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szary posted:It gets "better", apparently the proposed act penalises "involuntary prenatal murder", which means that if a woman miscarries she might be prosecuted because she didn't look after herself properly during the pregnancy and might have contributed to the miscarriage!  szary posted:Having said that, I think this is a smoke screen - PiS dropped the abortion bomb, a shitstorm ensued and now barely anyone remembers about the constitutional crisis. Re: Russian relations chat - it's worth mentioning that far-right elements in Poland do have a weird Trump-like fascination with Putin, both for his specific policies towards the "Jew homonazi agenda" and in general for being a Stronk Leader. Still, even they prefer him as a role model than as an actual partner.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:19
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Another fun thing PiS is planning which I read in Rzeczpospolita yesterday is they plan to forbid civil authorities from issuing certificates of unmarried status to people planning to enter into same sex marriages in other countries. Some countries require you to present a certificate stating you're not married in order to enter into a marriage (basically to guard against polygamy) and this will no longer be available for gay people. Not only can't you get gay married in Poland, you can't even get gay married abroad if you're Polish. Good change has come to the Republic!
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Apr 1, 2016 22:32
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How exactly are they planning to track if somebody is going to have a same sex marriage?
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Apr 1, 2016 22:53
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Palpek posted:How exactly are they planning to track if somebody is going to have a same sex marriage? I found the article in the online version, here's the relevant excerpt: quote: Ponadto trzeba znowelizować prawo o aktach stanu cywilnego, uniemożliwiając wydawanie dokumentów, które mogą posłużyć do zawierania przez obywateli RP związków jednopłciowych za granicą mówi szef zespołu parlamentarnego Piotr Uściński z PiS. And link to the whole article, in Polish obviously: http://www.rp.pl/Polityka/303299869-Czy-PiS-zatrzyma-gejow.html#ap-1
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Apr 1, 2016 22:57
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Do you have to register as The Gay on order to be denied papers?
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Apr 1, 2016 22:57
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szary posted:Having said that, I think this is a smoke screen - PiS dropped the abortion bomb, a shitstorm ensued and now barely anyone remembers about the constitutional crisis. Polls show that relatively few people in Poland want a stricter abortion law (something like 15%), the only ones in favour are hardcore right-wingers, and they're going to vote for PiS anyway, so there's no political capital to be gained. I'm not sure what would it be supposed to achieve. The whole reason why PiS managed to get away with neutering the Constitutional Tribunal is that most people didn't give a gently caress about the entire debacle, thinking it was yet another war for some sinecures. Trying to pass a poo poo of a law even Iranian ayatollahs would find too radical will alienate a fuckload of their followers. And, as Pizdec mentioned, it's even likely to rally more people to the defense of the Tribunal, as it's currently the only non-PiS related body that could reasonably block that act. They seriously shat the bed now. The reason why could that happened is probably much simpler - Kaczyński opened too many fronts and suddenly found himself without allies. Plenty of their well-known moderate supporters (like Staniszkis or Bugaj) publicly stated they shouldn't have voted for PiS, the UK and Orban ignored him, the US demanded them to stop tampering with the constitution. Even the Pope and some more liberal priests hosed them over by not taking their side over the refugees. The religious loons are the only side which didn't leave him - yet. Recently there were some rumors that some PiS deputies consider breaking away from the party. Most people thought that some of the moderates finally had enough, but it could have been the Catholic wackos. In such a case, Kaczyński could either risk losing the majority in Sejm, or alienating some of his voters several months after the elections.
