:

  • Proper voltage is going to the outlet, and on the correct wires; 120V between hot and neutral, and they're wired in the correct spots on the receptacle.
  • Circuit tester reads it as an open hot, even when I've only included three wires and don't have anything else ganged into it.
  • Just to check my circuit tester, it works fine in other outlets and a lamp does not work on this particular outlet, but the screws do test hot.
  • Plugging in a new GFCI outlet gets the same results as above.
  • I don't know if there's anything else on the circuit, but the things I've been able to find all shut off when I flip the breaker, all lights and no other outlets, and the wires themselves test off.
  • I wouldn't be surprised if there was something else on that circuit though, because there are three lines coming into the outlet box. I can post a picture if that would help.

I don't really know where to go from here. I have no problem calling an electrician, but I'd like to get more experience troubleshooting this sort of thing.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 15 hours!

Crazyeyes posted:

So a logistics question: 

I have no 220v in my garage. It's not impossible to run wire from the breaker, but it is on the compete other side of the house, in the basement, and separated from the garage by a cement slab. This necessitates running wire corner to corner of the foundation, then up to the attic, then back across the house and down through another crawlspace. About 150ft of wire overall and a LOT of pain in the rear end (not to mention cost for that much 10 gauge wire...). 

But there may be another option... 

Washer and drier have a dedicated 220 line on the other side of the wall from my garage. If I tapped that line and ran some wire through to the garage I would have a possible outlet. Question is if I could put a switch to regulate which outlet is hot (and avoid blowing the breaker when both run simultaneously). Also don't know if that is code or if it's grossly illegal.

Thoughts?

If done properly there is no reason it would be a code violation. You don't even need a switch - that's what the breaker is there for.

If you really want a switch I'd suggest removing the feed from the outlet in your laundry room, pigtailing it through the wall to a 2-way switch in a box like this one except a 2-way one (I've seen them, but it's a specialty item you'll need to track down at a real electrical supply house) then run a feed back to the outlet in the laundry room off of one switch position and another out through appropriate EMT/MC to the location in your garage you want the receptacle.

This assumes the existing circuit is properly speced for the amperage you need for your welder and there is sufficient room in the box to make the pigtail + another run for the return.

If it was me, I'd skip the switch. You're going to leave it on "welder" and your wife is gonna be pissed she has to keep walking out to the garage to flip it. Or pissed that there's a big ugly gray box in the laundry room if you put in in there.

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

OSU_Matthew posted:

Speaking of ceiling fans, I've got a question about pulling wiring around a corner I wanted to cross post from the fix it fast thread:

Seconding that there is no easy way to do it. My advice would be to cut that wall box out of the wall to give yourself more room to fish. Use a pocket hacksaw or oscillating tool to cut through the nails holding it to the stud, loosen the cable clamps, then work the box out of the existing hole in the wall. Once you got your cables run, use an old work box to replace it.

Is your fish tape steel? You could try using its memory to make the turn in the attic. I've seen some YouTube videos of guys using fish sticks for this. Tape the NM to the end of a fish stick, poke it up from below, then in the attic use a second fish stick with a hook on the end to grab the gap between the NM and fish stick.

gently caress My rear end posted:

Okay so, me and my buddy took down a light fixture in a room today and found this. The romex is basically coming right out of the attic and I believe that piece of a wood is the joist that they mounted the light fixture to. I'm presuming this is a code violation? If so how should I go about fixing this.


You also have the option of a saddle box besides a pancake box. Saddle boxes are nice if you need more room to make more junctions in that box.

Crazyeyes posted:

So a logistics question: 

I have no 220v in my garage. It's not impossible to run wire from the breaker, but it is on the compete other side of the house, in the basement, and separated from the garage by a cement slab. This necessitates running wire corner to corner of the foundation, then up to the attic, then back across the house and down through another crawlspace. About 150ft of wire overall and a LOT of pain in the rear end (not to mention cost for that much 10 gauge wire...). 

But there may be another option... 

Washer and drier have a dedicated 220 line on the other side of the wall from my garage. If I tapped that line and ran some wire through to the garage I would have a possible outlet. Question is if I could put a switch to regulate which outlet is hot (and avoid blowing the breaker when both run simultaneously). Also don't know if that is code or if it's grossly illegal.

Thoughts?

Well, they do make switches for this. You would need a 30 amp DPDT switch, which aren't cheap. I don't have my book ready, but I bet you would run into box fill requirements with 3 runs of 10/3 into that box. Also, wrestling that switch with seven 10 gauge wires attached to it into position in the box will be fun.