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Apr 1, 2016 22:59
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If that's the document I'm thinking of, which is not as much a certificate of your (non-)marital status, but a certificate of being legally able to get married, it's issued for the couple in question rather than a single person. So both dudes would have to haul their asses to the register office to each get confirmed for not being already married and poo poo. Regrettably, the one weird trick to stop gays marrying abroad is not really just a PiS thing.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:04
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steinrokkan posted:To a large extent the rule of Franz Joseph is seen with a misty-eyed nostalgia, as a halcyon days period of our national history. This, however, has less to do with actual political history, and more with the way the period has been romanticized as a sort of a naive, lazy and innocent, pastoral era only slightly marred by the benign dictatorship of a kindly Emperor by popular authors, including pillars of Czech pop culture like Hrabal, Haek, and the Jára Cimrman people. I think it's fair to say that in the popular subconsciousness the late Habsburg monarchy became an idealized counterpart to the Communist regime, a call back to a period when the nation still had its full potential, both economic and moral, unspoiled by wars and ideological dictatorship. steinrokkan posted:As for a more serious view of the overally period of Habsburg rule, it's been traditionally negative among scholars, seen as a dark age, but there's been a growing faction since the 19th century basically rehabilitating the modern Catholic history of Bohemia under Austria, and the cohabitation of Czechs and Germans as essentially a product of reciprocal forces between the Czech and German elements, and I think nowadays this camp has more credibility than the traditionalist view of the quintessentially Protestant Czech nation, descended from the Hussites, being suppressed by the xenophobic Austrians. Palpek posted:How exactly are they planning to track if somebody is going to have a same sex marriage?
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Apr 1, 2016 23:06
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Gantolandon posted:Trying to pass a poo poo of a law even Iranian ayatollahs would find too radical will alienate a fuckload of their followers. And, as Pizdec mentioned, it's even likely to rally more people to the defense of the Tribunal, as it's currently the only non-PiS related body that could reasonably block that act. They seriously shat the bed now. It's PiS voters, man. If any of those guys would get bummed over this, they'd be the zeitgeist semi-stooges like Kukiz voters or something. quote:Kaczyński opened too many fronts and suddenly found himself without allies. Plenty of their well-known moderate supporters (like Staniszkis or Bugaj) publicly stated they shouldn't have voted for PiS Pretty sure he 100% assumes he'll just break up and assimilate (Borg-style) everyone vaguely sympathetic into the party, 2005 style.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:09
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Lichtenstein posted:It's PiS voters, man. If any of those guys would get bummed over this, they'd be the zeitgeist semi-stooges like Kukiz voters or something. According to the polls, there are not many people who would really want to see the abortion law more restrictive. Besides, plenty of them just voted for PiS because they promised more redistribution and weren't embroiled in so many corruption scandals as PO. Even among celebrities and pundits, there are many people who supported PiS for completely weird reason. Like Bugaj who said after the elections he sympathized with Razem, but didn't want to waste his vote. Or that gay activist who got pissed at PO they don't support civil partnerships enough and supported Duda during presidential elections as a protest.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:23
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Pizdec posted:Poland will be the only country in the world that penalises unintentional miscarriage. We're growing up to be such a unique, special, retarded snowflake. Well, the US is doing that stuff by the back door in certain jurisdictions: http://www.democracynow.org/2015/4/2/20_years_in_prison_for_miscarrying
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Apr 1, 2016 23:49
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Yeah, PiS hid the straight jacket really well during their campaign and while a lot of their voters agree with them even on nationalistic issues like refugees - the insane abortion stance is too extreme. I'd say letting the church be exempt from the land purchase limitations is an even bigger deal though that a lot of people will be absolutely pissed about. It's all fun and games until money comes into picture and I could see that becoming a scandal.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:52
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Gantolandon posted:Or that gay activist who got pissed at PO they don't support civil partnerships enough and supported Duda during presidential elections as a protest. Ah yes, in protest of this party abandoning any effort to advance gay rights, I want people to vote for this dude who wants to repeal what few rights we have  .Part of me is still really worried that PiS will somehow stabilize or there won't be a good party to pick up disillusioned PiS voters (Nowoczesna becomes the new PO? Kukiz'15 gets their chance to self destruct? Poland feels the bern and votes Razem?) but it's good to hear PiS somehow found an issue to go too far right on.
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Apr 2, 2016 00:37
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I went out for drinks and dancing tonight and the DJ played this song which is not common for Croatian bars and clubs. It was released in 1981 by Croatian/Yugoslavian ban Azra. Here's a quick translation as a dedication to Polish goons. I hope you will sort your country out. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x39i5kt Gdansk 1980 When the Autumn said No Gdansk 1980 We kept our fingers crossed Miners, students, shipyard All of us Gdansk 1980 Factories on fire You don't send Tanks on workers twice They didn't dare We won, all of us Poland, in my heart In my heart mazurka Poland never Poland never produced a quisling Every day Polonaise Rings at my door Polish amber Bracelets Volodya's guard posts (??) Windows at half price (??) Pope Wojtyla and me Gdansk 1980 Queues to buy newspapers Independent unions Protection committees They didn't dare We won, all of us Poland, in my heart In my heart mazurka Poland never Poland never produced a quisling Every day Polonaise Rings at my door Polish amber Bracelets Volodya's guard posts (??) Windows at half price (??) Pope Wojtyla and me Gdansk 1980 Factories on fire You don't send Tanks on workers twice Tanks on workers Tanks on workers Tanks on us
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Apr 2, 2016 02:13
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FIX YOUR poo poo POLAND https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu2OYcgr4rM rear end Titties rear end and Titties rear end rear end Titties Titties rear end And Titties rear end Titties rear end and Titties rear end rear end Titties Titties rear end And Titties Big booty bitches that's wearing guess, Come on ho let's go to the easy rest. When I see, rear end Titties rear end and Titties rear end rear end Titties Titties rear end And Titties Big booty bitches that's wearing guess, Come on ho let's go to the easy rest. When I see, rear end Titties rear end and Titties rear end rear end Titties Titties rear end And Titties rear end (Repeat 15x) If you a light skin bitch that think you the poo poo, I could buy you ho cause bitch I'm rich. I see, Broke rear end hoes (Repeat 4x) If you a light skin bitch that think you the poo poo, I could buy you ho cause bitch I'm rich. I see, Broke rear end hoes (Repeat 4x) Hoes (Repeat 15x) If you a freaky dancing ho keep shaking that poo poo, Let's see how good you shake it on top of my dick. And you'll say, Assault I'm cumming (Repeat 4x) If you a freaky dancing ho keep shaking that poo poo, Let's see how good you shake it on top of my dick. And you'll say, Assault I'm cumming (Repeat 4x) Cumming (Repeat 15x) Stinking rear end bitches that need to wash up, Don't get mad if I don't want to gently caress. You need, Soap and water (Repeat 4x) Stinking rear end bitches that need to wash up, Don't get mad if I don't want to gently caress. You need, Soap and water (Repeat 4x) Water (Repeat 15x) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 2, 2016 02:23
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I just read an alternate timeline somewhere in which a Russian-Estonian bar-room brawl started WW3 between NATO and Russia and the majority of the urban western world went up in smoke. Next loving year. In the utmost of seriousness, do I need to prepare for WW3 or other paranoid-filled poo poo? Or am I taking such a scenario too seriously? I secretly have the feeling that Putin would never try to pull this poo poo. But the feeling of doom is nagging me.
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Apr 2, 2016 05:17
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Grouchio posted:I just read an alternate timeline somewhere in which a Russian-Estonian bar-room brawl started WW3 between NATO and Russia and the majority of the urban western world went up in smoke. Next loving year. No that's pure clancytown. MAD ensures no one presses the button, on purpose anyways. We've come really loving close from false alarms and technical fucks ups though! Not sure if that helps you sleep better.
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Apr 2, 2016 05:37
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Turkey, a NATO country, intentionally attacked and destroyed a Russian military plane and WW3 did not happen. hth
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Apr 2, 2016 06:43
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Grouchio posted:I just read an alternate timeline somewhere in which a Russian-Estonian bar-room brawl started WW3 between NATO and Russia and the majority of the urban western world went up in smoke. Next loving year. "Winter-safe Deterrence: The Risk of Nuclear Winter and Its Challenge to Deterrence" (2015) posted:A larger nuclear exchange involving American and Russian arsenals would cause further disruption. An exchange of about 1,200 weapons could produce about 50 teragrams of smoke, causing temperatures to fall by about 4°C. For 4,000 weapons around what New START prescribes there could be 150 teragrams of smoke, with a temperature fall of about 8°C. Agriculture failure would be so severe and widespread that it becomes easier to count the survivors than the fatalities. Climate scientist Alan Robock, who has led many of the recent nuclear winter studies, expects some survivors especially in Australia and New Zealand. While this is hardly a cheerful evaluation, even this may be too optimistic. Hopefully some people somewhere would find some way to survive. But the conditions would be harsh enough that survival is no guarantee. 