Of course this is assuming your existing circuit has the ground wire and can be legally added to.
Does the existing dryer outlet have a 4 prong outlet?

DarkHorse posted:

I need some help troubleshooting an open hot. I have beginner electrical experience.

I bought a house about a year ago and one of the inspections noted a GFCI outlet that initially worked, but when ground tested wouldn't reset. I wasn't much concerned because I've replaced outlets before, and the outlet was working before the ground test (I watched it happen). The lights on the circuit still worked and it wasn't an outlet I was going to use any time soon, so I just left it. For reference, the house is very old but it's been renovated multiple times and in general it seems like the wiring is on the up-and-up (panel wired well and cleanly, breakers well- and accurately-labeled, correct receptacles and boxes where I've found them) though I'm no expert.
A year later I'm slowly fixing all the things I knew were wrong at the house, and I go to fix the outlet. Long story short, here's what I've discovered:

  • Proper voltage is going to the outlet, and on the correct wires; 120V between hot and neutral, and they're wired in the correct spots on the receptacle.
  • Circuit tester reads it as an open hot, even when I've only included three wires and don't have anything else ganged into it.
  • Just to check my circuit tester, it works fine in other outlets and a lamp does not work on this particular outlet, but the screws do test hot.
  • Plugging in a new GFCI outlet gets the same results as above.
  • I don't know if there's anything else on the circuit, but the things I've been able to find all shut off when I flip the breaker, all lights and no other outlets, and the wires themselves test off.
  • I wouldn't be surprised if there was something else on that circuit though, because there are three lines coming into the outlet box. I can post a picture if that would help.

I don't really know where to go from here. I have no problem calling an electrician, but I'd like to get more experience troubleshooting this sort of thing.

Start with taking that GFCI out of the box, spreading out the wires and posting a picture of the inside. Get your circuit tester out and start testing which hots are hot on when which circuits are on.

kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Apr 3, 2016

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Until miniature robots get better, there's no good answer to this question.
If you've got crown molding, that's where you drill your holes. A 7/8" bi-metal hole saw is about the right size to get everything done, and not too big to have to worry about how to patch the hole. That said, patching plaster and lath is a bitch of a job to do right, and impossible to match the existing wall, so just hide it behind crown molding.

The way to drill the hole is to get an extra-long 1/4" pilot bit and drill the pilot at an angle first, then put the hole saw on and have the hole saw pilot follow the pre-drilled hole. Go very slow, and hope there's no chicken wire between the plaster and lath. Attached stupid picture should (hopefully) make the angles clearer. The blue is crown molding. Yellow is the lath. White is plaster/whatever. Gray should be joists/rafters. The thin pink line is your pilot, with the purple being the hole saw path. Don't go through your roof or exterior wall. This does make a bit of an annoying lip to try to pull romex around, but with two people it goes OK. If you're OK patching bigger holes, then a pair of holes (one in the ceiling and one in the wall) makes this a trivial process.



That's a great idea, thank you so much for the effort post!! I wound up pulling back that molding and doing exactly that with a slightly larger 2" hole saw so I could get the tape through easier. I also drilled another hole straight up into the ceiling since there was a joist blocking the end of the ceiling cavity, and now there's an easy shot.

Or, should be an easy shot, except I suck at running fish tape through an 8' run. The cavity is about the size of an hvac duct, except it's got old knob and tube wiring & insulators on each side and plaster keys on the bottom, and I think the tape keeps hitting the keys and coiling back on itself. I've tried flipping it around, but I'm not having much luck getting it to go the length of the run before it gets stuck. I've even tried using my inspection camera with a magnetic tip to see if I can find and grab it from the other hole, but I just can't get to it before it gets hung up on obstacles.

Are there any alternative tools you could recommend for this task? I'm half seriously debating tying a couple of strings around clocky and seeing if it can run to the other side. Put it in the big hole, run it to the end, pull one string out the tiny hole, and yank the alarm clock back to the opening with the other one.

I don't think that'd work though, so what's a more realistic alternative? I'm assuming magnepull won't work with double thick plaster and lathe, and would break off all the keys anyways. Is wet noodle worth a shot?

E:

kid sinister posted:

Seconding that there is no easy way to do it. My advice would be to cut that wall box out of the wall to give yourself more room to fish. Use a pocket hacksaw or oscillating tool to cut through the nails holding it to the stud, loosen the cable clamps, then work the box out of the existing hole in the wall. Once you got your cables run, use an old work box to replace it.