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Apr 2, 2016 07:35
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http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/04/02/world/europe/ap-eu-armenia-azerbaijan.html Time for a Putin/Erdogan proxy war in the Karabakh?
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Apr 2, 2016 09:05
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Please stand firm against the Counter-Reformation. It has more to do with the fact that the Czech Lutherans were quite happy to dissolve the Kingdom of Bohemia during the 30y war and divide it among Protestant kingdoms, the post-Hussite utraquists actually sided with the Catholics because they shared virtually nothing with the German Protestants, and were actually stabbed in the back by them (repeatedly), there were many Czechs who never left the Catholic side and were overlooked by history, Moravia was always firmly Catholic, and the greatest figures of national restoration were Jesuits. So the Catholics had the counter intuitive dual role of both being the enforcers of the Austrian absolutism and centralization (though the Habsburgs never wanted to fully suppress Bohemia as a political unit, since the legitimacy of the Austrian branch within the HRE stemmed from holding the title of the first elector, bestowed upon the king of Bohemia), as well as working towards restoring and maintaining a Czech national identity, meanwhile Catholic Czech aristocracy played an important role in Imperial administration and Viennese court politics instead of being silenced.
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Apr 2, 2016 12:37
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Turkey, a NATO country, intentionally attacked and destroyed a Russian military plane and WW3 did not happen. hth More importantly, the USSR, which actually held the pretext of wanting to defeat the capitalist world, collapsed while fighting American-paid insurgents in Afghanistan without resorting to nuclear weapons as the last means of tipping the global balance to their favour. If the actual global empire went through a period of literally struggling to stay alive in a competition against its ideological opponent without using its nuclear arsenal, why should a petty dictator use it for some nebulous goals.
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Apr 2, 2016 12:44
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This is probably the best place to ask: what's the background of Czech Republic being mostly atheist/undeclared? The country was dominated by Christianity until at least the first half of the 20th century just like Poland and then...what happened exactly? Furthermore from 1991 to 2011 Roman Catholicism decreased from 39.0% to 10.3% which is once again quite a rapid change.
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Apr 2, 2016 12:56
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The Soviets were quite keen of the repression of religion.
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Apr 2, 2016 14:11
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Poland was also under the Soviets for the same amount of time, my question is what went differently.
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Apr 2, 2016 14:16
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Doctor Malaver posted:That's not the first time. They charged Croatian general Gotovina for crimes that happened when Croatia liberated "Krajina" and they acquitted him. Which is good because he was the wrong guy accused of the wrong crime with wrong evidence... but they should've instead charged the right people and give them proper sentences. So another fuckup by prosecution. Now, it might be just the short length of your post that's causing this, or maybe I'm just too cynical, and am mistaking your post for trying to take my attempt at taking a non-Serbian point of view into account and make it some sort of "Serbian view" to be pushed towards the "middle" point of view, but just tell me one thing: Are you making an equivalence between an ethnic cleansing of a quarter million people comitted by Croatian forces during the destruction of Krajina, and the responsibility of the army and the state that did it, and the crimes of a lunatic who tried to exploit the atmosphere of despair when those quarter million suddenly homeless people arrived to Serbia? A lunatic who, might I add, barring a very small (but still unfortunate) number of victims, failed in his intent? Because I will fully back down on the part of my post regarding my anger at eelj's speeches stating his intentions, which didn't actually lead to what he was suggesting, if it's giving people in this thread a way to take it as the above. my dad fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 14:17
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I don't know about religious policies in Communist Poland - were their show trials against the church and priests? What level of control over the Church was there? In Czechoslovakia all priests and religious organizations were subject to state approval and control, there was essentially no way for them to maintain a dialogue between the Church and the public without losing their "accreditation" and funding. The Church was effectively limited to serving the existing population of church-going believers with no way of proselytizing among the non-going and the non-religious (and I'm not talking about aggressive preaching to the public, I'm just talking about the local priest being able to engage his parishioners in any way that would be common in a civil society, or e.g. a priest leading a pilgrimage or another religious festival of parishioners was not allowed to perform a mass to them). Meanwhile the state actively discouraged people from going to church, bullied priests and in the 1950s led trials against activist church members for deceiving the public or undermining the state.
steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 14:23
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Communists unironically had some good ideas.