Reading through this post now, but I actually did remove the box altogether so there's plenty of room to fish (though it's insulated because it's an exterior wall). It's an old work box to begin with because the house was built before electricity came to the village. There's still gas hookups for wall lamps upstairs in the bedrooms. It's also on the first floor of a two story house, so sadly no easy attic access, and peeling up the tongue and groove hardwood flooring upstairs would be a huge project.

I'm just trying to get the wire from one hole in the center of the ceiling to the hole 8' down at the edge of the ceiling, and then it's an easy shot to the wall switch box hole.

Catatron Prime fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Apr 3, 2016

Captain Cool
Oct 23, 2004

This is a song about messin' with people who've been messin' with you

Uncle at Nintendo posted:



Now I'm even more confused.
Looks like that sticker covers multiple models of cans. If you can find a model number somewhere else inside the can, and make out the left column of that table, you can find the max wattage allowed in that model.

If you can't find it, could an R40 even fit in there? If you can rule out that model, you're down to 75w * 10, which...is still a hair above 6A.

Captain Cool fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 6, 2016

crocodile
Jun 19, 2004

Uncle at Nintendo posted:

Thank you! Yeah I would absolutely get a ceiling fan box. I am not looking to cheap out, I just like trying to do things myself.

I will definitely just make the fan on its own switch next to the room's dimmer. The only thing is, the dimmer is a Lutron Caseta one, and it doesn't have a "second side" of terminals like most switches do. Does this mean that I should just split off the one line wire before it gets to the switch in the current box, then wire that to the fan's switch; plus the neutral? The Lutron Casetta on/off switch requires neutral, but the Lutron Casetta dimmer does not.

yeah, you have the right idea. pigtail down the hotwire twice- one for the dimmer and one for the new switch, tie in your white to the neutral and ground to ground (and pigtail yourself some grounds if they aren't already attached to your switches).

crocodile
Jun 19, 2004

OSU_Matthew posted:

That's a great idea, thank you so much for the effort post!! I wound up pulling back that molding and doing exactly that with a slightly larger 2" hole saw so I could get the tape through easier. I also drilled another hole straight up into the ceiling since there was a joist blocking the end of the ceiling cavity, and now there's an easy shot.

Or, should be an easy shot, except I suck at running fish tape through an 8' run. The cavity is about the size of an hvac duct, except it's got old knob and tube wiring & insulators on each side and plaster keys on the bottom, and I think the tape keeps hitting the keys and coiling back on itself. I've tried flipping it around, but I'm not having much luck getting it to go the length of the run before it gets stuck. I've even tried using my inspection camera with a magnetic tip to see if I can find and grab it from the other hole, but I just can't get to it before it gets hung up on obstacles.

Are there any alternative tools you could recommend for this task? I'm half seriously debating tying a couple of strings around clocky and seeing if it can run to the other side. Put it in the big hole, run it to the end, pull one string out the tiny hole, and yank the alarm clock back to the opening with the other one.

I don't think that'd work though, so what's a more realistic alternative? I'm assuming magnepull won't work with double thick plaster and lathe, and would break off all the keys anyways. Is wet noodle worth a shot?

E:


Reading through this post now, but I actually did remove the box altogether so there's plenty of room to fish (though it's insulated because it's an exterior wall). It's an old work box to begin with because the house was built before electricity came to the village. There's still gas hookups for wall lamps upstairs in the bedrooms. It's also on the first floor of a two story house, so sadly no easy attic access, and peeling up the tongue and groove hardwood flooring upstairs would be a huge project.

I'm just trying to get the wire from one hole in the center of the ceiling to the hole 8' down at the edge of the ceiling, and then it's an easy shot to the wall switch box hole.

i find for long runs in open bays fish sticks work way better than fish tape. the tape is too flexible and over time starts to curl up on itself, or like you said, gets hung up on something. you can get a cheapo pair of sticks from harbor freight. these also tend to be easier to fish in an insulated wall for when you fish down to the switch.

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal

crocodile posted:

i find for long runs in open bays fish sticks work way better than fish tape. the tape is too flexible and over time starts to curl up on itself, or like you said, gets hung up on something. you can get a cheapo pair of sticks from harbor freight. these also tend to be easier to fish in an insulated wall for when you fish down to the switch.

I actually tried the HF fish sticks awhile back on another project, and the brass screw connectors between poles sheared in half under its own weight before I even started using it :(

Should I just exchange them for a replacement, or would I be better off buying a different set?

Either way, that's a great idea, I'll give that a shot next--thanks!

n0tqu1tesane
May 7, 2003

She was rubbing her ass all over my hands. They don't just do that for everyone.
Grimey Drawer
I use the Harbor Freight set all the time, and have had a couple of the brass connectors shear on me, but it was always because I was doing dumb poo poo with it, like trying to force it to bend ways it doesn't want to, not just under its own weight.

We've also got some of the more expensive sets at work, but the Harbor Freight set works just as well for 90% of cable pulling.

EDIT:

Also, I hardly ever use more than 3 or 4 of the Harbor Freight rods connected together at once, so if you do end up breaking one or two of them, it rarely affects being able to get a run complete.

n0tqu1tesane fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Apr 4, 2016

Catatron Prime
Aug 23, 2010

IT ME



Toilet Rascal
Ok, thanks, I'll exchange what I've got and give them another shot then. Wasn't sure if my sample size of one was indicative of their overall quality and I'd be losing stuff in wall cavities. The last one sheared off after putting three together and guiding them straight up into a wall cavity trying to get from my basement to the attic. I was running into the same problem there, where the fish tape would coil in on itself.

Bring an electrician has to be the most frustrating job in the world, especially dealing with running wire through lovely old homes. Do you guys ever get pissed off doing that kind of thing, or do you just have enough technique, practice, and skill to quickly knock this kind of thing out?

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


OSU_Matthew posted:

Bring an electrician has to be the most frustrating job in the world, especially dealing with running wire through lovely old homes. Do you guys ever get pissed off doing that kind of thing, or do you just have enough technique, practice, and skill to quickly knock this kind of thing out?

Bid high for side work. If you're reasonably confident it's gonna suck, then say $100/hr. It's extortion, sure, but if they agree to it, then you can know that you're getting paid to deal with that BS. I tell homeowners I charge $50/ft to dig trenches because I hate digging them. "But I could get a guy to do this whole run for $50!" You should do that, then. Your'e attempting to hire an electrician, not a ditch digger.

Other than that, don't ever agree to do remodels in residential. Commercial and industrial is where it's at.

LethalGeek
Nov 4, 2009

I saw someone say this a moment ago but figured i should check it's still an OK idea:

Replaced a light with a fan (proper box yes) and quickly figured out I can't have a motor on a modern dimmer switch, I could hear the motor being unhappy about that instantly. Going to replace the switch tonight with a boring one. I saw someone mention they had a ceiling fan that was directly on the circuit and used the internal switch to manage flow.

My question is if I run another wire directly to the fan and wire the switched line back to the light/blue wire inside the fixture will the dimmer signal interfere with the fan's hot line or since they're separate hot lines it will be ok? I only ask because the neutral is mixed together inside the fixture. In my head it sounds ok but it's been 10 years since college and I mucked with 5v stuff not 120v.

Qwijib0
Apr 10, 2007

Who needs on-field skills when you can dance like this?

Fun Shoe

LethalGeek posted:

I saw someone say this a moment ago but figured i should check it's still an OK idea:

Replaced a light with a fan (proper box yes) and quickly figured out I can't have a motor on a modern dimmer switch, I could hear the motor being unhappy about that instantly. Going to replace the switch tonight with a boring one. I saw someone mention they had a ceiling fan that was directly on the circuit and used the internal switch to manage flow.

My question is if I run another wire directly to the fan and wire the switched line back to the light/blue wire inside the fixture will the dimmer signal interfere with the fan's hot line or since they're separate hot lines it will be ok? I only ask because the neutral is mixed together inside the fixture. In my head it sounds ok but it's been 10 years since college and I mucked with 5v stuff not 120v.

Yes-- you just need the one neutral. Currently you have one switched/dimmed hot to the fixture. Run your new wire then split the hot in the wall box, one to the light dimmer, one to the fan speed control (or regular switch), and then in the ceiling attach the corresponding hot wire to the right fan lead. The fan will just have the one neutral lead you'll leave alone.

edit: then you can use something like this, which "splits" the hot for you.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Skylark-1-5-Amp-Single-Pole-3-Speed-Combination-Fan-and-Light-Control-White-S2-LFSQH-WH/100059262

Qwijib0 fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Apr 6, 2016

LethalGeek
Nov 4, 2009

Awesome to hear. I'll have to do that soon once I confirm I can push a wire through that bay. I have some of those neon flex sticks so I'll jam them in there until I hit something

crocodile
Jun 19, 2004

OSU_Matthew posted:

Ok, thanks, I'll exchange what I've got and give them another shot then. Wasn't sure if my sample size of one was indicative of their overall quality and I'd be losing stuff in wall cavities. The last one sheared off after putting three together and guiding them straight up into a wall cavity trying to get from my basement to the attic. I was running into the same problem there, where the fish tape would coil in on itself.