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Apr 2, 2016 14:56
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Now that I'm reading about it, it seems like a pretty complex issue but one of the factors is definitely that Communist Poland wasn't as repressive towards religion so it was able to grow into a backbone for later opposition.
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Apr 2, 2016 14:56
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Another big part of the the secularization of what's now the Czech Rep was also historical whitewash. A lot of thinkers and artists regarded the Hussite revolution in 15th century as a high point in history. Now, this suited not just the communists (praising the anti-religious sentiment and quietly ignoring the entire point of the thing) but also the anti-Nazi dissidents before them (Slavic versus Germanic, this angle was also present for the good part of the Austria/Hungary period for obvious reasons) and even the founders of Czechoslovakia (which was very much Masaryk's child and that man, while deeply believing, didn't want to have anything to do with the Church). So you get people being repeatedly told that the Church is monarchic, germanic, dogmatic, ripping off the poor, controlling the rich and all the time trampling on the little Czech guy because way, way before in history he kicked its rear end (CZECHIA STRONK - gently caress off, I'm Czech, I can say that - the idea is that there's this idealized history in which the world is trembling in fear of us as opposed to not giving a gently caress as usual). There's been some form of anti-catholic thought present in just about any movement that participated in shaping the Czech culture in more than a hundred years.
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Apr 2, 2016 15:37
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my dad posted:Now, it might be just the short length of your post that's causing this, or maybe I'm just too cynical, and am mistaking your post for trying to take my attempt at taking a non-Serbian point of view into account and make it some sort of "Serbian view" to be pushed towards the "middle" point of view, but just tell me one thing: I don't agree with your depiction of liberation/destruction of Krajina but I won't be dragged into a discussion about it. Me and you wouldn't benefit from it and the rest of the thread wouldn't care.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:16
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Palpek posted:How exactly are they planning to track if somebody is going to have a same sex marriage? Christian Gaydar.
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Apr 2, 2016 17:23
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While we're on the subject of Czech's and religion, is their practice of turning Easter into a surreal public spanking festival observed anywhere outside of the former Czechoslovakia?
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Apr 2, 2016 18:03
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Palpek posted:Now that I'm reading about it, it seems like a pretty complex issue but one of the factors is definitely that Communist Poland wasn't as repressive towards religion so it was able to grow into a backbone for later opposition. I definitely wouldn't say it wasn't as repressive. The problem is, for all the show trials, arrests, bans on building churches, beatings, occasional murders and attempts at breaking up the unity of the Church it represented too large a segment of the society for such suppression to effectively work, especially after destalinization comes into play and just straight up show trial and murder is no longer the default option. Then 1966 and 1978 came around and the government lost the war on religion right there.
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Apr 2, 2016 19:31
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Gobbeldygook posted:While we're on the subject of Czech's and religion, is their practice of turning Easter into a surreal public spanking festival observed anywhere outside of the former Czechoslovakia? You mean spanking ad watersports. It's also practised in some parts of Poland and Northern Hungary, allegedly.
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Apr 2, 2016 19:31
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18 Armenian and 12 Azeri soldiers have been killed in the worst fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh in decades: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35949991
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Apr 2, 2016 20:00
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Pierogi posted:Communists unironically had some good ideas. Yes it's a good idea to bully people for their beliefs. You know I think Iran has a good way to run itself.
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Apr 2, 2016 20:51
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Just posting so this doesn't go unappreciated, thank you brother.   
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Apr 2, 2016 21:06
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:18 Armenian and 12 Azeri soldiers have been killed in the worst fighting in Nagorno-Karabakh in decades: well, this could get bad.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:24
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Crowsbeak posted:Yes it's a good idea to bully people for their beliefs. You know I think Iran has a good way to run itself. Yeah, Church bullied and forced people into their beliefs for hundreds of years then got a taste of their own medicine via some incredibly minor repression and rules that paled in comparison to how the existing centuries of religious brainwashing and social control were brutally forced and held in place. I'd say the lack of czech religiousness is maybe the one good outcome from the whole stupid soviet union. I wonder how much less hosed polish politics would be today if the catholic church had little to no influence in the country.
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Apr 2, 2016 21:26
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