Bring an electrician has to be the most frustrating job in the world, especially dealing with running wire through lovely old homes. Do you guys ever get pissed off doing that kind of thing, or do you just have enough technique, practice, and skill to quickly knock this kind of thing out?

just like anything it takes a lot of patience and practice. it took maaannnyyy years of frustration and wanting to break poo poo for me to get where i'm at. at this point i've re-wired hundreds of houses ranging from 150-40 years old and everything in between...so yeah, i can knock something like that out pretty quickly.


babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Bid high for side work. If you're reasonably confident it's gonna suck, then say $100/hr. It's extortion, sure, but if they agree to it, then you can know that you're getting paid to deal with that BS. I tell homeowners I charge $50/ft to dig trenches because I hate digging them. "But I could get a guy to do this whole run for $50!" You should do that, then. Your'e attempting to hire an electrician, not a ditch digger.

Other than that, don't ever agree to do remodels in residential. Commercial and industrial is where it's at.

i must be the only electrician who prefers residential over commercial...and remodel work is my favorite (minus crawl spaces...bleh.) but i've gotten to the point i won't even do side work for family. i hate the price-guilting poo poo that comes along with it...like no, i'm not going to look at your co-workers husband's hosed up garage wiring and give him "advice" on how to fix it because the breaker keeps tripping...for free. are you insane? when i DO do side work i typically charge $60 an hour and i still get grief. you're going to pay at least double that for someone to come out from a company during normal business hours, why would you even try and argue? these days if someone says something i just immediately rescind my offer. it's just not worth arguing over and then i still have my free time.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Yeah gently caress that, I only do side work directly for friends, in the "we'll do this together" sort of arrangement.

I find there's much more value in trading for work favors than charging actual money. I changed out a residential fpe main panel for a buddy of mine, and in exchange got about 4 solid hours of backhoe work done.

Having a friend with heavy equipment who needs favors, is better than actually owning your own equipment IMO

kid sinister
Nov 16, 2002

crocodile posted:

i must be the only electrician who prefers residential over commercial...and remodel work is my favorite (minus crawl spaces...bleh.)

How about attics in the summer, in the afternoon?

Aeka 2.0
Nov 16, 2000

:ohdear: Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.




Dinosaur Gum
I have a projector, and I'm done with using Wiremold for the power.

I don't know if what I'd like to do is legal, but there are "kits" for what I'm doing, but I'm not going to use a kit.
I'd like to have a power outlet on the ceiling near the projector, the power will be a run of Romex through the attic, then down a wall and terminate as an inlet near my AV equipment. It will not tie into an existing power source. I need to run an inlet at the wall so I can plug my UPS into it to power the projector, or simply have the option to bridge it from a nearby power outlet to the inlet. What I'm doing looks legal and to code as they sell kits like I mentioned for wall mounted tv's HERE. But a kit won't work due to the length of my run. I already purchased the inlet and outlets, the plastic boxes, Romex, and Romex staples. I've looked around at the NEC code, and my cable run will be more than 6 feet away from the entrance, my attic does not have a ladder. Am I correct that I should be able to run this parallel to the joists, staple every 4 1/2 feet, and staple 8" from the box and call it good? I'm in California if that changes anything.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Super Waffle
Sep 25, 2007

I'm a hermaphrodite and my parents (40K nerds) named me Slaanesh, THANKS MOM
Hey guys, I'm wondering if I could get some advice. I have a pre-fab shed in the backyard that I need wired up to use as a small workshop. It will need it's own sub panel and, I imagine, an underground line leading from the shed to the house, then that line tied in to the main breaker. I'll need at least one 220v circuit, and maybe 3? normal 120v circuits. What sort of price range should I expect to see if I get a quote from an electrician? How do I go about choosing an electrician? Is this something that I can do myself? I'm a mechanical engineer but I've never done any electrical work. I would appreciate any advice.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply